EtherREGEN: Installation, Usage, Difficulty, Questions thread

[acousticsguru]

Question: no doubt due to the summer heat, my EtherREGEN is currently running so hot, I can't touch it with my palm for more than a couple seconds. Should I turn it off and wait until the weather starts to cool down?

 

Greetings from Switzerland, David.

[MarkusBarkus]

Hello David. How hot is so hot? Do you have a way of measuring that? 
 

I found readings of ~114F max. I made "aggressive" mods and I lowered the temp 3-5F. It fluctuates. To keep the moderator happy: These mods made no discernible difference to my ears! 😉
 

And BTW the honchos at UpTone have stated there is no heat issue. To me, it seems that is indeed the case with the case.
 

I have not personally heard any issues with sound degradation based on fluctuations/ increases in ambient or case measurement temps. BTW: this room is below grade, so temps range from 68 to 73F. Pretty consistent year 'round, FWIW.

 

So how hot is "so hot" anyway?

 

[acousticsguru]

1 hour ago, MarkusBarkus said:

So how hot is "so hot" anyway?

 

118°F just now, but it's about 3:30 a.m. local time, felt quite a bit hotter during daytime.

 

Greetings from Switzerland, David.

[bernardl]

If I may, how do you measure the temperature?

 

cheers,

bernard

[MarkusBarkus]

Bernard, when I posted about temps, I used a Klein IR1 infrared thermometer.

 

I took a number of readings near the center of the case top. That device is +/- 4F, so not precise enough for a deep study of the subject. 
 

It did give me an idea of what the temps were idle, running, with modified cover, etc. which was interesting. 
 

I could not perceive any differences in SQ relative to temp differences. That's likely not a surprise to anyone, given the narrow range of temp fluctuations at my location.

[dctom]

I find my ER does get very hot. I have been trying it with a Paul Hynes SR4 and it produces an improvement in sound however the SR4 also gets vey warm, tried 9v and 12v on the SR. Anyone else found this problem, I had the SR running a NUC and it hardly created any heat.

Tried the ER with my HDplex 200w again not much heat produced.

[Superdad]

5 hours ago, dctom said:

...the SR4 also gets very  warm, tried 9v and 12v on the SR.

 

It is normal for the EtherREGEN to run warm/hot. 

But it is drawing just 0.8A at 12V or 1.0A at 9V so it seems odd that your SR4 power supply is running hot. An EtherREGEN draws far less current than your NUC.

[octaviars]

5 hours ago, dctom said:

I find my ER does get very hot. I have been trying it with a Paul Hynes SR4 and it produces an improvement in sound however the SR4 also gets vey warm, tried 9v and 12v on the SR. Anyone else found this problem, I had the SR running a NUC and it hardly created any heat.

Tried the ER with my HDplex 200w again not much heat produced.

 

The eR runs hot not much to do about that, many have some sort of extra heatsink to keep it cooler.

 

I have owned two SR4 driving SOtM equipment and they do get warm to the touch but not as warm as the eR.

 

I have a HD Plex and that have a much bigger powersupply than a SR4 so that will run cooler with the same load.

 

15 minutes ago, Superdad said:

An EtherREGEN draws far less current than your NUC.

 

My NUC7i5BNH with Roon ROCK supplied with 12V draws 0,8A when playing music with Roon (no DSP in ROON) so in my system the NUC acctually draws the same power as my eR.

[dctom]

Thank you for the responses. I thought the eR power draw is quite low and should not challenge the SR4.

[JohnSwenson]

The EtherREGEN draws about 9 watts no matter what voltage you power it with. How hot a power supply runs is dependent on several factors.

 

The SR4 is a traditional architecture linear supply. AC mains go through a transformer to lower the voltage. This goes through a diodre bridge to convert to pulsating DC, then into a capacitor to smooth out the 100/120 Hz. This is fed to a regulator to produce the final voltage.

 

In such a supply most of the heat comes from the voltage drop in the regulator. Some examples:

Output from cap is at 10V, output is 7 volts, load is 1A. There is a 3V drop across the regulator, 3v x 1A = 3W. But if the cap voltage is 20V, the drop across the regulator is 13V, 13V x 1A = 13W.

