The EtherREGEN thread for various network, cable, power experiences and experiments

[jos]

3 hours ago, crion said:

I actually have an Ifi IpowerX 12V on the Uptone Etherregen now and it was an improvement actually from the HDPLEX 200W I used previously IMHO and much cheaper. I'm awaiting the new HDPLEX 300W and will do a comparison then.

 

The chinese 4G 10MHz clock is here and I think that this actually seem in some way benefit my whole setup. I can't really explain it but it is like something is bringing coherence with perfect timing to both video and audio... I will put it on my new HDPLEX 300W when I receive it as well. Right now a 200W HDPLEX is running most of the network stuff.

 

I'm also awaiting a Shunyata CGC Sigma grounding cable for the ER and will then put the older Shunyata CGS10 cable on the chinese clock. Also the Shunyata Alpha clock v2 75Ohm is coming sometime. Right now using a frankenstein 75Ohm Neutrik RCA coax into BNC adapters. I'm guessing the comparison to Shunyata Alpha v2 clock 75Ohm wont' be fair. ;-)

I have the IFi ipower X too, at 9v. and it works fine. No need for an expensive LPS. I also ground it, but I really don’t believe that such an expensive Shunyata ground cable will make any difference in sound, IMHO.

[OldBigEars]

9 hours ago, crion said:

I actually have an Ifi IpowerX 12V on the Uptone Etherregen now and it was an improvement actually from the HDPLEX 200W I used previously IMHO and much cheaper. I'm awaiting the new HDPLEX 300W and will do a comparison then.

 

The chinese 4G 10MHz clock is here and I think that this actually seem in some way benefit my whole setup. I can't really explain it but it is like something is bringing coherence with perfect timing to both video and audio... I will put it on my new HDPLEX 300W when I receive it as well. Right now a 200W HDPLEX is running most of the network stuff.

 

I'm also awaiting a Shunyata CGC Sigma grounding cable for the ER and will then put the older Shunyata CGS10 cable on the chinese clock. Also the Shunyata Alpha clock v2 75Ohm is coming sometime. Right now using a frankenstein 75Ohm Neutrik RCA coax into BNC adapters. I'm guessing the comparison to Shunyata Alpha v2 clock 75Ohm wont' be fair. ;-)

 

Doesn't that make the ER run even hotter than the standard 7v PS?  It already gets quite hot....

[JohnSwenson]

2 hours ago, OldBigEars said:

 

Doesn't that make the ER run even hotter than the standard 7v PS?  It already gets quite hot....

No it doesn't, the amount of power the devices uses is independent of the supply voltage (within the specified range of 7-12V).

 

John S.

[crion]

Ok, I put a Shunyata Sigma CGC (Ag/Cu) 8 gauge ground cable on the Uptone Etherregen and connected it to a Denali 6000T groundterminal. I put the previous Shunyata CGS10 10 guage cable on the chinese clock.

 

What happened is that it unleashed Bass Power AND fidelity, more reality and presence of the sound. So as for an impact point of view, the two Shunyata GND cables was a bigger difference than the chinese clock itself. But the chinese clock did bring a soundstage coherence front to back which in synergy with the impact and presence boost of the two ground cables provided a substantial reality boost to the sound.

 

For the outlay in the grand scheme of things (total system cost) it was a fantastic bang for the buck.

 

[OldBigEars]

Minor tweak to my setup this evening....previously, my connection was straight from the nearest ethernet wall outlet via 1.5m Supra CAT8 to the ER A side.

 

As I have a spare Netgear ProSafe GS105, I ran the Supra to the Netgear switch instead of the ER, and then connected it with generic CAT6 to the ER.  The ProSafe has an iPower 12V PS.

 

I swear it's better. More relaxed, stronger bottom end.  Definitely keeping the ProSafe in the chain.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[acousticsguru]

44 minutes ago, OldBigEars said:

Minor tweak to my setup this evening....previously, my connection was straight from the nearest ethernet wall outlet via 1.5m Supra CAT8 to the ER A side.

 

As I have a spare Netgear ProSafe GS105, I ran the Supra to the Netgear switch instead of the ER, and then connected it with generic CAT6 to the ER.  The ProSafe has an iPower 12V PS.

