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The EtherREGEN thread for various cable and power experiences and experiments

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Hi Folks:

 

Now that EtherREGEN is shipping and so many people are excitingly posting their unique experiences with it, the Listening Impressions thread is starting to wander with discussions of cables, power supplies, combinations with various other networking equipment, etc.

 

Some people suggested that a new topic be started, so this is it.  I will move some posts over here now, and I may go back through the other thread and move a few more that are far off that basic topic of Listening reports.

 

By the way, please remember that there is another thread called EtherREGEN: Installation, Usage, Difficulty, Questions . That is a more "official" thread that we monitor carefully to assist people.

 

The one you are reading now can be far more anything-goes free-form.  Play nice and you can discuss all the tweaks and bizarro stuff here. :D 

Have fun!

--Alex C.

 

P.S. I had @The Computer Audiophile try to make this the first post of this thread, but #2 is as far up as he was able to make it go.

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15 minutes ago, gstew said:

 

That was how I felt for the first 3 or so days. BUT last night I put in my target power setup for the ER... 2 LPS-1.2's set to 12V with each feeding 1/2 of an MPAudio.com dual-section 3||LT3045 regulator board with both halves set to 10V (using .1% resistors to keep them REALLY closely mattched) with the outputs tied together to parallel the LPS-1.2 outputs. This is a setup I have used with much success to power sources such as RPi's, Allo's USBBridge SIgnature, and my SDTrans384 SD Card Player. Compared to a good 2A-3A linear supply 1 LPS-1.2 seemed to have lessened dynamics although it clearly had quieter backgrounds and more clarity. Paralleling 2 this way brought the dynamics into parity with the AC-connected supply with no negative impacts.

 

Greg in Mississippi

 

can you describe the MPAudio dc-dc kit (models, additional mods, etc) in more detail please? 

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6 minutes ago, cat6man said:

 

can you describe the MPAudio dc-dc kit (models, additional mods, etc) in more detail please? 

 

@cat6man, first, my apology... it is mpaudio.net. I have edited my post above.

 

Back when he started he sold un-populated boards on DIYAudio. I bought several of these. 

 

The ones on his website today that are closest to what I built are his MD-HPULN PS. The boards I used are an earlier version of this. I modify them by not populating the rectifier diodes as I feed it DC. You could also use his DC-input-only SD-HPULN.

 

As I populated them myself, my builds are a bit different than stock. The LT3045 regulators and associated chip caps and resistors are nearly identical to his products. Instead of a pot on each side to set the voltage out, I use an SMD 33K resistor (that gives 9.85V... 33.4K will get you closer to my 10V target) that I solder across the input/output through-holes where the pot would go. I use electrolytic caps that I've had good results with in other builds, United ChemiCon KYB series. AND I directly solder some high-current connectors onto the board at the input and output sides. 

 

If you went for an SD-HPULN from him or an MD-HPULN setup for DC input, replaced the pots with 33K or 33.4K precision resistors (leaded resistors would work as well and be easier to use... also ask, he may be able to do this if you are not comfortable with soldering), paralleled the outputs, and fed each input with an LPS-1.2 set to 12V, your results would be very similar to mine.

 

Greg in Mississippi


Everything Matters!

2 systems... Well-Tempered Refs->ET-2.5->DIY or Lounge LCR MkII phono stages

Standalone digital Sony HAP Z1-ES or SDTrans384/Soekris DAM DAC

Networked digital Zotac PI320-W2 LMS Server -> EtherRegen -> USBBridge Sig -> Katana / Ian GB / Soerkis / Buffalo-IIIPro DACs

Passive S&B TX102 TVC or ladder attenuators -> BHK-250 -> Eminent Tech LFT-VIII / IV / VI

ALL gear modified / DIY'd; cables MIT;  all supplies DIY’d or LPS-1.2s; Audio gear on DIY AC filters + PS Aud P15s; misc gear on separate AC w/filters

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I’m thinking really hard about the Musec Ref 10 clock and look forward to hearing from anyone with one connected to the ER. 


