The EtherREGEN thread for various network, cable, power experiences and experiments

[TwinPeak]

I finally managed to connect my Ubiquiti X-SFP router to the audio network and EtherREGEN's SFP-port - by single-mode SFP's and a single-mode optical cable. Coached and instructed by user octaviars until everything was up and running. The trick was configuring the Ubiquiti's SFP-port setup (on browser)  - and swapping ends of the single-mode optical cable so that EtherREGEN's SFP was using Blue cable end (UPC) and Ubiquiti the Green (APC). Bingo!

 

So how does it sound? Well, in my system the internet connection via EtherREGEN is actually only for being able to manage my Mac Mini and EtherREGEN's attached devices (NAS, UltraRendu etc). But it did have an impact on sound quality: Blacker background, better female voices, more dynamics, especially in low frequencies and improved overall clarity - it sounds more like "analog".

 

The question is if the improvements I hear is caused by the absence of a "dirty" regular internet connection to EtherREGEN and A-side connected devices - or is it the galvanic isolated single-mode fibre connection? I listened for eventual "trade-offs" or something missing, but couldn't find anything. I will call it a great improvement.

PS! I have ordered a set of regular duplex SFP's and optical cable - just to be on the safe side...

[TwinPeak]

A month ago I changed my network setup, integrating a Cisco 2960 (second hand) into the mix. After multiple attempts, I finally succeeded to hardware reset the Cisco so that the high speed ports (RJ45 + SFP) got activated. I got a set of Cisco compatible SFP's form eBay and a 1 meter duplex multimode optical fibre. I connected Mac Mini and NAS disk to Cisco's 100 mbps ports and optical to EtherREGEN SFP port. Internet is provided by a long stretch of Supra Cat8 cable coming from my Ubiquiti X-router. Previously Mac Mini, NAS disk and internet was connected to EtherREGEN's A-side. I also experimented with SFP and optical between Ubiquiti X-router and EtherREGEN, but to me - the Cisco SFP connection sounded even better.

After a week letting the new combination settle, this network setup was a game changer! Better dynamics, a huge soundstage, improved lower midrange and bass and a slight increase in volume (!?). The single optical (SFP) connection to eR A-side has also reduced EtherREGEN's surface temperature during playback, from 40+ degrees celsius to 30+ degrees celsius. ER's B-side is connected to Sonore UltraRendu with a 0.5m Sablon ethernet cable.

:// Enclosed is a PDF with my current setup.

My SetUp 2020-v11.pdf

[TwinPeak]

Until yesterday my EtherREGEN drew its power through a Y-cable attached to one of Uptone JS-2 DC outputs, and sharing 12V with a WD NAS-disk. The other JS-2 DC output was dedicated to MMK-modified Mac Mini (+sense option).

Yesterday I received a new set of Ghent JSSG360 DC cables. This time I reserved a dedicated 12V output to EtherREGEN, and split 12V between Mac Mini and NAS-disk with the new Y-cable. A dedicated JS-2 12V output to EtherREGEN resulted in a profound lift in sound quality! Any trace of "digital glare" is gone, I experience more openness and clarity in upper frequencies and female voices are presented exceptional clear and without annoying sibilance. Bass and lower midrange is tighter and more powerful.

 

Anyone having the same experience?

My SetUp 2020-v11.pdf

[TwinPeak]

9 hours ago, R1200CL said:

Great drawing. Tells us so much more. 
 

How about remove the isoRegen, and use that spare LPS 1.2 to power the EtherRegen as a test ?

Then your have total isolation.

 

You may also play with adding MAC and/or NAS directly to the EtherRegen. 
Your setup seems to give some options to play with, unless distance is an issue.

 

Hi R1200CL,
Thanks for your comments. I wrote you some thoughts in a Message, please check.. 😀

[TwinPeak]

1 hour ago, esmit said:

In my experience/case removing the isoregen between ultrarendu and (Hugo TT) DAC gave slightly better results, so do share your thoughts :-)

 

Hi esmit,
my network is set up in the following order: Modem (internet) > Ubiquiti X-router > Cisco 2960 switch (SFP) > EtherREGEN A-side (SFP) > EtherREGEN B-side > UltraRendu > IsoREGEN > Denafrips DAC.
Internet from modem via Ubiquiti X-router, Mac Mini (Audirvana) and NAS-disk has RJ45 connection to Cisco switch. EtherREGEN A-side being fed with a single optical connection from Cisco SFP-port.

My SetUp 2020-v12.pdf

[TwinPeak]

On 12/20/2020 at 5:03 AM, R1200CL said:

Great drawing. Tells us so much more. 
 

How about remove the isoRegen, and use that spare LPS 1.2 to power the EtherRegen as a test ?

Then your have total isolation.

 

You may also play with adding MAC and/or NAS directly to the EtherRegen. 
Your setup seems to give some options to play with, unless distance is an issue.

