The EtherREGEN thread for various network, cable, power experiences and experiments

[sahmen]

5 hours ago, One and a half said:

Here's a great thread on the Topaz type transformers and their applications. Many questions are answered, may take a while to sift through.

 

Thanks, I've moved the question to that topaz thread.

[sahmen]

Is there an option to try the optical connection without needing to bother with any attenuators? I currently have the ER deployed between an Asus Router and a Metrum Acoustics Ambre, and the system sounds pretty good, i.e much more resolving than it was before the ER, among other things...  I currently have it connected on both sides with Cable Matters Cat8 RJ45 cables, and wouldn't normally bother with the optical connectivity options, if I did not have an optical module (with Power supply) idling around unused.

 

In spite of my satisfaction with the sound as is, I am of course curious as to whether adding the Opticql module to the chain might bring even more enhancements, as some users seem to have claimed already.-If I am to bother experimenting with the Optical module, though, I would like to get all the connections correct (including the appropriate optical cable length, but hopefully, no attenuators if I can avoid that).

 

One more thing I have idling about is an unused  LPS 1.2. I have read a lot about the effects of a Farad LPS, but not enough about the LPS 1.2 on the ER.  So far, the stock SMPS is all I have used with the ER, and it seems to be doing fine.  If the LPS 1.2 can bring some added improvement, then I wouldn't mind trying it.

 

Any helpful hints or pointers would be welcome.

[sahmen]

A few questions for anyone who can offer reliable help:

 

About Shielding :

 

1. So what kind of shielding or no shielding format is appropriate for the ER? So far I have used the Cable Matters Cat8, and a Monoprice generic ethernet cable whose specs I do not remember, and they have both worked fine. I may soon try DIY Supra Cat8 cables too with stock Supra Cat8 connectors, but I do not know anything about the shielding part and how it is to be configured, which is why i am asking. Do the Supra Cat8's come with the correct shielding configuration for the ER?

 

Optical modul + ER

 

2.  I am thinking of adding an optical module to the ER chain, to be set up as follows :

Asus Router==>> (copper ethernet)==>>Optical module==>>(optical ethernet)==>>(A side)Etherregen(B-Side)==>>(Copper ethernet) ==>> Metrum Ambre.

 

Would that work? 

 

Power supplies:

I shall be using the SGC 5v LPS with the Optical Module.  However, I also have the Uptone LPS 1.2 with which I can replace the Etherregen's SMPS or the OM's SGC LPS.  I am assuming the better approach would be to try the LPS 1.2 with the Etherregen. Good?

 

Power Supplies and possible noise leakage issues

I am hoping the use of these other LPS units would not reintroduce unwanted noise issues, anywhere in the chain. Sometimes, I use a Teradak LPS from china to energize the Uptone LPS 1.2.  I thought doing that improves the SQ of my ultrarendu, when it is being powered by the LPS 1.2. Now if I should energize the LPS 1.2 powering the ER with a similar Teradak LPS from China, would there be any noise leakage issues to be wary of?

 

Because I am no expert in all these DIY tweaks, I am trying to stay on the safer side by asking before attempting anything. I hope members would bear with me on this.

 

 

[sahmen]

6 hours ago, kennyb123 said:

I was able to hear the SOtM Ethernet cable compared to my Cable Matters CAT8 in my system this morning.  While the CM cable is a screaming deal, it was no match for the SOtM - and this was almost immediately apparent.  We listened to “Speak No Evil” from Wayne Shorter’s album of the same name.  Timbre was more dead on with the qualities one hears from a saxophone and trumpet passed along more faithfully.  Micro-dynamics was one of those qualities that was just more convincing with the SOtM.  I was surprised to even hear a more apparent sense of Shorter moving closer and then away from the microphone as he played.

 

A Shunyata Sigma demo cable should be on its way sometime soon.  At almost twice the price of the SOtM it better be a lot better.  If the additional cost isn’t justified I will pull the trigger on the SOtM and call it a day.  The improvements I heard were worth the additional cost over the CM cable - though I would certainly understand if others didn’t feel the same.  

Was this the SOtM Cat6 or Cat7 cable, if I may ask? Actually, I meant to ask "dCBL-CAT6" or "IdCBL-CAT7"?  

