The EtherREGEN thread for various network, cable, power experiences and experiments

[Jud]

Currently I have a cable modem connected to a router with Monoprice Cat 8; then the router connected to the ER with Monoprice Cat 6a with plastic connectors to avoid the "upstream" ground link to the ER. 

 

At some point probably between now and March, in place of the cable modem and router I will install a gateway (combined modem and router) with Wi-Fi 6 capability. https://www.netgear.com/home/products/networking/cable-modems-routers/cax80.aspx

 

Are shield-linked metal connectors required to achieve Cat 7 or Cat 8 specifications? Or to ask more specifically, does anyone know of any Cat 7 or Cat 8 cables with plastic connectors, or don't these exist? If they do exist, I might be interested in trying one between the gateway and the ER.

[MikePid]

I’ve had the ER for just over a week and I’ve been really enjoying it. Tonight I just replaced the stock power supply with a spare SGC LPS I had lying around. Wow, the “ER factor” just went up by about 50%!  Super deep bass, better soundstage, etc.  Swapping the Meanwell back in shrunk the soundstage and added some spongeyness to the bass. And previously I thought the ER with stock PS was amazing already.  I’m using a Pangea 14SE MkII power cord into the LPS.  

[lpost]

51 minutes ago, Jud said:

Are shield-linked metal connectors required to achieve Cat 7 or Cat 8 specifications? Or to ask more specifically, does anyone know of any Cat 7 or Cat 8 cables with plastic connectors, or don't these exist? If they do exist, I might be interested in trying one between the gateway and the ER.

 

Yes, CAT 7 and 8 are both shielded (STP) designs and require the metal shielded connectors, as does 6A STP (as opposed to 6A UTP).  

 

There are other variants of shielding:

 

Individual shield (U/FTP)

Individual shielding with aluminum foil for each twisted pair or quad. Common names: pair in metal foil, shielded twisted pair, screened twisted pair. This type of shielding protects cable from external EMI entering or exiting the cable and also protects neighboring pairs from crosstalk.

Overall shield (F/UTP, S/UTP, and SF/UTP)

Overall foil, braided shield or braiding with foil across all of the pairs within the 100 ohm twisted pair cable. Common names: foiled twisted pair, shielded twisted pair, screened twisted pair. This type of shielding helps prevent EMI from entering or exiting the cable.

Individual and overall shield (F/FTP, S/FTP, and SF/FTP)

Individual shielding using foil between the twisted pair sets, and also an outer foil or braided shielding. Common names: fully shielded twisted pair, screened foiled twisted pair, shielded foiled twisted pair, screened shielded twisted pair, shielded screened twisted pair. This type of shielding helps prevent EMI from entering or exiting the cable and also protects neighboring pairs from crosstalk.

 

Shielded Cat 5e, Cat 6/6A, and Cat 8/8.1 cables typically have F/UTP construction, while shielded Cat 7/7A and Cat 8.2 cables use S/FTP construction

 

U = unshielded

F = foil shielding

S = braided shielding (outer layer only)

TP = twisted pair

TQ = twisted pair, individual shielding in quads

[kelvinwsy]

Hi there - we all have the option to apply varnish(Wife's nail polish will suffice!) to break the conductive link with the metal end connectors. I did not wish to take the option to remove the metal casing of the end connector - It will become loose and create a bad electrical connection. Tested it without and then with the varnish on the end connector. Makes a big difference to my ears. Sound stage collapses (FLAT!) as is and improves a lot with the multiple coatings of varnish. You will have to hard bake it in using a hair dryer or heat gun. Varnish is abraided when you push in the connector. I see wear marks when I pull it out to test. Had to revarnish. 

The swap of Cat 8 from my HQPlayer Server to the Ether Regen and SOTM Ultra Neo to the EtherRegen beats out the Cat 6 used before. The Ether Regen A-B side Moat should be able to take care of the Earth leakage if any from the varnished End connectors. But I am not so sure for the Upstream connections whether Cat 8 is better than the Cat 6 I have been using so far. It is for this reason I have decided to make more modded Cat 8 cables to swap with my Cat 6 UTP cables (plastic connectors) which go between my ASUS AC86 and my Netgear GS105 and then on to the Ether Regen. This test is still on hold as my supply of ferrite cores ran out. But I believe the benefits of twisted wires in the Cat 8 I am using may not overcome the Earth Leakage from the metal connector casings. The varnish is not a permanent solution as it get abraided in push in connnection even for the first time. How much leakage happens through those abraisons I cannot tell. 

