The EtherREGEN thread for various network, cable, power experiences and experiments

[Johnnydev]

Try the afterdark contsallation ethernetcable. He is great from the beginning

[sbilotta]

could you describe how it is better than the Sablon ethernet?

this result is rather surprising

[Rsbrsvp]

22 minutes ago, sbilotta said:

could you describe how it is better than the Sablon ethernet?

this result is rather surprising

Yes I can.

 

To my ears and after careful analysis, the sablon cable is noticeably colored.  It is a sweet smooth coloring and a very beautiful coloring, but nevertheless clearly a coloring.  For those who enjoy this sweet and pleasant coloration,- any many will- the sablon is a great choice.

 

However, if your looking for a disappearing act, than the sablon ethernet cable is NOT the correct choice.  Even my $10 blue jeans is more "true to the source"; more transparent.  The ghentaudio is the most transparent and "naked of the three by a good amount and is also fuller sounding than the BJC.  If you want "naked" the ghent is stunning.  If you want smooth analogue sweetness, the sablon should be seriously considered.  

 

By the way- I have nothing against sablon.  Marc is a great guy and I bought two 2020 USB cables from him which are absolutely the most transparent usb cables I ever heard.  They are stunning and my clear reference.  I do not know why he went in the "coloration" direction with the ethernet cable- but I know many many people like it.  For me however, the smooth delivery covered up to much detail...

 

As always, I need to make a disclaimer that my ears are not yours.  I am confident of what I am hearing, but you may not hear the same....

[Ponkbutler]

6 minutes ago, Rsbrsvp said:

For me however, the smooth delivery covered up to much detail...

That’s exactly what I found with his previous Ethernet cable, especially where textural detail of classical instruments was concerned 

[Rsbrsvp]

1 minute ago, Ponkbutler said:

That’s exactly what I found with his previous Ethernet cable, especially where textural detail of classical instruments was concerned 

Yeah.   It is a pity to spend so much on these linear power sources, ER's, DX's, fanless PC's, all to remove noise to get maximum transparency and micro-detail and to then color it up...

 

But again, to each his own...

[Iving]

My atypical system is offline PC > ER > DDC > DAC.

I had AQ Cinnamons either Side of the ER.

I upgraded ER A Side to a 2020 Sablon. Multiple simultaneous changes so cannot compare directly. But I am very happy with the Sablon. I am confident it is significantly better than the AQ, and presented only positive SQ advantages. No drawback. I am not hearing "coloration" or masking of any kind. If it's there I don't mind it!

Later (having bought an AD clock) I upgraded the ER B Side to an AfterDark Constellation. Again multiple simultaneous changes but the Constellation better than the AQ to my ears during analytics [see links below]. I was thinking I would get another Sablon if the Constellation was weak. But no need. imo the AfterDark Constellation cable is punching way above its price weight.

Reminder that the AfterDark cable is for B Side only/4 wires/100 mbps. Has ground wire option too. Works for me.

May be better reading whatsbest for an impression of the Sablon. Don't know what can be found on using the Sablon ER B Side. I haven't done an "all other things equal" comparison of Sablon/AD Constellation on the ER B Side. Not sure I've read one anywhere.

Detailed reports on my own system upgrades are in the AfterDark Mutec thread.

 

[Rsbrsvp]

I totally respect ALL interpretations of the sablon being colored or not being colored.  You own your ears....

[Iving]

Anyway - Perhaps we "audiophools" don't appreciate that "all ethernet cables sound the same". Researching remote control options, this morning I came across this video. Watch it to the end if you can. The "PPI" is hilarious!!!

 

 

[Rsbrsvp]

18 minutes ago, Iving said:

Anyway - Perhaps we "audiophools" don't appreciate that "all ethernet cables sound the same". Researching remote control options, this morning I came across this video. Watch it to the end if you can. The "PPI" is hilarious!!!

 

 

I cant tell you how many I tested back and forth between cables of all types to confirm which I liked better and then a few months later tried again and changed my mind.  Could be to other system changes; could be my perspective changed.  Could be my analysis is not exacting enough.  Could be my mind is playing tricks on me., could be there is no difference.   The list goes on....

 

That's why before selling a cable or component that I have compared to another one which "I think" I prefer, I always wait a month or two to retest and confirm my previous conclusions.  That is what I did with the Sablon ethernet cable;  but who knows- perhaps I would change my mind if I tried again.

