The EtherREGEN thread for various network, cable, power experiences and experiments

[simon_pepper]

A square cork pad underneath (my EtherREGEN is behind my Audio racks, on the floor, so the cork pad provides some insulation and isolation) and a Herbie Audio SuperSonic Stabilizer on top.

 

Have a SuperSonic Stabilizer on top of the UltraRendu as well.
Also the same type of square cork pad is underneath the NUC running ROCK, as well.

[simon_pepper]

3 hours ago, Superdad said:

SGC imports the Zerozone units. The 50W you refer to is a 7V version of this one:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32881325799.html
Output impedance of those supplies is nothing to write home about.

Well I have a twin output 25W supply configured for 12v & 5v rails (https://www.ebay.ie/itm/111975719251) with the 12V for the EtherREGEN, without issue.
I had the supply pre-EtherREGEN using it for different Netgear & Cisco 5-port switches, so just swapped in the EtherREGEN and enjoyed the benefit with my Naim NDS, in a Roon system with SonoreUPnP bridge running on a UltraRendu with UltraCap LPS-1
 

Is the effect on the power supply on an EtherREGEN that critical?

[simon_pepper]

1 hour ago, Superdad said:

 

No it is not. Or at least not near as critical as it is for other types of devices such at the Rendus--which really respond wonderfully to power supplies with extremely low broadband output impedance.

 

(And the EtherREGEN draws just 0.8A at 12V, so not a problem for even your inflated-wattage-spec Chinese supply. Even if the voltage droops a bit (owing to perhaps what you have connected to the other rail), that would stay within the EtherREGEN's range, even if the current draw creeps up a bit as the voltage drops down.)

Well the twin supply is two separate supplies in a single case, separate transformers and regulator circuits, plus there is only a Chromecast (for Roon display) & a LED turntable light on the side, so a few mA’s.

 

Other than the one supplied, does Uptone have a recommendation as enhanced supply for the EtherRegen?

[simon_pepper]

2 hours ago, kennyb123 said:

This is what I’ve been thinking.  
 

I didn’t believe it possible that the Super3 could have the same impact as the ER itself, which is why it took me so long to shell out the dollars.  @Lucie got it exactly right though - the impact is at least as significant as the ER itself was.  

And this the 12v Super3 version?

[simon_pepper]

2 hours ago, kennyb123 said:

 

I should also mention that the Super3 powering my ER did not include either of the options (Orange fuse, Furutech Rhodium AC Inlet).  An Orange fuse is to be delivered today, but it's targeted for the Super3 powering my TT2.  

So the base model.

[simon_pepper]

41 minutes ago, audiotunesx said:

I don't have an external clock to experiment with, so I strongly encourage the design of a ClockREGEN!

But then there will a power supply choice and DC & CLK signal cabling for ClockREGEN! 😄

[simon_pepper]

On 7/3/2020 at 9:21 PM, sandervdp said:

After enjoying the EtherRegen for more than 6 months now, have decided to go ahead and order a second one

The EtherRegen has so dramatically increased the enjoyment I get out of my set music, that it's worth seeing what another one upstream might do

 

See below for my system setup. The EtherRegen will replace the Netgear in this setup. Any ideas on how the moat should be crossed? Cable modem on the b-side, everything else (oppo, mac mini, apple tv, downstream etherregen) on the a-side? That should isolate it from the rest of the network most, right? And the second etherregen will create another moat to isolate the streamer from the server/etc. Is that correct?

And is it worth experimenting with fiber in between the etherregens? 

Also happy to hear any other suggestions for experiments

Given that your current EtherREGEN is only connected to your networked DAC, on a A-B port configuration, you could replicate that on an upstream EtherREGEN, with the 4 Gigabit ports used for Modem, Oppo, ATV and MacMini, with the B port @ 100Mbps serving the ‘downstream’ EtherREGEN. This would give double isolation but maybe not double the SQ return.

 

Have you tried moving the EtherREGEN upstream to replace the Netgear, and feeding the DAC on the B port from the 10M Ethernet cable? The EtherREGEN has enough Gigabit A ports for the Router, ATV, Oppo and MAC Mini.

 

As suggested you could replace the 10M connection from Netgear to EtherREGEN with optical, either using a Sonore Optical Module or a switch with 4 Gigabit ports and 1 STP for optical.

You could use a EtherREGEN here to, but you won’t be using the B port & MOAT.

 

Another suggestion is, can your ISP provided Modem/Router operate in ‘Pass through’ mode and replace the Netgear with a Commerical grade VPN WAN router (and maybe one with a STP port). This would take out the router function in the ISP provided equipment.

