EtherREGEN: Installation, Usage, Difficulty, Questions thread

[richard_crl032]

On 12/19/2020 at 3:36 AM, JohnSwenson said:

Hi Richard,

the ER addresses two very different things that affect audio gear through a network connection. Leakage current and phase noise from clocks in network equipment.

 

Leakage current comes from power supplies attached to network equipment. There are two types of leakage current, one which occurs with all power supplies, and one which is just from SMPS. Traditional Ethernet connections blocks the first type but not the second. BUT most shielded cable (such as CAT7 and CAT8) don't block either and both types can go right through the connection. The EtherRegen blocks both types no matter what the cable type. The SMPS in most residential equipment use the cheapest supplies they can find, which have lots of leakage current.

 

The second is the phase noise from clocks in the network gear. The clocks in these devices are usually just barely good enough for the device to work. The ER prevents most of this clock noise from getting into your audio equipment.

 

Using a WiFi device obviously blocks leakage current from the rest of the network equipment, BUT the power supply feeding it will be generating its own leakage, but this can be quite a less than the contribution of leakage from upstream network equipment. The WiFi interface will also create its own phase noise, which frequently greater than what you would get out say from a simple switch.

 

The ER will deal with both the leakage current issues and clock phase noise issues of either configuration.

 

John S.

 

Hi John,

 

Read some of your other posts and realised your expertise.

 

In short, I placed an order for end Jan 2021 production of the uptone ER.

 

Thanks again for the advice and help !

 

Richard

[Superdad]

On 12/20/2020 at 12:39 PM, richard_crl032 said:

Hi John,

Read some of your other posts and realised your expertise.

In short, I placed an order for end Jan 2021 production of the uptone ER.

Thanks again for the advice and help !

Richard

 

Thank you for your order Richard. You are lucky to have gotten into to the January batch--as the very last available unit for that month!

 

Here is a quick status update for all (I'm supposed to be on vacation and unplugged until the 4th; good thing my wife does not read the forums or I would be in trouble ):

 

—All EtherREGENs promised for shipment by December 17th shipped off well ahead of schedule as is always my goal (on the 7th for domestic units, on the 11th for the internationals).

 

—We have zero units left on the shelf, but 250 circuit boards in production and due here about January 13th.  However, we have only about 80 aluminum cases in stock, with our 450 piece order for cases delayed for shipment from Japan around January 28th (hopefully sooner).

 

—Because of the above, you can see that for January we will be able to complete and ship only 80 units. And as of this afternoon those have all been pre-ordered by end-users (our dealers are getting shut out of January; guess I will deal with their unhappiness about this early in the month).

 

—Since we will have plenty of boards and time to program/test/affix heatsinks in advance of more aluminum cases arriving, I feel confident in quoting February 11th as the outside ship date for any new orders that people place now. And a reasonable chance such orders will ship a few days sooner than that.

 

Thank you all for your business and enthusiasm in 2020.  Looking forward not only to our pandemic-stricken world recovering next year, but also to releasing some of the very exciting (and still secret--so don't ask) new products we have been cooking up for a while. [Not Ethernet-related is all I will say. So keep buying EtherREGEN's--it will not change or be superseded in 2021.]

 

Wishing you good health and great music in 2021,

 

Alex Crespi

 

Please note that UpTone Audio’s offices will be closed from December 21st to January 4th. Packages will be received, but no outbound shipments will be made nor will e-mail be answered during this period. We thank you for understanding and wish you a healthy holiday and new year.

 

[PhilSLG]

Hi @Superdad

I purchased an etherREGEN from AfterDark last September (2020) and it has transformed my system, such that I consider it an essential component of my streaming. I have a decent set-up, centred on PS Audio (P20-Directstream DAC-BHK Pre-BHK300 monos, Amphion Krypton3 speakers, Roon Nuc+, Matrix Audio X-SPDIF 2, and multiple LPS's on key components -  Sbooster, Farad Super 3, etc..) The etherREGEN is kept on its side with a USB fan on it to keep cool (A tip from a PS Audio forum). It's powered by an LPS that is plugged into the PS Audio P20 (as with all my gear), so its power supply has been top-notch.  Even the router is on a large UPS. 

 

I did have an issue in October (one month after purchase) where the etherREGEN simply stopped working.  Lights on, but no communication.  I contacted AfterDark but before Adrian replied, I tried re-booting the Firmware as per the Uptone website (UpTone EtherREGEN Update.zip ), and that worked!  Happy again until now.  

 

Unfortunately, the etherREGEN decided to stop working again.  I have power cycled it multiple times, re-loaded the Firmware (everything went exactly as per last October - EREGENBOOT volume appeared on my iMac, and the process went as per the Uptone instructions on this), and I even tried having all ethernet cables on the A side as well.  Unfortunately, when I plug the router ethernet cable into the etherREGEN, that LAN disappears as does Roon.  When I plug the ethernet cable directly into my Roon Nuc+, the LAN reappears along with Roon.  

