The EtherREGEN thread for various network, cable, power experiences and experiments

[PYP]

1.  Has anyone tried an LPS 1.2 with the eR?  Improved SQ?

 

2.  How about experiments with the brand of ethernet cable going into the A side of the eR?  Make a difference or not?

 

If not, any suggestions for flexible ethernet patch cables?  The usual stuff make routing behind a crowded rack difficult.

 

Thanks.  

[PYP]

Can't remember who suggested trying grounding the eR, but thank you.  Doesn't make any sense to me that this would work, but it works.

 

Someone else suggested the easily-managed flat ethernet cables and tried one on the A side of the eR.  Sounds fine and takes stress off the connection, which I prefer.  

[PYP]

5 minutes ago, ray-dude said:

I should say that for the record, I'm really really uncomfortable so clearly hearing differences between ethernet cables....this way (even more) madness dwells.

 

That is for sure, but you are providing a public service doing all this testing.  I just can't make myself do too much of this experimenting any more.  Grounding the darn thing was enough.  It is so crowded behind my rack and I have to keep my head down to clear the bottom of the diffuser (on the wall behind the rack), which will leave its mark on your head if you mess with it.  😖

 

Since we are talking brands, before the eR, I found that a Purist Audio Design Cat7 cable made a nice difference, which really surprised me given bits = bits.  On the other hand, the Blue Jeans certified 6a, didn't sound right.  Currently, I have a monoprice 6a to the A side and the Purist Audio Design on the B side.  Sounding very nice.  

[PYP]

6 minutes ago, ray-dude said:

 

Dang it @PYP you made me go back and see what grounding sounds like.  I'm a bit delirious after all this A/B testing, but there may be something there even with only a single ethernet cable on the A side.  I'll need to listen to some AM radio for a while to clear my ears out, but I'll come back to this one

 

Well you now have me curious about trying an LPS 1.2, so I'd say we are even.  😎

[PYP]

3 hours ago, stevebythebay said:

Though I've used SR products for many years, including Galileo analogue and digital interconnects in my current system, I'd recommend trying, for a bit less than a c-note, the top end Shunyata Sigma Ethernet, rather than Mr. Denny's, less than top end Galileo cable.  That's assuming you can get your hands on both for trial.  I'm betting the less expensive one from Shunyata will surprise. 

 

Something like the Purist Audio Design Cat 7, which I purchased long before getting the eR to connect the in-wall ethernet to the DAC, is priced between the no-name stuff and the $1K stuff.  It was a nice upgrade at the time.  Of course, nothing compared to adding the eR.  The PAD Cat7 now resides between the B side of the eR and the DAC.  Just another option...

[PYP]

29 minutes ago, HumanMedia said:

 

Ive held off tweaking too much until things settle but have tried powering it with a JS-2 and LPS 1.2.

 

Would be interested in your findings about powering with both of these after about 300 hours or so.  

 

My eR took quite a while to settle in and cycled through rough patches during the process.  Of course, the variables of our systems are all different and cannot be predicted, it seems.   Personally, I like remaining skeptical until my ears are happy (or not).  

[PYP]

38 minutes ago, HumanMedia said:

And the other variable that was added to the system with the ER was the short Belden Cat 6a that connects the ER to the ultraRendu. It has never been used, so what is the sound of that cable and what is the sound of the ER and what of these burn in changes is the sound of one or the other?

 

As others have found, it seems a new ethernet cable needs to break in too.  That makes no sense to me, but that is what I experienced too.  It seems that ethernet isn't just bits = bits because stuff other than data takes a ride on the same line.  

[PYP]

On 12/17/2019 at 2:04 PM, HumanMedia said:

Will report back. Knowing the sound of the Farad power supplies, I have a sneaking suspicion that they might be the perfect fit for the ER.

 

Curious if you have had a chance to experiment further.  The Farad has a max draw of 42w for 12 volts.  Any idea of what the average draw might be?  Thanks. 

[PYP]

'Tis the season, so added some Christmas lights to mine.

 

 

[PYP]

1 minute ago, thyname said:

‘Hey Mola Mola: what you got in there? SR HFTs?

 

Oh, so close!  You almost received the audio nervosa award this year. 😎    SR ECTs.

[PYP]

Ok.  But I think you are killing the suspense that every eR owner now has about the ECTs.  

 

But I'm glad you asked because it is a long story and that is also fitting for the season.  So...  The ECTs were used INSIDE my previous DAC (DirectStream).  For that experiment, I kept the cover off and added the ECTs one at a time and moved them around.  Ending up using all five, mostly on chips.  The effect was subtle, but good.  Perhaps placebo effect, but I still don't understand SR's explanation, and if I did, I probably wouldn't believe it.  My working theory is that in that application, mounted by some grey-tack (provided), they worked against resonance of the chips themselves.  OK, it is snake oil, but it never inflamed my guts, so "no gain, no pain" to those who love to measure.  😝

 

At any rate, once I had all the Mola Mola gear in place, I put the tweaks back into a box.  You just plop the MM down, connect and enjoy.  

