The EtherREGEN thread for various network, cable, power experiences and experiments

[agladstone]

I’ve been closely following all of this because I’ve been planning on purchasing the EtherRegen. 
From what I’ve been reading, it seems like to get the optimal results and benefit, you need to purchase: EtherRegen, LPS 1.2 to power it, Afterdark Master Clock, LPSU to power that, good clock cables, two Sonore Optical Modules, 2 more LPS 1.2 for those, SFP cages and SFP cables, and at least two really good audio grade Ethernet cables. 
Assuming I’m following all of this correctly and the aforementioned list is fairly accurate, would I be better off just looking at a more expensive Solution vs. the EtherRegen that wouldn’t require the additional purchases of what adds up to $2,000 - $3,000 worth of additional pieces of gear? 

[agladstone]

I have an Aurender server / streamer going to two different USB Reclockers (ISORegen-> IFI USB 3.0) each powered with LPS 1.2 and then going USB into Mytek Brooklyn DAC+ being powered by JS-2. 
I have Cable Modem going into Netgear Wifi / switch combo with Ethernet going from that into the Aurender as of now. (Cable modem and Netgear also each powered by their own HDPlex LPSU). 
So seems like maybe just EtherRegen, powered by its own LPS 1.2 and a couple of audio grade Ethernet cables will be good enough for me ?  

[agladstone]

@PYP Thanks for the info! 
Meanwhile, my system seems like a Bluetooth speaker playing MP3’s compared to your impressive set up! 
I think I’ll start with ER and LPS 1.2 and a couple of decent audio grade Ethernet cables  and maybe I’ll add some Optical Modules down the road to go copper Ethernet -> Fiber -> Copper  in the future to squeeze some more out of it? 

[agladstone]

21 minutes ago, Superdad said:

Thanks for asking. Dislocated right femur. Must have taken a big fall from a tree or our roof (the road is much further than our cats ever venture so it was not a car). Undergoing surgery this morning. It's my wife's favorite (very affectionate) cat, so he gets another life--and we get a big bill. 

1 life down, 8 to go!! 
Pets become family members and they talk back less than our kids:) 

Glad your cat will be okay! 

[agladstone]

Is there any difference in results and/or sound quality with EtherRegen going A to B as designed vs going B to A ? 
 

[agladstone]

1 hour ago, jamesg11 said:

I went from this above Ghent (now on mac mini m1 server in adjoining room) to this Ghent (& have thought it an improvement) -

ET12 Linkway CAT8 40Gbps/2000MHz Ethernet(JSSG360) Cable.

In your opinion does this seem to be the best Ethernet cable Ghent offers for the EtherRegen? I’m about to place an order for some Ghent DC cables and Ethernet cables for my née EtherRegen which should be arriving tomorrow:) 

[agladstone]

On 3/29/2021 at 6:18 AM, Rsbrsvp said:

I use ghent 7n copper myself.

@GryphonGuy @soares I am also trying to determine what new DC cables to buy for increase in SQ. 
I need several to go from two new JS2’s (one powering my Mytek Brooklyn DAC+, the other powering an ISO-Regen and an ifi iUSB 3.0 Reclockers)  and an LPS 1-2 powering an EtherRegen 

I am curious about the newer Ghent DC choices, I have a few of his original Canare 4S6 cables, but now he has the Gotham G416 and the Neotech 7n Solid copper and he also has a no brand starquad Silver over copper option. 
Has anyone compared these and determined one better than the others? Is it worth getting the JS360 upgrade? 
Anyone know how the Ghent DC Cables compare to the expensive Audio Sensibilities Neotech 7n Silver ? I’ve heard both good and negative reviews of the AS silver DC (more positive than negative), but they seem really expensive for DC Cables ? 