 

I emailed Adrian (AfterDark) 3 days ago, but have not yet heard back.  Hoping that you can give some advice on the next steps. I am really missing having the etherREGEN in my system.  

Kind regards, 

Phil

 

(Postscript:  Adrian has just contacted me and advised me to return the etherREGEN for repairs)

 

[R1200CL]

5 hours ago, PhilSLG said:

Unfortunately, the etherREGEN decided to stop working again.

Does it work or not without external clock ?

[PhilSLG]

Hi @R1200CL

I don't have an external clock, and the etherREGEN was set to internal.  In any case, AfterDark has asked me to return it to them, so it's already on its way to Hong Kong!

Cheers, 

Phil

[Superdad]

12 hours ago, PhilSLG said:

In any case, AfterDark has asked me to return it to them, so it's already on its way to Hong Kong!

Cheers, 

Phil

 

Hi Phil:

Sorry to hear you are having some trouble. Actual EtherREGEN failure is exceedingly rare, so it will be interesting to see what AfterDark reports once they receive your unit.

 

By the way, there is never a need to reload the original firmware file. The file on our web site is the same as has been loaded on every unit since December 1, 2019!

We have never seen corruption of that on an EtherREGEN.  So your earlier success after reloading the firmware must have been due to something else.  I state this because we really do not want a bunch of people trying to solve connectivity problems by opening and reloading firmware.  

 

You are welcome to write to us directly as well.  I will probably reply with a request for a diagram of your network.  It is well know that the Roon RAAT protocol--for all its ease of use with finding endpoints--is a bit fussy with some networks and endpoints. It is constantly polling the endpoint to confirm its presence, and a little extra latency, either by the endpoint or from hops through a couple of switches, can sometimes cause it to "let go" of the connection and report it being gone.

Not saying that is happening to you, but this is why when Roon is involved we like to look as a wider range of possibilities.

We certainly have a large number of DirectStream DS/Bridge II DAC owners enjoying the EtherREGEN, so we know there are no compatibility issues there.

 

Best wishes,

--Alex C.

[FrankMA]

7 minutes ago, Superdad said:

 It is well know that the Roon RAAT protocol--for all its ease of use with finding endpoints--is a bit fussy with some networks and endpoints. It is constantly polling the endpoint to confirm its presence, and a little extra latency, either by the endpoint or from hops through a couple of switches, can sometimes cause it to "let go" of the connection and report it being gone.

Not saying that is happening to you, but this is why when Roon is involved we like to look as a wider range of possibilities.

We certainly have a large number of DirectStream DS/Bridge II DAC owners enjoying the EtherREGEN, so we know there are no compatibility issues there.

 

Best wishes,

--Alex C.

Hi Alex,

I have been having constant dropouts in Roon since the summer.  I using an Ether Regen>Innuos MKII SE > Innuous Phoenix>Directstream DS.  PSA does not think it is their DAC (Roon concurs).  Roon says it may be fixed in next update but I don't get a good feeling about that. It is basically an unusable product at this point with the constant dropouts.

 

Could the ER have some role in this?

 

[Superdad]

18 minutes ago, FrankMA said:

I using an Ether Regen>Innuos MKII SE > Innuous Phoenix>Directstream DS.

 

Hi Frank:  

I am not clear about your chain.

What connections on 'A' and 'B' sides of EtherREGEN?

Where is your Roon Core Server?

Are you using one or both of the Innuos Zen MKII SE's Ethernet ports? If so, how?

[FrankMA]

14 minutes ago, Superdad said:

 

Hi Frank:  

I am not clear about your chain.

What connections on 'A' and 'B' sides of EtherREGEN?

Where is your Roon Core Server?

Are you using one or both of the Innuos Zen MKII SE's Ethernet ports? If so, how?

Hi Alex

I haven't updated recently but this is mostly accurate network path of my audio system:

 

 

 

Roon server on Innous

Netgear to ER A Side (nothing else)

B Side to Innuous

Only using LAN in to Innuous. USB out

 

Thank you

 

[Superdad]

32 minutes ago, FrankMA said:

Roon server on Innous

Netgear to ER A Side (nothing else)

B Side to Innuous

Only using LAN in to Innuous. USB out

 

Well with Roon Core on the Innous on the ''B' side of EtherREGEN, I don't see how the EtherREGEN can be responsible for the issue you are having.

 

By the way, what sort of cable (shown as Nordost Red Dawn) is it that you have running from your Oppo to your DirectSteam DAC?

