The EtherREGEN thread for various network, cable, power experiences and experiments

[GryphonGuy]

6 hours ago, PYP said:

could you mention the entire chain?  would it be:   Router > copper ethernet > er#1  B to A >fiber > er#2 A to B > copper ethernet > ultrarendu > USB > DAC

 

 

I hope this helps:

Avid MTRX is an audio router that has 8-channel ADC and 8-channel DAC in it. Made by Digital Audio Denmark but branded Avid MTRX.

 

As I have mentioned elsewhere, the fibre connections to and from EtherREGENs are running signals of 1310nm from FibreStore transceivers (in Singapore so quite close).

 

Regards

GG

[Johnnydev]

This Audio Sensibility also works very well from Farad Super3 to EtherRegen. I have 1 left, if interested in Europe, please send an email.

 

 

[PYP]

7 hours ago, R1200CL said:

There isn’t any listings impressions as far as I know comparing a top expensive square wave clock vs a good sine into the EtherRegen. I suppose we talking about a 2K difference. 

 If I didn't already have a clock, this is what I would want to read about.  Of course, the ability to generalize across systems would mean that it was just a starting place.

 

 @Clockmeister did mention his own impressions of Mutec vs. the highest level Cybershaft, but I believe that was in the context of connecting to DACs, etc., and not necessarily the eR.  Perhaps that comparison would have the same result with the eR, but perhaps not as distinct. ???

[JohnSwenson]

7 hours ago, GryphonGuy said:

 

I hope this helps:

Avid MTRX is an audio router that has 8-channel ADC and 8-channel DAC in it. Made by Digital Audio Denmark but branded Avid MTRX.

 

As I have mentioned elsewhere, the fibre connections to and from EtherREGENs are running signals of 1310nm from FibreStore transceivers (in Singapore so quite close).

 

Regards

GG

Hi GG,

I just want to make sure you have the correct fiber cables, you say they are OM4 and OM5, these are multi mode (that's what the "M" stands for), but most modules that use 1310 are single mode. Could you check your modules, if they are in fact single mode you should be using OS fiber rather than OM.

 

John S.

[agladstone]

16 hours ago, R1200CL said:

@agladstone

So many questions 😀

I think you more or less know what I’m thinking is good cables in general. 
I rather prioritize good DC cables, as this is well proven to to have a good effect (yes JSSG360), over expensive ethernet cables.

 

I’ve studied Belden website a lot. One can learn something about ethernet cables there. I have an idea of what would be the ultimate ethernet cable based on Belden technology. It would be an extremely stiff cable. 
One of the trick they use is to glue the twisted pairs together. This make them stiff. This is the one Blue Jeans is using. (A special version).   Still making a Faraday cage isn’t in their solutions. (Yes that’s the JSSG360). Another thing  Belden has is a very special plug. Not yet deployed in audio. The technology behind it make sense to me. 
 

Don’t forget your JS-2 is supplied with good DC cable as well. Remember Alex is the only person in the world having access to those DC plugs you’re getting. You can apply JSSG360 to those cables. In theory may be a better cable as more (lower) AWG. 

The supplied JS-2 DC cables (I have 4 now since I just purchased a second JS-2!!) are unfortunately way too long for me and my set up. I wish I had good soldering skills and the required equipment to be able to shorten them myself. I need like 0.3M (I also think there is a benefit to shorter DC cables too) and the ones that come with the JS-2 are 1.5 M I believe. 

[GryphonGuy]

5 hours ago, JohnSwenson said:

Hi GG,

I just want to make sure you have the correct fiber cables, you say they are OM4 and OM5, these are multi mode (that's what the "M" stands for), but most modules that use 1310 are single mode. Could you check your modules, if they are in fact single mode you should be using OS fiber rather than OM.

 

John S.

 

Hi John,

 

Thanks for your concern. Items are sold as combined Multi-mode or Single-mode. The account manager recommended this for the multi-mode cable from technical team advice.

 

https://www.fs.com/sg/products/37460.html

 

Regards

GG.

[Duckworp]

13 hours ago, GryphonGuy said:

 

I hope this helps:

Avid MTRX is an audio router that has 8-channel ADC and 8-channel DAC in it. Made by Digital Audio Denmark but branded Avid MTRX.

 

As I have mentioned elsewhere, the fibre connections to and from EtherREGENs are running signals of 1310nm from FibreStore transceivers (in Singapore so quite close).

 

Regards

GG

Do you use OM4/5 for any particular reason?  I use OM1 but have not tried OM4/5. 