- Mark

 

Synology DS916+ > SoTM dCBL-CAT7 > Netgear switch > SoTM dCBL-CAT7 > dCS Vivaldi Upsampler (Nordost Valhalla 2 power cord) > Nordost Valhalla 2 Dual 110 Ohm AES/EBU > dCS Vivaldi DAC (David Elrod Statement Gold power cord) > Nordost Valhalla 2 xlr > Absolare Passion preamp (Nordost Valhalla 2 power cord) > Nordost Valhalla 2 xlr > VTL MB-450 III (Shunyata King Cobra CX power cords) > Nordost Valhalla 2 speaker > Kaiser Kaewero Classic /JL Audio F110 (Wireworld Platinum power cord).

 

Power Conditioning: Entreq Olympus Tellus grounding (AC, preamp and dac) / Shunyata Hydra Triton + Typhoon (Shunyata Anaconda ZiTron umbilical/Shunyata King Cobra CX power cord) > Furutec GTX D-Rhodium AC outlet.

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10 hours ago, MarkS said:

I’m thinking really hard about the Musec Ref 10 clock and look forward to hearing from anyone with one connected to the ER. 

Just a 2c fwiw

It's poss that the ER raises brightness depending on which cable or whether optic follows it.

Also ...

I found WC from my Dangerous Convert-2 instead of RedNet D16 AES internal (i.e. better clock) had similar effect even if prat, space and thud improved. So I turned it off.

Better clocking after the ER may brighten in unwanted ways.

Offsets may re-balance but you have to ask what's going on with the ER.

The ER is a strange animal but, tweaked, my system is more listenable than ever.

 


System: here

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15 hours ago, MarkS said:

I’m thinking really hard about the Musec Ref 10 clock and look forward to hearing from anyone with one connected to the ER. 

I have a "second batch" pre-order with AudioStore in the UK.  If all goes to plan I should receive it just before the "festive holidays", when I should have the time to try it with / without the Mutec REF10.  To be honest, I seriously doubt that adding the REF10 to the EtherRegen will offer much (if anything) over the "standalone" EtherRegen.  That said, I already have the REF10, I have some suitable clock cables spare, so why not give it a go!


Windows 10 PC, Roon, HQPlayer, SOtM sMS-200Ultra, tX-USBultra, Paul Hynes SR4 (x2), Mutec REF10, Mutec MC3+USB, Devialet 1000Pro, KEF Blade.  Plus Pro-Ject Signature 12 TT for playing my 'legacy' vinyl collection.

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Are there better optical cages and optical interconnects than those sent with the Optical Module (OM)? 

 

I've taken the cage and wires from my OM and put them into the ER.

 

The interconnects are way too long and messy at the length they are sent. Will shorter or shorter/better help?

 

Thank you


Main: sonicTransporter I5>ultraRendu/ghent/UltraCap 1.2> WireWorld Platinum>Wyred4Sound 2 DSD> Atma-sphere MP-1 3.1> Atma-sphere MA-1 3.1> Maggie 1.7, Quad (sub),Speaker cable: Zero Autoformers, Interconnects , Analysis Plus Silver Oval-In, Nordost Heimdall, Power Cables: Synergistic./Shunyata>Chang Litespeed 

HT:Dish>OPPO>Marantz>Hegel> 3-Maggies/2-Quads>REL Gibraltar>Custom Wire loom>APS>Samsung Plasma 55"

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6 minutes ago, thotdoc said:

Are there better optical cages and optical interconnects than those sent with the Optical Module (OM)? 

 

I've taken the cage and wires from my OM and put them into the ER.

 

The interconnects are way too long and messy at the length they are sent. Will shorter or shorter/better help?

 

Thank you

 

if you're talking about the lengths of the optical cables, then length shouldn't matter.  you can get a shorter one or just loop it around in a circle and tie off.  just don't crush the optical cable.


source:  intel nuc8i5 (roon rock) > intel nuc7i5 (ws2019, ao, roon bridge) > schiit yggdrasil (gen 5, analog 2)
headphone rig:  bryston bha-1 > senn hd600
two-channel rig:  luminous audio axiom ii xlr walker mod > parasound a21 > monitor audio gx100

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1 hour ago, thotdoc said:

Are there better optical cages and optical interconnects than those sent with the Optical Module (OM)? 

 

I've taken the cage and wires from my OM and put them into the ER.

 

The interconnects are way too long and messy at the length they are sent. Will shorter or shorter/better help?