And I am assuming it only needs to be used between the B-side of the ER and the streamer, is that accurate?

[sahmen]

27 minutes ago, kennyb123 said:

 

Yes it was the dCBL-CAT7 cable used between B-side and my Innuos Zenith streamer.  It's a heavy and inflexible cable, but it sounded great.

 

I replaced the  RJ45 cable in my Metrum Ambre with the SOtM dCBL Cat6 cable, and it opened up the sound signature quite significantly, improving it on several levels. Now with the Etherregen connected directly to the Ambre from the B-side, it seems to me that the Cable Matter Cat8 connecting the ER to the Ambre represents a kind of bottleneck, and that as good as the Ambre currently sounds, it is going to sound even better if the ethernet cable connecting it to the ER is another dCBL Cat8 table.

 

In the photos below, the one on the left shows the stock  RJ45 cable with which the Ambre original came. The photo on the right shows the SOTM dCBL Cat6, which sounds much better than the stock.

 

Your mention of the SOtM cat7 brought this question to mind again.

 

 

 

 

[sahmen]

32 minutes ago, lmitche said:

Hi all,

 

I've read the last month of postings here and can't seem to find a consensus on SFPs and Fiber combinations. Between tplink startech, cisco, 850nm 1350nm, 1550nm with attentuators or not, om4 or om5 fiber, I am lost.

 

Am I missing something, or is there no best practice yet? How should one proceed?

 

Larry

 

Lol : You're certainly not alone, if that is any consolation... My needs are many, but now, I am limiting them to one, for the meantime : a simple 1 meter ethernet cable to connect the B-side of my ER to my Metrum Acoustics Ambre streamer. Reading this forum and others, I have learnt about the relative benefits of the following options, but there is sadly no consensus, and I get the feeling there isn't going to be one, any time soon :

 

1. Audioquest vodka (and maybe diamond?)

2. Wireworld Starlight 8

3. Supra Cat8

4. Shunyata Sigma (or  Alpha)

5. Nordost Hemdall (or Blue Heaven)

6. SOtM dCBL Cat7 (and Cat6)...etc etc

 

I am sure there are others that I am leaving out, but the list at least provides some indication as what I am faced with, at the moment.  In an ideal world, i'd simply get all of them and try them one by one, in order to ferret out and keep the one which sounds best with the ER and my other gear, and return all the rest, but it doesn't look like there is some way to try out all these expensive cables without breaking the bank (Will the cable company have all of them for rent, for example?).

 

On the other hand, I have already replaced the generic cheapo RJ45 cable inside my Metrum Ambre Roon bridge with a 20cm length SOtM dCBL Cat6 cable, and that replacement made a very good, and exciting impact on the sound, so something tells me that I should simply get a 1m version of the same cable to connect the ambre with the B-side of the ER and be done with all my present torment of second guessing cables.  Except that this last thought itself leads to another set of questions : What if one of the other cables on the list would sound better? Is it ever a good idea to mix brands of cables on the B-side of the ER (i.e. whatever cable I choose is going to have to interact directly with the SOtM dCBL Cat6 inside the Ambre, so if mixing cables on the b-side is.not a good idea, then the best approach would either to use another dCBL Cat6 cable to complement the one already inside the Ambre, or to use another brand of cable for the two purposes : connecting the Ambre with the ER, and replacing the RJ45 cable inside the Ambre)...

 

So far, I am inclined to settle for the 1m SOtM dCBL Cat6 cable not necessarily because I know it is the best option, but it seems to be the easiest, cheapest, and most pragmatic choice, however is pragmatism a good reason to choose a cable, given how expensive this one is going to be (i.e. $350)?... As you can see, I have learnt how to torture myself with such endless questions...

 

I thought having an audio enthusiast hobby was supposed to be fun all the way....😀

 

By the way speaking of pragmatism, I am already using a Cable Matters Cat8 cable between the ER and the Ambre, and although it sounds fine, and leaves nothing obvious to complain about, I have got all the forces of audio nervosa and confirmation bias in my body protesting against that choice, and trying to convince me that the Cable Matters Cat8 simply can't be the best I can do under the present circumstances... And what can a poor guy like me do to quiet down such mighty forces?...😘

 

Seriously though, I still want to make one choice among the above and be done with this phase of the quest.

