The EtherREGEN thread for various network, cable, power experiences and experiments

[kennyb123]

How long has it taken for the Cable Matters CAT8 to burn in?  There were about 12 hours of constant music playback through it prior to my start of listening this morning.  At first it sounded surprisingly good.  Ultimately I found myself agitated by something it was doing - so I switched back to my regular cable, WW Starlight.  Whatever had been bothering me was gone and the sound quality overall was better.  I'll next try to let it run in somewhere further from my system so I don't have to sit through that again.  Just curious how long I should give it.

[kelvinwsy]

Ha! Reporting back after 80hours burn in

👍😁 I applied 2 more coats of nail polish on the end metal connectors and used my heat gun to burn it hard !

The cat 8 sounds great ! A tad better bass punch snd extension, Hifreq more air ; Sound stage deep and wide😁

Conclusion. Cat .8 is good but JSSG 360, earth linkage connection , Varnish the metal connectors, And most important Ferrite cores!

I hv 3 more Cat 8 in my inventory but will need up to 20 nos of 7-9 mm ferrite cores

Happy DIY Days ahead

[Meridimac]

Here is one more data-point-in-time of first impressions as I burn in a few cables while waiting for January ER delivery:

 

Cable Matters Cat8 1 meter from Cisco 2960 into Allo DigiOne Signature feeding Meridian active SE speakers has dynamics, definition, deep soundstage and satisfying bottom end -but can be a little sharp at times as described by BCRich earlier in this thread.

 

My usual cable in the same spot, Shunyata Venom, is not quite as lively as the CM but consistently listenable.

 

A 7-foot Tera Grand Cat7 premium (not flat) is less defined, much more forward and lacks bass in comparison.

 

A 3-foot "solid copper" CertiCable New Technology Cat8 is also somewhat forward, but pleasantly so, with a wide soundstage and slightly brittle top end at this point.

 

I will report again on these four once they have many more hours and ER replaces my Cisco Catalyst.

[Thmoas]

I know every system is different but do we have a consensus on this:

is it recommended to invest in a fancy cable to connect the ER to the streamer? 

I’m going to grab a few cheap cat5/cat6 cables on amazon to see what unshielded (untied) cables can do. 

For now I’m using cat7 cables with metal telegartner connectors both between router and ER and between ER and streamer. 

The router is the only device connected to the A side, so leakage should not be (too much of) an issue for me as stated in the user guide.

 I tried a cheap Belkin cable with plastic connectors on the A side and it did some things better than the cat7 (viablue + telegartner) in terms of tones and liveliness. Still I ended keeping the cat7 on both sides: it is a little bit more restrained but also more controled with added clarity.

 

I’m considering the inakustik referenz (about $180) for the B side but I’m going to experiment with cheap cables first.

[magnuska]

Hi Thmoas,

 

In my experience focusing too much on cables, whether its power, USB or ethernet cables has not ever proved to

be that revolutionary upgrade to hope for. In all fairness I have not tried the highest end of cables even If I have the top signature cables from Audiosensibility that I think have a sane ratio of price vs performance.

Anyway when it comes to ethernet cables my latest trial is the cable matters cat 8 that many uses here and that seems like a cable as good as my previous Ghent audio JSSG , Sablon , Supra Cat 8 and like you Viablue with Telegärtner for a lot less money. IMHO I believe spending money elsewhere in the hifichain is more important than cables. Perhaps a good hifirack and or feet is a wiser choice, and not forget amps and speakers...

 

There is a long thread going on at the Naim forum where some seems to like Designacable cat 5 or cat 6

 

[Thmoas]

Hi Magnus, 

 

thanks I’m going to check the cables you mention. I did hear differences between the various Ethernet cables I tried even if I never spent more than 60 euros for each. But I still have to assess the impact of ER on cables (or the opposite). 

 

Thomas 

[magnuska]

Nice Thomas,

 

I am waiting for my ER to arrive in january. Will replace the AQVOX SE switch if all turns out like I hope😉

 

Look forward to hear your feedback of the ER + cables in due time.

[cat6man]

On 1/3/2020 at 6:33 PM, lmitche said:

Hi Cat6man,

 

Your comment brings a smile to my face. When saying that digital cable impact on SQ amazes me, the last thing I meant was to imply is that digital cables are the only thing that leads to amazing SQ.

 

After 5 years of reading 10,000 of posts, posting thousands myself and trying many 100's of experiments, I agree, we do not understand many of the underlying mechanisms that impact SQ. I share your frustration with this situation. Nevertheless, we have developed a set of best practices that work. 

