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The EtherREGEN thread for various network, cable, power experiences and experiments


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1 hour ago, LEO SOUND said:

I have a question regarding the possibility of using a ground cable.
If my etherregen is powered by a FARAD, and if I buy a clock that will be powered by an audio JS2 for example or another FARAD?
do I have to put a ground cable?

I assume you’re talking about EtherRegen. You should get the best answer reading the user manual. 
Using an external clock and power both with same PS isn’t the best solution. (Power is on A side. Clock input is B side). Remember the EtherRegen will be just fine with the supplied PS. 

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On 3/29/2021 at 6:18 AM, Rsbrsvp said:

I use ghent 7n copper myself.

@GryphonGuy @soares I am also trying to determine what new DC cables to buy for increase in SQ. 
I need several to go from two new JS2’s (one powering my Mytek Brooklyn DAC+, the other powering an ISO-Regen and an ifi iUSB 3.0 Reclockers)  and an LPS 1-2 powering an EtherRegen 

I am curious about the newer Ghent DC choices, I have a few of his original Canare 4S6 cables, but now he has the Gotham G416 and the Neotech 7n Solid copper and he also has a no brand starquad Silver over copper option. 
Has anyone compared these and determined one better than the others? Is it worth getting the JS360 upgrade? 
Anyone know how the Ghent DC Cables compare to the expensive Audio Sensibilities Neotech 7n Silver ? I’ve heard both good and negative reviews of the AS silver DC (more positive than negative), but they seem really expensive for DC Cables ? 

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Question about Audiophile Ethernet cables for EtherRegen and upstream. 
I’m also trying to decide what Ethernet cables to get for my new EtherRegen. 
1. does it only make sense to get a high end one for the B side out of ER into my Aurender Server? 
2. It seems the consensus is that from B side to Server, it should not have the shield tied to the RJ45 plugs, how about for all the other Ethernet cables upstream of ER? For example, should the Ethernet cables going from modem to router and router to A side of ER also not have the shield tied to RJ45 plug ? 
How about other equipment plugged into the router / switch but not the direct line modem-router-A side ER? 
I found the brand Linkup Cat 8 on Amazon and it looks like very well made and well shielded cable and they have field hand terminated metal RJ45 connectors that look like the telegarten ones and they’re pretty reasonable in price (like $30-$50 per cable). 
I was thinking they may be good to use upstream and that I could easily disconnect the shield that goes to connector if it’s bad to have any Ethernet cable upstream and to the A side of ER ? 
https://www.amazon.com/LINKUP-Ethernet-Screened-2000Mhz-Structure/dp/B07VXKMRBH


Any suggestions for the B side of ER that aren’t outrageous in price (under $400 USD)? 
I have read the Shunyata Venom and the AQ Diamond are pretty good? The Ghent Ethernet cables look very similar to the Amazon Linkup except with the addition of JS360 ? 

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24 minutes ago, agladstone said:

@GryphonGuy @soares I am also trying to determine what new DC cables to buy for increase in SQ. 
I need several to go from two new JS2’s (one powering my Mytek Brooklyn DAC+, the other powering an ISO-Regen and an ifi iUSB 3.0 Reclockers)  and an LPS 1-2 powering an EtherRegen 

I am curious about the newer Ghent DC choices, I have a few of his original Canare 4S6 cables, but now he has the Gotham G416 and the Neotech 7n Solid copper and he also has a no brand starquad Silver over copper option. 
Has anyone compared these and determined one better than the others? Is it worth getting the JS360 upgrade? 
Anyone know how the Ghent DC Cables compare to the expensive Audio Sensibilities Neotech 7n Silver ? I’ve heard both good and negative reviews of the AS silver DC (more positive than negative), but they seem really expensive for DC Cables ? 

I compared the AS with Ghent (but not remember the reference) and the DC special cable sold by Sonore. The improvement were worthwhile. The tone didn’t change at all, just the details. I own 2 DC cables from AS. I think that they have a 30 days return policy. Please confirm with them. 

Jensen VRD-iFF>Router>Rj45>opticalModule>
SFP>Buffalo2016>SFP>opticalModule >Rj45>

IZen Mk3>Rj45> Delock62619>Rj45>
etherRegen (Master Clock+ Mini-Circuits BLP)>SFP>opticalRendu>USB>IsoRegen>

USB>Phoenix>USB>OPPO 205 (Modded)>HMS “the Perfect Match”>Proac Tablette Reference 8 Signature.
 