[R1200CL]

On 5/17/2021 at 7:40 PM, Rsbrsvp said:

Uptone should include a pair of DX's with the ER purchase.

….or just implement Halo FastJacks 😀

 

[PYP]

4 hours ago, Rsbrsvp said:

I cant tell you how many I tested back and forth between cables of all types to confirm which I liked better and then a few months later tried again and changed my mind.  Could be to other system changes; could be my perspective changed.  Could be my analysis is not exacting enough.  Could be my mind is playing tricks on me., could be there is no difference.   The list goes on....

 

That's why before selling a cable or component that I have compared to another one which "I think" I prefer, I always wait a month or two to retest and confirm my previous conclusions.  That is what I did with the Sablon ethernet cable;  but who knows- perhaps I would change my mind if I tried again.

This is familiar.  That is why I think the first step in a comparison is to power cycle a few components and unplug and re-seat a few cables and then listen for a day.  It may be that you only need to power cycle one component and only for a few moments, which makes me wonder why the sound changes.   Since it is so dry where I live, I have theorized that there is static buildup.  At any rate, it seems that changing weather (temperature/humidity), age of the component (was it added within the last month?), mood, etc. affect listening impressions.  I tend to value consistent performance/sound.  Maybe it is better/more realistic to realize that the setup is always changing.  

[magnuska]

10 hours ago, Rsbrsvp said:

Yes I can.

 

To my ears and after careful analysis, the sablon cable is noticeably colored.  It is a sweet smooth coloring and a very beautiful coloring, but nevertheless clearly a coloring.  For those who enjoy this sweet and pleasant coloration,- any many will- the sablon is a great choice.

 

However, if your looking for a disappearing act, than the sablon ethernet cable is NOT the correct choice.  Even my $10 blue jeans is more "true to the source"; more transparent.  The ghentaudio is the most transparent and "naked of the three by a good amount and is also fuller sounding than the BJC.  If you want "naked" the ghent is stunning.  If you want smooth analogue sweetness, the sablon should be seriously considered.  

 

By the way- I have nothing against sablon.  Marc is a great guy and I bought two 2020 USB cables from him which are absolutely the most transparent usb cables I ever heard.  They are stunning and my clear reference.  I do not know why he went in the "coloration" direction with the ethernet cable- but I know many many people like it.  For me however, the smooth delivery covered up to much detail...

 

As always, I need to make a disclaimer that my ears are not yours.  I am confident of what I am hearing, but you may not hear the same....

I have also tried Ghent cable with sablon 2020 ethernetcable. I found the opposite. The Sablon cable is more dynamic and extended in both low and high frequences. This could be perceived as coloration by you?

  I have Sablon both on the A-side and B-side and I hear an SQ improvement on A-side too.

I will soon receive the DX filters wich I intend to use inserted on the A-side between router and ER.

[Rsbrsvp]

16 minutes ago, magnuska said:

I have also tried Ghent cable with sablon 2020 ethernetcable. I found the opposite. The Sablon cable is more dynamic and extended in both low and high frequences. This could be perceived as coloration by you?

  I have Sablon both on the A-side and B-side and I hear an SQ improvement on A-side too.

I will soon receive the DX filters wich I intend to use inserted on the A-side between router and ER.

"Perception" is the key word here. 

 

 Just a few posts before, someone said he perceives almost the exact same issues with the previous sablon ethernet model.

 

In addition, I have read other posts in other forums claiming the sablon is way to smooth so I know I am not alone....  But- you have to be honest about what you hear as well.....    I just love the Ghent.....  Most detail and transparency I have heard yet....  To my ears- way more dynamic than the sablon as well.

 

I guess you and I have a different model of ear.  (ha ha)

[magnuska]

40 minutes ago, Rsbrsvp said:

 

I guess you and I have a different model of ear.  (ha ha)

Ha ha , you would be shocked If you saw my ears....😉

[PYP]

43 minutes ago, Rsbrsvp said:

I guess you and I have a different model of ear.  (ha ha)

yes, well, we all do, as per https://hearinghealthfoundation.org/blogs/ears-the-new-fingerprints:  

"All ears are the same, right? Wrong.

Ears are actually unique to each and every person, so much so that they are comparable in uniqueness to the fingerprint. Research has even suggested that ears may be a more effective identification tool than a fingerprint through the use of a new “image ray transform” technology. This technology shines beams of light on the tubular features of the outer ear, creating an image from the way light reflects off the ear’s curves."  

