The EtherREGEN thread for various network, cable, power experiences and experiments

[octaviars]

5 minutes ago, Jud said:

Right, the outer JSSG360 shield isn’t connected, but without any reason to doubt I assume the inner Cat8 cable does have shields connected to the metal clad terminations.

 

No the inner shield and the outer sheild is connected togheter but not connected to the plug.

 

This is from Ghent him self.

 

"Regarding new CAT8 ethernet cable in JSSG360, certainly no shielding connected to metal plugs. 

JSSG or JSSG360 are in the same way, no shielding connected to metal plug.

 

Thanks,

Ghent"

[skatbelt]

31 minutes ago, octaviars said:

 

No the inner shield and the outer sheild is connected togheter but not connected to the plug.

 

This is from Ghent him self.

 

"Regarding new CAT8 ethernet cable in JSSG360, certainly no shielding connected to metal plugs. 

JSSG or JSSG360 are in the same way, no shielding connected to metal plug.

 

Thanks,

Ghent"

 

In my memory the JSSG360 principle is to connect the cable shield at one end to the metal housing of plug A while leaving the other end (the plug B side) not connected but - instead of this and via an extra lead/conductor - loop this end back to plug A. This to ground the shield and make it more effective / not capacitive while not acting as a transmitter between the two connected devices. I could be wrong though.

[skatbelt]

I found the original post about JSSG here and it to turns out that I was partially wrong in the post above. The shield doesn't need to be connected to one side to be effective. You will need the extra path from the one end of the shield to the other.

[Jud]

2 hours ago, octaviars said:

 

No the inner shield and the outer sheild is connected togheter but not connected to the plug.

 

This is from Ghent him self.

 

"Regarding new CAT8 ethernet cable in JSSG360, certainly no shielding connected to metal plugs. 

JSSG or JSSG360 are in the same way, no shielding connected to metal plug.

 

Thanks,

Ghent"

Well now I have reason to doubt. Thanks!

[sandston]

Jud

I have the monoprice CAT8. I dissected one last night and the shields are indeed connected at both ends. The procedure was quiet simple. Razor blade off the plastic sleeve. Cut the shield wire to the metal housing. I then removed the metal housing because I wasnt confident I could keep the wires from touching the housing. This was done with a pair of needle nose starting at the seam in the metal housing. Bend it away at both ends and it pops right off. This did indeed leave a bit of a loose connector. However these cable are inexpensive enough that I was not too concerned. This weekend I will hot glue the ends to avoid stressing the solder points. Its not pretty but if you want to experiment its pretty straight forward. 

Common sense tells me to connect the unconnected shield end upstream. 

[sahmen]

A few questions for anyone who can offer reliable help:

 

About Shielding :

 

1. So what kind of shielding or no shielding format is appropriate for the ER? So far I have used the Cable Matters Cat8, and a Monoprice generic ethernet cable whose specs I do not remember, and they have both worked fine. I may soon try DIY Supra Cat8 cables too with stock Supra Cat8 connectors, but I do not know anything about the shielding part and how it is to be configured, which is why i am asking. Do the Supra Cat8's come with the correct shielding configuration for the ER?

 

Optical modul + ER

 

2.  I am thinking of adding an optical module to the ER chain, to be set up as follows :

Asus Router==>> (copper ethernet)==>>Optical module==>>(optical ethernet)==>>(A side)Etherregen(B-Side)==>>(Copper ethernet) ==>> Metrum Ambre.

 

Would that work? 

 

Power supplies:

I shall be using the SGC 5v LPS with the Optical Module.  However, I also have the Uptone LPS 1.2 with which I can replace the Etherregen's SMPS or the OM's SGC LPS.  I am assuming the better approach would be to try the LPS 1.2 with the Etherregen. Good?

 

Power Supplies and possible noise leakage issues

I am hoping the use of these other LPS units would not reintroduce unwanted noise issues, anywhere in the chain. Sometimes, I use a Teradak LPS from china to energize the Uptone LPS 1.2.  I thought doing that improves the SQ of my ultrarendu, when it is being powered by the LPS 1.2. Now if I should energize the LPS 1.2 powering the ER with a similar Teradak LPS from China, would there be any noise leakage issues to be wary of?