 

I swear it's better. More relaxed, stronger bottom end.  Definitely keeping the ProSafe in the chain.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It may be that a generic CAT6 is unshielded, as indeed a Ethernet cable should be for audio, that makes the difference. Of course that'll work best in a (relatively) EMI/RFI-free environment, which in your listening room, you may have.

 

Greetings from Switzerland, David.

[OldBigEars]

2 hours ago, acousticsguru said:

It may be that a generic CAT6 is unshielded, as indeed a Ethernet cable should be for audio, that makes the difference. Of course that'll work best in a (relatively) EMI/RFI-free environment, which in your listening room, you may have.

 

Greetings from Switzerland, David.

 

Yup, I was thinking it might be something to do with that.  

[chungjh]

Even though it is normal for ER to run hot, it is hard to imagine that all that heat does not accelerate the degradation of ER over time. Heat is the enemy of electronics. What do you think?

[charlesphoto]

10 hours ago, chungjh said:

Even though it is normal for ER to run hot, it is hard to imagine that all that heat does not accelerate the degradation of ER over time. Heat is the enemy of electronics. What do you think?

 

Which is why I run small USB AC Infinity fans (just on low) over my Uptone/Sonore and network gear. 

[chungjh]

@Charlesphoto

 

That is a great idea.

[chungjh]

@Charlesphoto

 

Although the fan is quite small, it may cause vibrations that can affect components on the rack, no?

[jos]

13 hours ago, OldBigEars said:

 

Yup, I was thinking it might be something to do with that.  

You could also remove the shielding from the Supra at one or both ends and still have the superior shielding to the ER, whereby you also save on electricity and devices you could sell.

[charlesphoto]

2 hours ago, chungjh said:

@Charlesphoto

 

Although the fan is quite small, it may cause vibrations that can affect components on the rack, no?

 

Perhaps, but on low they are inaudibly quiet and have rubber(?) bumpers for feet and vibrationless as far as I can tell. These aren't Walmart builds. I'm sure you could isolate it even more with Herbie's etc material if so inclined, but best to make sure your components are first. I had an LPS 1.2 go on me this summer and my feeling is it may have been heat related (under warranty and repaired but no info on what was wrong) so got some of these fans after that. I have them both with the hifi upstairs and downstairs in the server closet. The one upstairs is powered by a wall wart (different circuit from the hifi) and downstairs via USB off the Roon NUC. 

[sgr]

I’ve implemented the Dual EtherREGEN setup. I believe it was worthwhile. Noise floor non existent. Great clarity. Images and soundstage expanded while being more precise. I’m not sure why one would buy a stack of Buffalo switches when two Etherregens look to be less expensive. 
But I’ve not heard a stack of switches yet. 

[Pokey77]

@charlesphoto

 

I just wanted to say thank you so much for sharing the photo of your audio rack with the AC Infinity fan used to cool the ER. I have bought two of the 120MM fans after seeing your photo and it is amazing what they can do. I run both on medium and now my power amp is near stone cold and the ER runs very cool, not really even warm. The ER has never run so cool but I'd imagine that this should extend the life of it very significantly. Now all the components in my rack run cool or barely warm.

 

@sgr

 

You may be worried about minor vibration from the AC Infinity fans, but I can attest that with the rubber damping  that is included with them, set to either low or medium, there is 0 (zero) vibration from them. On low I cannot hear them at the listening position and on medium I can barely hear them, but only when the room it totally quite, like at night. I can wholeheartedly recommend them and we have @charlesphoto to thank for that. BTW, prior I was using a 2lb door stop in an attempt to cool the ER, and the ER did transmit heat to the doorstop but I don't think it was appreciably cooler either - does work good to hold down the fairly light weight ER though. With the fans, the result is staggeringly good. I suggest you give them a try.

 

[chungjh]

I am looking for a recommendation for the grounding wire between ER and Paul Hynes SRT4. What is best and is the quality that critical?

 

 

[R1200CL]

29 minutes ago, chungjh said:

I am looking for a recommendation for the grounding wire between ER and Paul Hynes SRT4. What is best and is the quality that critical?