I will report back if anyone interested to hear my test of Cat6 modded vs Cat 8 modded (JSSG360/Earth wire/Ferrite Cores) between my Asus, GS105 and the Ether Regen. Will take 1 month as I am on long vacations and out of Ferrite cores for the moment.

Happy Listening to All

Kelvin

[Mike Rubin]

1 hour ago, Jud said:

Currently I have a cable modem connected to a router with Monoprice Cat 8; then the router connected to the ER with Monoprice Cat 6a with plastic connectors to avoid the "upstream" ground link to the ER. 

 

At some point probably between now and March, in place of the cable modem and router I will install a gateway (combined modem and router) with Wi-Fi 6 capability. https://www.netgear.com/home/products/networking/cable-modems-routers/cax80.aspx

 

Are shield-linked metal connectors required to achieve Cat 7 or Cat 8 specifications? Or to ask more specifically, does anyone know of any Cat 7 or Cat 8 cables with plastic connectors, or don't these exist? If they do exist, I might be interested in trying one between the gateway and the ER.

I am running CAT8 into the ER’s B side port and am coming out from an SFP using an optical cable.  Is that the equivalent for these purposes of what Jud is doing or am I subject to ground issues even though my CAT8 is upstream?  From an SQ perspective, I don’t know that I hear a significant difference between plastic-terminated CAT6A and metal-shielded CAT8 but I don’t know how ground faults would manifest in this setting.

[octaviars]

3 hours ago, Jud said:

Are shield-linked metal connectors required to achieve Cat 7 or Cat 8 specifications? Or to ask more specifically, does anyone know of any Cat 7 or Cat 8 cables with plastic connectors, or don't these exist? If they do exist, I might be interested in trying one between the gateway and the ER.

 

CAT6A STP, CAT7, CAT7A and CAT8 all have the shield tied at both ends so I think it will be hard to find one with plastic plugs.

 

I bought a bulk CAT7A cable and some of the new Telegärtners MFP 8.1 connectors and built my own cable. The shield is only tied in the end that is in my dCS Network bridge the other is floating at the eR B-side. As the dCS is grounded to mains earth via it's power plug the shield will drain that way.

 

Both cable and connectors are really easy to work with and the cost is around €1 per meter cable and around €20 per connector here in Europe. 

 

 

 

The heatshrink presents the sheild from geting in touch with the housing. 

 

 

[Nicoben45]

With a simple (and surprisingly good sounding) small Monoprice Cat5e cable, the SQ goes a bit further with the use of Telegartner connectors (high quality metal connector but unshielded cable) instead of the factory plastic ones. Maybe vibrations and benefit of metal shield a the switch, but without a shielded cable.
 

Of course removing the shield of a good cable at the switch end connector is great (protected with plumber teflon or thermo jacket), but some unshielded cable tests can be worth the test time or small money engaged, in my humble opinion.

[Jud]

Thank you all for your responses. I wonder how nail polish on one connector (which is what I'd use) would affect the cable's performance relative to spec (not necessarily with respect to audio). I do have a couple of Cat 8 cables to play with.

[Jud]

6 hours ago, octaviars said:

CAT6A STP, CAT7, CAT7A and CAT8 all have the shield tied at both ends so I think it will be hard to find one with plastic plugs.

 

Monoprice Slimrun Cat 6a and Belden Cat 6a from Blue Jeans Cable both have plastic connectors as I recall.

[octaviars]

37 minutes ago, Jud said:

 

Monoprice Slimrun Cat 6a and Belden Cat 6a from Blue Jeans Cable both have plastic connectors as I recall.

 

Yes if they are CAT6A UTP unshielded but if they are CAT6A FTP they are shielded. CAT6A can be both unshielded or shielded in some way.

 

You have many different types CAT cable besides the category.

 

U/UTP (no sheild at all)

F/UTP (sheild around all pair)

U/FTP (sheild around each pair)

S/FTP (sheild around each pair and sheild around all pairs)

 

The letters describe how the cable is sheilded. First letter is all four pairs and the following three letters is around each pair.

 

The cable I use is a CAT7A S/FTP.

[auricgoldfinger]

DIY types may be interested in this cable:  https://viablue.de/com/cables_ep7_ethernet.php

 

They can also be purchased as finished cables.

[RickyV]

5 hours ago, auricgoldfinger said:

DIY types may be interested in this cable:  https://viablue.de/com/cables_ep7_ethernet.php

 

They can also be purchased as finished cables.

Have you compared this one to the supra cat 8? 

[auricgoldfinger]

21 minutes ago, RickyV said:

Have you compared this one to the supra cat 8? 

