The EtherREGEN thread for various network, cable, power experiences and experiments

[MasterWarzombie]

Hi , I'm French .

I have been waiting for my next Etherregen ordered for almost 1 month. The wait is long.
I have owned a JS-2 Linear Power Supply for a year
I have 3 questions :
1- What is the voltage setting of the JS2: 7, 9 or 12 volts? thank you. Is there a "risk" if I climb too high?

2 - For the grounded cord, we plug it into etherregen but at the other end, we plug it into which product? A bluray player with a screw for example?
3 - For SFP modules, should I take a "generic"? is there a recommended model?

 

https://www.fs.com/fr/products/75326.html   ?

 with 

 

https://www.fs.com/fr/products/68296.html

 

with 

https://www.fs.com/fr/products/17237.html

 

 

merci

 

 

merci

[MasterWarzombie]

5 hours ago, GryphonGuy said:

 

 Voltages: People here have tried all three voltages, As long as you stick to the range of 7 to 12 volts there is no "risk" that you will damage the EtherREGEN. It is just a matter of sound preference if you can detect a change based on feed voltage. I, for example, settled on 9 volts. I haven't tried a different voltage since setting it months ago because I am happy. Some people report a lot of heat with the 12 volt setting but when complaints emerge of this nature, the guys at UA reassure the community that the components are only operating at approx 50% of their temperature tolerances so no damage will be done from heat.

 

As for fibre-optic cables, make sure you have cables with end-fittings that match the expected SFP transceiver endings. A very common connection is LC-LC meaning locking connection (I think). So for example, if you have LC-LC cable, your chosen transceiver should have LC-LC fittings on it.

 

Some people have said that they prefer single-mode cable, make sure if you select that type of cable that you select two single-mode transceivers. Likewise, I chose Multi-mode cable so I use Multi-mode transceivers.

 

Since the EtherREGEN does not restrict SFP transceiver brands or models, I would just get a module to match your transmission side (fibre-port on your switch may be restricted to a particular model of SFP transceiver according to the brand of the switch).

 

If you are going to need to convert electrical Ethernet to optical Ethernet and back to electrical Ethernet just to go to the EtherREGEN, I would reconsider that move unless you have a 10-30 metre distance to between your audio equipment. 

 

I hope this helps and warm regards

GG

Your answer is clear and precise. It helps me.

 

merci :)

[MasterWarzombie]

Having received my ER yesterday, I left it running overnight.
This morning I find it "very hot". It is quite confusing.

The ER is placed in an open place, alone.

I think I read that this hot thing is normal, but I didn't think it was so hot. By comparison, my Switch Sotm is cold.
Can we reassure him on this point? . The case is the heat-sink?

It is therefore advisable to always leave on

[MasterWarzombie]

I wanted to bring my experience with my ER on the "image" part

I wanted to experiment yesterday to plug my apple tv into port "B" of the ER.
I find that the image has clearly gained in fluidity and "sharpness". I do not explain why.

Do you have an explanation ?

[MasterWarzombie]

Hi , 

 

it seems that my Uptone JS2 cannot power at the same time my etherregen and an external clock?
this is also the case if my Uptone JS2 feeds my Etherregen and my streamer 200 ultra Neo. The latter is connected in ethernet on side B of the etherregen.

I do not understand and I am disappointed with it.

merci

[MasterWarzombie]

39 minutes ago, JohnSwenson said:

Hi Master,

The EtherREGEN contains a "moat" (electrical isolation) between the A and B sides (that is part of what makes it special). The power to the ER is connected to the circuitry on the A side. The B side gets its power from a very special isolating converter inside the ER.

 

The external clock connector is tied to the ground of the B side.

 

The two outputs of the JS-2 share the same ground (if they were isolated the cost would be at LEAST doubled and much bigger and much heavier)

 

These things taken together mean that powering both the ER and the external clock from the same JS-2 would tie the grounds together, shorting out the moat, allowing ground noise from the A side into the B side. The same thing happens when powering whatever is on the B side from the same JS-2.

 

You CAN use the same JS-2 to power an external clock etc, BUT you will loose some of the advantages of the ER. It's up to you.

 

John S.

 

 

I appreciate your feedback. I understand better now . I'm going to use a separate power supply for my etherregen and I'm going to power my External Clock with my JS2 which I love.

So I made a mistake because from the start I fed both my ER and my Sotm streamer with the JS2. I did not know .

Reassure me ! I hope I haven't "damaged" my etherregen with my initial branch.