 

Thus knowing the output current doesn't tell you how hot the supply will get. If the Supply is built for a specific output voltage (not adjustable) the designer will choose a cap voltage that is fairly close to output voltage so only a small voltage drop exists across the regulator. The problem happens when you have an adjustable output voltage. The cap voltage has to be high enough to support the highest voltage the supply supports. IF the output is set to the higher voltage the drop across the regulator is small, thus the supply is cool. But if you run this supply at a low output voltage the drop across the regulator is large, thus the supply is hot.

 

This might seem a little weird:  high output voltage, cool, low output voltage hot. Note this only happens when you have an adjustable supply. If you have two different supplies that have been optimized for a specific output voltage the temp of the supply will be about the same for a given output current.

 

John S.

[bailyhill]

I can support this argument with my experience with the new HXPLEX 300 Watt supply, which has 4 outputs--a 12vdc which powers my er, a 19 vdc which powers my Nucleus+, and 2 variable outs which I do not use at this time.  This supply is so quite, you cannot determine if its on, and it runs very cool.  No measurements but my hand tells me its probably no more than 80 deg F--about 27 deg C.  

 

And btw;  it does very nice uptick in sq for the eR and Nuc+.  Very happy with it.

[dctom]

Thank you John for your fulsome explanation. I had a suspicion the issue might be the adjustable output feature and the voltage drop created, having read something about it in the past, not that I have any expertise in electronics!

 

I guess running the Nuc at 15v, nearer the max voltage (19v), the SR was running closer to optimum so generating less heat. 

[jamesg11]

On 7/31/2020 at 3:52 AM, Superdad said:

 

Hi: My apologies. I did not mean to be confusing. I was just in a hurry when I posted. 

 

It seemed to me that you questions about using the JS-2 (which I ought to help you with privately or in a JS-2 thread) were conflating AC power sockets with the DC outputs from JS-2--likely due to my wording in the User Guide.

 

The shortest answer I can give (while still giving enough info to be useful) is:

a) If your network endpoint is on the 'B' port of the EtherREGEN then using a single JS-2 to power both the EtherREGEN and that endpoint will somewhat defeat the isolation moat of the the EtherREGEN;

b) If your usage of the EtherREGEN has only one (network feed) connection on the 'A' side, then there is a trick you can use which will allow use of the JS-2 for both the EtherREGEN and endpoint while preserving the full isolation.  "Turn around" the EtherREGEN, running your network feed into the 'B' port, and your endpoint from one of the 'A' ports.  This works great for two reasons:

1) We went to extra trouble and expense to make the EtherREGEN symmetrical about its moat (i.e. differential clocking and reclocking and all super voltage regulation is the same both sides) just so that B>A performance would be equal to A>B. Main reason we did it was for optical endpoint users (opticalRendu), but there are other uses for B>A connection, such as multiple endpoints or issues of power supply.

2) DC power to the EtherREGEN is to its 'A' side (yes, power makes its way to the 'B' side, but via expensive isolating converters across the moat), so having the endpoint attached to an 'A' port makes it not matter that both the EtherREGEN and the endpoint are sharing a power supply (JS-2) whose two DC outputs share a common -VE/zero-volt "ground."

 

Please do contact me directly if you need further clarification or assistance in this matter. 

Thanks, --Alex C.

Might try this - anyone compared sonics of js-2 powered ER to lps1.2 powered ER?

[bailyhill]

I have a HDPLEX 300W power supply that has 4 outputs.  I am using the 12 vdc for the eR and the 19 vdc (both fixed) for my Nucleus+.  Someone has suggested that this defeats much of the moat for the eR.  I thought that if the grounds were separate, that this negated that issue.  Can you tell me if the grounds are separate on this ps and if its ok to power these two devices this way?  If not familiar, how can I test this supply to see if its the case.

[octaviars]

@bailyhill HD Plex have separated grounds.

 

As long as a psu even with common ground just supply the eR and stuff o  the A-side you dont defeat any isolation that the eR does between A-side and B-side.

[jamesg11]

9 hours ago, jamesg11 said:

Might try this - anyone compared sonics of js-2 powered ER to lps1.2 powered ER?

Ok, found numerous comments much further back in ER threads ... Will definitely try the reverse ER method.

