The EtherREGEN thread for various network, cable, power experiences and experiments

[Superdad]

On 8/17/2020 at 3:49 PM, audiotunesx said:

Is PS Audio wrong that audio grade ethernet switches won't make a difference:

- Yes, given all testing was done on their dac/bridge.  This will end up being the same thing as their pre-amp stance a few years back.  I'll keep an eye out for a PS Audio $5,999 switch in a few years time.

 

LOL!

What's funny is that Bascom King (the "BK" of some PS Audio amps and preamps) owns and loves the EtherREGEN. We had a long tech chat on the phone a week after he installed it. He had all sorts of questions and was amazed at the effects. I then reminded him of Paul's complete dismissal of switches (in one of his Ask Paul videos) a few months back. He promised me he would have a "talk" with him about it. We have loads of happy DirectStream and DSjr users with EtherREGEN (plus many with even higher end Ethernet input DACs such as dCS, etc.). Certainly helps those inputs.

DAC inputs all ultimately go to I2S (USB>I2S, S/PDIF>I2S, Ethernet>I2S) so much less is in the way with an Ethernet-input DAC...

[TwinPeak]

I finally managed to connect my Ubiquiti X-SFP router to the audio network and EtherREGEN's SFP-port - by single-mode SFP's and a single-mode optical cable. Coached and instructed by user octaviars until everything was up and running. The trick was configuring the Ubiquiti's SFP-port setup (on browser)  - and swapping ends of the single-mode optical cable so that EtherREGEN's SFP was using Blue cable end (UPC) and Ubiquiti the Green (APC). Bingo!

 

So how does it sound? Well, in my system the internet connection via EtherREGEN is actually only for being able to manage my Mac Mini and EtherREGEN's attached devices (NAS, UltraRendu etc). But it did have an impact on sound quality: Blacker background, better female voices, more dynamics, especially in low frequencies and improved overall clarity - it sounds more like "analog".

 

The question is if the improvements I hear is caused by the absence of a "dirty" regular internet connection to EtherREGEN and A-side connected devices - or is it the galvanic isolated single-mode fibre connection? I listened for eventual "trade-offs" or something missing, but couldn't find anything. I will call it a great improvement.

PS! I have ordered a set of regular duplex SFP's and optical cable - just to be on the safe side...

[JohnSwenson]

4 hours ago, TwinPeak said:

I finally managed to connect my Ubiquiti X-SFP router to the audio network and EtherREGEN's SFP-port - by single-mode SFP's and a single-mode optical cable. Coached and instructed by user octaviars until everything was up and running. The trick was configuring the Ubiquiti's SFP-port setup (on browser)  - and swapping ends of the single-mode optical cable so that EtherREGEN's SFP was using Blue cable end (UPC) and Ubiquiti the Green (APC). Bingo!

 

So how does it sound? Well, in my system the internet connection via EtherREGEN is actually only for being able to manage my Mac Mini and EtherREGEN's attached devices (NAS, UltraRendu etc). But it did have an impact on sound quality: Blacker background, better female voices, more dynamics, especially in low frequencies and improved overall clarity - it sounds more like "analog".

 

The question is if the improvements I hear is caused by the absence of a "dirty" regular internet connection to EtherREGEN and A-side connected devices - or is it the galvanic isolated single-mode fibre connection? I listened for eventual "trade-offs" or something missing, but couldn't find anything. I will call it a great improvement.

PS! I have ordered a set of regular duplex SFP's and optical cable - just to be on the safe side...

There seems to be a bit of a misconception here, that the EtherREGEN is getting rid of noise coming in over the internet, this is not true, it is getting rid of noise coming from the networking equipment in your home: modem, router, switch, other devices connected to the network. This noise can exist even if you don't have any form of internet connection. The noise is a combination of leakage current from the SMPS powering the network equipment and phase noise coming from the cheap oscillators inside said equipment.

 

John S.

[bernardl]

I finally got my clock cable and was able to deploy a few days ago the following configuration:

- SonoreOptical module -> fiber -> EtheRegen -> Devialet 1000 Expert Pro CI

 

Additional considerations:

- I use as external clock a Cybershaft OP21A-D with external linear power supply connected to a Shunyata Everest power conditioner with a Shunyata Venom V14 Digital cable

- The clock cable connecting the EtheRegen to the Cybershaft is a Shunyata Sigma 75 Ohm

- The Cybersharft is configured in chassis grounding mode and is grounded to the Shunyata Everest which is my common grounding reference for the whole system (this is point is in fact pretty important soundwise)

- The EtheRegen is fed by a LPS-1.2, itself connected with a Shunyata Venom V14 Digital to the Shunyata Everest

- The EtherRegen is also grounded to the Shunyata Everest

- I have designed and had 3D printed in aluminium a special heatsink cradle enhanced with copper plates to help with heat dissipation of the EtheRegen and LPS.