[R1200CL]

Singel mode is best !

https://www.fiberinstrumentsales.com/blogs/singlemode-fiber-vs-multimode-fiber-for-your-network-is-it-time-to-reconsider.html

 

Older multi-mode fiber used low-cost light emitting diodes (LEDs) to transmit their light signals.  One of the earliest multi-mode fibers, Optical Multi-mode 1 (OM1), has a larger core diameter of 62.5 microns.  Optical Multi-mode 2 (OM2) has a smaller core size of 50 microns and a higher bandwidth.  LED light sources cannot be modulated quickly, so in order to reach higher data rates, laser sources were required.  Optical Multi-mode 3 (OM3) was developed to work with vertical cavity surface emitting lasers (VCSELs) that operate at 750- 850nm.   Optical Multi-mode 4 (OM4) is also laser optimized but has a longer reach than OM3.  Single-mode fibers require longer wavelength, 1300nm or 1550nm laser sources.  These lasers are either Fabry-Perot (FP) or Distributed Feedback (DFB) type lasers.

Duplex LC multi-mode fiber optic patch cord (Courtesy of Corning Optical Communications).

Contrary to what you might think, the larger core size of multi-mode fiber does not carry as much data as single-mode fiber.  We tend to think of larger pipes carrying more material than smaller pipes, but in the case of optical fiber the opposite is true.  Multi-mode fiber has lower bandwidth than single-mode fiber.  Effects such as modal dispersion and modal noise limit the amount of data the multi-mode fiber can carry.

Modal dispersion spreads an initial near-instantaneous edge of a pulse out over time when the light signal gets to its destination.  This limits how quickly the light can be turned on and off and thus limits the bandwidth of the fiber.  These effects also limit how far the light signal can travel down the fiber before neighboring pulses bleed into each other.

 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modal_dispersion

(One issue wit MM)

 

Single-mode fiber is not affected by modal dispersion since it supports only one mode.

 

[GryphonGuy]

10 hours ago, Duckworp said:

Do you use OM4/5 for any particular reason?  I use OM1 but have not tried OM4/5. 

 

Hi Duckworp,

 

Future-proofing and minimising signal loss is the reason for the OM4/5. Mind you 30 metres is paranoia level at signal loss but, hey, numbers are numbers. 😆 OM5 is actually worse than OM4 for distance at the slower speeds of the EtherRegen requirements but I could not tell the difference in sound quality of the OM4 vs OM5.

 

The reason I went with Multi-mode cable in the first instance was again on a recommendation from the FibreStore. Given that the price of 2x30 metres single-mode cable is trivial even by Malaysian standards, I will order two to see if it makes any difference as the transceivers I use are both multi-mode and Single-mode transceivers and also use the single-mode wavelength of 1310nm.

 

So yet another round of tests. What else is there to do during lock-down anyway? 😀

 

Regards

GG

[One and a half]

EtherRegen listening evaluations day 10 (252 hours burn in)

 

Last post saw elevated voltages on the normally grounded connectors with the ER in place at 6 Days burn in. Today, finally, the voltages are under control, there's maybe 1mV DC offset between the 9V on the PSU and any point that references to 0V, XLR sheels, USB shells, Lumin ground point. The BNC connector floats above ground, which it should for clocking in case anyone has an interest there.

 

How does it sound? Like it's supposed to, wide sound-stage, instruments spread out with no holes in the image, just a seamless landscape. So there's a correlation between elevated voltages on the grounds and sound stage, interesting!

 

Comparing SACD/CD to ripped versions of the same, it's razor close. CD is a fraction warmer presentation, that's about it. I would consider the EtherRegen burned in. 

 

Changed the wiring from the power supply to the ER and ifi Micro USB3, used a redundant length of Furutech AG power cable (14 gauge SPC Shielded) and parallel feeds with 2 core and shield instrumentation cable, guess at 16 AWG. Sensing cable was an old Monster Bass cable, 2 core and shield. 

 

There's also a 1m STP between the B side and the Lumin input, will leave this in for a while.

[James Stephens]

Hi all,

 

I have added some copper heat sinks on top of my ER + LPS-1.2. I wasn't looking to add heat sinks specifically, but i wanted to add some weight without impeding the ability of the devices to shed heat. My goto of a small granite block therefore seemed like the incorrect approach in this instance. I elected to go with copper. It is over 3 times as dense vs aluminum and also over 50% more thermally conductive, so a win win. I cut a 1mm thermal pad to put in between the heat sink and the device in each case ... the pad is tacky enough that I was able to turn the device upside down and the heatsink stayed attached; that's enough for me.

 

I got these 80mmx80mmx20mm heat sinks from AliExpress for under $30 each. The part number to search on is YL8020 on the YOLOWIN store.

 

Best,

James

[MartinT]

20 minutes ago, James Stephens said:

I have added some copper heat sinks on top of my ER + LPS-1.2.

 

Nice, I added heatsinks to my ER and uR (both similar cases).  Your copper ones are prettier!

[LewinskiH01]

Do you notice a difference in sound, or is this done for peace of mind that the units run cooler?

[James Stephens]

23 minutes ago, LewinskiH01 said:

Do you notice a difference in sound, or is this done for peace of mind that the units run cooler?

 

Hi. I added the copper heat sinks to help reduce vibrations.

 

My devices are still on a lightweight and wobbly shelf ... once I have replaced that I might care to comment on the overall effect of my vibration-reducing efforts.

