EtherREGEN: Installation, Usage, Difficulty, Questions thread

[vortecjr]

8 hours ago, Bernstein said:

I want be crystal clear!
 

For me the discussion around the topic is interesting from a measurements point of view but imho started by @vortecjrHIGHLY colored with business / marketing interest in

mind. It doesn’t help or add something to the knowledge of the community, rather creating “loose” ends of understanding based on not proven facts and accusations. 
Knowing, that John Swenson is also working with Sonore, I only can summarize the discussion of @vortecjr as not knowing how to behave, communicate and act in public with respect of other people and especially  the people working with him. 

I have valid concerns and it doesn’t matter how many high fives you get. I think it’s disingenuous to promote a connection scheme which goes against the very premise of the device. I’m sorry that you don’t like the concern or the message behind it but that’s the reality of the situation.

[Superdad]

11 minutes ago, vortecjr said:

I have valid concerns and it doesn’t matter how many high fives you get. I think it’s disingenuous to promote a connection scheme which goes against the very premise of the device. I’m sorry that you don’t like the concern or the message behind it but that’s the reality of the situation.

 

Please stop.  I do not know what you mean by "a connection scheme which goes against the very premise of the device." EtherREGEN? opticalRendu? I don't really care and I think you are confusing people.

UpTone is not targeting Sonore customers. But some of the same people choose to purchase products from both brands. John wanted to include an optical SFP cage on the EtherREGEN and to make the unit symmetrical so that opticalRendu users could use it and benefit. Which a reasonable number have already reported they are. Seems simple enough to me. 

[vortecjr]

8 hours ago, Jud said:

I agree with @lmitche. @vortecjr, understood that @Superdad said something about use and placement of the EtherREGEN you disagree with. Think such disagreements and/or the parameters of fair comment would be better hashed out in PMs, not because I have a desire to curtail useful discussion, but because I'd like the discussion to remain useful rather than degenerate.

There is really nothing to hash out. I can’t help it if people want to instigate.

[vortecjr]

12 minutes ago, Superdad said:

 

Please stop.  I do not know what you mean by "a connection scheme which goes against the very premise of the device." EtherREGEN? opticalRendu? I don't really care and I think you are confusing people.

UpTone is not targeting Sonore customers. But some of the same people choose to purchase products from both brands. John wanted to include an optical SFP cage on the EtherREGEN and to make the unit symmetrical so that opticalRendu users could use it and benefit. Which a reasonable number have already reported they are. Seems simple enough to me. 

I'm sorry you are confused. I'm simply asking, because I'm curious. How does connecting a device with poor clocks and poor power regulation circuits to the output of an EtherREGEN preserve the significant reduction in phase-noise fingerprint? Put another way doesn't the dirty device inject its phase-noise fingerprint into the DAC anyway. When you say connecting anything to the output of the EtherREGEN is always desirable you are confusing me.     

[dminches]

9 minutes ago, vortecjr said:

I'm sorry you are confused. I'm simply asking, because I'm curious. How does connecting a device with poor clocks and poor power regulation circuits to the output of an EtherREGEN preserve the significant reduction in phase-noise fingerprint? Put another way doesn't the dirty device inject its phase-noise fingerprint into the DAC anyway. When you say connecting anything to the output of the EtherREGEN is always desirable you are confusing me.     

 

I really can't believe you think it is appropriate for you to be carrying on in Alex's public folder.  This is why these sites have private messaging.

 

[Superdad]

23 minutes ago, vortecjr said:

I'm sorry you are confused. I'm simply asking, because I'm curious. How does connecting a device with poor clocks and poor power regulation circuits to the output of an EtherREGEN preserve the significant reduction in phase-noise fingerprint? Put another way doesn't the dirty device inject its phase-noise fingerprint into the DAC anyway. When you say connecting anything to the output of the EtherREGEN is always desirable you are confusing me.     

 

Oh, okay, now I understand what you are getting at. Namely you are questioning how computer/streamer/renderer/DAC endpoints--that might not themselves have the very best (or any) attention paid to clocks and power regulation--can benefit from the EtherREGEN.

Well there is a world of those devices out there, ranging from NUCs and Raspberry Pi, to Aurender, Lumin, Auralic, dCS (DACs and bridge), PS Audio, Ayre, etc.  As well of course as your fine micro/ultra/opticalRendus. And already hundreds of people are using EtherREGENs with all of those and liking what they hear.

Seems it might be time for me to send you one to check out first-hand. 

[vortecjr]

My guess is that they are experiencing the effect of galvanic isolation. I have been hearing about the benefits of optical isolation since the early days of the mR. Anyway, I’ll make sure Adrian and Barrows get to try it out as well. 