 

First, we have collectively crowd sourced the development and production of unique solutions like the Uptone ISO Regen, ER Regen and LPS1.2 that deliver substantial sound quality enhancements by reducing noise, isolating grounds and re-clocking digital signals. The impact of these devices has stood the test of time, and happily the level of commercial success has created enough incentive for these talented people to continue the work. There have been many other companies that have imitated the Uptone devices, another sign of success.

 

Linear power supply companies, like Hdplex, Paul Hynes, Farad and others continue to innovate based on demand generated from these pages.

 

Likewise on the cable front, innovations like the Ghent DC cabling, or the Phasure Lush cables, are all based on the JSSG360 ideas offered by John Swenson and further developed and validated by members here.

 

Software solutions like Roon, Audiolinux, and Euphony continue to make incremental SQ gains with the help of our members.

 

Lastly we are getting much better at finding the most sensitive parts of the chain, to prioritize the next set of tweaks to enhance SQ. Knowing this guides efforts to find incremental SQ gains from cabling, network configuration, software and hardware tweaks. We have also proven that these enhancements can be replicated and shared with others that validate the enhancements by hearing the same impact. 

 

I suspect that someday sooner rather then later, John and/or Alex will be able to definitively tells us what is happening.

 

But in the meantime, SQ is at a very high level with clarity, image density and subtle detail that creates a spine tingling perception of realistic presence, a noise floor in the basement and musical enjoyment that is beyond my best expectations. I don't know how much further we have to go, but any progress from here will be gravy.

 

Thanks again for the smile and Happy New Year,

 

Larry

 

 

 

Larry,

 

We're absolutely on the same page here.

 

True story (you can find my old posts somewhere)

 

Once upon a time (really!), I had achieved the absolute best SQ I had ever heard.

It was so good, I commented that "if it got any better, my head would explode".

 

Soundstage, depth, resolution, ease, endless decays and such constantly bringing smiles to my face as I listened to familiar tracks, just luxuriating in the sound.  Another way I described the 'magic' at the time was that it 'slowed time down' so that I was hearing detail and decay and interplay between instruments as if in slow motion.

 

............then I made some "this should be better" changes and lost the "magic" formula and have been slowly working my way back to it.  Steps that have helped me get back partway to my 'magical ideal' are NUC/hdplex200 with audio-linux, ramroot, SR-4 power supply on opticalRendu, lps-1.2 on opticalModule, lps-1.2 on isoRegen, lush^2 usb cable...............etherRegen to arrive in a couple of weeks.

All of these have produced steps back towards where I used to be but I'm not quite there yet.

 

Where was I before:

50ft cat6 ethernet cable to ultraRendu with Sonore battery, uRendu usb output (light harmonic split dc cable) to dx-usbHD (convert to aes/ebu) to DAC, all running hqplayer embedded (NUC/wall-wart smps, shared with sageTV server) with no signal processing (just moving renderer off the Rendu, running as NAA).  given the attention i've profitably paid to cables and power supplies this past year, it seems that I had inadvertently landed at a lucky minimal noise spot with the battery powered stuff and cabling.

 

then i foolishly changed power supplies, usb/aes-ebu converter, usb cables, etc and lost the soundstage magic and have been carefully (now at least, should have been more careful before!!) moving back in that direction......i'm hoping the etherRegen gets me the rest of the way back, as the descriptions i'm hearing (and the improvements i've made this past year after going down the rabbit hole of the mega-thread) match my own.

 

lesson learned:  keep track of what you're doing/changing and NEVER screw with changes you can't reverse.

[kelvinwsy]

This is a cheap option to try for Cat8 cable . the conductors are twisted pair and is affordable at 30 usd per 1 meter length

Top grade construction

[sandervdp]

hi all,

 

I received the Farad Power Supply a couple of weeks ago. From the start, there was a noticeable improvement. @Superdad is right that you don't need fancy power supplies, as the EtherRegen itself already is a considerable improvement. But the Farad sure brings out more of the good stuff.

 

The Farad comes standard with a generic DC cable. I'm thinking of ordering a better version. Now I'm confused about what I've read. In the post from @JohnSwenson about DC cables, he recommends thick wires, star quad configuration, e.g. the Ghent Canare 4s6.

 

However, I remember Alex mentioning he thinks the Gotham GAC4/1 is a good option. which is also star quad, but using a lot of tiny 38AWG conductors to make only 22AWG. And if I look at the Farad cables, their best cable (level 2) is also made of thinner wires run in parallel, which seems to run counter to John's advice?

 

So my question, in this setup (farad to etherregen) what would be the better option out of these three; the higher gauge Canare 4s6 JSSG360, the Gotham GAC4/1 UltraPro JSSG360 or Farad's own option using lots of thin, tin plated copper wire?