[LewinskiH01]

For those who tried/preferred Ghent, what's the recommended criteria to choose between ET11 (CAT6a) and ET12 (CAT8)? Other than stiffness of ET12. To use on B-side of eR. Current is generic CAT7, so either should be a significant improvement (at least that is my expectation!).

[LowMidHigh]

40 minutes ago, LewinskiH01 said:

For those who tried/preferred Ghent, what's the recommended criteria to choose between ET11 (CAT6a) and ET12 (CAT8)? Other than stiffness of ET12. To use on B-side of eR. Current is generic CAT7, so either should be a significant improvement (at least that is my expectation!).

 

Objectively, you're unlikely to hear any difference: 

 

 

 

But your perception might tell you otherwise, as Rsbrsvp admits:

 

13 hours ago, Rsbrsvp said:

I cant tell you how many I tested back and forth between cables of all types to confirm which I liked better and then a few months later tried again and changed my mind.  Could be to other system changes; could be my perspective changed.  Could be my analysis is not exacting enough.  Could be my mind is playing tricks on me., could be there is no difference.   The list goes on....

 

That's why before selling a cable or component that I have compared to another one which "I think" I prefer, I always wait a month or two to retest and confirm my previous conclusions.  That is what I did with the Sablon ethernet cable;  but who knows- perhaps I would change my mind if I tried again.

 

IMO, audiophiles suffers from a nervosis in general: "Am I not getting the best out of my system?" Therefore, the quixotic pursuit of highly suspicious cables, racks e.t.c. If you stick to products professionals used, you'll save yourself money and emotional distress. 

 

My system is extremely revealing with an amazing sound (subjective of course). I don't hear any difference from cables with certainly, but I can clearly detect a mix that is not perfect. 

[Mike Rubin]

Since we have gone off into the weeds with the DX Engineering ISO-PLUS filters:  I decided to gamble and ordered a couple of pairs.  (I guess I needed only one pair, but adding the second got me free shipping instead of a hefty handling charge.)

 

They got here quickly, but, when they arrived this afternoon, I realized something: the enclosed literature says, “Works with CAT5, CAT5E, CAT6 and CAT6A cables with RJ45 connectors.”  No mention of CAT 8.

 

I am running CAT 6 between router, NAS, NUC, switches, and wall plate in my living room, but then run Ghent CAT 8 from wall plate to ER side B.  (I connect the ER side A to my Sonore optical renderer using single mode fiber.)

 

I now wonder whether it even makes any sense to put one of my four filters between the wall plate and ER, given that I would like to keep using the Ghent cable, which I have found to be an improvement over the several flavors of CAT 6, 6A, 7 and 8 cables I have tried in that application.

 

The other three filters are connected between router and switch, NUC and switch, and NAS and switch.  I guess there’s no harm in trying the fourth filter between the wall plate and ER, but I suspect that, if the filter were effective in that setting, the instruction sheet would have so stated.

 

If I don’t use the fourth filter in front of CAT 8, I can connect it to a printer or the first FMC in a pair joined by multimode fiber that connects to the ultraRendu in my basement system.  (In that system, the second FMC is connected to the ultraRendu by a Cable Matters CAT 8 cable.)

 

I guess I don’t understand how these little DX Engineering boxes work well enough to make an intelligent decision about where they should be installed.

[roman410]

15 minutes ago, Mike Rubin said:

Since we have gone off into the weeds with the DX Engineering ISO-PLUS filters:  I decided to gamble and ordered a couple of pairs.  (I guess I needed only one pair, but adding the second got me free shipping instead of a hefty handling charge.)

 

They got here quickly, but, when they arrived this afternoon, I realized something: the enclosed literature says, “Works with CAT5, CAT5E, CAT6 and CAT6A cables with RJ45 connectors.”  No mention of CAT 8.

 

I am running CAT 6 between router, NAS, NUC, switches, and wall plate in my living room, but then run Ghent CAT 8 from wall plate to ER side B.  (I connect the ER side A to my Sonore optical renderer using single mode fiber.)

 

I now wonder whether it even makes any sense to put one of my four filters between the wall plate and ER, given that I would like to keep using the Ghent cable, which I have found to be an improvement over the several flavors of CAT 6, 6A, 7 and 8 cables I have tried in that application.

 

The other three filters are connected between router and switch, NUC and switch, and NAS and switch.  I guess there’s no harm in trying the fourth filter between the wall plate and ER, but I suspect that, if the filter were effective in that setting, the instruction sheet would have so stated.