I am going to buy a FARAD power supply in 12 volts or 9 volts to power my ER. The voltage does not seem to improve the sound however

Thanks again John

Laurent

[MasterWarzombie]

1 hour ago, ambre said:

 

Hi Ambre

you have like me a 75 ohm ER with an AfterDArk clock.
Do you think that an ER in 50 Ohm would be better to avoid using an adapter.
I limited myself to the Queen Square WAve version for that actually.

Are you going to try a 50 ohm ER?

[MasterWarzombie]

12 minutes ago, Superdad said:

I am very surprised to hear you say that you prefer an SFP copper transceiver versus the EtherREGEN’s RJ45 ports!  Those transceivers are terrible for a bunch of different reasons:

a) They cram in a cheap PHY—versus using the PHY right in our main switch chip;

b) The magnetics are nowhere near as good as the 12-core per port jacks we use;

c) The SFP port of the EtherREGEN is supplied with just a single 3.3V rail (provided by one of the 12 nice and expensive LT3045 regs we use in ER), but the chips in your copper>SFP transceiver need several other voltages—and I can assure you those are being derived from cheap DC-DC switching regulators sitting right on top of everything else in there;

d) Jitter performance of those modules is poor since they are also providing their own clocking for their PHY (main EtherREGEN clocking is not fed to the SFP port).

 

So while I am sure you hear some difference, you might want to listen again to judge if that is really better or just different.

SuperDad ,

 

So you do not advise to use SFP on your ER?
is it better to use an RJ45 cable on one of the A ports?

 

I already have an sfp etc module but I wanted to buy this reference from Afterdark?

 

https://www.adark.co/products/copy-of-uptone-etherregen-femto-switch-pre-order-enjoy-worldwide-free-shipping-tax-free?variant=31047093321846

You do not advise?

 

merci :)

 

Laurent

 

 

[MasterWarzombie]

@Superdadand your cat?

[MasterWarzombie]

4 hours ago, Duckworp said:

 I am trying to determine the best Ethernet cable between my EtherREGEN and my SOtM streamer and am getting so confused.  I read on here that unshielded is best but also see Supra is recommend. Yet Supra claims “double shielding” which seems to contradict the unshielding thing. Presumably they see shielding as a good thing. Would anyone have any understanding of what is best?  

Hi ,

 

I use a Câble Ethernet Wireworld Starlight Cat 8 between my ER et my Sotm SMS 200 ultra Néo .No problem.

 

Why do you need to use an unshielded cable?

[MasterWarzombie]

59 minutes ago, James Stephens said:

Hi there, this might be a good time to quote the User Guide:

 

"Regarding Ethernet cables: We are frequently asked for guidance regarding Ethernet cables to use with the EtherREGEN. This can be a controversial subject—by what means can an Ethernet cable affect the sound?—and absent objective evidence of variations, we will decline to recommend purchase of any fancy or expensive Ethernet cabling. Still, ultimate audio is a pursuit with many variables not yet fully understood. Not long ago few would believe an Ethernet switch could make a sonic impact—so we are open-minded about experimentation with network cables. However, there are some very real physical differences between certain Ethernet cables which can affect fine audio systems. Specifically, the shielding of Ethernet cables and if the wire shield on the cable is electrically connected to metal-shelled RJ45 plugs at both ends. For this explanation we will refer to such cables as “shield-tied.” It is desirable to avoid connection of multiple shield-tied cables into the RJ45 ports on the ‘A’-side of the EtherREGEN. This has nothing at all to do with data or signal quality. In fact, this recommendation is not even specific to the EtherREGEN. Ethernet cables having metal RJ45 shells and end-to-end connected shield wires will unite the grounds and zero-volt power domains of the equipment they are attached to. This provides a path for potentially detrimental AC leakage loops to form. If all you are attaching with such cables (on the ‘A’ side) are computer, NAS, and the feed from your main switch or modem/router, the leakage loops formed between that gear will likely be fairly benign. But if one of those components is somehow also connected to your audio/video system, you may introduce undesirable leakage currents. Keep in mind that the above is exclusively with regards to ‘A’-side EtherREGEN connections (or with standard switches). The ‘B’ side of the EtherREGEN is neither susceptible, nor can it become part of, ANY leakage loops. The ‘B’ side circuitry and port exist on their own entirely isolated power and ground domain. [Only the External clock BNC ground is common to the ‘B’-side ground-plane.] So if you have a fancy metal-shell shield-tied Ethernet cable, go ahead and use it on the ‘B’ side port for connection your DAC-attached streamer/renderer endpoint. This is the connection that matters most when using an EtherREGEN anyway: If you are going to hear a difference with an Ethernet cable, it will more likely be with the ‘B’-side cable. This is also a good one to keep short."