 

Thank you

 

There is whole thread on all things optical at:

 

 

I use these Finisar SFP's. Reportedly, Finisar makes SFP's for lots of the other suppliers like Intel and Cisco. Generally, ebay is a good source for buying SFP's.

 

As for cables, they are cheap compared to Ethernet cables. I get mine from Fibertronics. Fiber


Eric


Ubuntu Studio Linux box (i7-9700, 8 cores, 16GB RAM, Roon, HQP) > fiber optic > MikroTik CRS305-1G-4S+ > fiber optic > opticalRendu (HQP NAA) > Holo Cyan (DSD version) > Goldpoint passive preamp > Nord One UP NC500MB mono blocks > Klipsch La Scala

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Emile has tested a bunch of different transceivers with his Taiko Extreme server and reported that he liked the StarTech SFP1000zxst transceivers the most. They are expensive at around $90 a piece, but every now and then they pop up new on eBay for $15-$20 if you are patient. I bought two of them cheap but have not tried them. They work with single mode fiber, so make sure you have compatible cable if you decide to try them.

However, the weird thing is that they are extended range transceiver designed for 80 km distance. Connecting them with a much shorter fiber cable (a few meters rather than 80 km) would have some consequences. For example, the transmit light would be very strong, and it could potentially burn the receiving transceiver module. A workaround to this would be to use light attenuators, but as far as I know Emile, and a few of his customers, don't do that and don't have any issues.

I have access to many different transceivers, including Cisco, Arista, and some third party ones but no desire or time to perform a transceiver shootout. If anyone is really interested and committed to do such thing I might be able to help with some test samples.

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52 minutes ago, Nenon said:

Emile has tested a bunch of different transceivers with his Taiko Extreme server and reported that he liked the StarTech SFP1000zxst transceivers the most. They are expensive at around $90 a piece, but every now and then they pop up new on eBay for $15-$20 if you are patient. I bought two of them cheap but have not tried them. They work with single mode fiber, so make sure you have compatible cable if you decide to try them.

However, the weird thing is that they are extended range transceiver designed for 80 km distance. Connecting them with a much shorter fiber cable (a few meters rather than 80 km) would have some consequences. For example, the transmit light would be very strong, and it could potentially burn the receiving transceiver module. A workaround to this would be to use light attenuators, but as far as I know Emile, and a few of his customers, don't do that and don't have any issues.

I have access to many different transceivers, including Cisco, Arista, and some third party ones but no desire or time to perform a transceiver shootout. If anyone is really interested and committed to do such thing I might be able to help with some test samples.

 

So maybe industrial transceivers have similar benefits to industrial RAM???


 

 

 

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On 11/18/2019 at 1:29 PM, gstew said:

 

@cat6man, first, my apology... it is mpaudio.net. I have edited my post above.

 

Back when he started he sold un-populated boards on DIYAudio. I bought several of these. 

 

The ones on his website today that are closest to what I built are his MD-HPULN PS. The boards I used are an earlier version of this. I modify them by not populating the rectifier diodes as I feed it DC. You could also use his DC-input-only SD-HPULN.

 

As I populated them myself, my builds are a bit different than stock. The LT3045 regulators and associated chip caps and resistors are nearly identical to his products. Instead of a pot on each side to set the voltage out, I use an SMD 33K resistor (that gives 9.85V... 33.4K will get you closer to my 10V target) that I solder across the input/output through-holes where the pot would go. I use electrolytic caps that I've had good results with in other builds, United ChemiCon KYB series. AND I directly solder some high-current connectors onto the board at the input and output sides. 

 

If you went for an SD-HPULN from him or an MD-HPULN setup for DC input, replaced the pots with 33K or 33.4K precision resistors (leaded resistors would work as well and be easier to use... also ask, he may be able to do this if you are not comfortable with soldering), paralleled the outputs, and fed each input with an LPS-1.2 set to 12V, your results would be very similar to mine.

 

Greg in Mississippi

 

Greg,

 

Thanks for kicking this off.  In my mind, I correlated your results with something I'd read before where a double regulated rail of Paul Hynes SR7 was reported to be dramatically better than a (still not shabby!) regular rail of a SR7.