 

Well, no longer being the patient audiophile (is there such a thing?) I was in my younger years, I put all the tweaks on eR nearly at the same time.  First, a Herbie's tube damper below to increase air flow and a Aurios bearing footer on top (never liked them under equipment) just to see what would happen (it does act as a bit of a heatsink and adds weight).  After a few hours, there seemed to be a subtle difference.  Then added a Bybee acrylic QSE beneath the SMPS.  Next day, I didn't notice anything much, so added the ECTs.  An hour or two later, I was in another room and a Roon radio selection played which actually startled me.  It was as though I was listening to the highest resolution recording I've ever experienced.  But, as we know, sometimes this effect can be too much and is actually boosting frequencies.  Over time, this can grow tiresome if it isn't truly natural/balanced/neutral.  

 

Therefore I don't have an answer yet.  Will leave it all as is for a week and see how it progresses.  More later... 

 

 

[PYP]

1 hour ago, thyname said:

I was only joking. But I am guessing you already know this.

 

Yes, as was I.  But I do understand when some of the explanations about this kind of stuff makes it hard to take seriously.  I suppose the truth of it is:  the manufacturer had a theory, tried stuff and some of it was audible.

 

Well, to switch the metaphor, you have clearly drunk the Kool-Aide.  And are enjoying the experience.  Interesting that with all your SR stuff the ground block didn't make a difference.  I thought that was a central concept of their cables...

 

To return to the thread -- is the Atmosphere ethernet cable AFTER the eR?  Would be interested in what you found if you experimented with alternatives.

[PYP]

5 hours ago, soares said:

Currently using:

 

Jensen VRD- iFF > Router (HDPLEX) > Pink Faun isolator > Ethernet copper > Zen MKIII > Ethernet  copper > Optical module (LPS 1.2) > fiber > Etherregen (Sbooster + ultra) > Ethernet copper >  Ultrarendu (Sbooster) > USB > Isoregen (LPS 1.2) > USB > (OPPO 205 modded).

 

Interesting setup.  By any chance did you try using the eR without the Optical module to determine how it improved the eR used alone?

 

I assume that a JS-2 LPS could power both optical module and eR.  That is an interesting prospect as I consider future improvements to the eR alone.   

[PYP]

In the listening thread  @Nikko1960  wrote about a thread on Roonlabs forum:  I simply cannot believe the moronic exchanges I have had over here, as a result of trying to spread some good news. Unbelievable!  I post a review towards the end of this thread. 

 

Some of us have commented that our spouse/significant other, who doesn't care about equipment and would rather we not spend $$ on new stuff, have heard an improvement.  How would the more vitriolic voices on that thread explain that?  I understand the skepticism (and welcome it), but a pre-judgement that something cannot work just doesn't make sense to me.  

 

It is true I don't understand the mechanics of copper ethernet, and so want to ask those who do:  What is the purpose of the additional shielding for the newer cables (cat 8, for example) that carry more data?   Put another way:  If it is all just bits, why the additional shielding?

[PYP]

2 hours ago, skatbelt said:

 

The shielding (for individual pairs and overal) is to prevent electromagnetic interference so the cable meets its specs in terms of speed, bandwidth and distances for computer networking.

Thank you.  What I was trying to ask is what "noise" gets transmitted over copper ethernet, thus the question about shielding.  @Superdad got to the root of my intended question:  "We are all aware that there are some people--on other forums and even here on Audiophile Style--who are stuck thinking about Ethernet (and USB for that matter) as existing only as data packets of ones and zeros (which in itself is just a construct since the signals are a train of timed, variable voltages). The are not considering the issues of either moving clock-thresholds caused by ground-plane noise (itself caused by deterministic jitter) or the effects of common-mode leakage currents."

[PYP]

@skatbelt recommends the JS-2 and  @soares recommends the opticalModule.  I have ordered these to try in my system.  As we know, everything is system dependent.  The JS-2 will power the eR and oM.  Right now, I have the eR grounded, so will try that as is.  

 

So, thank you gentlemen for spending my hard-earned savings.  😎

 

 

 

[PYP]

4 minutes ago, skatbelt said:

 

I don't know if I can handle this pressure. Fortunately Uptone has a 30-day no-satisfaction money-back guarantee... 😅

 

Please hang in there for another two weeks.  😏  We will know the results soon.  

[PYP]

1 hour ago, soares said:

I hope you won’t regret it! 😀

As I had the opportunity to tell you guys, it’s not often that I listen to such a good SQ. 

Cheers Jorge

 

In your ears, we trust, Jorge. 🙂  Of course, in addition to the subjectivity, there is also the variables that cannot be calculated.  That said, anything that cleans up the power or the signal has to be helpful.  To what degree?  Let's see.  

[PYP]

24 minutes ago, ray-dude said:

I'm not (yet) setup for fiber ethernet, but looking forward to joining the party soon...

