The EtherREGEN thread for various network, cable, power experiences and experiments

[MartinT]

On 5/19/2021 at 6:11 PM, MartinT said:

I have moved to using two DX units between router and ER.  There is some cleaning up of midrange smoothness and even more fluidity in delivery.  I can't detect any loss of dynamics so I don't think there is a downside.

 

Nope. For the second time I've taken them out of circuit. Some of the life was gone from my music. Not exactly dynamics but the DX filters just make it sound flatter. Removing them has restored its sense of life and vibrancy.

 

I'm afraid these are just not working for me. They're staying out.

[Ponkbutler]

8 minutes ago, MartinT said:

 

Nope. For the second time I've taken them out of circuit. Some of the life was gone from my music. Not exactly dynamics but the DX filters just make it sound flatter. Removing them has restored its sense of life and vibrancy.

 

I'm afraid these are just not working for me. They're staying out.

Suspect it’s going to be the same for me 

[PYP]

24 minutes ago, MartinT said:

 

Nope. For the second time I've taken them out of circuit. Some of the life was gone from my music. Not exactly dynamics but the DX filters just make it sound flatter. Removing them has restored its sense of life and vibrancy.

 

I'm afraid these are just not working for me. They're staying out.

Were you using the little patch cables that came with the filters?  As the filters settled in, there was overall flatness as well as hardness at some frequencies.  Replacing the supplied cable that was connected to the opticalModule with a generic cable (plastic connectors) fixed both of those problems.  Lots of depth now and PRAT restored.  

[JohnSwenson]

11 hours ago, Mouna said:

sorry wrong tab....

 

from Cisco to ER B-side via LAN > ER A-side >via fiber > second ER A-side so far the constellationwhich works already fabulous - but making it better is the goal...

to do that I get a double Buffalo 2016 from Adrian, which needs a 1GByte connection to work - when I connect via ER - B side to the buffalo there is only 100Mbs not 1 GB....

If I use the ER A-side will I have 1 GB output - remember I startd with ER B - side (with only 100MBs)

or is it negleciable and the 1GB will travel along with the ER and it only counts that at the end there is ER A-side with 1BG output - or is all lost at the very beginning with ER B-side.

 

If thats the case then no way to make it work as a switch endpoint - then I could only use it after the Cisco switch....any ideas????

The ER B side only runs at 100Mb, the A side ports are fully negotiable to 10/100/1000. There is a switch chip on the A side but not the B side. So you CAN connect at 100 on the B side 1Gb on the A side. The A side port will be transferring data  at 1Gb, but the overall throughput will never be above 100Mb, there is a lot of "dead air" between packets.

 

So you can run the B side at 100M and the A side at 1G.

 

John S.

 

[JohnSwenson]

16 hours ago, Rsbrsvp said:

I have two more DX's arriving any day.  I am planning to place them between my NAS and side A of the ER as I have my first pair- like you between router and OM.

 

But my second ER should be arriving soon and I am curious to try the DX between the two ER's as well.

 

I am not technically minded AT ALL but perhaps someone can explain to me why the DX on side B is not recommended.  Why does it matter if it removes the noise before or after the ER does it's work???   I thought it is removing a different type of noise than the ER anyway.

Note I have NOT tested the DX. With the Baaske the signal integrity is significantly degraded which can cause significantly increased jitter in a receiver.

 

I have no idea how the DX affects signal integrity so I can't make a proper recommendation. The don't use on the B side was for the Baaske and a few other that behaved the same.

 

John S.

[agladstone]

10 minutes ago, JohnSwenson said:

Note I have NOT tested the DX. With the Baaske the signal integrity is significantly degraded which can cause significantly increased jitter in a receiver.

 

I have no idea how the DX affects signal integrity so I can't make a proper recommendation. The don't use on the B side was for the Baaske and a few other that behaved the same.

 

John S.

Out of curiosity, I have removed the Baaske from my audio chain shortly after I purchased the ER and after your comments on what it does, etc. 
However, since I actually have 3 of them, I decided to put one between my Router and my Apple TV 4K. 

I’ve been noticing a blurry ish picture (really more like what I would describe as “video noise”), do you think it’s possible the culprit could be the Baaske? 
* Sorry for a question in the thread that’s not actually related to the EtherRegen!! 

[agladstone]

7 hours ago, Rsbrsvp said:

I cannot believe I missed this- but I am kind of absent minded.

 

I just looked at the back of my router and it has an optical output.  

 

Now, for those with experience, do I ditch my OM and just do direct from the router or because the OM has a linear PS, perhaps it is better to continue with router (with cheap wall wart PS) to OM by way of RJ45 and then OM to ER by optical?  