 

No, I haven't.

[cat6man]

On 1/23/2020 at 3:52 PM, RickyV said:

I am sitting a bit on the sideline waiting how this optical feeding of the ER pans out but sound promising with these attenuators. I was wondering if the guys who play with the optical rendu know about this.

 

i have an eR and an oR and just received some 5dB and 10dB optical attenuators in the mail, so I'll be checking that out........stay tuned

[soares]

9 hours ago, auricgoldfinger said:

DIY types may be interested in this cable:  https://viablue.de/com/cables_ep7_ethernet.php

 

They can also be purchased as finished cables.

They look fantastic! And the prices very competitive. Have you tried them?

 

[auricgoldfinger]

1 hour ago, soares said:

They look fantastic! And the prices very competitive. Have you tried them?

 

 

I use these cables for my network backbone to provide general hygiene and maintain signal integrity.  They have never been my "audio" Ethernet cable, which I consider to be the last and most critical in the digital chain, even though the materials and construction certainly qualify them as candidates for that role.

[magnuska]

On 1/23/2020 at 9:16 PM, skatbelt said:

 

Hi Lucie, I am in the Netherlands and on Ziggo too. My wifi-modem-router is a Cisco EPC 3928 with a 15V/2.0A SMPS. May be I should try replacing its SMPS with a LPS too and see what it brings to the table. A question though: did you try other Ethernet cables besides the Supra cat 7? I ask because the shielding (via the metal connector housings) could lead to noise distribution to the ER.

 

Hi !

 

For my fiber modem I  changed the included smps  for a another smps I had lying around to a FRIWO medical https://www.friwo-shop.de/en/medical-power-supplies/interchangeable-plug-power-supplies/67/mpp15-medical?c=16688&number=1883258

And no doubt that it was better.  I have also been thinking of adding an LPS to that modem and try ATL audio https://www.atlhifi.com/shop/fully-assembled-devices/linear-power-supply-unit-l-100/

 

I would need a 12 volt supply. 

[magnuska]

16 hours ago, auricgoldfinger said:

DIY types may be interested in this cable:  https://viablue.de/com/cables_ep7_ethernet.php

 

They can also be purchased as finished cables.

 

I bought this finished cable from Audiophonics, France. https://www.audiophonics.fr/en/ethernet-rj45-cables/audiophonics-patch-cable-network-rj45-ethernet-high-end-cat-7-1m-p-7175.html I asked them about the shield if that is tied or floating but did not get any answer I suspect it is tied. It sounds good though.

[magnuska]

On 1/24/2020 at 3:35 AM, Jud said:

Currently I have a cable modem connected to a router with Monoprice Cat 8; then the router connected to the ER with Monoprice Cat 6a with plastic connectors to avoid the "upstream" ground link to the ER. 

 

At some point probably between now and March, in place of the cable modem and router I will install a gateway (combined modem and router) with Wi-Fi 6 capability. https://www.netgear.com/home/products/networking/cable-modems-routers/cax80.aspx

 

Are shield-linked metal connectors required to achieve Cat 7 or Cat 8 specifications? Or to ask more specifically, does anyone know of any Cat 7 or Cat 8 cables with plastic connectors, or don't these exist? If they do exist, I might be interested in trying one between the gateway and the ER.

Hi Jud

 

What do you think of this CAT 8 from Ghent? Shield tied or floating?

http://www.ghentaudio.com/pc/et12.html

 

Regards Magnus

[octaviars]

26 minutes ago, magnuska said:

Hi Jud

 

What do you think of this CAT 8 from Ghent? Shield tied or floating?

http://www.ghentaudio.com/pc/et12.html

 

Regards Magnus

 

All Ghent LAN cables have the shield floating.

[Confused]

On 1/24/2020 at 1:28 AM, JohnSwenson said:

Just look at the rated distance compared to what you will be using. The ones you are using are rated at 40KM, the SX ones are rated at 500M. Those 40KM ones need a very powerful laser to reach that distance, with a short cable (like what you would have in a house) it is severe overkill and can fry the receiver. The 500M ones have a much lower power laser which works fine with the short cables we use for audio.

 

There MAY be things that make the 40KM ones better (maybe better receivers etc, I have no clue what is inside) that might make it worth it, but I would start with the SX ones get familiar with them and then later try playing with the ones that seem a little out there for this purpose.

 

John S.

So just to clarify this point, if you use a SX spec copper ethernet to fibre media converter, with a SX SFP module and say 1m of fibre cable, everything should be "within spec" with respect to laser power and the EtherRegen's requirements etc.?  Have I got this right?