 

Best,

James

We no longer know what to think!
Once you can't connect a shielded cable from the side, another time you can!

The Etherregen starts to be complicated for the connection to avoid problems because you need 15 different power supplies, shielded cables or not!
I powered my external clock and my ER with my JS2. You cannot to avoid problems.
Now I read that you cannot connect a shielded ethernet cable to side B.
Suddenly, I'm not going to plug anything into my ER and plug everything into my Sotm switch because it just becomes complex for a product supposed to be easy to use!

[MasterWarzombie]

 

OK folks. If I understand correctly, all internet cables with TELEGARTNER plug are to be avoided. I thought I read that John indicated that if the elements are connected to the same power socket, it is not a problem IF you have a quality unshielded cable, I am the buyer.

[MasterWarzombie]

2 minutes ago, R1200CL said:

Here is a good cable:

https://www.ghentaudio.com/pc/et11.html

 

it is shielded so it is not a good cable. I'm teasing . My Wireworld cable has the same connectors.

 

same : 

https://www.adark.co/products/afterdark-constellation-cfs-cat7-telegartner-mfp8-edition

 

it is however recommended by @ AfterDark

[MasterWarzombie]

1 hour ago, JohnSwenson said:

Hi Master,

these things discussed here such as ground loops and leakage loops are things that are likely to already be in your system. These cause various sound quality degradations. The ER is designed to radically decrease these effects on your system. Unfortunately some system configurations prevent the ER from being fully effective. The ER tackles other problems that aren't related to this at all and those are still working even if you violate every rule in the book.

 

The ER does not cause these issues, it is there to prevent them. Non of these configurations stop your system from working, they just mean you will not be getting all the possible benefit you could from the ER. Even if you do not get the configuration "perfect" you will STILL get significant improvement from the ER.

 

These things along the lines of "you can't do this" or "you have to do this" are in regards to these configuration issues that MAY make a small increase in the effectiveness of the ER. For example some "rule" designed to prevent ground loops will only make a difference IF your internal wall wiring and your wall connections of all your gear will cause a ground loop in the first place. If your system will not produce a ground loop, then "violating the rule" will not make any difference. If your system is such that ground loops can happen, then violating the rule which relates to ground loops, probably will mean your sound quality will not be as good as it possibly could be, but it almost certainly will be significantly better then if you didn't use the ER at all.

 

My recommendation is not to get caught up in getting the configuration perfect straight off, but  hook it up in a reasonable manor, let things burn in, listen a lot, then if you wish, slowly try different configurations until you find what works the best in your system.

 

HAVE FUN,

 

John S.

 

Merci @JohnSwenson;)

If the equipment is connected to the same Gigawatt power strip for example or the same power conditioner, that does not solve these possible concerns ground loops and leakage loops?

I understand that the quest for the perfect audiophile is fraught with pitfalls.

[MasterWarzombie]

Delivery tomorrow of my first Farad to supply the etherregen. So I chose 9 volts which will allow me to test on my other Sotm products which are all 9 volts.
I chose with a direct orange SR fuse! and the reference cable from the Farad retailer in France.
I also ordered the DC Level copper cable from FARAD.

To be continued

[MasterWarzombie]

@Superdad

 

I have no doubts about the intrinsic quality of the Farad but I find my Uptone JS2 to be of higher class. I just wanted to avoid powering my ER and my clock with the same power as recommended

 

and your cat?

 

Laurent

[MasterWarzombie]

5 minutes ago, fuzzypoodle said:

 

Strange .... When I got the new Farad few weeks ago, the upgraded tube was already installed from the factory.

my farad was bought in France by a reseller. This is an option.
On the FARAD site, if you choose the SR option, Farad can mount it directly

[MasterWarzombie]

1 hour ago, Oggo said:

@Superdad:

 

Hi Alex,

 

As I remember, you and John recommended good short cables for connecting a separate clock-device to the Etherregen. We all know, you don't recommend certain cable brands, but let me ask you some spec-facts. What types would you choose?

 

- max. length: 30 cm / 50 cm / 100 cm / > 100 cm / DNM (= "does not matter")

- connectors: RCA-cable (interconnect) with BNC-adaptor / "coax-digital cable" with soldered BNC-connectors / DNM

- connector-fitting: soldered / soldered with "silver-solder" / screwed / crimped / DNM

- conductors: silver / silver-plated copper / OCC / OFC / DNM

- conductor layout: solidcore / braided / DNM

- cable-shielding: "standard" coaxial shielded / antenna-cable type shielded / JSSG360 / unshielded / DNM

- any more specs? / DNM

My Oyaide DB 510 is burning in (300 hours); it's silver.
Impeccable quality of finish, Oyaide connector (the same as those supplied with the JS2).
I like the association with my external clock / ER.

