The EtherREGEN thread for various network, cable, power experiences and experiments

[Superdad]

Hi Folks:

 

Now that EtherREGEN is shipping and so many people are excitingly posting their unique experiences with it, the Listening Impressions thread is starting to wander with discussions of cables, power supplies, combinations with various other networking equipment, etc.

 

Some people suggested that a new topic be started, so this is it.  I will move some posts over here now, and I may go back through the other thread and move a few more that are far off that basic topic of Listening reports.

 

By the way, please remember that there is another thread called EtherREGEN: Installation, Usage, Difficulty, Questions . That is a more "official" thread that we monitor carefully to assist people.

 

The one you are reading now can be far more anything-goes free-form.  Play nice and you can discuss all the tweaks and bizarro stuff here.  

Have fun!

--Alex C.

 

P.S. I had @The Computer Audiophile try to make this the first post of this thread, but #2 is as far up as he was able to make it go.

[Superdad]

1 hour ago, Nenon said:

However, the weird thing is that they are extended range transceiver designed for 80 km distance.

 

Well come on, just order an 80km spool of single-mode fiber off Amazon.   Can such a thing even exist?  That's 262,000 feet of cable. Guess you dedicate your garage to housing it! 

[Superdad]

3 minutes ago, Nenon said:

@Superdad would have to do some cleanup again it seems :). Sorry, but he started it. 

 

No, this is THE free-for-all thread. I will never "clean-up" anything here no matter how wacky! 

[Superdad]

Just now, joelha said:

I realize the Alex says a linear power supply shouldn't make a big difference but then how could I qualify as a card-carrying audiophile if I didn't try?

 

Just now, joelha said:

Is an Sbooster lps a safe option to try with the ER?

Sure Joel. But do have a look at the sections of the EtherREGEN’s User Guide regarding power supplies and grounding.

[Superdad]

5 hours ago, ray-dude said:

Next will be to switch to optical input on the ER to see what that does.   I'll report back when I have more listening time

 

Hi Ray: 

Could you also try eliminating your stock switch--or leave it if it is your only network<router connection--and plug the Mac mini directly into an 'A'-side RJ45 port?

Let us know what you hear.

Thanks,

ALEX

[Superdad]

1 hour ago, ray-dude said:

That being said, I have a very non-conventional setup: I have DAVE directly driving very high efficiency single drivers (104dB sensitivity), and the bass units on the Voxativ's each have dual very high efficiency bass drivers (99dB sensitivity) drive by 200W class AB amp.  These have the fastest cleanest bass I've ever heard (particularly effective for creating a very strong sense for the space a recording was made, and imaging the lower resonances in piano and cello/bass violin).  Upgraded power to the ER is a big win for me, but YMMV.

 

Great report Ray. And I'd love to hear your unique system sometime!   (I don't get down to San Diego very often, though I know it is lovely there.)

[Superdad]

Just now, ray-dude said:

Amazing how the whole gets to be so much more than the sum of the parts.

 

I keep reminding my wife that I am more than the sum of my (aging) parts, but I don't think she is buying it. 

Now where did it put that AbsREGEN device? 

[Superdad]

1 hour ago, jamesg11 said:

What about if I use the js-2 to power a lps1.2 which then powers the ER, as well as the js-2 powering my dac with the other output?

 

That will be fine and won’t defeat the EtherREGEN’s isolation “moat.”  Since the output of the UltraCap supply is its own “floated”/isolated domain, using it to power the ‘A’ side of the EtherREGEN (‘B’ side gets its power over an isolator) won’t have it be common with the DAC.

[Superdad]

So the usually open-minded Paul McGowan (of course of PS Audio, a company I have known and respected for decades) just posted a video on YouTube (https://youtu.be/e8LSLB62R64) and in his Ask Paul VLOG (https://www.psaudio.com/askpaul/will-an-ethernet-switch-matter/), assuring viewers that Ethernet switches don't matter in the least to SQ.

 

This despite the fact that the are at least 40 DirectStream DAC owners enjoying the EtherREGEN, with many reporting that with it they now prefer their DAC's Bridge II Ethernet input over even its USB or even I2S inputs.

 

It is funny too since Paul, Bascom King, and the late Arnie Nudell all owed and enjoyed our USB REGEN at one time, and Ted Smith has written about the validity of some of @JohnSwenson's postulations regarding how PHY receiver chips are affected by ground-plane perturbations. Ted and John really hit it off at RMAF 2015--the same show where Paul had me insert a USB REGEN while a room full of people listened, and then immediately offered to buy the unit 'cause it was staying for the rest of the show.

And lots of PS Audio LANRover users reported about the benefits of powering the receive end of that USB>Ethernet>USB extender with an UltraCap power supply.

 

Now Paul does not specifically reference the EtherREGEN in his video, his only product reference is to the SOtM switch. And he likely has read neither the reviews of the EtherREGEN or our 'white paper.'  I was tempted to just let it go, but then I was browsing his other recent videos and came across this one (https://www.psaudio.com/askpaul/can-we-hear-what-is-not-measurable/) where he too puts forth that there are many variables which humans are able to hear but for which the correct correlation test or test gear does not yet exist.