[sahmen]

34 minutes ago, skatbelt said:

 

John Swenson's advice (and this is also my own experience) is to no not use a lan-isolator after te ER  / from the B-side. So this would eliminate the SOtM and Shunyata's from your list because these have build in isolators. I would add the Ghent CAT6A JSSG360 to your list. It is on mine.

 

Thanks for the information, but it is a bit confusing, since the SOtM cables come in two configurations: dCBL Cat6/Cat7 on the one hand and the ISO Cat6 and ISO Cat7 on the other.  The ones I am interested in are the dCBL Cat6 or Cat7 versions which do not tout any Isolation properties, although they are designed to suppress noise through the use of some filters, as I understand it.

 

At least from the viewpoint of my own understanding which might be admittedly limited, the work of Isolation is reserved for SOtM cables, such as the ISO-CAT6 or ISO-CAT7, which  I did not intend to buy in the first place: Of course, I would like to know if what @JohnSwenson also applies to the SOtM dCBL Cat6 and dCBL Cat7 which do not claim any isolating functionalities.

 

Here are the specs of the dCBL-Cat7

 

Specification
dCBL-CAT7
Electronic specification
Impedance : 100 Ohm (±15%)
Support 10/100/1000Base-T, 10GBase-T
Mechanical specification
Cable outer diameter : 10mm (±1mm)
Noise filter block dimension(mm) : 120 x 25 x 25 (±0.5mm)
Gold plated contacts
Nickel plated zinc diecast connector bod
Aluminum-lined plastic foil & copper braid shield
Optional specification
Lengths from 1.5M up to 20M
Operating environment
Operating & Storage temperature : 0 ~ +40℃

 

 

And here are those of the Iso-Cat6 Special Edition:

iSO-CAT6 Special Edition
Isolator specification
CAT6 support
Fully shielded modular jack
High quality isolation transformer
Isolation 1500Vrms, 0.5mA, 60sec
Supplied LAN cables
Black : High resolution and dynamic
Grey : Moderate
Dard Grey : Mild and comfortable
Others
High-end audio grade sound tuning
No need external power supply

 

The user manual for both units is here:

 

https://www.sotm-audio.com/files/Accessories/dCBL-CAT7/dCBL-CAT7_with_iSO-CAT6_SE_Operating_Instructions_Rev1.0_EN.pdf?beb669&beb669

[sahmen]

I could be mistaken (and correct me if I am wrong), but the JS-2 seems to be emerging as one of the best (if not the best) power supply units to pair with the Etherregen, and that is making me want to invest in a JS-2.  I do have an LPS 1.2, that I originally meant to use with my Iso-Regen, but I have not gone that route yet.  On the other hand, although I am liberty to use it with my ER, I have decided not to use the LPS 1.2 with it (the Etherregen), because the reports I am reading here seem to suggest that the difference it makes, as compared to either the JS-2 or the stock ER SMPS, seems to be marginal at best (again correct me if I am wrong), although it generates a lot heat with the ER,  and that is what has made the JS-2 option more attractive, and the LPS 1.2 seem less ideal in my eyes.

 

Now if I am to invest in a JS-2, I would like to use it to power the ER and my DAC (possibly the Metrum Acoustics Onyx), if the JS-2 can indeed power that DAC too.  I have read about the JS-2 powering a Mytek Brooklyn DAC, which is what is suggesting to me the idea of powering my Onyx DAC with it.  However, from looking at the photos, I sse that the Mytek Brooklyn seems to have a 12 volt DC jack on it, which seems to make it immediately receptive to a JS-2 :

 

 

Conversely, the Metrum Onyx DAC does not have any 12 volt DC jack, at least no DC Jack that I can see:

 

 

 

 

So my embarrassingly ignorant question is whether there is some kind of workaround that would enable me to use a JS-2 with  a Metrum Onyx, which has no DC jack? Is this a feasible idea at all, or is it best abandoned?

[sahmen]

On 3/15/2020 at 12:46 PM, PYP said:

Added an opticalModule about one week ago.   The path is now:  Copper ethernet > oM > fiber > eR > copper ethernet > DAC (Roon endpoint).  A JS-2 powers both the oM and eR (7v and 12v respectively).