[agladstone]

Question about Audiophile Ethernet cables for EtherRegen and upstream. 
I’m also trying to decide what Ethernet cables to get for my new EtherRegen. 
1. does it only make sense to get a high end one for the B side out of ER into my Aurender Server? 
2. It seems the consensus is that from B side to Server, it should not have the shield tied to the RJ45 plugs, how about for all the other Ethernet cables upstream of ER? For example, should the Ethernet cables going from modem to router and router to A side of ER also not have the shield tied to RJ45 plug ? 
How about other equipment plugged into the router / switch but not the direct line modem-router-A side ER? 
I found the brand Linkup Cat 8 on Amazon and it looks like very well made and well shielded cable and they have field hand terminated metal RJ45 connectors that look like the telegarten ones and they’re pretty reasonable in price (like $30-$50 per cable). 
I was thinking they may be good to use upstream and that I could easily disconnect the shield that goes to connector if it’s bad to have any Ethernet cable upstream and to the A side of ER ? 
https://www.amazon.com/LINKUP-Ethernet-Screened-2000Mhz-Structure/dp/B07VXKMRBH

Any suggestions for the B side of ER that aren’t outrageous in price (under $400 USD)? 
I have read the Shunyata Venom and the AQ Diamond are pretty good? The Ghent Ethernet cables look very similar to the Amazon Linkup except with the addition of JS360 ? 

[agladstone]

16 hours ago, R1200CL said:

@agladstone

So many questions 😀

I think you more or less know what I’m thinking is good cables in general. 
I rather prioritize good DC cables, as this is well proven to to have a good effect (yes JSSG360), over expensive ethernet cables.

 

I’ve studied Belden website a lot. One can learn something about ethernet cables there. I have an idea of what would be the ultimate ethernet cable based on Belden technology. It would be an extremely stiff cable. 
One of the trick they use is to glue the twisted pairs together. This make them stiff. This is the one Blue Jeans is using. (A special version).   Still making a Faraday cage isn’t in their solutions. (Yes that’s the JSSG360). Another thing  Belden has is a very special plug. Not yet deployed in audio. The technology behind it make sense to me. 
 

Don’t forget your JS-2 is supplied with good DC cable as well. Remember Alex is the only person in the world having access to those DC plugs you’re getting. You can apply JSSG360 to those cables. In theory may be a better cable as more (lower) AWG. 

The supplied JS-2 DC cables (I have 4 now since I just purchased a second JS-2!!) are unfortunately way too long for me and my set up. I wish I had good soldering skills and the required equipment to be able to shorten them myself. I need like 0.3M (I also think there is a benefit to shorter DC cables too) and the ones that come with the JS-2 are 1.5 M I believe. 

[agladstone]

Any thoughts on why I need to constantly turn off and turn back on (reboot) my eR? 
My Aurender which the eR is feeding tells me there is no IP and I need to reboot the eR almost every listening session to get my Aurender to register an IP address again? 
I leave my eR and Aurender powered on at all times. 
@Superdad 

[agladstone]

1 hour ago, Superdad said:

Hi Allen:

Can you confirm if you are or are not using an external clock with your EtherREGEN?

If using an external clock, it must stay connected, on, and running perfectly 100% of the time—without even a millisecond of glitch. Any clock glitch that occurs—even if overnight when you are asleep—will require that power be removed/reapplied to the EtherREGEN. 

 

The above turned out to be the issue for another user last week, so it’s fresh on my mind. 

Of course this does not apply if you are not using and external reference clock. 

No clock (yet anyhow! Lol) 

Cable Modem -> Netgear Nighthawk Router & Switch -> eR -> Aurender 

[agladstone]

1 minute ago, lwr said:

Is your Nighthawk running the latest firmware update?

No, it’s one firmware behind. I actually tried several times to update to the most recent and I couldn’t get it to work.  

[agladstone]

7 hours ago, R1200CL said:

@agladstone

Good ethernet cables is always good tip. It’s strange you’re not able to upgrade your router. 
Assuming you using the Nighthawk as DHCP server, I would assign fixed IP address to your endpoint / Aurender. Enable flow control. Turn of WiFi on Aurender. 
Is your switch a managed one ?

I can try this! I actually have a fixed IP set for my Synology NAS, so should be easy enough to try for Aurender also. 
I have the Netgear Nighthawk R8500, it is a wifi router and it also has a 5 port switch built in and can be managed somewhat via the router login software. 
it’s about 4-5 years old now, it was top of line/ state of art when I got it, but I’m sure there’s better ones available now. 
I have also been wondering if it would benefit me to connect one or two switches to it and then have one switch with all non audio connections and the second switch which would go to EtherRegen only, would that provide any noise benefits? I do have a couple of the Netgear GS105’s not being used that apparently are good with the JSST grounding on DC negative? 