 

Ironically, with all the buzz about the DX, if I go the direction of router to ER by way of the optical, the DX is out...

 

I would appreciate some advice.

You could also always do what I have a long time ago for a significant gain,, if you were to omit the OM from the chain, just get a Linear power supply for your router / switch :) 

Even if you keep the OM in the chain, I basically guarantee you will still have a nice bump in SQ by swapping the wall wart SMPS on your router / switch with a LPSU. 
I just use a preowned HDPLEX for my router/switch and my modem that I bought for about $300, that seems to give me a huge benefit vs using the SMPS wall warts for both. 
One of these days I’ll probably pick up a 3rd JS-2 for them, I’m sure that will be even better. 

[skatbelt]

4 hours ago, MartinT said:

 

Nope. For the second time I've taken them out of circuit. Some of the life was gone from my music. Not exactly dynamics but the DX filters just make it sound flatter. Removing them has restored its sense of life and vibrancy.

 

I'm afraid these are just not working for me. They're staying out.

 

Exactly my findings. I removed them and the musicality and emotion is back. May be I am going to try them in another position later on.

 

@PYP, replacing the supplied shorts cables with short CAT6 UTP cables did make a difference, but not satisfying as well.

[Johnnydev]

8 hours ago, agladstone said:

You could also always do what I have a long time ago for a significant gain,, if you were to omit the OM from the chain, just get a Linear power supply for your router / switch :) 

Even if you keep the OM in the chain, I basically guarantee you will still have a nice bump in SQ by swapping the wall wart SMPS on your router / switch with a LPSU. 
I just use a preowned HDPLEX for my router/switch and my modem that I bought for about $300, that seems to give me a huge benefit vs using the SMPS wall warts for both. 
One of these days I’ll probably pick up a 3rd JS-2 for them, I’m sure that will be even better. 

I think you've got the real punch line.

 

An installation with on modem and or router etc. an SMPS, could benefits from the DX. If everything is connected to good LPS then the DXs in the line can give a lesser SQ.
 

I have 4x Farad Super3 and 1x uptone LPS 1.2 from cable modem, router, 2x EtherRegen and after dark clock and removing the DXs gives in this case an improvement in SQ.

[Johnnydev]

Who in europa wants to buy them

[simon_pepper]

Me, just send you a DM

[One and a half]

1 hour ago, Johnnydev said:

I think you've got the real punch line.

 

An installation with on modem and or router etc. an SMPS, could benefits from the DX. If everything is connected to good LPS then the DXs in the line can give a lesser SQ.
 

I have 4x Farad Super3 and 1x uptone LPS 1.2 from cable modem, router, 2x EtherRegen and after dark clock and removing the DXs gives in this case an improvement in SQ.

I think the DX are still doing the job. Hark back to days of USB where 'life' and 'bright' are due to noise on the USB, like a lift but masking details.. The IT equipment will still give out noise, no matter how good the LPS you can throw at it, they just generate the junk, excellent at it.

[Mouna]

12 hours ago, JohnSwenson said:

The ER B side only runs at 100Mb, the A side ports are fully negotiable to 10/100/1000. There is a switch chip on the A side but not the B side. So you CAN connect at 100 on the B side 1Gb on the A side. The A side port will be transferring data  at 1Gb, but the overall throughput will never be above 100Mb, there is a lot of "dead air" between packets.

 

So you can run the B side at 100M and the A side at 1G.

 

John S.

 

Thank you John,

do I understand it right 1GB on the A side but at the end there will be only 100Mb coming out even when the A side of 2nd ER connected via fiber to the 1st ER and LAN from A 2nd ER going to whatever after???

 

Because of dead packets?

What would be the use of the 1GB then?

 

By the way - the ER is fantastic and the second added a lot of more allover!

Great  - thanks!!!!!

 

[LewinskiH01]

14 hours ago, JohnSwenson said:

The ER B side only runs at 100Mb, the A side ports are fully negotiable to 10/100/1000. There is a switch chip on the A side but not the B side. So you CAN connect at 100 on the B side 1Gb on the A side. The A side port will be transferring data  at 1Gb, but the overall throughput will never be above 100Mb, there is a lot of "dead air" between packets.

 

So you can run the B side at 100M and the A side at 1G.

 

John S.