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35 minutes ago, agladstone said:

@GryphonGuy @soares I am also trying to determine what new DC cables to buy for increase in SQ. 
I need several to go from two new JS2’s (one powering my Mytek Brooklyn DAC+, the other powering an ISO-Regen and an ifi iUSB 3.0 Reclockers)  and an LPS 1-2 powering an EtherRegen 

I am curious about the newer Ghent DC choices, I have a few of his original Canare 4S6 cables, but now he has the Gotham G416 and the Neotech 7n Solid copper and he also has a no brand starquad Silver over copper option. 
Has anyone compared these and determined one better than the others? Is it worth getting the JS360 upgrade? 
Anyone know how the Ghent DC Cables compare to the expensive Audio Sensibilities Neotech 7n Silver ? I’ve heard both good and negative reviews of the AS silver DC (more positive than negative), but they seem really expensive for DC Cables ? 

 

Are you concerned your DC cable doesn't deliver enough power? If not, what's the working theory to explain that a thicker or a silver cable can affect the sound?

 

When I needed a custom DC cable for a specific length, I inquired with Ghent if the G416 made any difference. His reply, "Try for yourself." Which is a polite way to say, "Leave me alone. My job is  to cater for  people's desires." 

Stereo

[Genelec 1032C x 2 + 7360 x 2] <== [MC3+USB x 3 <-- REF10 SE120] <== [AERIS G2] <== [EtherRegen x 2]
Chain switchable to [Genelec 8331 x 2 + 7350]


Surround

[Genelec 1032C x 3 + 8431 x 2  + 7360 x 2] <== [MiniDSP U-DIO8] <== [Mac Mini] 

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22 minutes ago, agladstone said:

Any suggestions for the B side of ER that aren’t outrageous in price (under $400 USD)?

...many would consider 400 US very outrageous! That said, a couple of good options I have used and like:

https://www.sablonaudio.com/digital


and the grossly under-loved option from Triode Wire Labs:

https://triodewirelabs.com/product/freedom-ethernet-cable/

 

Additional: Sablon is fairly stiff. TWL is very compliant. Happy Hunting!

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3 hours ago, LEO SOUND said:

I have a question regarding the possibility of using a ground cable.
If my etherregen is powered by a FARAD, and if I buy a clock that will be powered by an audio JS2 for example or another FARAD?
do I have to put a ground cable?

 

Grounding the ER does no harm, and a ground cable is only $10-$20. Just ground it and remove all doubts from your heart. 

Stereo

[Genelec 1032C x 2 + 7360 x 2] <== [MC3+USB x 3 <-- REF10 SE120] <== [AERIS G2] <== [EtherRegen x 2]
Chain switchable to [Genelec 8331 x 2 + 7350]


Surround

[Genelec 1032C x 3 + 8431 x 2  + 7360 x 2] <== [MiniDSP U-DIO8] <== [Mac Mini] 

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9 hours ago, PYP said:

Might as well go for the record!   Seems you have clock outputs remaining for the 3rd too (why do I feel like the person who is saying:  Yes, jump off that building).  

 

I was very surprised by the contribution of the second eR, but just as with your setup (before you added the router) my upstream is rather polluted.  That is my working theory at the moment.  

 

Quite astute of you to notice the free clock output :)

 

Regrettably, I won't set any record. There are users  with cascades of 4 switches in this thread:

 A novel way to massively improve the SQ of computer audio streaming

 

Stereo

[Genelec 1032C x 2 + 7360 x 2] <== [MC3+USB x 3 <-- REF10 SE120] <== [AERIS G2] <== [EtherRegen x 2]
Chain switchable to [Genelec 8331 x 2 + 7350]


Surround

[Genelec 1032C x 3 + 8431 x 2  + 7360 x 2] <== [MiniDSP U-DIO8] <== [Mac Mini] 

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35 minutes ago, agladstone said:

Any suggestions for the B side of ER that aren’t outrageous in price (under $400 USD)? 

$350 for 1 meter:  https://www.puristaudiodesign.com/Data/products/misc/cat7.html  

 

https://www.thecableco.com/cat7-ethernet-cable.html

Mola Mola Tambaqui > Kubala-Sosna XLR > Mola Mola Kaluga > KS biwire > B&W 803 D3

 

Ethernet:  iMac/Roon/Qobuz > ... in-wall 5e ... > Sonore opticalModule [Sonore 5V LPS] > UpTone EtherREGEN #1 [smps] > eR #2 [LPS 1.2] + Cybershaft OP13 [UpTone JS-2 LPS] > Tambaqui ( = DAC/Roon endpoint/volume control)

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10 hours ago, PYP said:

Might as well go for the record!   Seems you have clock outputs remaining for the 3rd too (why do I feel like the person who is saying:  Yes, jump off that building).  

 

I was very surprised by the contribution of the second eR, but just as with your setup (before you added the router) my upstream is rather polluted.  That is my working theory at the moment.  