 

The system has been up for a few days and is starting to sound pretty good. I am coming from a truly excellent Melco S100, I am interested in seeing to what extend the EtheRegen, with arguably the best possible supporting environment money can buy, will sound like in a few days relative to the Melco.

 

Btw, the cybershaft will also be used to clock a Mutec once I get the right power supply for it.

 

Cheers,

Bernard

 

[Michaelb4]

On 8/22/2020 at 2:31 PM, JohnSwenson said:

There seems to be a bit of a misconception here, that the EtherREGEN is getting rid of noise coming in over the internet, this is not true, it is getting rid of noise coming from the networking equipment in your home: modem, router, switch, other devices connected to the network. This noise can exist even if you don't have any form of internet connection. The noise is a combination of leakage current from the SMPS powering the network equipment and phase noise coming from the cheap oscillators inside said equipment.

 

John S.

I a really happy with my system:

Source: Roon Nucleus and Orbi Mesh Wi-fi,  Orbi Mesh Satellite,Etherregen

Streamer: Lumin U1

DAC: Bricasti M3

Amp:  Bel Canto e1x

Speakers: B+W 802d3

 

I purchased the Etherregen and inserted it between the Orbi Satellite and the LUMIN to “filter” out the noise from the satellite-thought that would be a large potential for noise. Happy with result. Reading about power supplies for Etherregen confuses me because I figured almost all the noise from the Etherregen power supply would be filtered out by the Etherregen before passing signal on to the LUMIN. 
 

Mike 

[robbbby]

So I just purchased an etherregen to go between my ubiquiti switch and roon endpoint which is a xeon computer running audio linux with a sotm usb card.

 

I started reading this thread to look for cabling advice, but after a couple hours I was only 1/3 of the way through and already so very, very confused between cat6a/cat7/cat8 cables, cables with metal connectors, fully shielded cables, different shielded types of cables on different sides of the ER, etc.

 

My switch is in the basement 65' away, it's just a regular cat6 I ran and terminated myself.  I've been looking on amazon for a better quality, pre-terminated cable to run.  And also a shorter 1mtr cable to go from ER to computer.

 

I will over the weekend continue reading through the thread when I have free time, but in the meantime is there anything that most people have agreed upon in terms of cable type and/or brand? I'd appreciate any extra advice or help while I slowly try and sort through this thread.

 

Thanks

 

 

[MarkusBarkus]

@robbbby You may have seen Blue Jeans Cable or BJC noted in your reading assignment. I have used them for cabling, as have many others. They are affordable and reliable. 
 

The site is a good source of info too. Service is fast and reliable.

[R1200CL]

2 hours ago, robbbby said:

And also a shorter 1mtr cable to go from ER to computer.

 

Many is happy with Supra cable. 
And you won’t go wrong with this one:

https://www.ghentaudio.com/pc/et11.html

 

Your 65 feet cable is probably OK, as long you terminated it correctly. 
You can use The OpticalModule > fiber > EtherRegen. Read The EtherRegen review. 

 

 

 

[ASRMichael]

Sablon Ethernet, it’s expensive but you’ll never have an itch to upgrade again. 

[PYP]

22 minutes ago, ASRMichael said:

Sablon Ethernet, it’s expensive but you’ll never have an itch to upgrade again. 

 

Are these available to demo?

[ASRMichael]

Ask Mark at Sablon, he usually has a demo cable. 

[soares]

2 hours ago, ASRMichael said:

Ask Mark at Sablon, he usually has a demo cable. 

I am sorry Michael, but I didn’t find the Sablon page. What’s the price of a Sablon 2020 panatela reserva? It’s this cable isn’t it?

Thank you Jorge

[ASRMichael]

56 minutes ago, soares said:

I am sorry Michael, but I didn’t find the Sablon page. What’s the price of a Sablon 2020 panatela reserva? It’s this cable isn’t it?

Thank you Jorge

http://sablonaudio.com
 

email Mark and ask for quote. 

