The EtherREGEN thread for various network, cable, power experiences and experiments

[Duckworp]

1 hour ago, GryphonGuy said:

 

No I'm not. I cannot say those words as I have no experience with OM1. I did not find any SQ difference between OM4 and OM5 in the cable itself, just the transceiver wavelength change made a huge difference to both OM4 and OM5 cable. As others have said, there is no such thing as single-mode OM4. OM4 is multi-mode cable.

 

Regards

GG

OK thanks. Could you let me know what transceiver wavelength you found was the best?  

[agladstone]

Any thoughts on why I need to constantly turn off and turn back on (reboot) my eR? 
My Aurender which the eR is feeding tells me there is no IP and I need to reboot the eR almost every listening session to get my Aurender to register an IP address again? 
I leave my eR and Aurender powered on at all times. 
@Superdad 

[One and a half]

1 hour ago, agladstone said:

Any thoughts on why I need to constantly turn off and turn back on (reboot) my eR? 
My Aurender which the eR is feeding tells me there is no IP and I need to reboot the eR almost every listening session to get my Aurender to register an IP address again? 
I leave my eR and Aurender powered on at all times. 
@Superdad 

I wonder if the router is refreshing the lease, some do after 24 hours. 

Some routers allow a refresh time of 999 hours, others don't have a setting at all. If the latter, perhaps assign the Aurender MAC address a permanent IP address, in that way when the refresh occurs, the assignment works right away.

[JohnSwenson]

25 minutes ago, One and a half said:

I wonder if the router is refreshing the lease, some do after 24 hours. 

Some routers allow a refresh time of 999 hours, others don't have a setting at all. If the latter, perhaps assign the Aurender MAC address a permanent IP address, in that way when the refresh occurs, the assignment works right away.

I have had this happen with regularity in my house with different equipment. Some endpoints always get the same IP address when the DHCP server renews the lease but others seem to frequently get a new IP address which can wreak havoc with network music systems. The weird thing is that after doing this a bunch of times the all of the sudden it will then settle down and get the same address on every  renewal. I never did figure this behavior out.

 

But I don't think this is the issue here since it seems the endpoint is saying it is not getting ANY address. I have also had that happen and that is almost always a fault of the DHCP server itself. On MANY routers the DHCP server has this weird tendency to get slower and slower  over time and eventually will not respond fast enough to DHCP requests. Adding switches to a path (such as the ER) can slow the path down enough that responses from the DHCP server to not make it to the endpoint soon enough and they time out.  The usual fix for this is to reboot whatever device is your DHCP server, which will then start working quickly and again, over time, start having problems.

 

John S.

[Superdad]

2 hours ago, agladstone said:

Any thoughts on why I need to constantly turn off and turn back on (reboot) my eR? 

Hi Allen:

Can you confirm if you are or are not using an external clock with your EtherREGEN?

If using an external clock, it must stay connected, on, and running perfectly 100% of the time—without even a millisecond of glitch. Any clock glitch that occurs—even if overnight when you are asleep—will require that power be removed/reapplied to the EtherREGEN. 

 

The above turned out to be the issue for another user last week, so it’s fresh on my mind. 

Of course this does not apply if you are not using and external reference clock. 

[One and a half]

1 hour ago, JohnSwenson said:

I have had this happen with regularity in my house with different equipment. Some endpoints always get the same IP address when the DHCP server renews the lease but others seem to frequently get a new IP address which can wreak havoc with network music systems. The weird thing is that after doing this a bunch of times the all of the sudden it will then settle down and get the same address on every  renewal. I never did figure this behavior out.

 

But I don't think this is the issue here since it seems the endpoint is saying it is not getting ANY address. I have also had that happen and that is almost always a fault of the DHCP server itself. On MANY routers the DHCP server has this weird tendency to get slower and slower  over time and eventually will not respond fast enough to DHCP requests. Adding switches to a path (such as the ER) can slow the path down enough that responses from the DHCP server to not make it to the endpoint soon enough and they time out.  The usual fix for this is to reboot whatever device is your DHCP server, which will then start working quickly and again, over time, start having problems.

 

John S.

Just weird unexpected behaviour, send me nuts. Like for the jcat net Femto card essentially uses two nics, each one has its own MAC.

 

Wired : Router > Nic 1, Nic 2 > ER > Lumin

 

I’ve bridged the Nic 1 & Nic 2 connection in Windows and the router assigns the IP address to the ‘bridged’ Nic MAC address which is usually Nic 1.  Nic 2 is not assigned and the Lumin is setup for DHCP, so it works.
 

 Now for some reason, on a reboot, Windows assigns the other nic’s MAC and the Lumin doesn’t connect cause it’s not getting the IP address although it remains connected. Lumin then displays network error. Even on a reboot of the server won’t fix, have to find the MAC address that’s active for the bridge , rehashing the router and off it goes.

[GryphonGuy]

21 hours ago, Duckworp said:

OK thanks. Could you let me know what transceiver wavelength you found was the best?  

 

I and many others have found 1310nm wavelength to be significantly better than 850nm, for example. A cautionary YMMV applies here.