[RikkiPoo]

I have 3 music servers on a SOtM sNH 10G.  The SOtM sNH 10G is on the B side of the Etherregen.  The Etherregen's A side is powered by an LPS 1.2.  The LPS 1.2 is powered by a JS-2.  The JS-2 also powers one of the music servers.  Does that defeat the Moat for all of the music servers?

[jamesg11]

On 8/16/2020 at 3:03 AM, jamesg11 said:

Ok, found numerous comments much further back in ER threads ... Will definitely try the reverse ER method.

Interesting - set up ‘reverse’ ER (js-2) with endpoint out of A-side to ultraRendu (lps1.2) to isoRegen (lps1) to RME dac (js-2).

 

Got a hum! Pulled the Clipsal earth plug (on ER earth) from wall. No more hum. Now evaluating sonics ...

 

Alex, John - tech explication?

 

(& BTW, lps1.2 set to 7V or 9V output for isoRegen is optimum?)

[JohnSwenson]

4 hours ago, jamesg11 said:

Interesting - set up ‘reverse’ ER (js-2) with endpoint out of A-side to ultraRendu (lps1.2) to isoRegen (lps1) to RME dac (js-2).

 

Got a hum! Pulled the Clipsal earth plug (on ER earth) from wall. No more hum. Now evaluating sonics ...

 

Alex, John - tech explication?

 

(& BTW, lps1.2 set to 7V or 9V output for isoRegen is optimum?)

I just got a new phono cartridge (London (decca) Super Gold) and have spent two days hunting down hums! I'm burned out on hums right now! It turns out the problem was actually magnetic field induced from the turntable (Well Tempered Record Player) motor and from the transformer in the power supply for the phono preamp. JSSG etc is good for electric field hum not magnetic. Turns out the solution is a combination of distance and 1/2 inch thick aluminum plates. (THICK aluminum is actually a very good magnetic shield for low frequency magnetic fields)

 

With my scrambled brain I'm having a hard time visualizing your setup. Could you please send a diagram showing all power and signal connections, I might be able to figure it out from that.

 

Thanks,

 

John S.

[dctom]

On 7/29/2020 at 9:01 PM, scolley said:

 

 

"Avoid powering both the EtherREGEN and your ‘B’-side endpoint from the same AC>DC supply—unless you are certain the PS outputs used do not share a common 0-volt/-VE (‘ground’/shell). If they do you will be defeating the EtherREGEN’s sophisticated isolation."

 

 

 

Looking at my power supplies connected to the various components of my 2 PC setup - diagram below - is it an ok configuration taking into account the the proviso quoted above? ie; all the AC/D power units including the ER are all connected to the same Furman balanced power supply.

[Superdad]

3 hours ago, dctom said:

Looking at my power supplies connected to the various components of my 2 PC setup - diagram below - is it an ok configuration taking into account the the proviso quoted above? ie; all the AC/D power units including the ER are all connected to the same Furman balanced power supply.

You are just fine! 
Our concern and admonition is with regards avoiding common DC power zero-volt/-VE “ground” domains. It is not about the AC side of things—where the transformers of the power supplies are providing some isolation.

[dctom]

1 hour ago, Superdad said:

You are just fine! 
Our concern and admonition is with regards avoiding common DC power zero-volt/-VE “ground” domains. It is not about the AC side of things—where the transformers of the power supplies are providing some isolation.

 

Thanks Alex, that's good to know.

[TwinPeak]

I started an optical experiment some days ago. Ubiquiti X-SFP router > EtherREGEN. Ubiquiti’s green LED lights up when both SFP’s and optical cable is connected - but no sign of network, Mac Mini and NAS-disk connected to EtherREGEN.

 

Here is what I use:
Ubiquiti X-SFP router (properly configured), with 5 RJ45-ports and 1 SFP-port
Ubiquiti single-mode SFP LC-modules (Model UF-SM-1G-S)
    • Blue (1310/1550nm)
    • Yellow (1550/1310nm)
7m single-mode optical cable (one Yellow and one Green end):
    • Type: LC/UPC - LC/APC

 

I connected (firmly) Blue SFP to Ubiquiti router and Yellow to EtherREGEN's SFP cage (firmly). Disconnected attached regular Cat5 ethernet cable. Restarted Mac Mini in order to catch up with the new connection. Went back to iMac and checked the network. No sign of either Mac Mini, UltraRendu or NAS-disk. I restarted the entire audio system and waited. Still no sign of network.