[robbbby]

7 hours ago, R1200CL said:

 

Many is happy with Supra cable. 
And you won’t go wrong with this one:

https://www.ghentaudio.com/pc/et11.html

 

Your 65 feet cable is probably OK, as long you terminated it correctly. 
You can use The OpticalModule > fiber > EtherRegen. Read The EtherRegen review. 

 

 

 

 

I guess my other question is with cables that are fully shielded/grounded from tip to tip.  Are these ok from ER to computer?  I saw some people try and cut the shield on one end or tape over the metal connector. Others say it's ok because of how the ER is isolated?

Was any of this confirmed in the dozens of other pages of this thread?

[soares]

1 hour ago, ASRMichael said:

http://sablonaudio.com
 

email Mark and ask for quote. 

Thank you so much Michael! 👍

[JFHSQT]

My etherRegen is en route and should arrive Monday, barring any FedEx problems through Memphis with Hurricane Laura.

 

Anyway I had planned to use the eR from my Orbi satellite into my Naim Uniti Nova from the B port and my Orbi and Innuos from the A ports as suggested by Alex. 

 

However I am now considering making room for some additional boxes and would need to move my Innuos into another room, which means the eR will be only between the Orbi and the Naim. Since the Innuos will be in another room, would there be further benefit by running a second eR in that room from the router (A) and the Innuos (B)? Or is it far enough removed from the signal chain on the Naim that it wouldn't be a worthwhile investment?

 

In my case the Innuos (Zen MK III) is used only as a Roon Core and the Uniti Nova is the streamer/player. 

[sahmen]

I am just about to upgrade both my cable modem and my router, respectively, to the   MOTOROLA MB8600 DOCSIS 3.1 and the ASUS RT-AX3000 Dual Band WiFi Router. Would there be any special advantage in linking the modem and the router with an Audiophile RJ45 noise reducing cable, even if I have both an Etherregen and an optical module also linked in the chain downstream and feeding my Metrum Ambre streamer (Roonbridge)?

 

I should add that the idea of connecting the modem to the router with a noise attenuating RJ45 cable is not only meant to have some impact on these exclusively audio SQ dedicated components (such as the ER and OM), I am also thinking it might have some positive effect on other AV components in my house in general, components that are  hooked up to the router, but not to the chain in which the Etherrtegen and the Optical Module are located.  These are typical AV components such as my Oppo 203 Blu ray player, or my LG Oled TV, as well as some AV streamers such as Apple TV 4k, that are connected with them.  In other words, will a noise-attenuating audiophile RJ45 cable (connecting a modem to a router) also have an enhancing effect on the picture quality of a TV, a streamer, or blu ray blu ray player that are hooked up to the router, assuming that all of these components are plugged into power conditioners?

[R1200CL]

1 hour ago, sahmen said:

Would there be any special advantage in linking the modem and the router with an Audiophile RJ45 noise reducing cable

No, I dont think so. Use a good off the shelf 1 or 2 meter cable. 
And better power supplies on those units wouldn’t help either 😀

 

You could add a switch where your TV and those other things are. Even experiment with the etherRegen there, in order to buy a second one. 
 

You could also add an FMC after your router. Then fiber direct to a etherRegen or OM or anything that accepts fiber in, and have enough RJ45 plugs out at the TV area. 
 

Don’t expect to much. (Unless you’re going for a second etherRegen). There is another tread about etherRegen and TV. 
 

If you haven’t purchased the router yet, you may try to find one with SFP interface. 

[ASRMichael]

2 hours ago, sahmen said:

I am just about to upgrade both my cable modem and my router, respectively, to the   MOTOROLA MB8600 DOCSIS 3.1 and the ASUS RT-AX3000 Dual Band WiFi Router. Would there be any special advantage in linking the modem and the router with an Audiophile RJ45 noise reducing cable, even if I have both an Etherregen and an optical module also linked in the chain downstream and feeding my Metrum Ambre streamer (Roonbridge)?

 

I should add that the idea of connecting the modem to the router with a noise attenuating RJ45 cable is not only meant to have some impact on these exclusively audio SQ dedicated components (such as the ER and OM), I am also thinking it might have some positive effect on other AV components in my house in general, components that are  hooked up to the router, but not to the chain in which the Etherrtegen and the Optical Module are located.  These are typical AV components such as my Oppo 203 Blu ray player, or my LG Oled TV, as well as some AV streamers such as Apple TV 4k, that are connected with them.  In other words, will a noise-attenuating audiophile RJ45 cable (connecting a modem to a router) also have an enhancing effect on the picture quality of a TV, a streamer, or blu ray blu ray player that are hooked up to the router, assuming that all of these components are plugged into power conditioners?