 

Regards

GG

[GryphonGuy]

8 minutes ago, One and a half said:

Just weird unexpected behaviour, send me nuts. Like for the jcat net Femto card essentially uses two nics, each one has its own MAC.

 

Wired : Router > Nic 1, Nic 2 > ER > Lumin

 

I’ve bridged the Nic 1 & Nic 2 connection in Windows and the router assigns the IP address to the ‘bridged’ Nic MAC address which is usually Nic 1.  Nic 2 is not assigned and the Lumin is setup for DHCP, so it works.
 

 Now for some reason, on a reboot, Windows assigns the other nic’s MAC and the Lumin doesn’t connect cause it’s not getting the IP address although it remains connected. Lumin then displays network error. Even on a reboot of the server won’t fix, have to find the MAC address that’s active for the bridge , rehashing the router and off it goes.

 

If it's possible to set or spoof a MAC address onto the logical bridge connection, rather than rely on each NIC's MAC address that will be a stable MAC address, at least for the DHCP server to use.

 

It would also be nice to know why NIC 1 is delayed or disabled from requesting a DHCP address on a reboot but not from a cold start. Perhaps when rebooting NIC 1 is not connected but did have an address and windows thoughtfully sees NIC 2 without an address and requests one for the DHCP server?

 

Lot's of troubleshooting ahead and maybe even technical support of either the JCAT card or even windows to stop NIC 2 taking priority.

 

Regards

GG

[agladstone]

1 hour ago, Superdad said:

Hi Allen:

Can you confirm if you are or are not using an external clock with your EtherREGEN?

If using an external clock, it must stay connected, on, and running perfectly 100% of the time—without even a millisecond of glitch. Any clock glitch that occurs—even if overnight when you are asleep—will require that power be removed/reapplied to the EtherREGEN. 

 

The above turned out to be the issue for another user last week, so it’s fresh on my mind. 

Of course this does not apply if you are not using and external reference clock. 

No clock (yet anyhow! Lol) 

Cable Modem -> Netgear Nighthawk Router & Switch -> eR -> Aurender 

[lwr]

14 minutes ago, agladstone said:

No clock (yet anyhow! Lol) 

Cable Modem -> Netgear Nighthawk Router & Switch -> eR -> Aurender 

Is your Nighthawk running the latest firmware update?

[agladstone]

1 minute ago, lwr said:

Is your Nighthawk running the latest firmware update?

No, it’s one firmware behind. I actually tried several times to update to the most recent and I couldn’t get it to work.  

[atxkyle]

5 hours ago, agladstone said:

Any thoughts on why I need to constantly turn off and turn back on (reboot) my eR? 
My Aurender which the eR is feeding tells me there is no IP and I need to reboot the eR almost every listening session to get my Aurender to register an IP address again? 
I leave my eR and Aurender powered on at all times. 
@Superdad 

I had a similar issue and it turned out to be a bad Ethernet cable. Swapped out cable and no more connectivity issues. 

[R1200CL]

@agladstone

Good ethernet cables is always good tip. It’s strange you’re not able to upgrade your router. 
Assuming you using the Nighthawk as DHCP server, I would assign fixed IP address to your endpoint / Aurender. Enable flow control. Turn of WiFi on Aurender. 
Is your switch a managed one ?

[LEO SOUND]

I need advice for the "best connection" on my etherregen.
If I buy an AfterDark clock, that this clock is powered by another LPS than the ER and if I plug an SFP into the ER.

what advice for connecting my intel NUC server for roon and my Auralic streamer: server on side A and streamer on side B of etherregen? or the opposite ?

[R1200CL]

29 minutes ago, LEO SOUND said:

what advice for connecting my intel NUC server for roon and my Auralic streamer: server on side A and streamer on side B of etherregen?

Yes, this is the recommended way. B side closest to DAC/streamer/endpoint. 
 

 

32 minutes ago, LEO SOUND said:

If I buy an AfterDark clock, that this clock is powered by another LPS than the ER and if I plug an SFP into the ER.

Clock on separate power is good too. 
 

Not sure where you like to put the SFP. But it’s on the A side, so assume you would need some sort of a FMC if it’s your NUC. 

[roman410]

14 hours ago, One and a half said:

Just weird unexpected behaviour, send me nuts. Like for the jcat net Femto card essentially uses two nics, each one has its own MAC.

 

Wired : Router > Nic 1, Nic 2 > ER > Lumin

 

I’ve bridged the Nic 1 & Nic 2 connection in Windows and the router assigns the IP address to the ‘bridged’ Nic MAC address which is usually Nic 1.  Nic 2 is not assigned and the Lumin is setup for DHCP, so it works.
 

 Now for some reason, on a reboot, Windows assigns the other nic’s MAC and the Lumin doesn’t connect cause it’s not getting the IP address although it remains connected. Lumin then displays network error. Even on a reboot of the server won’t fix, have to find the MAC address that’s active for the bridge , rehashing the router and off it goes.