 

 

3 hours ago, esmit said:

In my experience/case removing the isoregen between ultrarendu and (Hugo TT) DAC gave slightly better results, so do share your thoughts :-)

 

Hi R1200CL and esmit,

I tried without the IsoREGEN (between UltraRendu and Denafrips DAC), but to my ears it sounds better with the IsoREGEN. More air and space round voices and instruments, and better depth perspective. What might be able to substitute the IsoREGEN would be a Denafrips DDC using I2S, I think...

[TwinPeak]

31 minutes ago, R1200CL said:

And at the same time power EtherRegen with LPS-1.2 ?

(In order to be sure you have isolation). 

I use a dedicated DC 12V output from Uptone JS-2 to EtherREGEN. Do you think using LPS-1.2 would give better galvanic isolation than the JS-2?

[TwinPeak]

20 minutes ago, soares said:

Same findings here.

My setup:
Router>Rj45>oM>SFP>
Buffalo2016>SFP>oM>Rj45>Zen Mkiii>Rj45>eR>
SFP>oR>USB>RUR>
USB>iR>USB>
DAC.

What surprised me after so many efforts to clean the signal, is that the RUR still  managed to improve a little bit the final SQ. It was forgotten in a box for a couple of year and I decided to give it a try. This is of course consistent with some reports cascading 2 isoRegens. By the way the iR sounds quite better than the RUR. Also while the use of the oR instead of the uR improved SQ  the “wow”factor just came after connecting to it the eR. 
Cheers, Jorge

 

Thanks for sharing Soares!
What is RUR? And I dont see OpticalRendu (oR) in your setup layout.

 

What convinced me to stay with my current setup is by playing the "Nama" album (24/176.4) with the Puente Celeste ensemble (2010). Its an Argentina-based recording with absolute minimal use of mixing and mastering tweaks and compression - only microphones and artists and recorded at MA-studios with original 5.6 MHz (DSD) pure sterophonic, one bit recording.

EtherREGEN powered by JS-2, Cisco 2960 SFP (optical) transporting the signals and IsoREGEN in front of the Denafrips DAC has completely transformed the magic in my listening room. And of course also use of Sablon USB & URL cables, Ghent JSSG360 DC cables + my 25-35 years old analog components...

Greetings and wishes of a merry Christmas 😇

[TwinPeak]

12 hours ago, jamesg11 said:

Yes, I’m an isoRegen stayer!

 

Re the use of the js-2 on both macmini & etherRegen - back somewhere is advice from Superdad that isolation is maintained in my case by flipping the etherRegen around, ie modem ethernet into B-side & then A-side thru to dac etc.

I powered both the ER & dac with the 2 js-2 dc outputs (& I used 2x lps1.2s to power uRendu & isoRegen) - I assume this logic applies to your situation ...

 

Hi Jamesg11,

Yes, but not quite.
• 2 x LPS-1.2 to UltraRendu and IsoREGEN
• Internet (modem), Mac Mini, NAS-disk through Cisco 2960 switch

• Cisco switch SFP (optical) out to EtherREGEN SFP A-side
• EtherREGEN B-side to UltraRendu
• JS-2 (1) to EtherREGEN, JS-2 (2) Y-DC to Mac Mini + NAS

 

So I guess my JS-2 (and EtherREGEN) connections maintain isolation 😇

[TwinPeak]

5 hours ago, Rsbrsvp said:

My small amount of experimentation results in lower voltages fed to etherregen equals meatier sound.  Higher voltage is brighter and more open.  The difference in sonics  from 7v to 12v is actually quite substantial.

 

I need to double. check this perception.

 

Thanks for the tip @Rsbrsvp!
I decided to try your EtherREGEN experiment with my own equipment today. Previously I have powered eR with 12V from JS-2 and later from Uptone UltraCaps LPS 1.2. When switching between 7-9-12 volt I waited an hour before listening, just to let the system settle.
I wasn't expecting any audible changes, but the 9V (1 Amp) setting clearly sounded better with my equipment. Better micro detail and dynamics. Better space in soundstage and better performance of female voices in the top end (sibilance).
I don't really know what is going on here, but I think the 9 volt setting might favour the downstream components:
• eR B-side output > Sablon LAN cable > Sonore UltraRendu
• UltraRendu USB output > Sablon 2020 USB > Denafrips DDC (USB in) > Denafrips Pontus DAC i2S > Preamp > Amp
Anyway, I'll keep this setting since the musical improvement was clear. This may not be directly transferable to other users with different systems, but if you have a EtherREGEN/LPS 1.2 combo - give it a try 😃
Cheers
Tom

[TwinPeak]

2 hours ago, Rsbrsvp said:

I have a technical question on how and when the etherregen effects sonics.

 

When I stream music from Amazon or Qobuz, it is clear before my eyes that the music is not streaming directly to my ears. When I play a song,  the music is being placed in the RAM of my computer and then being played from there.  I see the song loading into my RAM with the visual line in my Amazon or Audrivana player.  So first question is why would the quality of streaming or a switch make a difference if anyway the music is playing direct from my computers RAM?  I assume the quality of the music being loaded into the RAM is better when using a switch, better power supply, etc.  Please confirm.