I read a repot that better power supply and OM seem to make a more substantial difference than second ER.  For those with experience, please comment if you agree.

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33 minutes ago, Rsbrsvp said:

I read a repot that better power supply and OM seem to make a more substantial difference than second ER.  For those with experience, please comment if you agree.

Yes ... 100% agreed ...

 

B&W 800 Diamond D2, Goldmund Eidos Reference CD, Goldmund Telos 600, Goldmund Mimesis 32, Cello Audio Palette MIV.[br]MacBook Pro, LIO, Mytek 192, HD800, Luxman SQ-38U, Luxman MQ-88u

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1 hour ago, Rsbrsvp said:

I read a repot that better power supply and OM seem to make a more substantial difference than second ER.  For those with experience, please comment if you agree.

All systems are different.  In my system the second eR made a greater difference than adding an LPS to the first eR and adding an OM with its own LPS.  But it is a little hard to tell since the changes are additive.    I would certainly make sure the eR has a good LPS as a first step.   

Mola Mola Tambaqui > Kubala-Sosna XLR > Mola Mola Kaluga > KS biwire > B&W 803 D3

 

Ethernet:  iMac/Roon/Qobuz > ... in-wall 5e ... > Sonore opticalModule [Sonore 5V LPS] > UpTone EtherREGEN #1 [smps] > eR #2 [LPS 1.2] + Cybershaft OP13 [UpTone JS-2 LPS] > Tambaqui ( = DAC/Roon endpoint/volume control)

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Of any use, a repeat post the other day on power supplies:

 

The EtherRegen doesn't care what feeds it, really. What matters is what the power supply does to the rest of the system is where the differences are heard. This is based on listening using two PSU a linear supply AC fed from audio balanced supply, and the Uptone SMPS on an IT only 120V AC. Different devices, with very little difference with the audio.

 

Depending on the power supply, it produces switching noises which couple to earth and feedback through the AC network, and to DACs or amplifiers for that matter, where it the effects are audible. Switching may be regulators or bonded rectifier diodes or FETs, or an ICs that are capacitively coupled to the chassis of the power supply. It's how the PSU filters these artefacts will determine how it sounds.

AS Profile Equipment List        Say NO to MQA

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@agladstone

So many questions 😀

I think you more or less know what I’m thinking is good cables in general. 
I rather prioritize good DC cables, as this is well proven to to have a good effect (yes JSSG360), over expensive ethernet cables.

 

I’ve studied Belden website a lot. One can learn something about ethernet cables there. I have an idea of what would be the ultimate ethernet cable based on Belden technology. It would be an extremely stiff cable. 
One of the trick they use is to glue the twisted pairs together. This make them stiff. This is the one Blue Jeans is using. (A special version).   Still making a Faraday cage isn’t in their solutions. (Yes that’s the JSSG360). Another thing  Belden has is a very special plug. Not yet deployed in audio. The technology behind it make sense to me. 
 

Don’t forget your JS-2 is supplied with good DC cable as well. Remember Alex is the only person in the world having access to those DC plugs you’re getting. You can apply JSSG360 to those cables. In theory may be a better cable as more (lower) AWG. 

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1 hour ago, GryphonGuy said:

My 2nd eR made a huge difference too. Depth and expanse (in all directions) of the soundstage increased massively. Both eR's run on 1310nm transceivers on optical fibre.

 

could you mention the entire chain?  would it be:   Router > copper ethernet > er#1  B to A >fiber > er#2 A to B > copper ethernet > ultrarendu > USB > DAC

 

Mola Mola Tambaqui > Kubala-Sosna XLR > Mola Mola Kaluga > KS biwire > B&W 803 D3

 

Ethernet:  iMac/Roon/Qobuz > ... in-wall 5e ... > Sonore opticalModule [Sonore 5V LPS] > UpTone EtherREGEN #1 [smps] > eR #2 [LPS 1.2] + Cybershaft OP13 [UpTone JS-2 LPS] > Tambaqui ( = DAC/Roon endpoint/volume control)

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1 hour ago, GryphonGuy said:

As far as the Gotham GAC4 JSSG DC cable goes, I am putting the difference it makes down to the amount of shielding at has on each strand as well as the cable itself. Apparently Gotham designed that cable as a microphone cable to carry miniscule microphone signals to a microphone pre-amp in a studio.

That point can be convincingly argued for an analog audio single. I don't see how that's germane for a DC cord. BTW, these sort of things can be easily measured for current. 