 

As Rajiv mentioned in his excellent review of the eR, the oM adds density.  He heard a smaller soundstage, but I hear the opposite in mine.  The oM seems to get the last bit of all that is good about the eR.  Others had mentioned that the upstream still matters and that is verified in my system.  Unlike Rajiv's optimized system, the upstream in my system isn't:  ISP-provided modem/router/wifi > in-wall cat 5e > then to the setup shown above.  

 

@soares had mentioned that the oM increased SQ in his system.  Thanks, Jorge, for the recommendation.  You have spent my money well!   

 

Probably going to stop now (insert photo of wife's knowing look here), until UpTone sells a reasonably priced external clock in a JS-2 case so that I can have matching gear (I know, not going to happen).  

 

On 3/16/2020 at 8:12 PM, soares said:

Happy that you are experiencing the same results there! 😊

Cheers Jorge

 

So @PYP and @soares :  I just added the Optical module to my audio chain, locating it right before the Etherregen and connecting it to the A-side of the ER with an optical fibre cable, while the B side of the ER is connected to my Metrum Ambre Roon endpoint iwith the usual RJ45 copper cable. I seem to have noticed a certain difference in the sound with the introduction of the OM, perhaps taking the form of a little more clarity, depth of the sound field, and separation of instruments, but I do not want to rush too quickly into evaluations yet as I think it might be too premature,  

 

What I want to know is whether the OM too is subject to "burn-in" changes, when added to the chain in this way, and if so, what kind? Prior to adding it to this chain, the OM had seen very little action, maybe not even a full hour of play time, since it arrived,  because I originally intended to use it in another chain with either my old ultrarendu or a new opticalrendu,  But that that alternative plan has been temporarily placed on ice, because I have tended to listen to my Metrum Ambre chain more, especially, since I added the ER to it.  That is why the OM has seen very little action so far, prior to my adding it to the ER/metrum ambre chain today.  I am asking about "burn-in" because I wonder whether there might be some benefit to having some music play through the OM continuously for some days, as I did for the ER when it first arrived.

 

Your input would be welcome. Thanks, 

[sahmen]

15 hours ago, soares said:

I also felt some improvement from the burn-in process. But I must say that I felt immediately a jump on SQ, probably because of the level of my LPS’s. I used a LPS 1.2 with silver cables and a Sbooster with ultra. Sound is excellent with both! 
Cheers Jorge

 

Talking about power supplies, I am currently using the SGC 5v LPS with the OM, and it sounds okay to me, although I haven't tried anything else with it yet.  I have not really considered changing the power supply for the OM, because I have always assumed an LPS swap with the OM wouldn't make as much of a difference, as it could potentially make with, say, the Etherregen. Does this sound like an accurate assessment to you?   Would the OM sound significantly different and better if I were to replace the 5v SGC LPS with an Uptone lpS 1.2, for example?

[sahmen]

Dear All: In considering a possible alternative power supply unit for the Etherregen, I have read mostly about these four options :

 

1. Uptone Audio LPS 1.2

2. Uptone Audio JS-2

3. Paul Hyne SR4

4. Farad Super3

 

I am trying to find out which of the 4 might be best for my own purposes.  I do have the LPS 1.2, but it seems from the reading I have done on these boards that it is the least favorably rated out of the 4 for use with the ER, as compared to the stock SMPS.  If that impression is correct, then this assessment will mainly be about the relative performance caliber of the last 3 options on the list. The idea is to get some sense as to how each compares with the stock SMPS in performance with the ER,  All inputs are welcome, particularly those of members who have had the opportunity to compare more than one of the listed options with the stock SMPS.  If needed you can rate each one as follows depending on the  difference it makes:

 

1. Marginal or subtle, but negligible

2. Marginal and subtle but definitely worth it.

3. Noticeably better, and enthusiastically recommended

4. A revelation, and a must.

 

Thanks.

[sahmen]

I'd also like to know if I'll need to ground it (the ER)if I were to power it with a Paul Hynes SR4T LPS unit.

[sahmen]

2 minutes ago, octaviars said:

 

All Paul Hynes PSU are floating designs so if you want to ground the eR you need to do it via the groundscrew when powered with a floating PSU.

 

The grounding affects how the filtering between the A-side ports works.