 

Because I am no expert in all these DIY tweaks, I am trying to stay on the safer side by asking before attempting anything. I hope members would bear with me on this.

 

 

[soares]

5 hours ago, sahmen said:

 

2.  I am thinking of adding an optical module to the ER chain, to be set up as follows :

Asus Router==>> (copper ethernet)==>>Optical module==>>(optical ethernet)==>>(A side)Etherregen(B-Side)==>>(Copper ethernet) ==>> Metrum Ambre.

It works fabulously! 
Cheers Jorge

[t_ram]

On 1/23/2020 at 7:42 PM, MikePid said:

I’ve had the ER for just over a week and I’ve been really enjoying it. Tonight I just replaced the stock power supply with a spare SGC LPS I had lying around. Wow, the “ER factor” just went up by about 50%!  Super deep bass, better soundstage, etc.  Swapping the Meanwell back in shrunk the soundstage and added some spongeyness to the bass. And previously I thought the ER with stock PS was amazing already.  I’m using a Pangea 14SE MkII power cord into the LPS.  

What voltage is your SGC set to? Been thinking of trying one.

[lmitche]

11 hours ago, skatbelt said:

 

In my memory the JSSG360 principle is to connect the cable shield at one end to the metal housing of plug A while leaving the other end (the plug B side) not connected but - instead of this and via an extra lead/conductor - loop this end back to plug A. This to ground the shield and make it more effective / not capacitive while not acting as a transmitter between the two connected devices. I could be wrong though.

JSSG360 means the two shields are tied at the endpoints but otherwise floating and disconnected from anything else. JSSG360 is like JSSG in this regard.

[bos]

I have the EtherRegen in my system for about a month now and I am another big fan. It has been a revelation !

I am using the supplied power supply. After reading a lot about power supplies on this forum I am still undecided about purchasing a linear power supply. Any advice would be appreciated.

[Jud]

21 hours ago, sahmen said:

 

About Shielding :

 

1. So what kind of shielding or no shielding format is appropriate for the ER? So far I have used the Cable Matters Cat8, and a Monoprice generic ethernet cable whose specs I do not remember, and they have both worked fine. I may soon try DIY Supra Cat8 cables too with stock Supra Cat8 connectors, but I do not know anything about the shielding part and how it is to be configured, which is why i am asking. Do the Supra Cat8's come with the correct shielding configuration for the ER?

Whether the cable shielding is tied to the connectors (usually the case with Cat 7, Cat 8, and other shielded cables with metal connectors) doesn’t matter on the “downstream”/output side of the ER, as long as there is only one downstream/output cable.

 

On the “upstream”/input side, it is best not to have a cable with shielding tied to the connectors.

[Mike Rubin]

1 hour ago, Jud said:

Whether the cable shielding is tied to the connectors (usually the case with Cat 7, Cat 8, and other shielded cables with metal connectors) doesn’t matter on the “downstream”/output side of the ER, as long as there is only one downstream/output cable.

 

On the “upstream”/input side, it is best not to have a cable with shielding tied to the connectors.

This still begs the question that I raised above, so please consider this a bump.  I am using the ER B to A, with only CAT8 coming into the B side and only optical going out from the A side.  It sounds fine to me - still breaking in my $10 Monoprice CAT8, and it already seems an improvement over Blue Jean 6A to my ears - but I have no problem reverting to 6A if I am creating ground issues in the system.  Any thoughts? 

[Jud]

1 hour ago, Mike Rubin said:

This still begs the question that I raised above, so please consider this a bump.  I am using the ER B to A, with only CAT8 coming into the B side and only optical going out from the A side.  It sounds fine to me - still breaking in my $10 Monoprice CAT8, and it already seems an improvement over Blue Jean 6A to my ears - but I have no problem reverting to 6A if I am creating ground issues in the system.  Any thoughts? 

No problem on the output side.

 

On the input side, just think of electricity as flowing in a circuit (which of course it does). The connection through the Monoprice cable will allow the cable and the portion of the ER before the “moat” to be involved in the flow of leakage current. Whether this might make any difference in your system, I don’t know.

[Mike Rubin]

16 minutes ago, Jud said:

No problem on the output side.

 

On the input side, just think of electricity as flowing in a circuit (which of course it does). The connection through the Monoprice cable will allow the cable and the portion of the ER before the “moat” to be involved in the flow of leakage current. Whether this might make any difference in your system, I don’t know.