And what is us with the light blue cable (Ethernet) running from your Netgear switch the DS DAC as well?

Am quite sure you are defeating the active differential isolation moat of the EtherREGEN with one or both of those cables...

[FrankMA]

2 minutes ago, Superdad said:

 

Well with Roon Core on the Innous on the ''B' side of EtherREGEN, I don't see how the EtherREGEN can be responsible for the issue you are having.

 

By the way, what sort of cable (shown as Nordost Red Dawn) is it that you have running from your Oppo to your DirectSteam DAC?

And what is us with the light blue cable (Ethernet) running from your Netgear switch the DS DAC as well?

Am quite sure you are defeating the active differential isolation moat of the EtherREGEN with one or both of those cables...

The Red Dawn shown on the Oppo is RCA to the preamp

 

The light blue is a LAN cable. I don't have that connected. I had gone back and forth between USB/LAN at some point.

 

So IF I need the Directstream connected to the network (since it is post moat), I should go from the a-side of the ER to the DS?

 

This sure seems like my issue based on your comments:

 

It is well know that the Roon RAAT protocol--for all its ease of use with finding endpoints--is a bit fussy with some networks and endpoints. It is constantly polling the endpoint to confirm its presence, and a little extra latency, either by the endpoint or from hops through a couple of switches, can sometimes cause it to "let go" of the connection and report it being gone

 

Thanks Alex

 

 

[Ponkbutler]

1 hour ago, FrankMA said:

Hi Alex,

I have been having constant dropouts in Roon since the summer.  I using an Ether Regen>Innuos MKII SE > Innuous Phoenix>Directstream DS.  PSA does not think it is their DAC (Roon concurs).  Roon says it may be fixed in next update but I don't get a good feeling about that. It is basically an unusable product at this point with the constant dropouts.

 

Could the ER have some role in this?

 

I'm not Alex (obviously!) but I doubt it. I listen to my Naim ND555 exclusively using Roon from a Roon Nucleus+ via not one but two EtherRegens without problem.

[FrankMA]

2 minutes ago, Ponkbutler said:

I'm not Alex (obviously!) but I doubt it. I listen to my Naim ND555 exclusively using Roon from a Roon Nucleus+ via not one but two EtherRegens without problem.

 

Hi @Ponkbutler

Most likely it is Roon (who are painfully slow to resolve problems). At their request I did test moving my Core back to a MAC and while it was more stable it still stopped overnight.  SO they don't think it is the core but more related to Roon and the DAC.

When it stops it does not respond to controls. Sometimes you will see the meters moving with no output. Sometimes Stop/Rew/Play get's it restarted. Other times not. Lately I have noticed at some point it seems to restart on it's own if I just don't touch the playback controls.  Painful 

[scolley]

1 hour ago, FrankMA said:

I have been having constant dropouts in Roon since the summer.  I using an Ether Regen>Innuos MKII SE > Innuous Phoenix>Directstream DS.  PSA does not think it is their DAC (Roon concurs).  Roon says it may be fixed in next update

@FrankMA - Sorry to butt in. This could be ER, but I'm guessing possibly not.

 

I had a PS Audio Directstream JR, which had the same network hardware/software that your Directstream DAC has now. And I traded it in because of the endless - if somewhat sporadic - connectivity problems. I've had multiple network endpoints for Roon over the years, and they've all been stable but that one. And if you swing over to Roon's forum, you'll see that I'm a KB editor there, so I got real good support for the problem from them. And it was inconclusive, but all fingers pointed to the DSJ, though when Roon's involved, you'll find the folks on the PSA forum will be pretty quick to say the problem is with Roon. But I had NO Roon network endpoint connectivity problems before I got the DSJ, and NONE since I ditched it.

 

Just sayin'. Good luck.

[FrankMA]

1 minute ago, scolley said:

@FrankMA - Sorry to butt in. This could be ER, but I'm guessing possibly not.

 

I had a PS Audio Directstream JR, which had the same network hardware/software that your Directstream DAC has now. And I traded it in because of the endless - if somewhat sporadic - connectivity problems. I've had multiple network endpoints for Roon over the years, and they've all been stable but that one. And if you swing over to Roon's forum, you'll see that I'm a KB editor there, so I got real good support for the problem from them. And it was inconclusive, but all fingers pointed to the DSJ, though when Roon's involved, you'll find the folks on the PSA forum will be pretty quick to say the problem is with Roon. But I had NO Roon network endpoint connectivity problems before I got the DSJ, and NONE since I ditched it.

 

Just sayin'. Good luck.

Hi @scolley Thanks for your thoughts

 

I thought it was a bit unusual where Paul at PSA said it was Roon and their Tech support agreed with him (no finger pointing) when I mentioned it (saying it was a known issue).