[MasterWarzombie]

2 hours ago, R1200CL said:

@agladstone

So many questions 😀

I think you more or less know what I’m thinking is good cables in general. 
I rather prioritize good DC cables, as this is well proven to to have a good effect (yes JSSG360), over expensive ethernet cables.

 

I’ve studied Belden website a lot. One can learn something about ethernet cables there. I have an idea of what would be the ultimate ethernet cable based on Belden technology. It would be an extremely stiff cable. 
One of the trick they use is to glue the twisted pairs together. This make them stiff. This is the one Blue Jeans is using. (A special version).   Still making a Faraday cage isn’t in their solutions. (Yes that’s the JSSG360). Another thing  Belden has is a very special plug. Not yet deployed in audio. The technology behind it make sense to me. 
 

Don’t forget your JS-2 is supplied with good DC cable as well. Remember Alex is the only person in the world having access to those DC plugs you’re getting. You can apply JSSG360 to those cables. In theory may be a better cable as more (lower) AWG. 

 

Hello, I ordered this ethernet cable to try in comparison with my wirworld Starlight.

https://www.ghentaudio.com/pc/et11.html

 

Yesterday from Canada I received two DC cables from Audio Sensibility for connecting my JS2 Uptone. I chose the copper version. I was happy with Belden cables but wanted cables 3 times shorter.

 

I am not a "convinced European" but I buy all over the world! I am a compulsive shopper :)

[MasterWarzombie]

2 hours ago, LowMidHigh said:

 

In my case, the 2nd ER had much more profound impact than an LPS. Frankly, though the LSP brings something to the table, it rather subtle. 

Do you have two external clocks on each ER?

For my part I wanted to try to cascade my sotm switch to the etherregen but I did not want to create a ground loop because my sotm switch is powered by my JS2, which itself powers my cheap external clock Afterdark.

I am thinking about investing in a mutec ref 10 eventually due to the white paper published by John about having excellent square wave.

[MasterWarzombie]

2 hours ago, MartinT said:

 

All SR fuses generally lose some edge and deepen and widen their soundstage with improvement in the presence region.

 

I have a mixture of Orange, Blue and Red in my system, all good in different ways.

 

I have an orange fuse on my farad which feeds my etherregen as soon as the farad is purchased.
I don't know if the farad without the sr Orange fuse sounds different, but I find without any poetry that the music is more spacious, open.
it's a good combo.

I have for a short week a KECES P8 on which I can change the fuse. However I do not know which one to put.

[MasterWarzombie]

2 hours ago, Mouna said:

can you please share your experience with the Keces 8 compared to the Farad... for me the Keces thickens the sound in the Bass and middle area compared to the Farad which sounds even on all levels bass middle highs....

My Keces power my Roon Nucleus Plus (19 V) and my Sotm streamer (9V) and my Farad (9V) feeds the etherregen. I have only tried to swap to make an objective comparison.
However, I would like to try FARAD on my streamer but I don't want to break my current listening quality.
All my elements are in place. I now want to enjoy the choices I have chosen.
My next upgrade will be to replace my Chord Qutest dac with a Chord Hugo TT2 to listen to music with headphones

[MasterWarzombie]

@R1200CL

I followed your previous advice.
Two days ago I received a Belden 1303E CAT6A Ethernet cable (JSSG360) to put it between my etherregen output B and my streamer

I also received to connect between my roon nucleus and my Keces P8 a Gotham GAC-4/1 11301 UltraPro Star Quad DC (JSSG360) cable.
I hesitated with the Neotech UPOCC 7N Copper 16AWG DC (JSSG360).

Your valuable opinion on the last two cables?

[MasterWarzombie]

I read that @Superdaddo not advise to put an ethernet filter between the output B of the etherregen and the audio streamer.
After several tries and tests, I had the opposite effect. My sound is definitely better on my test playlist with my SOtM ISO CAT 6 filter.
configuration. I don't explain why !

ER B> Belden 1303E CAT6A Ethernet cable (JSSG360)> SOtm Iso CAT 6 filter> SOtM dCBL-CAT6 HG cable 20 cm> Streamer SOtM 200 ultra Neo.

[MasterWarzombie]

5 hours ago, R1200CL said:

Link ? Gent ? 

https://www.ghentaudio.com/part/dc-gac4.html

 

https://www.ghentaudio.com/part/dc-7n16c.html