 

This is from the manual.

 

Please keep in mind that all of the above regarding grounding concerns only the blocking of leakage from one RJ45 jack on the ‘A’ side to another RJ45 jack also on the 'A' side. Regardless of grounding, zero AC leakage from upstream Ethernet devices ever gets past the full active digital isolation and reclocking ADIM™—to the EtherREGEN’s 'B'-side port.

 

Thanks. So far I do not have any RJ45 cables connected to the A side.  I only have one fiber optic cable that connects the A-side to an optical module.  I, of course, have one RJ45 cable on the B-side connecting the ER to my Streamer.  Does this mean I can do without the grounding if I am powering the ER with the Paul Hynes SR4T in this configuration?  I do not, and will not, need to block any leakage from any RJ45 cable on the A side to another on the A side.

[sahmen]

3 minutes ago, octaviars said:

 

Yes, you dont have any leakage to block between A-ports as you only have fiberoptics on the A-side.

Cool, that helps a lot. Thanks.

[sahmen]

Okay, today I decided to power the ER with an LPS 1.2 which has been sitting idly by since I purchased it, and it seems to have kicked up the performance of the ER one noticeable notch.  Actually, I think the ER is really kicking extra butt now, particularly in the way bass has been enhanced, also in the little extra details I have been picking up from from tracks I already know well.  I am even tempted to say I am getting a "blacker background," but that is one determination I cannot make for certain, partly because the stock SMPS is already an excellent piece of kit, which does very well in all the areas I have mentioned, including of course ensuring the presence of that "black background." I think the stock SMPS (and maybe the optical module too) has taken me to a point "blacker than black" in the background is not as easy to discern as other aspects of the soundscape, unless I do several back and forth swapping of LPS's,  Even so, that extra enhanced bass and detail are noticeably present and more prominent, that is unmistakeable.

 

 

If the LPS 1.2 can be truly surpassed in this pairing with the ER as some have suggested, then I cannot wait to see what an even more capable LPS, such as the JS-2 or the Paul Hynes SR4T can do...

 

By the way, is the LPS 1.2 also subject to the "burn-in" rule? should I expect even more improvement in performance after I have put some hours or days on it (the LPS 1.2)?

 

One more thing :  It seems to me that both the ER and the LPS 1.2 are warmer to the touch than the ER alone was when powered with the stock SMPS, and I hope that is normal.  The LPS 1.2 is set on 12 volts, and the A side of the ER is fed by single mode fiber optic cable and connected to the Optical Module with PlanetTechnology single mode SFP transceivers that @kennyb123 recommended.  I am really the extra enhancements at the moment, but there are still more to come.

[sahmen]

sahmen's ER log.  Sunday morning. March 29th, 2020.

 

I've been listening to albums of Bobo Stenson, Tomasz Stanko, Nik Bartsch's Ronin, among others, and I am experiencing all over again, that wonderful feeling of "This is the bestest best I've ever heard them all sound, Ever, period!."  And I have heard them all a zillion times before, at different times when I thought my systems were sounding near optimal.. Amazing how wrong I was!

 

Asus Router => Optical module=>Etherregen (LPS 1.20=>Metrum Acoustics Amber=>Yggdrasil A2=Violectric V281=>Hifiman He1000SE

 

and everything I can think of sounds pitch perfect: Resolution, transparency, detail, imaging, soundstage (depth, width, height, holography, air, you name it), separation of instruments, tonality, musicality, fullness, bass, treble, balance, blackness of background, sub-zero  sense of fatigue... err, what else am I not thinking of?

 

In practice, I simply can't believe how this could get any better, yet I've been around long enough to know how naive that sounds, but, in the meantime, just let me enjoy this illusion of floating on ethereal clouds for a little while, thank you very much!

 

Oh yes: the one source of concern is how hot both the Etherregen and the LPS 1.2 feel to the touch now.  And yes, I am saying "hot" and not warm.  I can put my palm on each one of them for up to 10 secs before feeling I have to remove it and take a short break.  I do not necessarily think that any one of them is going catch fire or anything like that, but I think the ER was much less warm to the touch with the stock SMPS, and this is what is bothering me a little. I want the party to go on indefinitely, uninterrupted about any concerns about overheating, so Is there some practical way to reduce the heat on them just a little bit?  Any solution involving some strategically positioned heatsinks, for example? 