[cat6man]

36 minutes ago, vortecjr said:

My guess is that they are experiencing the effect of galvanic isolation. I have been hearing about the benefits of optical isolation since the early days of the mR. Anyway, I’ll make sure Adrian and Barrows get to try it out as well. 

 

well, i have multiple generations of products from both of you guys, so let me make one comment here.

 

when i replaced my ultraRendu with an opticalRendu and ran fiber from my netgear switch, i heard a small improvement in SQ.

when i replaced the SFP in the netgear with an opticalModule, the SQ improvement was large.............so, it is not just galvanic isolation even if we don't know exactly what it is.

 

heck, why does running audiolinux in ramroot sound better than running it on a usb stick?  why does the power supply at the NUC server make a difference with all the other stuff between the server and DAC?  we just don't know everything that needs to be measured, therefore not measuring a difference is well short of conclusive evidence that something cannot be working.

 

i'm REALLY looking forward to understanding the mechanisms involved here.  reducing known measurable noise sources is a good step in the right direction though.

 

also looking forward to eR in January batch

[thotdoc]

2 hours ago, Superdad said:

 

Oh, okay, now I understand what you are getting at. Namely you are questioning how computer/streamer/renderer/DAC endpoints--that might not themselves have the very best (or any) attention paid to clocks and power regulation--can benefit from the EtherREGEN.

Well there is a world of those devices out there, ranging from NUCs and Raspberry Pi, to Aurender, Lumin, Auralic, dCS (DACs and bridge), PS Audio, Ayre, etc.  As well of course as your fine micro/ultra/opticalRendus. And already hundreds of people are using EtherREGENs with all of those and liking what they hear.

Seems it might be time for me to send you one to check out first-hand. 

Superdad: You have the patience of Job...and a really long fuse. I admire your restraint. :-)

[Indydan]

Just to let people know, I have plugged an Apple TV 4K and a Mac Mini into the A ports. No problems whatsoever. 

[Jud]

4 hours ago, vortecjr said:

I'm sorry you are confused. I'm simply asking, because I'm curious. How does connecting a device with poor clocks and poor power regulation circuits to the output of an EtherREGEN preserve the significant reduction in phase-noise fingerprint? Put another way doesn't the dirty device inject its phase-noise fingerprint into the DAC anyway. When you say connecting anything to the output of the EtherREGEN is always desirable you are confusing me.     

In my case, since I have a microRendu (your very kind and generous gift), the ER, and a USB DAC, getting the ER as close as possible to the DAC means using it to feed the microRendu. I would imagine many people have similar setups.

 

That worked better for me than optical Ethernet through a Cisco into the ER, but the Cisco was powered by its internal SMPS. With an Optical Module and/or Optical Rendu and careful attention to power supplies, I imagine the story might be different.

[willyhot]

Excited to receive my ER yesterday and plugged to replace my "audiophile" switch as attached.  I am using power adapter comes with the ER.

 

1. I connected router>A, B>Aurender>mutec mc3>DAC; my Aurender conductor app cannot find my Aurender.

2. I connected both router and Aurender > A; my Aurender plays and SQ improves (music stores in the streamer HDD), but I found my NAS music no longer available.

3. I went to my PC and rebuilt the connection between Aurender and NAS music folder.  and at the same time,

4. Try unplug everything in the steamer loop and reconnect again as 1.  it works! and then plays for few songs: NAS music ok > Qobuz ok > NAS music ok > Tidal HiFi ......silent?? but the app showed it was playing without any sound, then I press "pause", the music pops up and then paused, then I press "previous" try to replay, it plays normally again, Tidal HiFi.

5. continue to 4, I tried to add more songs to the playlist while Aurender got disconnected suddenly,  I took a closer look to the Aurender front panel, it read "No IP" as shown in attached.

6. I switched Aurender off and on again, initially it still show no IP but finally got an IP address after 20 or 30 secs.  Then music play ok.

 

I am glad to hear that you are developing new firmware and hopefully it also could solve my issue described above too.

 

Thanks.

[octaviars]

Left my etherREGEN over night playing music to my Devialet Phantom (Qobuz) and it was still playing this morning. So I feel the Ubiquiti Router, FS SFP modules and etherREGEN are working well together in my second system. 

 

It was hot to the touch (using stock PSU) with a bare hand so I have borrowed a IR thermometer and will measure it later today to see what temperature it runs at.

 

Tonight I will swap out my Netgear switch and also place the etherREGEN on the wall so it gets better cooling and in my case the air from the fan cooling the cabinet will flow over it.