 

I really like this DAC but I guess I am going to have to consider moving on from it if this doesn't get resolved in this next Roon update

 

Thank you

[PhilSLG]

2 hours ago, Superdad said:

 

Hi Phil:

Sorry to hear you are having some trouble. Actual EtherREGEN failure is exceedingly rare, so it will be interesting to see what AfterDark reports once they receive your unit.

 

By the way, there is never a need to reload the original firmware file. The file on our web site is the same as has been loaded on every unit since December 1, 2019!

We have never seen corruption of that on an EtherREGEN.  So your earlier success after reloading the firmware must have been due to something else.  I state this because we really do not want a bunch of people trying to solve connectivity problems by opening and reloading firmware.  

 

You are welcome to write to us directly as well.  I will probably reply with a request for a diagram of your network.  It is well know that the Roon RAAT protocol--for all its ease of use with finding endpoints--is a bit fussy with some networks and endpoints. It is constantly polling the endpoint to confirm its presence, and a little extra latency, either by the endpoint or from hops through a couple of switches, can sometimes cause it to "let go" of the connection and report it being gone.

Not saying that is happening to you, but this is why when Roon is involved we like to look as a wider range of possibilities.

We certainly have a large number of DirectStream DS/Bridge II DAC owners enjoying the EtherREGEN, so we know there are no compatibility issues there.

 

Best wishes,

--Alex C.

Hi @Superdad

Thanks so much for the quick response.  Adrian said that he's going to send the device to you!  Thing is, other than in October, it's been working fine until now.  Also, the other devices (eg Direcstream Bridge II, Apple TV,  Oppo) connected to the etherREGEN disappeared at the same time, so it's not a Roon Nuc+ issue.  That whole LAN line disappeared.  Strange. 

In any case, I appreciate the invitation to write directly, and your support.  I REALLY miss having the etherREGEN in my streaming.  In a pretty decent system, it made that critical level of difference.  Now I'm focusing on streaming from the files in my SSD than the broader palette of TIDAL. 

Kind regards, 

Phil

[Flashman]

Here’s a rave review by The Absolute Sound:

https://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/uptone-audio-etherregen-ethernet-switch

[Superdad]

13 minutes ago, Flashman said:

Here’s a rave review by The Absolute Sound:

https://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/uptone-audio-etherregen-ethernet-switch

 

Thanks for the link!

 

That review appeared in the December 2020 print (and digital subscriber) issue of The Absolute Sound, leading to a Product-of-the-Year award in the January issue (in the category of "Technology Breakthrough.").

I am very happy to see the review is now available to all online. Now we can link to it on our website... 

[sot13]

Hi. I am in the process of ordering my first etherREGEN. I would like advice / opinion as to the best possible placement within my setup. Please see the first picture below which shows the way I have my digital system setup now. I have the option of either replacing the TP Link network switch (Option1), or inserting etherReGEN just before my Network player (Option 2). Which do you believe is the suggested option?

[pl_svn]

Option 2 without the second TP Link Media Converter: buy an SFTP module and place it in ER's slot ;)

[MartinT]

Just before the DAC in your option 2 would be the best position.

[Cable Monkey]

54 minutes ago, pl_svn said:

Option 2 without the second TP Link Media Converter: buy an SFTP module and place it in ER's slot ;)

He can’t because those are 100mb converters. One would need to be a 1gb converter. 

[scolley]

On 1/8/2021 at 4:35 PM, FrankMA said:

Hi @scolley Thanks for your thoughts

Have sent you a PM with a few more details. :-)

[PhilSLG]

14 hours ago, sot13 said:

I have the option of either replacing the TP Link network switch (Option1), or inserting etherReGEN just before my Network player (Option 2). Which do you believe is the suggested option?

Hi @sot13

Given that the etherREGEN is designed to galvanically isolate and clean up the ethernet "noise", why do you still need the TP Link MC100CM / optical segment?  Doesn't it render that redundant?  It would be interesting to hear your feedback on Option 2 vs "Option 3".  Has any else compared that set-up?  

Cheers, 

Phil

 

[sot13]

2 hours ago, PhilSLG said:

Hi @sot13

Given that the etherREGEN is designed to galvanically isolate and clean up the ethernet "noise", why do you still need the TP Link MC100CM / optical segment?  Doesn't it render that redundant?  It would be interesting to hear your feedback on Option 2 vs "Option 3".  Has any else compared that set-up?  

Cheers, 

Phil

 

Hi @PhilSLG. This is something I thought about too... I will definitely try it - it is easy! Unfortunately I will have to wait for more than month, since ER are currently in short supply. Having said that, the existence of fiber in my current situation does make a profound difference in sound... The effect of both fiber and ER might be additive... or not? Somebody must have tried this scenario already...