The EtherREGEN thread for various network, cable, power experiences and experiments

[mfaoro]

I'll admit to being a little fuzzy on the idea of the 'moat' and specifically about 'shorting the moat.'

 

I have two Paul Hynes SR7t two-rail LPS powering my back end music system. See quick diagram below:

 

 

The black squares are my components. The red brackets are the two LPS and the components they power.

 

 

Am I shorting the moat?

 

Michael

[LowMidHigh]

44 minutes ago, mfaoro said:

I'll admit to being a little fuzzy on the idea of the 'moat' and specifically about 'shorting the moat.'

 

I have two Paul Hynes SR7t two-rail LPS powering my back end music system. See quick diagram below:

 

 

The black squares are my components. The red brackets are the two LPS and the components they power.

 

 

Am I shorting the moat?

 

Michael

 

You're fine. To short the moat, the LPS powering the ER should run the device on the B side (the Linn in your case).

[mfaoro]

Just now, LowMidHigh said:

 

You're fine. To short the moat, the LPS powering the ER should run the device on the B side (the Linn in your case).

Thanks LowMidHigh. Your example is perfect. 

[R1200CL]

12 hours ago, LowMidHigh said:

 

You're fine. To short the moat, the LPS powering the ER should run the device on the B side (the Linn in your case).

I disagree.

The clock goes to B side. The clock cable is a potential source for unwanted loops. 
 

However, there is no guarantee that adding a extra power (opticalModule)will raise the SQ.

Maybe adding the opticalModule to same SR7T is an option, as the fiber into EtherRegen isolates. 

[mfaoro]

32 minutes ago, R1200CL said:

I disagree.

The clock goes to B side. The clock cable is a potential source for unwanted loops. 
 

However, there is no guarantee that adding a extra power (opticalModule)will raise the SQ.

Maybe adding the opticalModule to same SR7T is an option, as the fiber into EtherRegen isolates. 

This is why I get confused :).

 

You are suggesting I put the Nucleus and the OpticalModule on the same SR7?

 

[JohnSwenson]

2 hours ago, mfaoro said:

This is why I get confused :).

 

You are suggesting I put the Nucleus and the OpticalModule on the same SR7?

 

Remember the clock input is on the B side, the power input is on the A side. So powering a clock and a device on the A side from the same supply  shorts the moat. Unless what you are powering on the A side uses fiber to get to the ER.

 

So powering the ER and the Nucleus from the same supply shorts the moat. Powering the nucleus and the clock from the same supply is fine since they are both on the B side. Powering the ER and the OM from the same supply is fine, they are both on the A side AND there is optical between them.

 

To make this a little more obvious in your pictures, draw a vertical double line down the middle of the ER, clock connections go on the right(B side) and power connections go on the left(A side). This should make it a little easier to tell what is connected to what.

 

John S.

[mfaoro]

3 hours ago, JohnSwenson said:

Remember the clock input is on the B side, the power input is on the A side. So powering a clock and a device on the A side from the same supply  shorts the moat. Unless what you are powering on the A side uses fiber to get to the ER.

 

So powering the ER and the Nucleus from the same supply shorts the moat. Powering the nucleus and the clock from the same supply is fine since they are both on the B side. Powering the ER and the OM from the same supply is fine, they are both on the A side AND there is optical between them.

 

To make this a little more obvious in your pictures, draw a vertical double line down the middle of the ER, clock connections go on the right(B side) and power connections go on the left(A side). This should make it a little easier to tell what is connected to what.

 

John S.

Thank you John. That’s a perfect explanation. I had somehow missed that that the clock was on Side B.

 

I do really appreciate the thought that went into including the external clock connection. Both because it allows for the possibility of better sound quality -and- because it allows people like me to experiment and enjoy geeking out as part of the hobby.

[Avalfa]

After months of being a PCB with some parts on a piece of plywood, finally found the time to build the PSU with ultra Capacitor boards for the EtherRegen in a nice metal casing. 