[agladstone]

3 hours ago, James Stephens said:

The manual update method is the most reliable of the 3 methods of updating the firmware:

 

https://kb.netgear.com/23960/How-do-I-manually-update-the-firmware-on-my-NETGEAR-router

 

Have you tried that?

 

(Doubt it will fix your issue but at least you might be able to update)

I’ll try this (again), I have tried a few time’s before and I keep getting errors, etc - not sure why? 
I’ve been tempted to maybe get a newer model or even something like a Ubiquitel, not sure if it will make a difference? 

[agladstone]

4 hours ago, LewinskiH01 said:

 

Interesting.

How are using them? On the ethernet cable feeding the eR, so in series with it? Sounds along the lines to those using two eR in series.

How do you think that DX system differs from the other Medical Ethernet Isolators like the Baaske, etc or are they essentially doing the same thing? 
I was initially using one of the Baaske medical Ethernet isolators before the EtherRegen, but recently removed it because I’m still confused about what they actually do? 

[agladstone]

4 minutes ago, Rsbrsvp said:

Seems like the DX is a EMI filter.   I guess if the etherregen also filters EMI than the DX is not necessary.

 

We need Uptone to tell us if the etherregen is already doing this job.

Alex did tell me that if I use the medical Ethernet isolators, to only use them

before / upstream of the EtherRegen and never afterwards/ downstream. 

[agladstone]

On 5/3/2021 at 1:11 PM, Rsbrsvp said:

Please forgive me for the question if this has been covered:

 

Does the ER need to be on 24/7 to sound its best or is a one or two hour warm up enough?

 

It gets so hot, I want to extend it's life so I prefer to turn it on only when necessary.

 

I thought at least to turn it on in the early afternoon and off at night before bed.  I listen to music in the evening....  That would allow a 4-5 hour warm-up time.

I’m curious what voltage and amps the power supply is at that you’re using to power eR ? 
I keep reading from most how hot the eR gets, however, I’ve been powering mine from day one with a 12V / 3A power supply (Vinne Rossi DC4EVER super cap) and I’ve never turned off my eR and it has never gotten too hot. 
I have a suspicion that 7v or 9V is creating more heat (just a hunch, I’ve never experimented myself and I don’t know enough about electric from an engineers perspective)? 

[agladstone]

2 minutes ago, Mike Rubin said:

I use an LPS 1.2 set to 12v and the eR definitely gets hot, even when placed in a stand that acts as a bit of a heat sink.

The LPS 1.2 is about 1A at 12V, whereas I’m using 12V / 3A , not sure if that would effect heat or not, but if the LPS 1.2 is getting near its max Amp, it may ? 

[agladstone]

2 minutes ago, JohnSwenson said:

The ER is a "constant power" device. It dissipates the same amount of power no matter what voltage you feed it (from 7 to 12 volts).

 

About 70% of the power is fixed, it is always there no matter what you are doing. The rest is determined by how much data is flowing through it. The lowest power will be one "input" (on an A side RJ45 jack) and an output on the B side RJ45 jack. Just doing 44.1 PCM will be the lowest. 384 or DSD512 will take a little more power. Using the SFP port takes a little more power.

 

The major increase is caused by using the other A side ports with lots of data flowing through the ports. Say running 4, 4K TVs off the A ports as well as your audio will get the ER power draw up to its maximum.

 

I don't HAVE 4 4K TVs to actually test what that is, but if anybody wants to donate that to me I'll be glad to run the test!

 

John S.

Thanks for the actual engineer explanation! 
I only have one Ethernet in on A side, and one Ethernet out on B side. 
Also, I use the EtherRegen with my Aurender streamer / server, which loads everything onto an internal SSD first, prior to playback, so perhaps this is why my never gets too hot like others have claimed ? 

[agladstone]

On 5/6/2021 at 2:19 PM, PYP said:

Thank you, John.  I appreciate the response.  I don't have an infrared thermometer.  Is there one you recommend for this purpose?  That said, even for the great good of audiophiles everywhere, I don't want to try a reenactment at this point (still burning in the second eR).   