 

PS  to all - the custom shelf I have planned is so overkill it is going to make these heat sinks seem like an amuse bouche. Stay tuned lol!

 

James

[PYP]

8 hours ago, One and a half said:

EtherRegen listening evaluations day 10 (252 hours burn in)

There's also a 1m STP between the B side and the Lumin input, will leave this in for a while.

Is the eR powered all the time?  Just curious since it sounds best that way in my system.  

[chungjh]

Did the heat sink lower the temp of ER?

[Duckworp]

On 4/1/2021 at 12:45 PM, GryphonGuy said:

 

Hi Duckworp,

 

Future-proofing and minimising signal loss is the reason for the OM4/5. Mind you 30 metres is paranoia level at signal loss but, hey, numbers are numbers. 😆 OM5 is actually worse than OM4 for distance at the slower speeds of the EtherRegen requirements but I could not tell the difference in sound quality of the OM4 vs OM5.

 

The reason I went with Multi-mode cable in the first instance was again on a recommendation from the FibreStore. Given that the price of 2x30 metres single-mode cable is trivial even by Malaysian standards, I will order two to see if it makes any difference as the transceivers I use are both multi-mode and Single-mode transceivers and also use the single-mode wavelength of 1310nm.

 

So yet another round of tests. What else is there to do during lock-down anyway? 😀

 

Regards

GG

 

So are you saying that OM4 will give me better SQ than OM1?  I have a Cisco switch and took ages to find a module that would work in both it and the EtherREGEN.  I am not sure it will work with Single-Mode OM4.

[JonD]

If the EtherREGEN is in a well ventilated area, surely the heatsinks are not required at all? 

 

On another note, has there been a consensus of opinion on what voltage is best into the EtherREGEN, or is it irrelevant?

 

I am going to order another Farad Super3 next week (have a 12v one at the moment) and was wondering if its worth changing to 7v or 9v for example. 

[JonD]

Also, since this thread is about experimenting with hardware, which will require validation through listening; what tracks are people using to test their hardware changes? 

 

I have Tidal so can play most music; but I tend to stream from my NAS for critical listening when making changes...

 

Recently I have been testing using music from:

• Lana Del Rey
• Gregory Porter
• Rage Against the Machine
• Sturgill Simpson
• Tom Morello

[JohnSwenson]

4 hours ago, Duckworp said:

 

So are you saying that OM4 will give me better SQ than OM1?  I have a Cisco switch and took ages to find a module that would work in both it and the EtherREGEN.  I am not sure it will work with Single-Mode OM4.

There is no such thing as single mode OM4, The "M" MEANS multi-mode. Single mode fibers start with OS (guess what the "S" means).

 

John S.

[James Stephens]

 

43 minutes ago, JonD said:

If the EtherREGEN is in a well ventilated area, surely the heatsinks are not required at all? 

 

Totally .. I am just using them for vibration reduction.

 

40 minutes ago, JonD said:

Also, since this thread is about experimenting with hardware, which will require validation through listening; what tracks are people using to test their hardware changes? 

 

I don't have to use Steely Dan? ... I assumed when I got into the hobby that it was audiophile law. 🤣

[Superdad]

17 minutes ago, James Stephens said:

I don't have to use Steely Dan? ... I assumed when I got into the hobby that it was audiophile law. 🤣

 

Sorry but I find only early Steely Dan to amuse oreille. 

Can't buy a thrill... 

[MartinT]

1 hour ago, JonD said:

Also, since this thread is about experimenting with hardware, which will require validation through listening; what tracks are people using to test their hardware changes? 

 

 

I use Qobuz hi-res streaming for all my listening.

 

It's best to use music we personally love. For me, a mixture of rock, female voice, 20th century composers like Shostakovich, organ, bit of trip hop, the list goes on. Music is very personal. Don't listen for changes. Just listen.

[One and a half]

8 hours ago, PYP said:

Is the eR powered all the time?  Just curious since it sounds best that way in my system.  

Well, this morning, the EtherRegen was powered down all night. Left the power on 30-45 minutes before listening, seems to have stabilised during this time, it's about the same time for other electronics to settle down. I would say all attributes have returned since yesterday. Will work on a changeover system when the main system is off the EtherRegen stays on from another PSU and switches to the linear supply when listening. Would be nice to have some data go through, but that's really messy.

[GryphonGuy]

9 hours ago, Duckworp said:

 

So are you saying that OM4 will give me better SQ than OM1?  I have a Cisco switch and took ages to find a module that would work in both it and the EtherREGEN.  I am not sure it will work with Single-Mode OM4.

 

No I'm not. I cannot say those words as I have no experience with OM1. I did not find any SQ difference between OM4 and OM5 in the cable itself, just the transceiver wavelength change made a huge difference to both OM4 and OM5 cable. As others have said, there is no such thing as single-mode OM4. OM4 is multi-mode cable.

 

Regards

GG