I'm confident with it.

[Avalfa]

On 6/26/2021 at 12:46 PM, Avalfa said:

 

And of course a starquad (canare, something (I forgot)speaker)cable used for the DC to the ER, with ground .

[R1200CL]

On 6/26/2021 at 12:46 PM, Avalfa said:

ultra Capacitor boards

Can you tell us more about these boards ?

Maybe start a tread about your built. 
 

Any reason to chose toroidal transformer ?

 

Where did you get the box ?

[Avalfa]

7 minutes ago, R1200CL said:

Can you tell us more about these boards ?

Maybe start a tread about your built. 
 

Any reason to chose toroidal transformer ?

 

Where did you get the box ?

That are a lot of questions 😂.

 

1 it's a IanCanade PSU board which are extended with also Ian Canada UltraCapacitor boards, they produce a very, very nice 5VDC, I put two of them in series for 10V DC.

(Designed originally for  high-end RPI streaming solutions I believe)

A lot of info can be found on audiophonics in France. Or the diyaudio forum.

 

2 toroidal, I couldn't find an R-core with 2x 6V(5A) AC secundair.

 

So this company from Poland I believe, which I visited on "high-end Munich" in 2019  made me a toroidal transformer to my specs.

 

3. Casing is from the same manufacturer as where Uptone orders them I presume, since they have pictures on there website of the jss2 and the Ether Regen. They can  make a lot ( in fact this is the same one as from the jss2 only different dimension), but I'm warning you, if you decide to order just one, made to specs, as I did and send them the CAD drawings... It's not cheap. I just loved the quality and looks, so let this one made to my specs.

It's from Takachi in Japan.

[agladstone]

On 6/26/2021 at 6:46 AM, Avalfa said:

After months of being a PCB with some parts on a piece of plywood, finally found the time to build the PSU with ultra Capacitor boards for the EtherRegen in a nice metal casing. 

I'm confident with it.

Nice work!! Wish I had this level of skills / ability:) 

[goldiver]

Does anyone have a very short connection between router and the EtherRegen's A port - say a  15cm or 20cm ethernet cable? I'm about to experiment by putting my ER in the next room close to my router, and feeding a 2m cable under the door to my streamer on my hi-fi rack. Just wondering if others have tried something similar.

[Pokey77]

3 hours ago, goldiver said:

Does anyone have a very short connection between router and the EtherRegen's A port - say a  15cm or 20cm ethernet cable? I'm about to experiment by putting my ER in the next room close to my router, and feeding a 2m cable under the door to my streamer on my hi-fi rack. Just wondering if others have tried something similar.

I have my ER + LPS in another room about 20' away. It actually sounds slightly better there than next to my Streamer. Tried it both ways and since there was very little difference where it was located, it was better for me that it be in the other room fairly close to the router. Just one man's experience.

[DarqueKnight]

On 6/1/2020 at 4:20 PM, nkbg said:

 

I am using a 7V Farad on the ER.

 

I made a cable using V-Quad Cu21 wire from VH Audio (https://www.vhaudio.com/v-quad.html), Oyaide connector, WBT solder. It did improve everything by a notch - quieter and calmer. Chris at VH is great to deal with as well.

 

 

On 6/2/2020 at 1:13 PM, JohnSwenson said:

This is really good cable, it should make a superb DC cable.

 

John S.

 

I recently used a 3 foot length of V-Quad Cu21 to make a DC cable for the TeraDak DC-150VA linear power supply that feeds the Synology DS718+ NAS in my main stereo system. The total, inclusive of connectors, shrink wrap, and TechFlex Clear Cut nylon sleeving, was $108.