 

https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/30376-a-novel-way-to-massively-improve-the-sq-of-computer-audio-streaming/?do=findComment&comment=998903

 

This got me wondering if the MPAudio stuff could be considered a viable way of getting double regulation and the (hopefully) concomitant SQ improvement.

 

As for soldering, I'm fine with that as long as it doesn't involve surface mount.  I unsoldered a surface mount resistor once in the lab under a magnifying light but have no desire to do that again, mechanical klutz that I am.

 

So I'm thinking of a couple of possible methods.

1.  your method with 2 lps-1.2 driving a dual rail MD-HPULN and putting in 2 fixed resistors as you suggested, tying the outputs in parallel to get more current capability

2.  using a single rail MS-HPULN driven by a HD-PLEX200 power supply rail and using the potentiometer to set the voltage

 

option 2 would let me power the etherRegen and, by changing the input to 19V and output voltage to 15V, power my NUC server running audiolinux/hqplayer.........either option 1 or 2 would be good for powering my opticalRendu, so I really have 3 audio devices where i'm investigating upgrades to the power and this dual regulation method appears potentially beneficial.

 

a few questions:

1.  what did you use for output connectors and output cables?

2.  any recommendations on enclosures?

3.  have you considered the M vs. L series from MPAudio?  The L series has yet even lower noise due to paralleling more LT3045s.  Costs about 1/3 more but a bargain if it further improves SQ.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Nenon said:

However, the weird thing is that they are extended range transceiver designed for 80 km distance.

 

Well come on, just order an 80km spool of single-mode fiber off Amazon. x-D  Can such a thing even exist?  That's 262,000 feet of cable. Guess you dedicate your garage to housing it! :P

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34 minutes ago, Superdad said:

 

Well come on, just order an 80km spool of single-mode fiber off Amazon. x-D  Can such a thing even exist?  That's 262,000 feet of cable. Guess you dedicate your garage to housing it! :P

Here is a cool thing you can do with all that fiber.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flash_Boys


nuckleheadaudio.com

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35 minutes ago, Superdad said:

 

Well come on, just order an 80km spool of single-mode fiber off Amazon. x-D  Can such a thing even exist?  That's 262,000 feet of cable. Guess you dedicate your garage to housing it! :P

 

You can actually buy one, but not on Amazon. It would be $30K+ (but what's that in hifi) and would be the size of big speakers (so you can still park your car in the garage). Exchanges in the financial sector do all kinds of crazy things to decrease/increase/control latency. Here is one example - https://youtu.be/d8BcCLLX4N4?t=158.

Sorry for the off topic message.

 

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3 minutes ago, Nenon said:

 

You can actually buy one, but not on Amazon. It would be $30K+ (but what's that in hifi) and would be the size of big speakers (so you can still park your car in the garage). Exchanges in the financial sector do all kinds of crazy things to decrease/increase/control latency. Here is one example - https://youtu.be/d8BcCLLX4N4?t=158.

Sorry for the off topic message.

 

 

no no no no no...........you've got it all wrong.

 

the financial industry pays mightily to reduce latency but to do that they get rid of the fiber!

there are digital microwave links to connect the markets from chicago to NY built solely to eliminate the wasteful latency of fiber links.

propagation time through the air is much less than the propagation time through fiber!!!!!!!!

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5 minutes ago, cat6man said:

 

no no no no no...........you've got it all wrong.

 

the financial industry pays mightily to reduce latency but to do that they get rid of the fiber!

there are digital microwave links to connect the markets from chicago to NY built solely to eliminate the wasteful latency of fiber links.

propagation time through the air is much less than the propagation time through fiber!!!!!!!!


I know!!
But did you watch the video from my post? It shows how one of the exchanges put a 38 mile coil of wire to introduce 350 microseconds of latency.

I’ve also seen places where they measure the longest wire and make every wire that length (again by coiling wire), so no one has latency advantage.

However, as you said, most companies do all kinds of crazy things to decrease latency and squeeze a nanosecond or two.

@Superdad would have to do some cleanup again it seems :). Sorry, but he started it. 

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3 minutes ago, Nenon said:


@Superdad would have to do some cleanup again it seems :). Sorry, but he started it. 