 

 

 

[auricgoldfinger]

3 hours ago, sandervdp said:

So my question, in this setup (farad to etherregen) what would be the better option out of these three; the higher gauge Canare 4s6 JSSG360, the Gotham GAC4/1 UltraPro JSSG360 or Farad's own option using lots of thin, tin plated copper wire?

 

Audio Sensibility Signature Silver > Farad Level 2 > the other two options you mention.  Big delta between AS Signature Silver and Farad Level 2.

 

https://audiosensibility.com/blog/sotm-audio/#!/Signature-Silver-DC-Cable/p/102469015

[soares]

From my limited experience ( some Ghent and DC-4), I also recommend the signature silver cable. Thank you again Brian for your advice... 

Cheers Jorge

[Nicoben45]

You may use some Duelund dca 16 or 20 oiled tin copper wires, simple and good sounding choice.

[Mike Rubin]

3 hours ago, Nicoben45 said:

You may use some Duelund dca 16 or 20 oiled tin copper wires, simple and good sounding choice.

I never have had Dueland-based power cables, but I use Dueland-based IC’s and USB cables.  To my ears, they’re incredible bang for a pretty low-cost buck in that application.  If someone’s making Duelund DC cables, I would love to try one.

[Jud]

On 1/5/2020 at 2:50 AM, kennyb123 said:

How long has it taken for the Cable Matters CAT8 to burn in?  There were about 12 hours of constant music playback through it prior to my start of listening this morning.  At first it sounded surprisingly good.  Ultimately I found myself agitated by something it was doing - so I switched back to my regular cable, WW Starlight.  Whatever had been bothering me was gone and the sound quality overall was better.  I'll next try to let it run in somewhere further from my system so I don't have to sit through that again.  Just curious how long I should give it.

For me, unusually long. I’d give it a good 4 days.

[HumanMedia]

10 hours ago, sandervdp said:

hi all,

 

I received the Farad Power Supply a couple of weeks ago. From the start, there was a noticeable improvement. @Superdad is right that you don't need fancy power supplies, as the EtherRegen itself already is a considerable improvement. But the Farad sure brings out more of the good stuff.

 

So my question, in this setup (farad to etherregen) what would be the better option out of these three; the higher gauge Canare 4s6 JSSG360, the Gotham GAC4/1 UltraPro JSSG360 or Farad's own option using lots of thin, tin plated copper wire?

 

 

 

I am poised to get another Farad for the ER. How would you describe the differences  to the stock supply? And which voltage did you go with? I can’t decide between the 7v or 9v.

 

Also re cables, I have 2 Gotham’s unused as they add midrange richness but also crunchy highs which I couldn’t live with. The Canare 4S6 was more neutral but light on bass and underwhelming. The best low cost cable for me is the Canare 4S8, which is a higher gauge (thicker) version of the 4S6. No negatives. But I haven’t tried the Audio Sensibility Silver...

 

[McNulty]

16 hours ago, HumanMedia said:

I am poised to get another Farad for the ER. How would you describe the differences  to the stock supply? And which voltage did you go with? I can’t decide between the 7v or 9v.

 

Any reason why you don’t mention 12v as a third option?

[sandervdp]

@HumanMedia I find the differences between Farad and SMPS hard to describe. It's similar to what the EtherRegen itself brings; music is easier to listen to, more stress free. Once you remove a certain amount of noise, you hear more of the original music. I find it easiest to hear with string instruments and vocals. It sounds more like the real thing. That's what the ER was doing, and that's what a better power supply for the ER is doing (and also what I2S was doing vs USB in my system). 

 

The SMPS was in the same (dedicated) circuit as my streamer, dac and amp, so part of the improvement might also result from less switching mode noise going into those components, don't know. 

 

I do have the Farad configured as a 12v, so Incus's comments in the other thread preferring 7v over 12v have me slightly worried ;) But I think either is fine, and I do remember John Swenson recommending 12v for an ER power supply (can't seem to find that thread now, but it's here on AS somewhere)

 

Thanks all for the tips on dc cables, will go with the cheaper Neotech 7N solid core copper for now, and will definitely try the audio sensibility solid core silver some day..

 

[Confused]

On 11/18/2019 at 9:53 PM, MarkS said:

I’m thinking really hard about the Musec Ref 10 clock and look forward to hearing from anyone with one connected to the ER. 

I have just tried this, and find myself pleasantly surprised by the result, see link:

 

Has anyone else tried similar?

[stevebythebay]

For those of you running with external clocking, have you found that clock cables make a difference?  If so, which ones actually do enhance the performance and SQ of the clock?

[auricgoldfinger]

1 hour ago, stevebythebay said:

For those of you running with external clocking, have you found that clock cables make a difference?  If so, which ones actually do enhance the performance and SQ of the clock?