 

Try disable and delete bridge connection in Windows, and make new bridge connection. This was fix my issue connection between Logitech media server and mysqueezebox.com to load Deezer app.

Also try take off EtherRegen from chain, because if I remember correctly, Alex mentioned somewhere, for some reasons Ether Regen do not like bridged connections.

[James Stephens]

14 hours ago, agladstone said:

No, it’s one firmware behind. I actually tried several times to update to the most recent and I couldn’t get it to work.  

The manual update method is the most reliable of the 3 methods of updating the firmware:

 

https://kb.netgear.com/23960/How-do-I-manually-update-the-firmware-on-my-NETGEAR-router

 

Have you tried that?

 

(Doubt it will fix your issue but at least you might be able to update)

[R1200CL]

@One and a half

Wouldn't assign IP address in your router (DHCP) solve what you’re talking about ?

 

I guess there is some idea behind bridging ? Can you explain ?

 

[Nikko1960]

Folks

 

I bought one of these to try out with my EtherRegen.  Having connected everything and rebooted the ER, there is no network connection to the UltraRendu on the B-side of the ER.  If I connect the ethernet directly into the ER again, all is fine.  Did I buy the wrong thing?

 

[James Stephens]

On 4/2/2021 at 11:04 AM, chungjh said:

Did the heat sink lower the temp of ER?

Hi there, top of ER around heat sink .. mid 90's to low 100's Fahrenheit. Top of heat sink low 80's Fahrenheit. Best, James

[agladstone]

7 hours ago, R1200CL said:

@agladstone

Good ethernet cables is always good tip. It’s strange you’re not able to upgrade your router. 
Assuming you using the Nighthawk as DHCP server, I would assign fixed IP address to your endpoint / Aurender. Enable flow control. Turn of WiFi on Aurender. 
Is your switch a managed one ?

I can try this! I actually have a fixed IP set for my Synology NAS, so should be easy enough to try for Aurender also. 
I have the Netgear Nighthawk R8500, it is a wifi router and it also has a 5 port switch built in and can be managed somewhat via the router login software. 
it’s about 4-5 years old now, it was top of line/ state of art when I got it, but I’m sure there’s better ones available now. 
I have also been wondering if it would benefit me to connect one or two switches to it and then have one switch with all non audio connections and the second switch which would go to EtherRegen only, would that provide any noise benefits? I do have a couple of the Netgear GS105’s not being used that apparently are good with the JSST grounding on DC negative? 

[agladstone]

3 hours ago, James Stephens said:

The manual update method is the most reliable of the 3 methods of updating the firmware:

 

https://kb.netgear.com/23960/How-do-I-manually-update-the-firmware-on-my-NETGEAR-router

 

Have you tried that?

 

(Doubt it will fix your issue but at least you might be able to update)

I’ll try this (again), I have tried a few time’s before and I keep getting errors, etc - not sure why? 
I’ve been tempted to maybe get a newer model or even something like a Ubiquitel, not sure if it will make a difference? 

[Superdad]

1 hour ago, Nikko1960 said:

I bought one of these to try out with my EtherRegen.  Having connected everything and rebooted the ER, there is no network connection to the UltraRendu on the B-side of the ER.  If I connect the ethernet directly into the ER again, all is fine.  Did I buy the wrong thing?

 

 

Hi:

While I am not sure why it is not working for you (try shoving the module into the cage a little deeper, that often works), RJ45 SFP transceivers such as the one you bought are a significant step backwards in the EtherREGEN versus its own RJ45 ports. 

This is for a host of reasons (which we have detailed elsewhere), most especially that RJ45 SFP modules—such as the one you bought—have their own cheap PHY and clock, all crammed in with a couple of cheap switching voltage regulators and probably just 2-core or 4-core magnetics. 

All of which is a major compromise in performance versus the goals of the EtherREGEN.

A fiber-optic SFP transceiver has no clock, no PHY, no magnetics, and probably just one voltage regulator. 

[One and a half]

11 hours ago, R1200CL said:

@One and a half

Wouldn't assign IP address in your router (DHCP) solve what you’re talking about ?

 

I guess there is some idea behind bridging ? Can you explain ?

 

Yes, this is normal practice now, even before the EtherRegen was installed. All devices are DHCP with the router assigning fixed IP addresses according to MAC Address. The one exception is the SACD ripper BD, where the address is assigned locally.

 

The reason for using bridging is here,, related to the first post: A novel way to massively improve the SQ of computer audio streaming. Bridging avoids the connection to another switch (this eliminating the crap that's picked up along the way there), and maintains the integrity of the JCAT Net Femto card.

[One and a half]

12 hours ago, roman410 said:

 

Try disable and delete bridge connection in Windows, and make new bridge connection. This was fix my issue connection between Logitech media server and mysqueezebox.com to load Deezer app.

Also try take off EtherRegen from chain, because if I remember correctly, Alex mentioned somewhere, for some reasons Ether Regen do not like bridged connections.

Thanks for the tip! So far the Lumin always connects with the ER, maybe an update fixed the Windows swapping the MAC address. If it plays up, will follow your tip.