Stereo

[Genelec 1032C x 2 + 7360 x 2] <== [MC3+USB x 3 <-- REF10 SE120] <== [AERIS G2] <== [EtherRegen x 2]
Chain switchable to [Genelec 8331 x 2 + 7350]


Surround

[Genelec 1032C x 3 + 8431 x 2  + 7360 x 2] <== [MiniDSP U-DIO8] <== [Mac Mini] 

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3 hours ago, Rsbrsvp said:

I read a repot that better power supply and OM seem to make a more substantial difference than second ER.  For those with experience, please comment if you agree.

 

In my case, the 2nd ER had much more profound impact than an LPS. Frankly, though the LSP brings something to the table, it rather subtle. 

Stereo

[Genelec 1032C x 2 + 7360 x 2] <== [MC3+USB x 3 <-- REF10 SE120] <== [AERIS G2] <== [EtherRegen x 2]
Chain switchable to [Genelec 8331 x 2 + 7350]


Surround

[Genelec 1032C x 3 + 8431 x 2  + 7360 x 2] <== [MiniDSP U-DIO8] <== [Mac Mini] 

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5 hours ago, Rsbrsvp said:

I read a repot that better power supply and OM seem to make a more substantial difference than second ER.  For those with experience, please comment if you agree.

There is one thing, that nobody will disagree on, and that’s definitely a power supply will matter. A lot. We may discuss endlessly if Uptone is better than SR4T or any other Paul Hynes PS or the Farad ones an an example. 

But supporting Uptone isn’t bad either 😜 You may be financing nice future improvements or products within the same nice price range we're used to. And you’re getting superb support. 

 

The biggest ever prove to me was the difference a LPS-1.2 (maybe it was a LPS-1) could make to a Squeezebox Touch. It was night and day. 
 

I have no experience on a second EtherRegen, but technologically there shouldn’t be no doubt that dual EtherRegens is better than oM + EtherRegen. But you can easily break the moat so how you utilize everything matters. 
Hence no final answer.


I bet dual EtherRegens with stock PS is better than oM + EtherRegen with same Meanwell PS.

This because it’s just a better solution. Technically speaking. 
 

Does it make sense to you ?

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2 hours ago, R1200CL said:

@agladstone

So many questions 😀

I think you more or less know what I’m thinking is good cables in general. 
I rather prioritize good DC cables, as this is well proven to to have a good effect (yes JSSG360), over expensive ethernet cables.

 

I’ve studied Belden website a lot. One can learn something about ethernet cables there. I have an idea of what would be the ultimate ethernet cable based on Belden technology. It would be an extremely stiff cable. 
One of the trick they use is to glue the twisted pairs together. This make them stiff. This is the one Blue Jeans is using. (A special version).   Still making a Faraday cage isn’t in their solutions. (Yes that’s the JSSG360). Another thing  Belden has is a very special plug. Not yet deployed in audio. The technology behind it make sense to me. 
 

Don’t forget your JS-2 is supplied with good DC cable as well. Remember Alex is the only person in the world having access to those DC plugs you’re getting. You can apply JSSG360 to those cables. In theory may be a better cable as more (lower) AWG. 

 

Hello, I ordered this ethernet cable to try in comparison with my wirworld Starlight.

https://www.ghentaudio.com/pc/et11.html

 

Yesterday from Canada I received two DC cables from Audio Sensibility for connecting my JS2 Uptone. I chose the copper version. I was happy with Belden cables but wanted cables 3 times shorter.

 

I am not a "convinced European" but I buy all over the world! I am a compulsive shopper :)

IMG_2243.jpg

IMG_2244.jpg

IMG_2245.jpg

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2 hours ago, LowMidHigh said:

 

In my case, the 2nd ER had much more profound impact than an LPS. Frankly, though the LSP brings something to the table, it rather subtle. 


Do you have two external clocks on each ER?

For my part I wanted to try to cascade my sotm switch to the etherregen but I did not want to create a ground loop because my sotm switch is powered by my JS2, which itself powers my cheap external clock Afterdark.

I am thinking about investing in a mutec ref 10 eventually due to the white paper published by John about having excellent square wave.

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8 minutes ago, MasterWarzombie said:

Audio Sensibility

Are they quad design. If not I will say it’s may not the best technological proven solution among the AS’s. 
Cryogenically treatment may be a very good solution. That’s another discussion. 

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6 minutes ago, MasterWarzombie said:

I am thinking about investing in a mutec ref 10 eventually due to the white paper published by John about having excellent square wave.


If you’re really planning spend that kind of money, you may get much minimum equal or better results with @AfterDark. top clock. Phase noise numbers speak by them self.  I can’t talk for future design, but to me it’s obvious that new products from Uptone should implement the conversion on the receiver side. (New like 2 to 3 years ahead. If external clock is ever an option). 

There isn’t any listings impressions as far as I know comparing a top expensive square wave clock vs a good sine into the EtherRegen. I suppose we talking about a 2K difference. 

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