 

However I do feel that you had 

[simon_pepper]

13 hours ago, simon_pepper said:

However I do feel that you had 

Sorry, missed off the end

 

However, I do feel that you had the best improvement from the EtherREGEN in front of your DAC/Streamer. Yes, you can maybe get more, it will be fractional incremental improvements.

[simon_pepper]

Ok, so try a derivation of this one, with the Farad Super3 on the dedicated Power Circuit powering the EtherREGEN.

The JS-2 is still on the MacMini, and maybe the now spare 12v that was on the EtherREGEN on the ISP Modem/Router, thar just so it doesn’t go to waste!

[simon_pepper]

And I got a better picture from the ATV when plugged into the A ports of the EtherREGEN

[simon_pepper]

1 hour ago, sandervdp said:

 

Hi Simon, thanks for this suggestion,  but not sure how to pull that off. There's only 1 outlet on the dedicated power circuit, which is roughly 10m away from the mac mini/oppo/atv. And the router is another 25m away from that location

Ok, then try just the Farad Super3 into the same circuit as the JS-1, but powering the EtherREGEN, with no Netgear used, and all A ports used, and the B using the 10M cable to the DAC frontend.

[simon_pepper]

Interesting - attached is the datasheet for the Halo FastJacks - is this device just two of these back to back?
Is the filtering purely just based on the magnetics included in these?

 

fastjack-gigabit.pdf

[simon_pepper]

42 minutes ago, One and a half said:

By using effectively four of the Halo, there's then considerable hammering of noise, begs the question what if there were 8 in the chain..I'm not at home to find out. 

The diagram was for one of FastJacks, in each DX filter there are 2, so 8 per unit, and DX recommend using a pair of units.

[simon_pepper]

Me, just send you a DM

[simon_pepper]

On 5/31/2020 at 9:33 PM, Superdad said:

 

No it is not. Or at least not near as critical as it is for other types of devices such at the Rendus--which really respond wonderfully to power supplies with extremely low broadband output impedance.

 

(And the EtherREGEN draws just 0.8A at 12V, so not a problem for even your inflated-wattage-spec Chinese supply. Even if the voltage droops a bit (owing to perhaps what you have connected to the other rail), that would stay within the EtherREGEN's range, even if the current draw creeps up a bit as the voltage drops down.)

I have been using this ZeroZero twin LPS Power Supply 12v & 5v, with the 12v for the switch in my ‘frontend’ components (Naim NDS, UltraRendu/UltraCap LPS running the SonoreUPnP Bridge, RPi2 running Asset UPnP server), initially with a Netgear 5-port, then a Cisco 5-port, then in November ‘19 the EtherREGEN (huge improvement).

 

I have, nearly 2-years later, now added a Ldovr Dual stage regulation stage on the output of the ZeroZero PSU and input into the EtherREGEN. So the voltage into the EtherREGEN dropped from 12v to 10v, with the dual stage regulation, incorporating some 6 LT3045 regulators. The additional cable from the Ldover unit to EtherREGEN is a MCRU Silver DC cable (I use the same on the UltraCap LPS into the UltraRendu).

EtherRegen remains earthed, via a solid silver cable into my Russ Andrews PurifierBlock 8-way Mains distribution unit, which has a earthing post.

 

It is like some further layers of hash have been removed, with improvements to the bass, upper end, separation, and transients. This will keep me happy for some time!

[simon_pepper]

46 minutes ago, JohnSwenson said:

Part of the issue here is the 2960s we buy are used, thus we have no idea how the previous owner configured it. My 2960G has the same issue you have, but the 2960 100Mb model DOES connect on the SFP. This has got me intrigued now so I'm going to try and see what is going on with mine. (I'm building a prototype of a new (undisclosed) product today).

John, Having been using the EtherREGEN since Nov 2019 with wired connections, is the use of SFP+ units with Fibre and an associated Media convertor to substitute the Ethernet ‘In’ into the A ports, worth the change & additional components on the output coming out of the B port?

Not unhappy with what I have, in fact completely happy, just wondering whether a fibre break will give anymore?

[simon_pepper]

5 hours ago, Abolive said:

I want to separate the audio network from the rest; can I use the routeur in my ISP box or should I go for a separate one?

Can you ISP supplied router be put into “Modem Mode”?

If so, do so and invest in your own VPN/Firewall Router rather than using the switch in the ISP equipment.