 

Small improvements were heard in the following areas:

 

1. Image weight.

2. Ambient sounds.

3. Bass definition.

4. Bass articulation.

5. Clarity in background percussion instruments.

 

Four more DC cables will be made with V-Quad Cu21 wire:

 

1. For the TeraDak DC-150VA linear power supply that feeds the Synology DS718+ NAS in my office system.

2. For the TeraDak DC-200VA linear power supply that feeds theThe Synology DS918+ Nas in my home theater.

3 and 4. For the two TeraDak DC-50W linear power supplies that feed the EtherREGEN switch and AfterDark Queen clock in my office system.

 

Fun.

 

 

 

Top: Original Vanguard DC cable that came with the TeraDak DC-150VA NAS.

Bottom: New DIY DC cable made with V-Quad Cu21 wire.

 

 

 

 

Well worth the time and money.

[DandyDen]

Anyone have a problem with the EtheRegen losing connection on the B side at least a couple times a day?

I am using the AfterDark Giesmann Clock and Hi-output LPS and never lost connection prior to adding the Clock?

Thanks for any advise

 

[FIndingit]

10 hours ago, DandyDen said:

Anyone have a problem with the EtheRegen losing connection on the B side at least a couple times a day?

I am using the AfterDark Giesmann Clock and Hi-output LPS and never lost connection prior to adding the Clock?

Thanks for any advise

 

It has happened to me but the problem was always the clock cable. 

[DandyDen]

5 hours ago, FIndingit said:

It has happened to me but the problem was always the clock cable. 

Thanks, I think you may be on to something, I’ll do some experimenting with a different clock cable

[Superdad]

21 hours ago, DandyDen said:

I am using the AfterDark Giesmann Clock and Hi-output LPS and never lost connection prior to adding the Clock?

The EtherREGEN is not tolerant of even the slightest glitch (more than about 3µSec) of the external clock.  So if you have no problems when running from its internal reference clock, then your trouble is absolutely from the external clock/cable system.

[DandyDen]

On 7/26/2021 at 6:59 PM, Superdad said:

The EtherREGEN is not tolerant of even the slightest glitch (more than about 3µSec) of the external clock.  So if you have no problems when running from its internal reference clock, then your trouble is absolutely from the external clock/cable system.

Thanks, I think the clock cable is the culprit, however I just made a DC power cable from the Delund Silver foil, in oiled silk dielectric for the LPS that powers the Clock and it hasn’t happened since I installed it, but I still suspect the clock cable…… 

[barbz]

New to ER and have a couple of questions.

 

Is there a "better" voltage to feed the ER with? I'm looking at using a spare 12v feed from an antipodes s60.

 

Also I'm never really happy having warm/hot items hidden away; is there any reason why I couldnt strap 2 heatsinks to the unit (with some form of thermal pad) to help disapate some heat?

 

Thankyou

[MarkusBarkus]

@barbz here are a couple of bits from June from folks that would know, re: heat and voltages. If you search around, you will find folks have applied heatsinks, but it isn't really an issue...I guess unless it might be in a closed, very hot closet, etc. Cheers...

 

6/21:
Since the POWER does not depend on voltage, the CURRENT goes down as the voltage goes up. Getting a supply that can supply all the current needed seems to be far more problematic than getting the higher voltage, so we generally recommend using a higher voltage if you have it available. Not because it is "better" but because you will have a much higher probability your supply will have enough current.

 

John S.

 

 

6/21

VERY abbreviated answer:

Heat is WATTS (or BTUs); 

Voltage * Amperage drawn = Watts

If something (a chip, circuit, lightbulb, part, etc) were to be 100% efficient (and everything is far from that!) then all the Watts would be turned into some form of work and there would be no excess heat dissipated.  But there is no such thing as 100% efficient and just the chips doing their normal work get hot.

 

With regards to power supply voltages:

We use linear regulators (13 expensive state-of-the-art integrated ones: LT3042 and LT3045) right next to all the chips--to provide more than 30 voltage feeds at at least 5 different voltages.  To make that possible, we feed each reg (LDOs is what they are called) just about 0.7V above their target output voltage--because LDOs have to have some drop to regulate.  So for each reg, 0.7 * whatever is the current drawn by the parts they are feeding is wattage of heat that reg needs to dissipate into the board.  