 

 

 

From user manual:

 

Use of the EtherREGEN’s Ground terminal screw:
We have measured high-source-impedance leakage on Ethernet cables coming from various other common network gear and computers. Leakage is common-mode AC current traveling over DC connections. It is pernicious stuff—passing easily along both analog and digital connections in our audio systems—and it is desirable to shunt it away. We address leakage in the design of the EtherREGEN in several ways, including our use of RJ45 magnetics having 12 tiny transformer
cores per port. And their center-taps are wired to ground and to the Ethernet switch chip through capacitors to maximally block port- to-port leakage. This works best if the EtherREGEN is grounded—either through the power supply or via the ground screw.
The DC output 0-volt/-VE (‘ground’/shell) of the UpTone-branded AC>DC power supply included with the EtherREGEN is common to AC mains ground. When our supply is used to power the EtherREGEN it is NOT necessary to use the Ground screw. [Do not assume that 3rd party linear power supplies are like this—some are and some are not. Some multi-rail supplies have separate diode bridges and transformer secondaries and thus each output ground is "floated.” This is easy to test with a continuity/multimeter (be sure power is disconnected.)]
If you power the EtherREGEN with a "floating" supply—one whose 0- volt/-VE (‘ground’/shell) is not common to AC mains ground—then ideally the Ground screw of the EtherREGEN should be used. You can do so by running an insulated wire safely to some AC mains ground or to the chassis of a known-grounded component in your audio system. [By the way, our UltraCap LPS-1.2 is a completely "floated" and isolated supply, so if using it with EtherREGEN the ground screw should be used.]
Please keep in mind that all of the above regarding grounding concerns only the blocking of leakage from one RJ45 jack on the ‘A’ side to another RJ45 jack also on the 'A' side. Regardless of grounding, zero AC leakage from upstream Ethernet devices ever gets past the full active digital isolation and reclocking ADIMTM—to the EtherREGEN’s 'B'-side port.

 

As the Paul Hynes SR4T is grounded, I wouldn’t do any further grounding. 
If I’m wrong, we should hear from Alex. 
 

Ops, I just learned I should be using the ground screw as I’m using the LPS 1.2. 
On the other hand since I’m only using fiber out on A side, I may not need. 

[charlesphoto]

@Pokey77 So glad you went for it. FTR the rec on the fans was from another member here but I can't recall who. I tried weights, heat sinks etc, but I have a feeling that they just allowed the heat to accumulate on the top of the device(s), possibly adding vs shedding. I currently have Herbie's SuperSonic Stabilizers on top of my 1.2 and oR and they seem to be doing something beyond just being a weight (they stick to the case almost like magnets). And after having an LPS 1.0 fry last year after a downed tree in the neighborhood hit a line, I now have iFi AC iPurifiers everywhere in the system; not only have they made the sound better, my hope is they'll surge protect (as advertised) another event like that. 

[Pokey77]

@charlesphoto

 

I wondered some time after I posted if it was you that posted the photo. I appreciate your noting it was another; nevertheless, thank you. BTW, I have one iFi AC Purifier in my system and am thinking of purchasing a few more. I just got this one maybe a month ago and I thought that it was making things better, now I wonder. So I just need a little time to test to make sure what I'm hearing. If I hear positive SQ improvement, I will probably buy around three more to plug into each of my dedicated lines and I suppose try them around the room to see if I get better results somewhere else besides on the dedicated circuits.

 

An update on the fans. I misspoke on how cool the ER is. It is actually running just slightly warm. But, as I stated before, it runs much cooler than it ever has - the AC Infinity fans work well for this purpose.

[charlesphoto]

@Pokey77 That was my photo, just not my original idea. :)

[chungjh]

Is anyone using vibration isolators for ER? Any difference?

[JohnSwenson]

1 hour ago, chungjh said:

Is anyone using vibration isolators for ER? Any difference?

I have mine on a 1/2" thick aluminum slab which sits on roller bearings from Ingress Engineering.  Over the last 5 years or so I have done a lot of experimenting and listening and this configuration gives the best results, particularly for digital devices.

 

The roller bearing are single base types, the machined aluminum base sits on the shelf with a ball bearing sitting on the base. The aluminum slab has polished stainless steel sheets (outdoor pocket "shaving mirrors" ) glued to the bottom (I use rubber cement) where i want the slab to sit on top of the balls.

 

This combination does a very effective job of blocking seismic waves from reaching the crystals in the oscillators. As far as I have been able to tell seismic waves (very low frequency waves in the ground, caused by ground heating and cooling and nearby trucks or trains) are one of the biggest contributors towards oscillator output contamination. These temperature change induced seismic waves are one of the reasons a lot of people like listening in the middle of the night, the ground temperature has stabilized thus produces much less intense seismic waves.