 

Now, both Amazon and Qobuz allow me to download their streaming music onto my hard SSD in my fanless PC.  To my ears, this always sounds better.  The sound is fuller, crisper, just noticeably better.  Of course, once downloaded I do not need any internet connection at all as the music is playing off my hard drive and I'm pretty sure once again it is going into RAM beforehand. 

 

Two questions.

 

1.  Why is playing downloaded music from Amazon and Qobuz sounding noticeably better than streaming?

 

2.  Is my ethernet connection and etherregen effecting the quality of that download file as well or does it have no effect on it?

 

I would appreciate a simple and as non-technical explanation as possible.  I would love an explanation from the Uptone gang...

Hi,- interesting questions!
My comments below does not answer your questions, but I also wondered about the functions of RAM-buffer in early stages of my digital/audio experiments. Before I acquired the EtherREGEN, my Mac Mini was end player before DAC. On the Mini I created a RAM-disk and copied some audio tracks into it. In Audirvana I made a new music library pointing at the RAM-disk. Back then, playing directly from RAM-disk sounded much better compared to playing from a hard drive library (SSD).
Later I got Mac Mini upgraded with the Uptone MMK, I also acquired the Uptone JS-2 and a Sonore UltraRendu - redefining the Mini's role and placement in the system. With Mini and NAS-disk powered by JS-2, and with uR as end player - repeating the RAM-disk experiment, showed very little difference in sound quality. And with eR in front of uR, the advantage of RAM-disk replay was reduced to zero.

My theory is that the shorter pathway (RAM-buffer) holding the source and send to computer output stage, and further to end player may elevate sound quality - and whatever is engaged in the path after RAM-buffer (power supplies, internal circuits etc) is taken care of by EtherREGEN. I do not use web-streaming, but the music files from web/local streaming always end up into the player software's RAM-buffer, before it is send through EtherREGEN, end player and into the DAC. In computers the RAM is a kind of "extension" of the processor, so calculations involved with reading, upsampling and replay has a very short path to the output chip.
It's just a theory - therefore I might be wrong 🤔

[TwinPeak]

Which of these 3 options will produce the best theoretical signal to the DAC? Assuming that everything upstream is by the book and that power supplies, DC cables, Ethernet cables, SFPs and optical cables are optimal.

The diagram shows:
• eR x 2 (Uptone EtherRegen)
• oM (Sonore opticalModule Deluxe)
• oR (Sonore opticalRendu)
• Cisco (Cisco 2960 Catalyst Switch)
• RJ45 (Ghent LAN cable)
• 1.2 LPS (Uptone UltraCaps 1.2 LPS)
• JS-2 LPS (Uptone JS-2 PSU)
• SFP Transceiver (Sonore SystemOptique approved)
• Optical Cable (Sonore SystemOptique approved)

 

[TwinPeak]

On 11/9/2021 at 9:21 AM, TwinPeak said:

Which of these 3 options will produce the best theoretical signal to the DAC? Assuming that everything upstream is by the book and that power supplies, DC cables, Ethernet cables, SFPs and optical cables are optimal.

The diagram shows:
• eR x 2 (Uptone EtherRegen)
• oM (Sonore opticalModule Deluxe)
• oR (Sonore opticalRendu)
• Cisco (Cisco 2960 Catalyst Switch)
• RJ45 (Ghent LAN cable)
• 1.2 LPS (Uptone UltraCaps 1.2 LPS)
• JS-2 LPS (Uptone JS-2 PSU)
• SFP Transceiver (Sonore SystemOptique approved)
• Optical Cable (Sonore SystemOptique approved)

 

After two weeks using alternative 1, I reconnected network components to alternative 2.
In this configuration the opticalModule Deluxe works as a mere slave in converting an ethernet signal to optical for the opticalRendu. Wow, a huge change. The holographic stage image was in place again, and better voice definition and bass and overall impression.

 

In my humble opinion, using the full power of two etherRegen's in A > B configuration is way better than going through B > A setup at any point.

[TwinPeak]

On 1/4/2022 at 10:52 AM, HumanMedia said:

Fascinating stuff!

 

I have a similar setup but with only one eR and to keep thing simpler, my OpticalModule isn’t even in the chain anymore.

So my current setup is: router - ethernet - B-EtherRegen-A - optical - opticalRendu

 

I wonder if I would get an improvement following your lead and reconfiguring to:

 

router - ethernet - A-EtherRegen-B - ethernet - OpticalModule - optical - opticalRendu

Any thoughts?

 

 

HumanMedia, sorry for late respons.
As you can see from my setup alternatives, I also tried without the opticalModule (deluxe), and with the second eR i B > A configuration before oR. But I got better results using both my eR's i A > B configuration, which include the opticalModule.

 

Later I ran into trouble as I couldn't make alternative 2 stable over time (eR #1 A > B  -  eR #2 A > B  -  oM - oR). It showed up that opticalRendu needed a static IP address from the Ubiquiti X-router.