Quite few members here using a modem, & Ubiquiti Edge X SFP, then Ubiquiti access point. Then you could use SFP on the Edge to EtherRegen SFP. Giving good isolating. 

[charlesphoto]

@sahmen No, not audiophile per se, but when I redid all the cabling with Blue Jeans Cable, from the coax in to the modem, Cat 6 to Airport Extreme router, and then again back to main 16 port Cisco switch, I thought it seemed to firm everything up, but kind of impossible to A/B so who knows, but it didn't cost much and the BJC is certified to work. Even if you only gain a half of a percent better sound, those percentages start to add up in the increasingly complex digital chain, and esp considering how much more EMI/RF there is in the modern household/urban setting (I hate to think what it's doing to our cellular structure so I don't). 

[R1200CL]

19 hours ago, robbbby said:

I guess my other question is with cables that are fully shielded/grounded from tip to tip.  Are these ok from ER to computer?

In general no. You should avoid any commercial cables with shield and metal plugs. Especially those that comply with a standard 😀
The audiophile Ethernet cables will all (AFAIK) not comply with the Ethernet standard when it comes to shielding.
 

You will find a lot of useful information on Belden webpage. Also Blue Jeans webpage. Belden technick to glue pairs (bounded) is special, and well explained as an example. Unfortunately their catsnake 1303E doesn’t use that technology. But I really don’t think it matters in a cable less than a meter. 
 

Cables suggested here is OK to use. Also those with metal plugs for better RFI/EMI as well as with shielding.
 

You have to read this as a start in order to understand the theory behind JSSG360. 
 

(JSSG = John Swenson Shielding Guidelines). 

If you purchase a cable with metal plugs, and a ohmmeter shows the plugs are connected, you have the recipe to creat possible unwanted issues. Further reading can be found searching AS. 
 

[thyname]

11 minutes ago, R1200CL said:

In general no. You should avoid any commercial cables with shield and metal plugs. Especially those that comply with a standard 😀
The audiophile Ethernet cables will all (AFAIK) not comply with the Ethernet standard when it comes to shielding.
 

You will find a lot of useful information on Belden webpage. Also Blue Jeans webpage. Belden technick to glue pairs (bounded) is special, and well explained as an example. Unfortunately their catsnake 1303E doesn’t use that technology. But I really don’t think it matters in a cable less than a meter. 
 

Cables suggested here is OK to use. Also those with metal plugs for better RFI/EMI as well as with shielding.
 

You have to read this as a start in order to understand the theory behind JSSG360. 
 

(JSSG = John Swenson Shielding Guidelines). 

If you purchase a cable with metal plugs, and a ohmmeter shows the plugs are connected, you have the recipe to creat possible unwanted issues. Further reading can be found searching AS. 
 

Ghent sells two Ethernet RJ45 cables, both listed as JSSG360. This means they would be OK for EtherRegen, upstream and downstream?

[R1200CL]

6 minutes ago, thyname said:

Ghent sells two Ethernet RJ45 cables, both listed as JSSG360. This means they would be OK for EtherRegen, upstream and downstream?

YES. 
 

The whole idea behind those cables as well as the DC cables was based on:

 

 

[R1200CL]

6 hours ago, JFHSQT said:

My etherRegen is en route and should arrive Monday, barring any FedEx problems through Memphis with Hurricane Laura.

 

Anyway I had planned to use the eR from my Orbi satellite into my Naim Uniti Nova from the B port and my Orbi and Innuos from the A ports as suggested by Alex. 

 

However I am now considering making room for some additional boxes and would need to move my Innuos into another room, which means the eR will be only between the Orbi and the Naim. Since the Innuos will be in another room, would there be further benefit by running a second eR in that room from the router (A) and the Innuos (B)? Or is it far enough removed from the signal chain on the Naim that it wouldn't be a worthwhile investment?

 

In my case the Innuos (Zen MK III) is used only as a Roon Core and the Uniti Nova is the streamer/player. 

Isn’t that Innuos already intended to go wireless ? (If reallocated)

(As my understanding is you only have wireless in your listening room).

Just wondering:

How much differ the Naim today between wireless and wired ?

[robbbby]

4 hours ago, R1200CL said:

YES. 
 

The whole idea behind those cables as well as the DC cables was based on:

 

 

Do you know the difference between the two Ghent cables? One is a cat6a made with belkin cable, other is cat8 made with linkway cable. They are both the same price. I’m a bit confused.