 

Subjectively, the problem started when the eR was too hot to handle.  I've had it for more than a year and it never was that hot and never had issues, but adding an additional eR and LPS 1.2 warmed the cabinet considerably, I suppose.   Hadn't mentioned this in my earlier posts since I assumed this was a one-off and didn't want others to get nervous about their setups, even if they too live in a desert environment.  

I’ve been having intermittent dropouts of my eR from day one and I don’t feel my eR is too hot at all, I’ve not yet been able to figure out what is causing it? 
so perhaps it’s not the heat that was causing it? 
Initially I was using a Baaske isolator Pre side A, so I assumed that must be the issue, but I removed it and also bought a high end Ethernet cable (Shunyata Delta) and it is still happening to me. At least 2-3 times per day I’ll suddenly loose an IP address on my Aurender server and the music just stops. 
Last, if anyone is interested, the Shunyata Delta Ethernet cable definitely made a very noticeable bump up in sound quality, my system is sounding better than ever now ! 

[agladstone]

10 minutes ago, PYP said:

That seems like a network issue and I'm the wrong person to diagnose that kind of problem.  I've used Roon for years and the software reliably connected to the Roon endpoint 99.9% of the time.  In my case, troubleshooting was simple.    The network was fine and I had added new equipment (second eR and an LPS 1.2).  The eRs were getting power, so it wasn't the power supplies.  Power cycled anyway.  No Roon connection. Disconnected my "old" eR and connected the most recent eR.  Roon found the endpoint.  "New" eR is not the problem.  Reconnected everything as it had been and found that my first eR was too hot to handle.  That was never an issue previously.   The ceiling fan was cooling me as I worked, but the air flow couldn't reach into the cabinet.  Get the cabinet its own fan, I thought.  That worked.  

 

I will most likely demo a Shunyata Delta clock cable.  Well shielded, it seems.  Worth a few days for a demo.   Their stuff seems innovative.  

Thanks for the insight. I am starting to think about getting new cable modem and router and  all new Ethernet cables (prob try Cat 8 with Telegartner style plugs and put shrink wrap around cable under plugs so their not connected to shield). 
I suspect it’s possible I have issues with modem, router, or current cables (or all 3)? 
These intermittent dropouts are so annoying and I have to recycle the power on modem, router, and eR (in that order) each time they occur before my server gets IP address back. 
I did assign a static IP address to my server/streamer, and that did not solve the problem. 
I can’t say enough good things about the Shunyata Delta Ethernet cable and also the bunch of Shunyata Venom 10NR (noise reduction) and Venom Digtial NR power cables I added a few weeks ago. Combined along with the EtherRegen and the two new JS-2’s I got (added all these things about a month or so ), my system is on such a new / higher level vs. ever before !! 

[agladstone]

18 minutes ago, JohnSwenson said:

This sounds like an issue with your DHCP server, or connections to it. In most systems the DHCP server is in the "router" whatever that may be. A LOT of residential router have a problem where they get slower and slower over (most likely some bug in their software) that causes their response to DHCP requests to get longer and longer. The more switches you have between the router and the endpoint (and remember the ER IS a switch) the worse this issue is. At some point the endpoint times out when the response is so long.

 

This can usually be temporarily fixed by rebooting the router, which fixes the problem for a while, but then it gets slower and slower over time and eventually starts happening again. I had this problem for quite a while and had to reboot my router at least once a month to prevent this.  This can be fixed by getting your own router (not relying on the one built in with your modem/router from your ISP), I'm a big fan of pfSense running on a small fanless computer.

 

It can also be caused by as simple a thing as a bad cable. Do not assume all Ethernet cables are always good. Probably somewhere around 10% of network problems such as this are caused by bad cables. This is fairly easy to test, go to amazon and buy a bunch of decent but inexpensive Ethernet cables and start swapping them in. Note this is just for testing, buy inexpensive for this then buy "better" ones if you wish after testing.