Thanks, Jud.  Sounds as though I probably should revert back to 6A in this application, just to be safe.

[Lucie]

3 hours ago, Jud said:

Whether the cable shielding is tied to the connectors (usually the case with Cat 7, Cat 8, and other shielded cables with metal connectors) doesn’t matter on the “downstream”/output side of the ER, as long as there is only one downstream/output cable.

 

On the “upstream”/input side, it is best not to have a cable with shielding tied to the connectors.

Sorry for my ignorance, but I can use some clarification.

After the shielding discussion I changed my Supra cat 7 cable with metal connectors (upstream) for a cheap cat 5e with plastic connectors. After these last couple of days I can safely conclude that the cat 5e is better. Small difference, but clear in good recordings. Slight increase in transparency. Due to the connectors, or to the cable?

Now I discovered that the connectors of my modem/router are all plastic (see photo). Am I right then, that the metal connectors as such can’t have a negative effect and that the difference in sound quality should be attributed to the cable?

 

 

[lmitche]

2 hours ago, Mike Rubin said:

Thanks, Jud.  Sounds as though I probably should revert back to 6A in this application, just to be safe.

You are probably better off listening to both cables and making a decision on cat 6a vs. cat 8. Star ground schemes are used by lots of manufacturers between components so having a grounded cable running into the ER 'A' side could have benefits. Given this, it is best to use your ears.

 

Over here Cat 8 between my wifi extender and server sounds better then Cat 6A. The LPS powering the extender is ground shunted. The LPS powering the server is floating so there is one path to ground carried through the cat 8.

[PYP]

In the listening thread  @Nikko1960  wrote about a thread on Roonlabs forum:  I simply cannot believe the moronic exchanges I have had over here, as a result of trying to spread some good news. Unbelievable!  I post a review towards the end of this thread. 

 

Some of us have commented that our spouse/significant other, who doesn't care about equipment and would rather we not spend $$ on new stuff, have heard an improvement.  How would the more vitriolic voices on that thread explain that?  I understand the skepticism (and welcome it), but a pre-judgement that something cannot work just doesn't make sense to me.  

 

It is true I don't understand the mechanics of copper ethernet, and so want to ask those who do:  What is the purpose of the additional shielding for the newer cables (cat 8, for example) that carry more data?   Put another way:  If it is all just bits, why the additional shielding?

[kennyb123]

I was able to hear the SOtM Ethernet cable compared to my Cable Matters CAT8 in my system this morning.  While the CM cable is a screaming deal, it was no match for the SOtM - and this was almost immediately apparent.  We listened to “Speak No Evil” from Wayne Shorter’s album of the same name.  Timbre was more dead on with the qualities one hears from a saxophone and trumpet passed along more faithfully.  Micro-dynamics was one of those qualities that was just more convincing with the SOtM.  I was surprised to even hear a more apparent sense of Shorter moving closer and then away from the microphone as he played.

 

A Shunyata Sigma demo cable should be on its way sometime soon.  At almost twice the price of the SOtM it better be a lot better.  If the additional cost isn’t justified I will pull the trigger on the SOtM and call it a day.  The improvements I heard were worth the additional cost over the CM cable - though I would certainly understand if others didn’t feel the same.  

[MikePid]

19 hours ago, t_ram said:

What voltage is your SGC set to? Been thinking of trying one.

Mine is a fixed 7v/15w.  When I get a chance, I’ll try the new LPS I upgraded my ultraRendu to, but it will mean temporarily using the stock SMPS for the ultraRendu so I can “A/B” the LPSs into the EtherREGEN.  The other LPS is about 3-4 times the price, but if it makes enough of a difference, I might have a SGC LPS for sale 😉

 

I was not expecting much of an improvement by replacing the stock SMPS with the SGC LPS, but I would say it is worth the upgrade because that LPS is not that expensive.  It does run hot with the EtherREGEN, but then it did with the ultraRendu too with no issues.  Power draw is comparable.

[skatbelt]

9 minutes ago, PYP said:

It is true I don't understand the mechanics of copper ethernet, and so want to ask those who do:  What is the purpose of the additional shielding for the newer cables (cat 8, for example) that carry more data? Put another way:  If it is all just bits, why the additional shielding?