 

Likewise.  Should receive a Sonore opticalModule later this month.  The oM's optical out will feed the eR's optical A side. My setup is simple so nothing else connected to the eR.  Currently using the eR with copper ethernet A > B with excellent results.

 

Just received an SFP and 1 meter fiber cable (via Amazon).  I've seen fiber before, but looking at it now vs. all the huge and inflexible cables in my audio system, it just seems so cool.  Like the first time you try keyless entry to your car and wonder why your front door, computer login and everything else doesn't work that way.  

 

Just received a JS-2 and letting it settle in with the eR.  The second rail of the JS-2 will feed the oM.  Down the rabbit hole!  😎

[PYP]

21 minutes ago, HumanMedia said:

Oh and the audible difference going from left to right was improved upper frequencies, cleaner more organic sound, and more relaxed but punchier mids and bass.

 

This is what I'm finding too as the recently acquired JS-2 gets more playing time.  Regarding the size of the change, I wonder if the quality of the power entering the home is the biggest factor.  

[PYP]

I’ve been comparing the eR powered by its SMPS and powered by the JS-2 LPS.   Now that the JS-2 is settled in (received it in early February ), the comparison is very evident in my system.  As others have reported, with the JS-2 increases the improvements already brought by the eR with its SMPS.  

 

In my system, the SMPS sounded great in the evening, but wasn’t consistent the rest of the time.  To me, that meant the problem was power-related (perhaps the issue was taming the junk coming into the house via the power lines).  When the eR wasn’t at its best, the highs were not as good as without the eR.  Since it was easy to hear the eR’s potential in the evening, and I wasn’t willing to lose those improvements, I looked at UpTone's other gear for a solution.

 

For me, the JS-2 -- which is a solid, beautiful piece of gear – solved the issues.  But it did more than solve the issues:  the SQ is now better than the eR at its best (in the evening) with the SMPS.  While the improvements are across the board, the improvement to female singers has really caught my attention lately (perhaps because my speakers, to my taste, excel with voices).  Today I was listening to one of my favorite albums by Eliane Elias and the most nuanced changes in her voice were evident.  For the first time, I could hear when she changed her inflection to follow the music as it got funkier.  And at one point, I could “hear” her smile (perhaps at the lyric?) and I was transported to the studio.  We all have had that experience because we have all spent countless hours (years/decades) researching, obsessing (don’t forget the obsessing), listening, buying gear, selling gear, buying more gear and tweaking our system.  That moment of transcendence makes it all worth it.  

 

Beyond the great, cost-effective solutions that UpTone offers, I’d be remiss if I didn’t thank Alex for his first-class customer service.  Truly exceptional.  

 

Lastly, thank you @skatbelt for reporting that the JS-2 improved SQ and that it could be a worthwhile investment.  The JS-2, of course, has two rails, so I’ll experiment with an opticalModule when I receive it from Sonore.  

[PYP]

26 minutes ago, André Gosselin said:

Hi,

Could you inform us about the voltage you have set on the JS-2 to power the ER (7 / 9 / 12 V ?) Have you experimented and compared different voltages ?

 

12 V.  Haven't tried other voltages and probably won't, at least for a while...  

[PYP]

Before I added the JS-2 to my system, I removed the ground wire to the eR and the small weight placed on top of the eR to get a baseline without them over time.  Short story:  both have been returned their previous duties.  

 

As usual, RTFM (which is really helpful since it was carefully written) but experiment too.  

[PYP]

Added an opticalModule about one week ago.   The path is now:  Copper ethernet > oM > fiber > eR > copper ethernet > DAC (Roon endpoint).  A JS-2 powers both the oM and eR (7v and 12v respectively).

 

As Rajiv mentioned in his excellent review of the eR, the oM adds density.  He heard a smaller soundstage, but I hear the opposite in mine.  The oM seems to get the last bit of all that is good about the eR.  Others had mentioned that the upstream still matters and that is verified in my system.  Unlike Rajiv's optimized system, the upstream in my system isn't:  ISP-provided modem/router/wifi > in-wall cat 5e > then to the setup shown above.  

 

@soares had mentioned that the oM increased SQ in his system.  Thanks, Jorge, for the recommendation.  You have spent my money well!   

 

Probably going to stop now (insert photo of wife's knowing look here), until UpTone sells a reasonably priced external clock in a JS-2 case so that I can have matching gear (I know, not going to happen).  

[PYP]

23 minutes ago, sahmen said:

I am asking about "burn-in" because I wonder whether there might be some benefit to having some music play through the OM continuously for some days, as I did for the ER when it first arrived.

 

My experience:  There was a variation in SQ for the first week or so.  During that time, I had music playing during the day.  After one week, I could hear most of the benefit.  With a few more days beyond the week, it seems even better.  

 

I know this kind of stuff makes some heads hurt, but this is to my ears, in my system, with my own set of preferences and prejudices.  Your mileage will vary, but hopefully it will settle in and work well for you.  Since you already own it, just sit back and hear for yourself.  Enjoy!