 

If I was not so swamped with work (15 more JS-2s and 40 more EtherREGENs to build and ship out by April 15th!) I would take the time to compose a polite reply and an offer to send him a unit to audition for himself.  Maybe sometime later.  But perhaps a few of you EtherREGEN (and maybe DS DAC-owning) users might wish to offer a counter perspective in the comments section of either the YouTube or AskPaul video postings.

 

[Superdad]

1 hour ago, hpfish said:

I currently connect a cheap 1m ethernet cable from ER to my streamer, the SQ is good but can be better,  do you have any recommendations for a better Ethernet cable?  

 

Multiple people have reported this particular one as the surprising low cost champion, besting some vastly pricier options.

https://www.cablematters.com/pc-1032-160-sftp-cat8-ethernet-cable-for-10gbps-25gbps-or-40gbps-data-rate.aspx

 

Just $12 at Amazon:  https://www.amazon.com/Cable-Matters-Ethernet-10Gbps-25Gbps/dp/B07NVSSFJ5

[Superdad]

12 minutes ago, ikemi said:

Does anyone know if the UpTone uspcb adaptor is bidirectional i.e. will it still work properly if oriented usb a to usb b instead of the other way around. Sorry if this isn’t the right thread for this but it does involve my etherregen setup in an indirect way. Thanks!

 

Hi Ron:

Sure, our USPCB A>B Adapters are just a circuit board replacement (4-layer, impedance-controlled and shielded) for a USB cable.  It passes data in both directions, so you can turn it any way you wish. (USB is a bi-directional data transfer standard anyway, so regardless of the hook-up data is always going both ways. ).

Best,

--Alex C.

[Superdad]

22 minutes ago, yellowblue said:

Will a PowerAdd battery + Idovr DXP-1A5DSC work well with the ER? I use the Idovr (with SBooster) with my MScaler and it is amazing.

EtherREGEN requires input voltage in range of 7~12V (1.35A @ 7V, 1.0A @ 9V, 0.8A @12V).

LDOVER DC-DC box requires input voltage to be a few volts higher than the output voltage you order.

PowerAdd batteries are only 5V output.

So no, what you propose won't work.

[Superdad]

15 minutes ago, yellowblue said:

I mean the 5-15V version described by Romaz.

15V version of batteries? I don't follow Roy around so I don't know quite what yo are referring to.  You have to feed the LDOVER boxes/boards a little higher than whatever the output is set too. The PowerAdd batteries AFAIK are only 5V (though I suppose one could wire a bunch up in series).

 

If you wish to continue discussion of power supply possibilities for the EtherREGEN, please do so in the below thread as the one we are in is primarily for Installation, Usage, and Difficulty questions. Thanks,

--Alex C.

 

 

[Superdad]

5 hours ago, Blackfiction said:

Does anyone know which size of spade/eye connection I need to buy to ground the ER? Is it a M6?

It is not metric size screw.  It is a #6-32 size.

[Superdad]

2 hours ago, HumanMedia said:

I don’t believe the power supply (Farad3 @ 7v) I use for the ER has a floating ground...

 

It might in fact be floated and you can easily find out for yourself simply with any multimeter with a continuity/beep mode. With the supply unplugged from both the wall and any DC device, touch one probe to the mains ground pin (either the IEC inlet or the ground pin or the mains attached to the PS) and the other probe to outside of the barrel of the attached DC cable. If you get a beep or indication of continuity, then it is not a floating supply.

[Superdad]

1 hour ago, Cable Monkey said:

This was my solution. 
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/184298974528

 

As much as I was hoping the conversation would move on from weights and stands (), I clicked that link and thought it was very cool. Standing our EtherREGEN and UltraCap units on edge does also result in additional airflow and cooling.

 

Then I noticed your link was in the UK and wondered if that adjustable aluminum stand could be had on this side of the pond and in black to match our cases. And guess what?:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B078HNGD92

There is even a double version for just $1 more, though the lack of "social distancing" between units might negate some of the cooling benefits.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07DHJRN5P

[Superdad]

4 minutes ago, Mike Rubin said:

Alex, do you happen to have the ER's height dimension handy for someone too lazy to Google?  I can use a couple of the stands, but I don't want to buy anything that will squeeze the ER case too tightly. 

30mm (about 1-3/16") w/o rubber feet.  And 110mm deep (about 4-5/16").

[Superdad]

2 hours ago, Ken2020 said:

Anyone tried using the SGC 7V 50W to power the EtherRegen? How does it compare to other PS?

SGC imports the Zerozone units. The 50W you refer to is a 7V version of this one:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32881325799.html
Output impedance of those supplies is nothing to write home about.

[Superdad]

19 minutes ago, vortecjr said:

Alex, that is not 100% correct. The SGC supplies were modified for Andrew at his request, there are multiple vendors, various transformer types, true linear power supply, various wattage, on/off switch, single box design with IEC power inlet, CE rating, higher current, in house testing with our gear...