 

The shielding (for individual pairs and overal) is to prevent electromagnetic interference so the cable meets its specs in terms of speed, bandwidth and distances for computer networking.

[Guidof]

On 1/23/2020 at 6:35 PM, Jud said:

Currently I have a cable modem connected to a router with Monoprice Cat 8; then the router connected to the ER with Monoprice Cat 6a with plastic connectors to avoid the "upstream" ground link to the ER. 

 

At some point probably between now and March, in place of the cable modem and router I will install a gateway (combined modem and router) with Wi-Fi 6 capability. https://www.netgear.com/home/products/networking/cable-modems-routers/cax80.aspx

 

Are shield-linked metal connectors required to achieve Cat 7 or Cat 8 specifications? Or to ask more specifically, does anyone know of any Cat 7 or Cat 8 cables with plastic connectors, or don't these exist? If they do exist, I might be interested in trying one between the gateway and the ER.

 

Jud: At the moment, I'm using monoprice CAT 6 (not 6a) with plastic connectors between ER and ultra RENDU. I could not find any monoprice CAT 6a with plastic connectors. Do you know a source? Thanks.

[HumanMedia]

6 hours ago, Jud said:

Whether the cable shielding is tied to the connectors (usually the case with Cat 7, Cat 8, and other shielded cables with metal connectors) doesn’t matter on the “downstream”/output side of the ER, as long as there is only one downstream/output cable.

Yes that is that is what John S. suggests as well.

 

however for whatever the reasons, (maybe not shielding related), my Cat6a with floating shield, sounds clearly better than the Cable Matters with tied shields from B side to Ultra Rendu. It’s the biggest improvement I have yet heard in my limited testing of ethernet cables.

 

Since Cable matters sound toxic to me, I might sacrIfice one and untie the shield at destination end at some time and see what difference that makes

[Mike Rubin]

49 minutes ago, lmitche said:

You are probably better off listening to both cables and making a decision on cat 6a vs. cat 8. Star ground schemes are used by lots of manufacturers between components so having a grounded cable running into the ER 'A' side could have benefits. Given this, it is best to use your ears.

 

Over here Cat 8 between my wifi extender and server sounds better then Cat 6A. The LPS powering the extender is ground shunted. The LPS powering the server is floating so there is one path to ground carried through the cat 8.

Thanks for responding.

 

One of the things I liked about the new Monoprice CAT8 (moreso than Cable Matters) was that it affected image width almost spectacularly in the few days it was in my system, which is attractive to me because my room’s layout and my speaker placement seem to box in the image.  I switched back to 6A just a few minutes ago and, immediate, I noticed the image return to its normal size.  That’s not the change I expected in CAT8, but I would gladly take it, even as a placebo, unless I am creating risk or problems elsewhere.

 

Each of these cables has been connected at one end to a plastic wall plate with CAT6 in the wall.  Its other end is connected to the ER’s metal B port.  The ER has the standard Uptone-branded SMPS powering it and the FMC connects to my rendu‘s optical port via fiber?  If the cable is metal tipped and grounded, what power issues am I facing if I use CAT8 rather than 6A for the ER in this application?

[Jud]

51 minutes ago, Guidof said:

 

Jud: At the moment, I'm using monoprice CAT 6 (not 6a) with plastic connectors between ER and ultra RENDU. I could not find any monoprice CAT 6a with plastic connectors. Do you know a source? Thanks.

 

https://smile.amazon.com/Monoprice-SlimRun-Cat6A-Ethernet-Patch/dp/B01BGV26L2/ref=sr_1_3?keywords=monoprice%2Bslimrun%2Bcat6a&qid=1580079782&sr=8-3&th=1

 

Various lengths and numbers of cables available.

[Guidof]

52 minutes ago, Jud said:

 

https://smile.amazon.com/Monoprice-SlimRun-Cat6A-Ethernet-Patch/dp/B01BGV26L2/ref=sr_1_3?keywords=monoprice%2Bslimrun%2Bcat6a&qid=1580079782&sr=8-3&th=1

 

Various lengths and numbers of cables available.

 

Thank you for such a quick response. Looking at this too quickly gave me impression that the plugs had metal jaws. My bad.