 

Can anyone please tell me if I use wrong SFP-modules, wrong optical cable - or both?

 

Here is what the EtherREGEN manual says:
“Only Gigabit LC-optical or copper interface modules are compatible with the SFP cage of the EtherREGEN. They can be SX multi-mode, LX multi-mode, or LX single-mode, as long as they are Gigabit and match what is used at the other end of the optical cable.
The modules at each end can be from different manufacturers as long as their type and mode specifications match. While some manufacturer’s switches work only with special “branded” SFP modules, that is just an ID code stored in the module. The EtherREGEN ignores this code so any Gigabit SFP module can be used regardless of manufacturer code”.
 

Tom

My SetUp 2020-v7.pdf

[octaviars]

@TwinPeak log in to your router, select dashboard. Look at the bottom at switch0 and press the button to the right. Select VLAN and see if eth5 (sfp port) is a part of the switch if it is not that check the box besides eth5.

 

This makes the sfp a part of the switch that talks to the other ports.

[JohnSwenson]

7 hours ago, TwinPeak said:

I started an optical experiment some days ago. Ubiquiti X-SFP router > EtherREGEN. Ubiquiti’s green LED lights up when both SFP’s and optical cable is connected - but no sign of network, Mac Mini and NAS-disk connected to EtherREGEN.

 

Here is what I use:
Ubiquiti X-SFP router (properly configured), with 5 RJ45-ports and 1 SFP-port
Ubiquiti single-mode SFP LC-modules (Model UF-SM-1G-S)
    • Blue (1310/1550nm)
    • Yellow (1550/1310nm)
7m single-mode optical cable (one Yellow and one Green end):
    • Type: LC/UPC - LC/APC

 

I connected (firmly) Blue SFP to Ubiquiti router and Yellow to EtherREGEN's SFP cage (firmly). Disconnected attached regular Cat5 ethernet cable. Restarted Mac Mini in order to catch up with the new connection. Went back to iMac and checked the network. No sign of either Mac Mini, UltraRendu or NAS-disk. I restarted the entire audio system and waited. Still no sign of network.

 

Can anyone please tell me if I use wrong SFP-modules, wrong optical cable - or both?

 

Here is what the EtherREGEN manual says:
“Only Gigabit LC-optical or copper interface modules are compatible with the SFP cage of the EtherREGEN. They can be SX multi-mode, LX multi-mode, or LX single-mode, as long as they are Gigabit and match what is used at the other end of the optical cable.
The modules at each end can be from different manufacturers as long as their type and mode specifications match. While some manufacturer’s switches work only with special “branded” SFP modules, that is just an ID code stored in the module. The EtherREGEN ignores this code so any Gigabit SFP module can be used regardless of manufacturer code”.
 

Tom

My SetUp 2020-v7.pdf 147.67 kB · 5 downloads

Hi Tom,

this is a very unusual fiber system, not normally what is used. Almost everything else uses two fibers, one going in, one going out. The ones you have use a single fiber and combine both in and out on one fiber. This makes the SFP modules much more complicated than they need to be. As far as I can tell the reason they did this is to decrease the cost of the fiber for VERY long fiber runs (40KM!) In a typical audio system where you are not running the fiber to the next county I think this is not a good compromise. One of the problems is that systems designed for very long runs typically have high power lasers which when used with short fiber runs MAY overload the receiver.

 

I'm concerned about the cable. Is your cable a single fiber cable? If it has a yellow on one end and green on the other it will probably not work with your modules. Ubiquiti says the green type is angle polished which is designed for certain special situations and probably will not work with the modules you have. If you want to stick with this system you will need a yellow/yellow cable, unless someone from Ubiquiti specifically told you to use the yellow/green cable. (the "wrong type" ie green connector will make a poor interface to the module, but that might actually help with the overloading issue. But I would not assume this unless someone that REALLY knows the Ubiquiti fiber system said to do it that way.

 

I am NOT familiar with the Ubiquity fiber system, they are doing a lot of unusual things and I'm having a hard time figuring out what that cable IS and how it is supposed to be used. There is a very good probability that cable is the wrong thing to use with these modules.

 

Unless you are working with someone that knows the system I would recommend using the much more common SFP modules with a dual LC interface.

 

John S.