 

Since we have touched on the 1Gb vs 100Mb topic, I wanted to ask for opinions of a setup I've been chewing on: I do 4-way active stereo, so 8 channels, digital crossovers. I have my eye on Merging Hapi, that is well known for sound, especially over DSD, and uses Ravenna. I found one person using Hapi and eR, who confirmed Hapi wouldn't run out of eR B-side - no surprise. He used two ports on the A-side, which obviously isn't best.

 

1) Does anybody have an educated guess if this would work: have eR1 receive on A-side, output through B-side connecting to eR2 A-side where Hapi will also connect. So Hapi would see a 1Gb connection, but there will be a 100Mb bottleneck on the B-side of eR1. Moat of eR2 would be leveraged, unfortunately.

 

2) I'm thinking 8-channel DSD might be too much for 100Mb bottleneck. Maybe get 2-channel PCM streamed through eR and into an AudioPC with HQPlayer to do the convolution and upsampling to DSD and have a direct ethernet connection to Hapi?

[Rsbrsvp]

8 hours ago, One and a half said:

I think the DX are still doing the job. Hark back to days of USB where 'life' and 'bright' are due to noise on the USB, like a lift but masking details.. The IT equipment will still give out noise, no matter how good the LPS you can throw at it, they just generate the junk, excellent at it.

I agree with this.  One could interpret the DX as making the sound "sterile"- but one needs to give time for the ears to adjust.  It is the result of noise removal IMHO.  Yes, removing noise often sounds somewhat "sterile" or "flat" at first because we are used to what noise sounds like.

 

 

I remember when I got my OXCO, I had a very similar reaction. "Wow- this is clean". but it is "sterile".  Well,  I got used to it.  Now I cannot go back.

 

Once I told a fellow that I buy cold cuts without preservatives and he told me "I love the taste of preservatives".  Why would I buy meat without preservatives, it tastes to bland.???

 

True, at the end of the day, if we like preservatives, well- we like them.  But I do believe that this is what is happening.  I could be oversimplifying, so all this is IMHO.

[Mouna]

15 minutes ago, Rsbrsvp said:

I agree with this.  One could interpret the DX as making the sound "sterile"- but one needs to give time for the ears to adjust.  It is the result of noise removal IMHO.  Yes, removing noise often sounds somewhat "sterile" or "flat" at first because we are used to what noise sounds like.

 

 

I remember when I got my OXCO, I had a very similar reaction. "Wow- this is clean". but it is "sterile".  Well,  I got used to it.  Now I cannot go back.

 

Once I told a fellow that I buy cold cuts without preservatives and he told me "I love the taste of preservatives".  Why would I buy meat without preservatives, it tastes to bland.???

 

True, at the end of the day, if we like preservatives, well- we like them.  But I do believe that this is what is happening.  I could be oversimplifying, so all this is IMHO.

sounds very plausible...

and is also my experience - since I get my system more and more clean I have inbetween to get used to the naked sound which after a while is experienced as more true und right there - whilst before I always tried for a nice comforting sound  which wasn't it....

[Rsbrsvp]

No one can force anyone to like or dislike a sound that one's ears like or dislike.

 

All of this is experimentation.

 

What one person calls "full sounding" another says is "veiled".  

What one person calls "analogue", another person calls "colored".

 

Over the last few years my goal has been to go in the direction of complete "nakedness".  I decided for some reason that this is what my ears and heart want.   The DX makes things more "naked" so it supports my objective.  I totally respect those who have a different objective or who feel that some components while contributing to "nakedness" are unpleasant sounding, or "lifeless".

[JohnSwenson]

7 hours ago, Mouna said:

Thank you John,

do I understand it right 1GB on the A side but at the end there will be only 100Mb coming out even when the A side of 2nd ER connected via fiber to the 1st ER and LAN from A 2nd ER going to whatever after???

 

Because of dead packets?

What would be the use of the 1GB then?

 

By the way - the ER is fantastic and the second added a lot of more allover!

Great  - thanks!!!!!

 

Think of it this way:

 

data is put in the trunk of cars, the road on the B side has a speed limit of 10MPH, but the roads on the A side are 100MPH.

The overall rate at which data comes in on the B side is limited by its slow speed. When it gets to the A side it can go much faster, but the overall payload rate is determined by the slower speed on the B side. Cars going from one A port to another can go at 100MPH. 

 

On the A side the cars go at 100MPH, when the cars come from the B side there will be a much longer time in-between cars than a 100MPH road can support. Sorry about the "dead air", that is a term from long ago when a radio station was not transmitting anything, (like a DJ falling asleep) referred to as dead air. A car comes in at 10MPH, then speed out at 100MPH, but then there is a long wait while before the next car comes in on the 10MPH road.