The ONLY way to allow for each of those regs to receive a voltage just above their output setting (which will be 5V, 3.3V, 2.5V, 1.8V, 1.2V, 1.1V) while allowing for a single (external) main input voltage feed is to use pre-regulators, in our case specially chosen, very high-frequency, high-efficiency DC-DC switching regulators surrounded by a carefully tuned filter circuit.  You can actually see a whole bunch of DC-DC pre-reg plus LT3042/45 power network blocks all over the EtherREGEN and in several of John's other designs. The measured performance of these blocks is exceptional.

 

Because of our use of the above, wattage (both consumed and dissipated) is constant--about 9.5W--for an EtherREGEN regardless of the input voltage across its acceptable range of 7~12V.

 

I hope the above makes sense and we can move on from here.

--Alex C.

[PYP]

1 hour ago, barbz said:

Also I'm never really happy having warm/hot items hidden away; is there any reason why I couldnt strap 2 heatsinks to the unit (with some form of thermal pad) to help disapate some heat?

 

Folks have posted their experiments in different threads within the UpTone forum.   You could PM individuals to ask specifics if they aren't listed on the thread.   I use a small PC fan because of the lack of airflow in the cabinet that holds my two eRs + one LPS 1.2, all of which run hot.  

 

The search function is your friend (either by thread or forum-wide).  Searching for "heatsink" in the "EtherREGEN Listening Impressions" thread yielded a few hits, including this one from @scolley:

 

 

My experiences are a bit unique in that I never listened to the EtherREGEN in its stock form. As soon as I got it I hooked it up, I placed one of these heatsinks on top. Waiting 90 minutes before my first listen, I was QUITE pleased with the initial sonic results.

 

After leaving it on and playing quietly for 24 hours, I permanently attached the heatsink with thermal epoxy.

After allowing the unit to quietly burn-in/warm up for a couple more hours, the next listen was a glorious improvement in sonics. Sound stage size, texture, detail and - most important - resolution of the sound-stage. Not to mention just being more “tuneful” and engaging. The improvement was very exciting. I have to underscore the conclusion of @austinpop. This is a bargain. A big one.

 

That said, I found the improvements to be heavily skewed toward high-res tracks. It helps Red Book content a lot, but the improvements in high-res content sonics are much more evident. I suspect the more you’ve invested in your system, the more you need this. One thing I wonder about is why the improvements were audible for me so quickly. Within 90 minutes it was really good. But it was huge after 24 hours. Was it the heatsink? Or were 90 minutes (initially) and 24 hours burn-in time sufficient? Or a combination of both? I wouldn’t know.

 

One thing is certain, I could not be more thrilled with the purchase. 🙂

 

PS - I will mention that based on my brief experiences, independent of obvious your-mileage-may-vary-on-your-network considerations, I would suggest that if you can normally clearly hear the difference between high-res tracks and 44.1/16, then this is a slam dunk. If you can’t though, this may be a tweak that your system may not resolve quite so well.

 

PPS - I hear FAR far greater differences over my speakers than my headphones.  My cans are Oppo PM-3’s with stock cable, amplified by a Mytek Brooklyn Bridge. But that difference may well be due to having invested much, much more in my speakers and speaker amplification, which could be a bit of evidence backing up my conclusions above: the better your system resolves sonics, the better improvements the EtherREGEN can bring.

[DarqueKnight]

7 hours ago, PYP said:

After leaving it on and playing quietly for 24 hours, I permanently attached the heatsink with thermal epoxy.

Which thermal epoxy did you use?

Can it be easily removed?

[PYP]

5 hours ago, DarqueKnight said:

Which thermal epoxy did you use?

Can it be easily removed?

That is a question for @scolley since the quote was from his/her post.