[Arpiben]

41 minutes ago, Confused said:

So just to clarify this point, if you use a SX spec copper ethernet to fibre media converter, with a SX SFP module and say 1m of fibre cable, everything should be "within spec" with respect to laser power and the EtherRegen's requirements etc.?  Have I got this right?

 

No need to worry about receive power when dealing with SX & LX SFPs even with short fiber cables. 

Do not use inappropriate optical transceivers for distances of 40km and above for home audio applications: it makes no sense.😉

[Jud]

On 1/23/2020 at 8:19 PM, lpost said:

 

Yes, CAT 7 and 8 are both shielded (STP) designs and require the metal shielded connectors, as does 6A STP (as opposed to 6A UTP).  

 

There are other variants of shielding:

 

Individual shield (U/FTP)

Individual shielding with aluminum foil for each twisted pair or quad. Common names: pair in metal foil, shielded twisted pair, screened twisted pair. This type of shielding protects cable from external EMI entering or exiting the cable and also protects neighboring pairs from crosstalk.

Overall shield (F/UTP, S/UTP, and SF/UTP)

Overall foil, braided shield or braiding with foil across all of the pairs within the 100 ohm twisted pair cable. Common names: foiled twisted pair, shielded twisted pair, screened twisted pair. This type of shielding helps prevent EMI from entering or exiting the cable.

Individual and overall shield (F/FTP, S/FTP, and SF/FTP)

Individual shielding using foil between the twisted pair sets, and also an outer foil or braided shielding. Common names: fully shielded twisted pair, screened foiled twisted pair, shielded foiled twisted pair, screened shielded twisted pair, shielded screened twisted pair. This type of shielding helps prevent EMI from entering or exiting the cable and also protects neighboring pairs from crosstalk.

 

Shielded Cat 5e, Cat 6/6A, and Cat 8/8.1 cables typically have F/UTP construction, while shielded Cat 7/7A and Cat 8.2 cables use S/FTP construction

 

U = unshielded

F = foil shielding

S = braided shielding (outer layer only)

TP = twisted pair

TQ = twisted pair, individual shielding in quads

 

On 1/24/2020 at 5:44 AM, octaviars said:

 

Yes if they are CAT6A UTP unshielded but if they are CAT6A FTP they are shielded. CAT6A can be both unshielded or shielded in some way.

 

You have many different types CAT cable besides the category.

 

U/UTP (no sheild at all)

F/UTP (sheild around all pair)

U/FTP (sheild around each pair)

S/FTP (sheild around each pair and sheild around all pairs)

 

The letters describe how the cable is sheilded. First letter is all four pairs and the following three letters is around each pair.

 

The cable I use is a CAT7A S/FTP.

 

7 hours ago, magnuska said:

Hi Jud

 

What do you think of this CAT 8 from Ghent? Shield tied or floating?

http://www.ghentaudio.com/pc/et12.html

 

Regards Magnus

Hi Magnus - The product page you linked says S/FTP, so according to the two very helpful (thanks!) posts I have quoted above yours, the shields would be tied, as apparently would be the case with all Cat7 and Cat8, and many Cat6a cables.

[octaviars]

15 minutes ago, Jud said:

Hi Magnus - The product page you linked says S/FTP, so according to the two very helpful (thanks!) posts I have quoted above yours, the shields would be tied,

 

Ghent uses S/FTP cable but over the cable he puts another shield and connect the shields at the ends so it has whats called a JSSG 360 shield but it is not connected in the metall connectors at any end. 

 

Just because the cable is a S/FTP for example does not mean that the shield has to be connected in the connectors even if the standard says it should be. 

 

I own some of the original ET11 Ghent cables and asked him about his new ET12 how they are made. I then decided to build my own and not buy the new ET12.

[Jud]

22 minutes ago, octaviars said:

 

Ghent uses S/FTP cable but over the cable he puts another shield and connect the shields at the ends so it has whats called a JSSG 360 shield but it is not connected in the metall connectors at any end. 

 

Just because the cable is a S/FTP for example does not mean that the shield has to be connected in the connectors even if the standard says it should be. 

 

I own some of the original ET11 Ghent cables and asked him about his new ET12 how they are made. I then decided to build my own and not buy the new ET12.

Right, the outer JSSG360 shield isn’t connected, but without any reason to doubt I assume the inner Cat8 cable does have shields connected to the metal clad terminations.

 

I will use one of two simple cheap expedients, the Monoprice Slimrun 6a with plastic connectors, or the Monoprice Cat 8 with nail polish on one of the metal connectors.