 

One thing I have found that has been the culprit in many cases is long runs, such as in wall runs etc, that were done wrong. Patch cables are stranded wire and long run cable (the stuff sold in spools) is solid conductor. Most of the connectors you can buy for terminating your own cables are designed for stranded wire, when used with solid core they will work for awhile but over time the connection will get poor. The solid core wire was traditionally designed to be used with punch down  blocks. There ARE some pretty good connectors that will work with solid core cables, but you have to make SURE they are designed for that.

 

John S.

 

 

John:

Thanks as always for your endless and helpful knowledge and advice! 
I actually do own my own Arris DOCIS 3.0 modem and Netgear Nighthawk router. 
They are both about 3-4 years old now and I haven’t been able to update the Netgear router to the most recent firmware (keeps failing to auto update). 
Ive been suspecting they could be the cause and possibly even the firmware issue adding to it? 
Also, while I don’t have a long in-wall run of Ethernet cable, I do have a long run of in-wall coax leading from the cable in from my condo building to where it connects in my stereo rack, it was done by some real “hacks” I hired for cheap about 8 years ago, and I’ve sometimes wondered if that could in some way be contributing to any of this also? 
Last, while I do have all BlueJeans Cables Cat 6A Ethernet cables, I ordered a bunch at very short lengths (1 foot and 2 foot) and I can tell that they’re strained and twisted, etc - so this is yet another possible culprit. 
When I recently bought my Shunyata Delta Ethernet cable to go from eR to Aurender, it only comes in 1.5 meter length, and they told the reason is because they did a lot of testing and discovered that 1.5 M is the needed and best length to ensure signal integrity, so I was also thinking when I replace all my patch cables, I should get all 1.5M just in case what Shunyata is saying is true (it could be marketing BS too and they’re just saying this because it’s easier to only make / sell all one length?)  

Time for me to start testing all of the above one by one and see what fixes my intermittent loss of IP address to my Aurender server! (Same intermittent dropouts happening less often with my computers or iPad, etc). 
Thanks again for all your help! 

[agladstone]

15 hours ago, Johnnydev said:

Hi Agladstone,

 

Did you perhaps connected a different, too small, power supply to the netgear nighthawk?

 

I also have two EtherRegens and last week I removed my Farad super3 12V 3A from the netgear and placed an SMPS that was too small and got exactly the same problems.

 

Measuring all cables was not the problem.

After installing a 12V 4A meanwell medical SMPS all problems were solved

 

I am actually using an external HDPLEX LPSU set at 12V to power my Netgear. I can’t remember the Amps for the HDPLEX, but I thought it was more than 4A, however I’m also using it to power my Arris Modem, so maybe between the two it’s not enough Amps? 
I’ll try swamping LPSU’s around to see if giving it more power helps. 
 

[agladstone]

11 minutes ago, GryphonGuy said:

 

Since changing from consumer router to pfsense router + separate switches, things never fail, and I can use the full internet bandwidth I am paying for. Here in Malaysia, the only compulsory device is the ISP provided fibre-to-copper media converter. Everything else after that can be your own equipment.

 

So a +1 for pfsense (if your ISP allows BYO Router).

 

Regards

GG

I will need to investigate pfsense! 
if it installs on a PC or stand alone device, is it software only vs hardware, or does it still use my router, but with the pfsense SW instead of Netgear (or other) firmware ? 

[agladstone]

6 minutes ago, GryphonGuy said:

 

pfsense is not for the novice networker. There is a lot of setting up to do. Even if you buy the Netgate hardware, you may be paying for somebody to set it up for you as you wouldn't want to leave your front door open for ventilation in a trusting manner in this day and age.

 

My reason for changing was that the ISP provided wireless router just could not perform its duties when it had to route Wireless and wired signals at the same time. The average Malaysian household would be a few WiFi devices and maybe 1 wired device. I have approximately 20 devices half of which are IoT and the other half wired traditional devices.

 

I even used Ubiquiti gear (and still do for Wifi) but their software is a mess and the business model has to fail at some point as it is a self imposed pyramid selling scheme (they have to sell more and more devices with lifetime free support to keep the funds for development coming in). So I jumped ship a year or so ago. 

 

Regards

GG

I just looked at pfsense and also OPNsense and they both seem above and beyond my current tech ability, even the preconfigured HW Soluions (which all look really nice!). 
maybe there is a Lite version that can be loaded onto my Netgear to replace their own firmware?