[_JL_]

I custom ordered heatsinks for the ER (and also Ultracap LPS). The key is to use a heat-transfer tape (blue one) to bond it to the case. The ER runs at ~46 degree w/o heatsink and the latter reduced the temp by ~3 degrees (measured at the case, not the heatsink). Works quite well.

[octaviars]

6 minutes ago, _JL_ said:

I custom ordered heatsinks for the ER (and also Ultracap LPS).

 

This is something I also have considered if it still runs hot when mounted on the wall.

 

Where did you buy the heatsink?

[_JL_]

42 minutes ago, octaviars said:

 

This is something I also have considered if it still runs hot when mounted on the wall.

 

Where did you buy the heatsink?

I got them from taobao. Need to custom order the heatsink in black. Here are the links:

 

Heatsink: https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a1z09.2.0.0.1ef32e8dXghdMX&id=44236230101&_u=kbqvibi0b3a

Tape: https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a1z09.2.0.0.1ef32e8dXghdMX&id=574145349272&_u=kbqvibi2d3c

[ronfint]

18 hours ago, Superdad said:

 

To any users who have experienced loss of connection:

 

We have fully figured out the issue and by the end of this week will be releasing a firmware update to eliminate the problem.

 

It is all an 'A'-side issue having to do with "Energy Efficient Ethernet" (EEE) and our main switch chip's poor support of such (discovered in an errata sheet for it released well after we had designed in the part). John thought he had already set the registers right in the firmware, but his deeper inspection last night revealed that his code was not setting the registers he thought it was. 

 

We certainly do not want anyone to become frustrated with use of their EtherREGEN, so if you are experiencing connectivity problems, please just set aside your EtherREGEN for a few days until we release the update.  

 

Of course we will explain everything and make the process simple.  The only tools required will be a Torx T10 screwdriver (or just bit tip) to remove one end panel of the case, and a standard USB 'A' to microUSB cable.  The actual process beyond that will be silly-simple.

 

The vast majority of EtherREGEN users are not experiencing any problems (their connected devices are not trying to use EEE), so those users will not need to update their firmware.

 

Thanks for your patience and understanding.

--Alex C.

Thanks very much for solving this issue. I was one of those with connection problems. I've now disabled EEE on my AudioLinux Roon server, and all connections appear to be robust.

[Superdad]

12 hours ago, thotdoc said:

Superdad: You have the patience of Job...and a really long fuse. I admire your restraint. 🙂

 

Well that patience just ran out. (And I have just now deleted a number of back-and-forth OT posts from this morning.)

 @vortecjr please take your arguments and speculations—about what is or is not with our product—elsewhere.

This support thread is primarily for EtherREGEN owners who have questions or difficulties with their installation.

[octaviars]

I have some measurments of how hot my etherRegen runs, between 47-48C and the cabinet is around 29C and stock PSU.

[BigAlMc]

22 minutes ago, ronfint said:

Thanks very much for solving this issue. I was one of those with connection problems. I've now disabled EEE on my AudioLinux Roon server, and all connections appear to be robust.

 

Hi @ronfint,

 

Would you mind sharing instructions for how to do this in Audiolinux?

 

Many thanks,

Alan

[BigAlMc]

3 minutes ago, BigAlMc said:

 

Hi @ronfint,

 

Would you mind sharing instructions for how to do this in Audiolinux?

 

Many thanks,

Alan

 

Don't worry. Just saw Larry's post on the AL thread.

[k-man]

A few of my posts got deleted, so I apologise for anything construed as stirring . I am sitting on the fence on purchasing an EtherRegen based on the decision to either go optical or not, and reading further related impressions or issues solved. 

[Jud]

That’s one thing that was somewhat mystifying to me. ER works fine with optical.

[Superdad]

1 hour ago, k-man said:

A few of my posts got deleted, so I apologise for anything construed as stirring . I am sitting on the fence on purchasing an EtherRegen based on the decision to either go optical or not, and reading further related impressions or issues solved. 

 

No worries at all. Please let us know if we can answer any questions about how an EtherREGEN might fit into your system.  And remember, our products are sold with a 30-day money-back guarantee--with no restock fee and no questions asked. So if it does not "WOW" you, simply return it. 

[JohnSwenson]

21 hours ago, dminches said:

Will turning EEE off on the computer feeding the EtherREGEN accomplish the same thing as your “fix.”

 

Yes, turning the EEE off on the device directly connected to the A side RJ45 is doing the same thing. Note that EEE only happens between PHYs connected by a cable. So a computer connected to the A port might have the issue, if there is a switch in between changing a setting on the computer would make no difference.

 

As I mentioned before, even if you connect a device that you know supports EEE, it may not have the problem. Some chips don't exhibit the problem and some do.

 

John S.