 

I use a Cisco RV340 unit as it support 1G WLAN, and before that had a RV180 with 800 Mbit/s supported.

 

Then use a separate WAP for the provision of WiFi, and could now introduce WiFi 6E provision. 

[simon_pepper]

1 hour ago, Abolive said:

Can I think I have to split the network via the box, or install a routeur between the box and the 2 switches. Am I right?

The current ISP provided box, just becomes a modem, and yes you need another a box, which is the Firewall, DHCP server and NATing device, but with the throughput to support an effective network.

[simon_pepper]

36 minutes ago, Abolive said:

Regarding the Nuc, is it advisable to plug it upstream or into the eR?

Depends on where it is located. You could keep in the Garage and plug it into the switch there. Or if closer to the eR into the A ports.

I personally keep general computing devices away from ‘frontend’ components.

I see my eR as part of the frontend

[simon_pepper]

Ok,

I have had my EtherREGEN since Nov '99 feeding my Naim NDS/555DR Network player from Port 'B', with a wired 'downstream' feed into Ports 'A' . Also on Ports 'A' are connections to UltraRendu/UltraCap LPS for SonoreUPnP Bridge (also a USB output, but not used as USB->S/PDIF through XMOS U208 convertor into the Digitial input isn't as good as the UPnP input), a RPi2 running Assset UPnP server as a backup and an AppleTV (PQ was improved through wired connection into the EtherREGEN).

EtherREGEN is now powered by a Farad3 with Level2 silver wiring, Orange fuse, Farad mains cable, with a Ground wire to a Earth post on a Russ Andrews Mains distribution block.

 

So next steps - what's best at this point, in terms of cost/value/return?

1a. Move the wired input to Fibre, through a Media convertor using STP devices, moving the input into Port 'A' to be isolated electrically. I have a 5V LPS for the RPi2 that would also cover the Media convertors, so an additional PSU is not required.

I would look to use the Finisar SFP 1G Single Mode modules (FTLF1318P3BTL) with a length of Single Mode Fibre.

 

1b. Move the wired input to Fibre, as above, but using STP+ devices, but only at 1G rate. I would look to use the Finisar SFP+ Single Mode SFP Modules - are these worth the higher cost for the unused 10G capability?

 

2. External Clock for the EtherREGEN. This would just be feeding the EtherREGEN as there is no external Clock input on the NDS Network player.

a. The simplest option seems to be a LCY OCK-1 with built-in PSU and 75ohm output (as EtherREGEN is a standard 75ohm model), then experiment between Square wave and Sine wave outputs, either directly through the Mini-Circuits filter.
b. There is the more expensive LCY OCK-2 version with potentially better PSU and more outputs (which I don't need) and switchable output (which I don't need) but is the OCXO better to begin with?
c. Or an AfterDark Clock, however anything better than the 'Prince' level gets much more expensive. And Square Wave or Sine wave output? Plus an additional Power supply is required.

d. Or a CyberShaft Clock - however entry price Silver is expensive, and still requires a Power supply as well.

Not sure I want to embark on a DIY option using a BG7TBL board, as this seems to be hit/miss in terms of supply.

 

Or just leave alone, as it sounds great and stop looking to mess around 😃

[simon_pepper]

11 hours ago, MartinT said:

 

The BlueOptics BO35J13610D is an SFP+ module, well lauded in networking circles.  The Cisco SFP-10G-AOC5M blows it away in sound quality, and I don't mean by a small margin.  Where the BO sounds cold, hard, analytical with a really harsh edge, the Cisco is 3D, lush, incredibly dynamic and with bass to die for.

Thanks Martin,

I have a Farad3 with Level2 Silver cable on my EtherREGEN.

So, based on your experience is my next project, either an external clock or fibre optic input to next improve streaming performance?

 

I have been looking at OXCO several units on eBay, however I decide to hold off until I get get an AfterDark unit, with a known performance.

For the Fibre optic based input I need a Media convertor and then a Cisco AOC cable with the STP+ modules built-in.

 

My feeling is to the OXCO route, given the level of galvanic isolation already provided on the A ports of the EtherREGEN.

 

Thanks,

Simon

 

 

[simon_pepper]

24 minutes ago, MartinT said:

 

I agree with that, the external Afterdark clock will give you more bang to start with.  Don't skimp on a good power supply for it.

Thanks

 

There is a new AfterDark unit with a built-in LPS supply, that will be perfect.

Phase Noise specification depends on Price, so need to alllocate some budget, now I have finished the Headphone & Amp upgrade.