 

Okay. But a long-time mutual customer (who owns a SonicTransporter, ultraRendu, EtherREGEN, opticalRendu, opticalModule, and now JS-2) sent me the 7V/25W SGC LPS that he got from Andrews and had trouble getting to power his EtherREGEN or his opticalRendu (both requiring about 1.35A @7V). It says Zerozone right on the board.

Just as I have found with most of these Chinese supplies, it had great trouble keeping voltage up at anywhere near its current rating.

 

This 25W unit should be able to produce 3.57A at 7V. Here you can see it producing just 6.3V at 3.5A (despite its front indicator showing an aspirational 7.02V):

 

How about a much easier 1.35A--for EtherREGEN or opticalRendu? Just 6.72V:

 

I guess this is why SCG is now offering and recommending the ostensibly "50W" version for the opticalRendu. I mean, a 50W supply should be able to produce over 7A at 7V! Surely the opticalRendu does not need that. Contrast that with the very nice Sonore/Barrows/Belleson 7V/1.5A/10.5W supply. That has no trouble holding up an opticalRendu.  

My point being that those Chinese supplies have inflated ratings. (Zerozone is not too bad; the popular Studer 900 is the worst in this regard.)

 

One final point: Notice in the photos that the IEC inlet of the Small Green Computer/Zerozone 7V/25W supply does not have anything attached to its ground terminal.  That is a safety hazard and will not meet any safety certifications!

 

 

[Superdad]

21 minutes ago, simon_pepper said:

Is the effect on the power supply on an EtherREGEN that critical?

 

No it is not. Or at least not near as critical as it is for other types of devices such at the Rendus--which really respond wonderfully to power supplies with extremely low broadband output impedance.

 

(And the EtherREGEN draws just 0.8A at 12V, so not a problem for even your inflated-wattage-spec Chinese supply. Even if the voltage droops a bit (owing to perhaps what you have connected to the other rail), that would stay within the EtherREGEN's range, even if the current draw creeps up a bit as the voltage drops down.)

[Superdad]

6 minutes ago, simon_pepper said:

Other than the one supplied, does Uptone have a recommendation as enhanced supply for the EtherRegen?

 

While an upgraded PS is not required to appreciate most all the benefits of the advanced EtherREGEN, some people do enjoy it a tad bit more with one.

At 12 volts the EtherREGEN draws just 0.8A, so it is open to a wide range of quality power supplies.

 

Some suggestions include:

• UpTone's own supercap & LT3045-based 1.1A UltraCap LPS-1.2 (user adjustable to 5/7/9/12V--set to 12V for EtherREGEN) at $435;
• Sonore's custom 1.5A/7V Belleson-based supply (built by Barrows Worm in Colorado) at $529;
• One of Teddy Pardo's TeddyReg-based 2A supplies at $369;
• Or perhaps a nice Paul Hynes Design SR4T at about $550.

[Superdad]

9 hours ago, JohnSwenson said:

This is really good cable, it should make a superb DC cable.

 

Yeah, we’ve been eyeing this foamed FEP dielectric cable for a while now.  Maybe I should invest in a 500-foot spool of it and offer nice DC cables made with it. Have to see what sort of price Chris VenHaus can come up with for a bulk buy and what the aerospace cable assembly firm I now use says about labor cost.

[Superdad]

48 minutes ago, Frojo said:

I have an SBooster 9-10V MK1 which i ran my etheregen from- plain sailing at 9V until i added an SFP module and started to get dropouts... had to increase the voltage to 10.5.

 

Well that seems a little odd since at 9V an EtherREGEN draws just 1.0A (okay, maybe add 0.2A or so for an SFP transceiver), and the Sbooster manual claims 2.5A capability at 9V.

But as long as it is working for you... 

[Superdad]

4 hours ago, wizardofoz said:

Im wondering if anyone has tried this - use 2 devices on the B side....I have 2 Lumin D1 streamers, one is directly connected to the B side with A side fed by SFP fibre from a Unifi 24port switch. A side also has my Roon ROCK server attached. ROCK, ER and Lumin all powered by isolated outputs of an HDPlex 200W LMPS.

 

We suggest you avoid putting any other switches (or FMCs) between the EtherREGEN and your DAC-attached endpoints as such will greatly reduce the benefits of our device.

While I can't say I completely follow what you are attempting or suggesting, I will offer this:

 

Since the EtherREGEN's performance (data/power/clocking) is symmetrical on both sides of it's "moat" (other than number of ports and the 'B' side being 100Mbps-only), B>A is just as good as A>B (we went to the trouble and expense to make it so that fiber "out" the 'A' side to an opticalRendu would be as good, but other use cases--such as yours--have come up).  So you can run the network into the 'B' port and then two cables out the 'A' side to your Lumin D1 streamers.

Give that a try and see hear how it sounds. 

 

[Superdad]

32 minutes ago, kennyb123 said:

A loom, eh?

 

Yes, if you have a loom you can weave beautiful things with wire...

 

Could be useful for wrapping a durable CAT(6) scratching post!