 

If I don’t use the fourth filter in front of CAT 8, I can connect it to a printer or the first FMC in a pair joined by multimode fiber that connects to the ultraRendu in my basement system.  (In that system, the second FMC is connected to the ultraRendu by a Cable Matters CAT 8 cable.)

 

I guess I don’t understand how these little DX Engineering boxes work well enough to make an intelligent decision about where they should be installed.

I do not see nothing, way DX filters will not work with Cat 8 ethernet. They should be installed in pairs each on both sides the wire, with including 6 inch patch cables.

I will try  first only 1 pair to closest point on dirty side of ER, in your case on the end your cat 8 wire right before ER and other one close to last device( switch ?) before ER. This way will clean all your ethernet path including in wall connection.

 

 

[Mike Rubin]

1 minute ago, roman410 said:

I do not see nothing, way DX filters will not work with Cat 8 ethernet. They should be installed in pairs each on both sides the wire, with including 6 inch patch cables.

I will try  first only 1 pair to closest point on dirty side of ER, in your case on the end your cat 8 wire right before ER and other one close to last device( switch ?) before ER. This way will clean all your ethernet path including in wall connection.

 

 

Thanks.  If I understand your post, I could put one filter between the wall plate and Ghent CAT 8 cable and another between the Ghent and the ER.  Is that what you suggested?  

[roman410]

Just now, Mike Rubin said:

Thanks.  If I understand your post, I could put one filter between the wall plate and Ghent CAT 8 cable and another between the Ghent and the ER.  Is that what you suggested?  

No, by the wall plate but closest to last device before ER, in the other room.

In my case I have Buffalo switch last device before my ER, connectected together with 3 ft ethernet.

[Pokey77]

14 hours ago, Iving said:

Anyway - Perhaps we "audiophools" don't appreciate that "all ethernet cables sound the same". Researching remote control options, this morning I came across this video. Watch it to the end if you can. The "PPI" is hilarious!!!

 

 

 

The "PPI" button is indeed hilarious!!!

[roman410]

16 hours ago, Rsbrsvp said:

Yes I can.

 

To my ears and after careful analysis, the sablon cable is noticeably colored.  It is a sweet smooth coloring and a very beautiful coloring, but nevertheless clearly a coloring.  For those who enjoy this sweet and pleasant coloration,- any many will- the sablon is a great choice.

 

However, if your looking for a disappearing act, than the sablon ethernet cable is NOT the correct choice.  Even my $10 blue jeans is more "true to the source"; more transparent.  The ghentaudio is the most transparent and "naked of the three by a good amount and is also fuller sounding than the BJC.  If you want "naked" the ghent is stunning.  If you want smooth analogue sweetness, the sablon should be seriously considered.  

 

By the way- I have nothing against sablon.  Marc is a great guy and I bought two 2020 USB cables from him which are absolutely the most transparent usb cables I ever heard.  They are stunning and my clear reference.  I do not know why he went in the "coloration" direction with the ethernet cable- but I know many many people like it.  For me however, the smooth delivery covered up to much detail...

 

As always, I need to make a disclaimer that my ears are not yours.  I am confident of what I am hearing, but you may not hear the same....

I have similar experience with Sablon S/PDIF digital wire. Found sounding too colored ( sweet ) to my ears, 

On the other side Sablon ethernet it is sounding on neutral side, natural and balanced without flashing any frequencies out. 

[Mike Rubin]

40 minutes ago, roman410 said:

No, by the wall plate but closest to last device before ER, in the other room.

In my case I have Buffalo switch last device before my ER, connectected together with 3 ft ethernet.

Does distance between the devices and the filters matter? In other words, must each filter be near one of the two connected devices or is it enough just to have two filters between them?  I have CAT 6 running from a 48 port switch that is mounted inside a cabinet to a wall plate in my living room. From there, I have the CAT 8 Ghent running to the ER.  The simplest installation would be wall plate > supplied short cable > ISO-PLUS no. 1 > supplied short cable > ISO-PLUS no. 2 > Ghent CAT 8 > ER.  This puts two filters between the switch and the ER, with both on the ER side of the living room wall.  
 

Thanks for your help with this.

[roman410]

   Today I received more DX Engineering ISO-PLUS Ethernet RF Filters. This time installed pair between two Buffalo BS-GS 2016 switches connected together with 1ft Blue Jeans Cat 6a ethernet wire. So far I am using 3 pairs of DX filters, and effect of them it is cumulative and same time addictive too 🙂.