 

No, this is THE free-for-all thread. I will never "clean-up" anything here no matter how wacky! x-D

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25 minutes ago, Superdad said:

 

No, this is THE free-for-all thread. I will never "clean-up" anything here no matter how wacky! x-D

 

Excellent! Let's start with four questions I have on my mind, then. 

1. Do cables make a difference?

2. Is vinyl better than digital?

3. Bits are bits, right?

4. And... what did you guys say about measurements and blind tests? I can never remember how those go...

 

Haha, just kidding. I am off this thread now. Just until I come back from Garrett's, though.

 

 

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8 hours ago, ericuco said:

 

There is whole thread on all things optical at:

ber

Thank you and thanks to JCN3 also


Main: sonicTransporter I5>ultraRendu/ghent/UltraCap 1.2> WireWorld Platinum>Wyred4Sound 2 DSD> Atma-sphere MP-1 3.1> Atma-sphere MA-1 3.1> Maggie 1.7, Quad (sub),Speaker cable: Zero Autoformers, Interconnects , Analysis Plus Silver Oval-In, Nordost Heimdall, Power Cables: Synergistic./Shunyata>Chang Litespeed 

HT:Dish>OPPO>Marantz>Hegel> 3-Maggies/2-Quads>REL Gibraltar>Custom Wire loom>APS>Samsung Plasma 55"

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On 11/18/2019 at 12:51 PM, gstew said:

 

That was how I felt for the first 3 or so days. BUT last night I put in my target power setup for the ER... 2 LPS-1.2's set to 12V with each feeding 1/2 of an MPAudio.net dual-section 3||LT3045 regulator board with both halves set to 10V (using .1% resistors to keep them REALLY closely mattched) with the outputs tied together to parallel the LPS-1.2 outputs. This is a setup I have used with much success to power sources such as RPi's, Allo's USBBridge SIgnature, and my SDTrans384 SD Card Player. Compared to a good 2A-3A linear supply 1 LPS-1.2 seemed to have lessened dynamics although it clearly had quieter backgrounds and more clarity. Paralleling 2 this way brought the dynamics into parity with the AC-connected supply with no negative impacts.

 

Using this setup replacing either the stock SMPS OR a good (but not great) linear supply turned my ER into a dynamics and emotive expression MONSTER!!!!

 

AND kept all the subtleties and increased bass definition and separation between instruments / voices and greater harmonic density and etc etc etc... BUT turned them all up to 20!

 

Longer report in the next few days. 

 

I didn't think I could be this happy with a single upgrade!

 

 

 

Edit... and as Dutch said below, the DC-DC converter John/Alex uses does not behave the same as a linear regulator. It will run about the same temp or even lower with a higher voltage input. AND the voltage to the downstream linear regulators will always be the same

 

As far as the sonics with a different supply, see above!

 

Greg in Mississippi

 

I am sorry for being thick, but I do not understand this setup.  Can you please explain?  How can you have 2 LPS-1.2's powering the ER?  The ER can only accept one power input cable.  Really sorry I am not following this, but I am very interested.


- Mark

 

Synology DS916+ > SoTM dCBL-CAT7 > Netgear switch > SoTM dCBL-CAT7 > dCS Vivaldi Upsampler (Nordost Valhalla 2 power cord) > Nordost Valhalla 2 Dual 110 Ohm AES/EBU > dCS Vivaldi DAC (David Elrod Statement Gold power cord) > Nordost Valhalla 2 xlr > Absolare Passion preamp (Nordost Valhalla 2 power cord) > Nordost Valhalla 2 xlr > VTL MB-450 III (Shunyata King Cobra CX power cords) > Nordost Valhalla 2 speaker > Kaiser Kaewero Classic /JL Audio F110 (Wireworld Platinum power cord).

 

Power Conditioning: Entreq Olympus Tellus grounding (AC, preamp and dac) / Shunyata Hydra Triton + Typhoon (Shunyata Anaconda ZiTron umbilical/Shunyata King Cobra CX power cord) > Furutec GTX D-Rhodium AC outlet.

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I realize the Alex says a linear power supply shouldn't make a big difference but then how could I qualify as a card-carrying audiophile if I didn't try?

 

Is an Sbooster lps a safe option to try with the ER?

 

Sorry if something similar has already been asked but my searches didn't turn up anything.

 

Joel

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