 

Going the other way (A to B) cars come in at 100MPH and go into a parking lot (called a buffer), and then go out the 10MPH road. If too many cars come in at 100MPH all one right after another, eventually the parking lot fills up and traffic jams happen. Cars can come in right after another, but only so many at a time, then there has to be a long wait without any cars so the parking lot can empty. This is usually fine as long as the original source of the cars is sending then at slow enough rate. Like say 10 cars get their trunks packed at the same time, they all speed out over the 100MPH road, but then the next 10 cars have to be packed up, then they also speed out. There is a long space of time with no cars on the road.

 

I hope this makes sense.

 

John S.

[JohnSwenson]

6 hours ago, LewinskiH01 said:

Since we have touched on the 1Gb vs 100Mb topic, I wanted to ask for opinions of a setup I've been chewing on: I do 4-way active stereo, so 8 channels, digital crossovers. I have my eye on Merging Hapi, that is well known for sound, especially over DSD, and uses Ravenna. I found one person using Hapi and eR, who confirmed Hapi wouldn't run out of eR B-side - no surprise. He used two ports on the A-side, which obviously isn't best.

 

1) Does anybody have an educated guess if this would work: have eR1 receive on A-side, output through B-side connecting to eR2 A-side where Hapi will also connect. So Hapi would see a 1Gb connection, but there will be a 100Mb bottleneck on the B-side of eR1. Moat of eR2 would be leveraged, unfortunately.

 

2) I'm thinking 8-channel DSD might be too much for 100Mb bottleneck. Maybe get 2-channel PCM streamed through eR and into an AudioPC with HQPlayer to do the convolution and upsampling to DSD and have a direct ethernet connection to Hapi?

Well that depends on how fast your DSD is. Two channels of DSD 512 is about 24Mbps, 4 of those (8 channels) is really pushing what a 100Mbps link can do, it probably would not work.

 

John S.

[LewinskiH01]

1 hour ago, JohnSwenson said:

Well that depends on how fast your DSD is. Two channels of DSD 512 is about 24Mbps, 4 of those (8 channels) is really pushing what a 100Mbps link can do, it probably would not work.

 

John S.

Thank you John! By "fast" you mean DSD 512 or 256, etc, right? Would DSD 256 be 12Mbps, so 4 would be about 48Mbps and maybe enough for B-side?

 

[JohnSwenson]

1 hour ago, LewinskiH01 said:

Thank you John! By "fast" you mean DSD 512 or 256, etc, right? Would DSD 256 be 12Mbps, so 4 would be about 48Mbps and maybe enough for B-side?

 

Yes that is correct.

 

John S.

[MartinT]

13 hours ago, One and a half said:

Hark back to days of USB where 'life' and 'bright' are due to noise on the USB, like a lift but masking details.

 

It isn't that - I checked carefully by playing some very low level detail songs, for instance the opening to Ry Cooder's Why Don't You Try Me.  There are all manner of cymbal shimmers and taps going on there so I know that low level details are coming through fine without the DXEs in place.  In fact, they're better.

 

It's simply that I've paid a lot of attention to mains regeneration, grounding, cables and support isolation.  In my system, the DXEs don't help.  I can fully understand that in others they work well.

[roman410]

4 hours ago, Rsbrsvp said:

 

The DX makes things more "naked" 

 

I fully agree with you. But I want add one more word"right".

 

My music enjoyment with DX filters it is similar to " late night music listening experience" when music for some reasons sound so"right".

 

 

[PYP]

27 minutes ago, MartinT said:

It's simply that I've paid a lot of attention to mains regeneration, grounding, cables and support isolation.  In my system, the DXEs don't help.  I can fully understand that in others they work well.

I don't doubt your findings, but it is interesting that the DXEs do more than "don't help" a  well manicured network.  In your case (and, it seems, in several other setups as reported on this thread) they harm the sound.   

[jamesg11]

1 hour ago, MartinT said:

 

It isn't that - I checked carefully by playing some very low level detail songs, for instance the opening to Ry Cooder's Why Don't You Try Me.  There are all manner of cymbal shimmers and taps going on there so I know that low level details are coming through fine without the DXEs in place.  In fact, they're better.

 

It's simply that I've paid a lot of attention to mains regeneration, grounding, cables and support isolation.  In my system, the DXEs don't help.  I can fully understand that in others they work well.

Any chance for you the DXEs might have benefit immediately downstream of the modem, before your player?

 

Say, in my situation, where I’m still fully on long-ish ethernet runs from modem to M1 macmini ...? Then leave the ER etc to do their job downstream of said M1 player.