[sahmen]

There is something strikingly refreshing about this thread.  People can freely discuss at length experiences--such as hearing a difference between cables, ethernet cables, for that matter, and switches, for example--that in ofter forums, and even on other threads of this site, would have long attracted the usual crowd of vampiric objectivists and and wise-cracking skeptics, the kind, who are forever seeking to pour scorn on what they seem to consider to be signs of audiophile heresy...  So what is the "garlic" that is keeping such objectivists at arm's length from here?

 

Not that I am trying to stir up some kind of hornet's nest here...  I just have a question that I will not dare pose on certain other forums I know :  Are boutique ethernet cables subject to the rules of "break-in" or "burn-in"?  I ask because i am test-driving a new SOtM dCBL Cat7 cable on my Etherregen.  It is connecting the B-side of the ER with my Metrum Acoustics Ambre, which is itself connected to a Metrum Acoustics Onyx, and a Cavalli Audio Liquid Platinum.  The system already sounded very resolving to me before I introduced the dCBL Cat7.  The addition sounds good to me already... Nothing to complain about. I am just wondering whether I should let it run in for a few days or at least before  doing some critical listening,..

 

Any thoughts?

 

Also, I'm expecting my Paul Hynes SR4T to arrive tomorrow to power the ER.  I hoping to keep track of any improvements that the LPS too will bring, separate from the progress of the dCBL Cat7.

 

Oh, and I am keeping some garlic nearby as a warning to all vampiric objectivist naysayers... I only want constructive input, and no derailing of this thread, with snarky jokes and wisecracks 🙂

 

     

[sahmen]

BTW : I got this to dock both the ER and an LPS 1.2 sideways, and it seems to have the temperature of both units down some... It is actually a little surprising... so what gives?

 

 

 

 

I actually didn't believe this cooling hole gimmick could actually do any cooling.  However, since the temperatures of both units have become less hot, for some reason, I'm wondering whether the magic comes from the sideways positioning of the ER and LPS 1.2, or whether the "cooling hole" indeed has something to do with it. 

[sahmen]

On 7/8/2020 at 3:51 PM, Mike Rubin said:

Sahmen, where did you find this?  I come up short at the US Amazon site when I search for this pic using Google Images.

 

Here:

 

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B088T4HF82/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o05_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

For some reason, its availability is intermittent, and it is hard to reach with a search when it is unavailable, as it is now.  However, it does become available from time to time. In order to get my second one, for example,  I had to place a watch on it, and get notified once it became available again. I use it with both the Etherregen and the LPS 1.2 which is currently powering my Optical Module. 

 

I should mention however, that although it holds both the ER and LPS 1.2 securely enough to prevent them from falling off, or even fitting loosely, the slots do not open wide enough to allow them to be inserted as deeply as I would have ideally liked. However, since they insert far enough to prevent any looseness in the desired sideways/upright position that helps to keep both units a bit cooler than they normally are when standing on their own legs, I accept the result as a satisfactory job. 

[sahmen]

I am just about to upgrade both my cable modem and my router, respectively, to the   MOTOROLA MB8600 DOCSIS 3.1 and the ASUS RT-AX3000 Dual Band WiFi Router. Would there be any special advantage in linking the modem and the router with an Audiophile RJ45 noise reducing cable, even if I have both an Etherregen and an optical module also linked in the chain downstream and feeding my Metrum Ambre streamer (Roonbridge)?

 

I should add that the idea of connecting the modem to the router with a noise attenuating RJ45 cable is not only meant to have some impact on these exclusively audio SQ dedicated components (such as the ER and OM), I am also thinking it might have some positive effect on other AV components in my house in general, components that are  hooked up to the router, but not to the chain in which the Etherrtegen and the Optical Module are located.  These are typical AV components such as my Oppo 203 Blu ray player, or my LG Oled TV, as well as some AV streamers such as Apple TV 4k, that are connected with them.  In other words, will a noise-attenuating audiophile RJ45 cable (connecting a modem to a router) also have an enhancing effect on the picture quality of a TV, a streamer, or blu ray blu ray player that are hooked up to the router, assuming that all of these components are plugged into power conditioners?