 

Unfortunately there is a correlation that the oscillators with the lowest phase noise also have the highest sensitivity to seismic waves, so measures like these can become quite important for very high quality digital systems.

 

A few words on the aluminum slab. The 1/2" thick aluminum plate has several very good properties one one bad property.

 

The good:

thick aluminum is a good absorber of higher frequency vibrations. It is good shielding both for electrical waves AND magnetic waves (thin aluminum sheets do not shield well from magnetic fields, but thick ones do). At 1/2" it is very rigid so provides a good base for dealing with the low frequency seismic waves. Sheet metal (particularly the case of most electronics) bends at these low frequencies significantly decreasing the effectiveness of the roller bearing

 

The bad:

thick aluminum "rings" like crazy. This after all is how wind chimes work. It turns out the ringing is caused by surface acoustic waves forming standing waves on the surface of the aluminum. Fortunately this can be damped out by things touching the surface, thus scattering the patterns and preventing standing waves. On the bottom this is the balls through the mirrors, for the top just putting your equipment on the top disturbs the waves enough to prevent the standing waves.

 

As to cost I just have Online Metals cut a piece of 1/2" aluminum to the size I want. The roller bearing from Engineering are not too bad. The mirrors are a couple dollars a piece from Amazon.

 

There are some issues with this system, number one is cables. The plate has to be free to move on the bearing, thus you need very flexible cables, "fire hose" cables will not work with this! If you put a device with a user interface (preamp with knobs, buttons etc) you don't want "stiff" controls, particularly push buttons or slides that take a lot of force. Rotating controls don't seem to cause a problem.

 

Because of the cable issue i wound up making my own very flexible cables for most things. The improvement in system sound is such a big improvement it was worth it trying to get flexible cables.

 

John S.

[Pokey77]

@JohnSwenson

 

Very interesting John. It would be helpful for us if you could provide a few photos to show how it all is put together, if possible of course.

 

@charlesphoto

 

So, I was able to do a few tests with the iFi AC Purifier today. I've concluded, in my system, that it seems to smooth the leading edges a bit, but air and ambience are refined and that cymbals sound more real and the midrange is also more believable. For me, the iFi does more right than it does wrong. So I'll pick up a few more and see if I can gain more sound quality.

 

I've purchased a Paul Hynes SR4T that is supposed to ship in a few weeks and so that is my next experiment. From all I've read, it will make a big improvement.

 

Just as an aside, I also tried plugging my TV network connection, using a Roku Streaming Stick, into the "A" side of the ER and after watching for picture quality and swapping the cable several times, I didn't really notice much improvement there; it seemed more or less the same. Some scenes seemed slightly improved while others seemed virtually the same and so I could live fine within out it being connected to the ER. But I did notice that the sound quality took a nice improvement, especially in the bass and the upper-end treble, air, and ambience. I did try unplugging the TV from the "A" side to see if having a second device plugged in caused any decrease in SQ for the audio system but did not find that to be at all noticeable. So plugging in my TV to the ER provided a nice SQ bump for me.

[ray-dude]

When I had my ER, I had it on a vibration isolation scheme very much like John's and it worked great for me.  In general, I find this scheme extremely impactful for digital electronics, DACs, and power supplies.

 

In my case, I ended up having a whole bunch of aluminum bowls machined in various geometries, and I experimented with lots of different polishing techniques and precision bearings.  In general, if you set the plate oscillating, the longer it oscillates the bigger the impact (direct correlation to SQ).  Makes mechanically optimizing things much more straight forward.  To give a sense of order of magnitude, I was able to get oscillation time from ~30 seconds to ~120 seconds

 

I currently use smooth ceramic tiles from Home Depot for my plates.  I like the idea of more mass with the 1/2" aluminum plates though.  I'll see if I can source a plate to compare to the Home Depot plates I'm currently using (thanks for the tip John!)

[MartinT]

3 hours ago, chungjh said:

Is anyone using vibration isolators for ER? Any difference?

 

I have mine on three Black Ravioli Pads.  Every part of my system is on either Pads or Big Pads.  The cumulative effect is significant.