 

There is discussion of different cables in the REF 10 thread: 

I use the Habst Digital BNC, which I prefer to the SOtM dCBL-BNC and the generic cables from the engineering supply houses.  In the Mutec thread, people have done comparisons of a few generic cables.

 

EDIT:  At the moment, I am using a Blaxius^2 to re-clock my ER.

 

[kennyb123]

On 1/6/2020 at 12:13 PM, Jud said:

For me, unusually long. I’d give it a good 4 days.

I had allowed my Cable Matters CAT8 cable to burn in by using it downstairs in the wiring closet between router and patch panel connection to my listening room.  It got 4-5 days of use.  This morning I have been listening to it between my ER and Zenith.  Add me to the list of folks who are impressed by how good this cable sounds.  I prefer it to the WW Starlight.  They are  very close - which says a lot given the price difference - but the CM cable is better balanced with better dimensionally.  
 

[kennyb123]

In the Taiko Audio SGM Extreme thread on WBF, Emile from Taiko had recommended some fiber products that were found to work well the Extreme server.  A friend had installed these over the weekend, and reported being delighted with the results.  He doesn't yet have an ER, so I wasn't sure how well his results would transfer over to my situation.  Nonetheless, I took the plunge and ordered two Startech SFPs, a Startech FMC, and a run of fiber.  This would replace a 7m run of Wireworld Chroma from wall to the ER.

 

Right out of the box, there were very obvious improvements in clarity and ease.  Quantity of bass increased too - and maybe a slight hard edge was added.  In terms of the hard edge, hopefully some burn-in helps reduce that.  It should be noted that I'm using the stock SMPS with the StarTech FMC so that's less ideal, but it's plugged into a different circuit from the rest of my audio system.  On the plus side, the improved clarity has been taking my breath away.

 

The obvious takeaway for me here is that the cabling that feeds the ER can still matter.   I will be sticking with the fiber for the time being but plan to see what kind of improvement might come from using the Sonore opticalModule in place of the Startech FMC.  

 

These are the parts I used:

 

SFP:  https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0747WZ8LZ/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

Fiber: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0099S4WYE/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

FMC:  https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B011KH1O1U/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&th=1

 

Note:  I believe Emile might have actually recommended the "chassis mount" FMC variant that follows.  This wasn't immediately available at Amazon so I chose the "no chassis" variant.  I'm not sure how much this matters.  https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00FWJMTXU/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

Hat tip to @zettelsm for taking the lead on this.  

 

[soares]

1 hour ago, kennyb123 said:

In the Taiko Audio SGM Extreme thread on WBF, Emile from Taiko had recommended some fiber products that were found to work well the Extreme server.  A friend had installed these over the weekend, and reported being delighted with the results.  He doesn't yet have an ER, so I wasn't sure how well his results would transfer over to my situation.  Nonetheless, I took the plunge and ordered two Startech SFPs, a Startech FMC, and a run of fiber.  This would replace a 7m run of Wireworld Chroma from wall to the ER.

 

Right out of the box, there were very obvious improvements in clarity and ease.  Quantity of bass increased too - and maybe a slight hard edge was added.  In terms of the hard edge, hopefully some burn-in helps reduce that.  It should be noted that I'm using the stock SMPS with the StarTech FMC so that's less ideal, but it's plugged into a different circuit from the rest of my audio system.  On the plus side, the improved clarity has been taking my breath away.

 

The obvious takeaway for me here is that the cabling that feeds the ER can still matter.   I will be sticking with the fiber for the time being but plan to see what kind of improvement might come from using the Sonore opticalModule in place of the Startech FMC.  

 

These are the parts I used:

 

SFP:  https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0747WZ8LZ/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

Fiber: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0099S4WYE/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

FMC:  https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B011KH1O1U/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&th=1

 

Note:  I believe Emile might have actually recommended the "chassis mount" FMC variant that follows.  This wasn't immediately available at Amazon so I chose the "no chassis" variant.  I'm not sure how much this matters.  https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00FWJMTXU/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

Hat tip to @zettelsm for taking the lead on this.  

 

I replaced my Gtek FMC with an optical module  and there was a notable increase of SQ. 
Cheers Jorge

[soares]

Currently using:

 

Jensen VRD- iFF > Router (HDPLEX) > Pink Faun isolator > Ethernet copper > Zen MKIII > Ethernet  copper > Optical module (LPS 1.2) > fiber > Etherregen (Sbooster + ultra) > Ethernet copper >  Ultrarendu (Sbooster) > USB > Isoregen (LPS 1.2) > USB > (OPPO 205 modded).