EtherREGEN: Installation, Usage, Difficulty, Questions thread

[Cable Monkey]

OK, an observation. Using my preferred Vandesail skinny Cat8 patch cables, the system wasn’t happy. I had a similar issue when I tried to use an isolator in my system. I had drop outs and skipping tracks in Roon with the ‘network issues’ warnings. This happened via Tidal and locally stored files. I changed to 24AWG cat5 patch cables for server and streamer and my problems have vanished. 
Setup:

Internet>>
                 A>>EtherREGEN>>B Teac NT-505
Server>>>

Previous switch was  TP Link SG-TL105 powered with an Uptone LPS1 @ 7 volts.

Server is fitted with a JCat net card Femto.

[Superdad]

7 minutes ago, Cable Monkey said:

I changed to 24AWG cat5 patch cables for server and streamer and my problems have vanished. 

 

Well that's interesting--and odd!  Can't imagine why any properly functioning Ethernet cable would cause a problem for the EtherREGEN.

[dminches]

Alex, did you guys do a good amount of testing to confirm that having multiple connections on the "A" side, including one to a wireless access point that I have in my room, should have no effect on the B-side?  I know there is a "moat" and that's one of, if not the, main attributes of the ER.  I just don't know how much these ethernet signals in a switch "contaminate" one another.

 

I will do some of my own testing but if the answer is yes I can pull one of the switches from my main room.

 

[jcn3]

20 minutes ago, dminches said:

Alex, did you guys do a good amount of testing to confirm that having multiple connections on the "A" side, including one to a wireless access point that I have in my room, should have no effect on the B-side?  I know there is a "moat" and that's one of, if not the, main attributes of the ER.  I just don't know how much these ethernet signals in a switch "contaminate" one another.

 

I will do some of my own testing but if the answer is yes I can pull one of the switches from my main room.

 

 

i don't think alex could possibly anticipate all of the things that folks on this forum think of.  i think it would be great if you'd give it a try and let us know what you think!

 

[Superdad]

20 minutes ago, dminches said:

Alex, did you guys do a good amount of testing to confirm that having multiple connections on the "A" side, including one to a wireless access point that I have in my room, should have no effect on the B-side? 

 

Yes, that's what the 12-core per port 'A'-side magnetics are about, and combined with the ultra-low-jitter high-speed isolators and flip-flops you can feel free to load up the 'A'-side ports. I'd be surprised if anyone can hear a difference between a fully-loaded 'A' side versus just one port in use.

[dminches]

1 minute ago, Superdad said:

 

Yes, that's what the 12-core per port 'A'-side magnetics are about, and combined with the ultra-low-jitter high-speed isolators and flip-flops you can feel free to load up the 'A'-side ports. I'd be surprised if anyone can hear a difference between a fully-loaded 'A' side versus just one port in use.

 

Perfect.  I have been listening for a couple hours now with just one of the "A" ports populated.  Tomorrow I will load the rest and report back in the other thread.

 

[dctom]

2 hours ago, Superdad said:

 

Okay, so let's back up and confirm that the 'B'-side of your EtherREGEN is functioning properly (it should be as we test every unit):

Please attach something other than your AL NUC to the 'B'-side port. Your NAS, computer whatever.  Confirm that you can move data across the moat from A>B or B>A. Please refer to page 6 of the User Guide with regards to the meanings of the LEDs on each side (the colors mean different things for A and B sides).

 

Let us know what is the result.  And you can try power cycling your EtherREGEN as well.

 

 

Success!!

Thank you for your replies Alex. Power cycling the EtherREGEN has done the trick, NUC connected to all points now. Have been able to set AL on the NUC to 100Mps.

Does it have any "burn in" period? it is doing an excellent job as it is.

I can hear the improvements now, wider sound stage, the already excellent image is deeper, harmonics are richer and more detailed, subtlety stronger dynamics.

Congratulations on an excellent device.

[Superdad]

6 minutes ago, dctom said:

Success!!

Thank you for your replies Alex. Power cycling the EtherREGEN has done the trick, NUC connected to all points now. Have been able to set AL on the NUC to 100Mps.

Does it have any "burn in" period? it is doing an excellent job as it is.

I can hear the improvements now, wider sound stage, the already excellent image is deeper, harmonics are richer and more detailed, subtlety stronger dynamics.

Congratulations on an excellent device.

 

That's great!  

And yes, everyone reports hearing quite a bit of further improvement over the first 30 hours or so. Some of that is clock warm-up/stability, some may be other things, and some is undoubtedly the ear/brain getting used to and discovering all of what the EtherREGEN reveals. 

[k-man]

8 minutes ago, dctom said:

Success!!

 

[LowMidHigh]

@Superdad

 

Allow me resubmit my question:

 

My planned movie streamer is ethernet -> Mac Mini -> MiniDSP U-DIO8 with 8 AES channels.

(HDMI sends he signal to the TV)

 

First off, ISO Reg + LP-1.2 is to be placed between the Mac Mini and the MiniDSP.

The other improvements I’m considering is your Mac Mini DC Kit + external power supply.

 

Given the above, will an ER before the Mac improve the overall sound quality?

 

[Puma Cat]

1 hour ago, dctom said:

 

Success!!

Thank you for your replies Alex. Power cycling the EtherREGEN has done the trick, NUC connected to all points now. Have been able to set AL on the NUC to 100Mps.

Does it have any "burn in" period? it is doing an excellent job as it is.

I can hear the improvements now, wider sound stage, the already excellent image is deeper, harmonics are richer and more detailed, subtlety stronger dynamics.

Congratulations on an excellent device.

Alex has already responded but I'll just confirm that there is a benefit to "burn-in" that I've also observed. Having done a LOT of experiments to my digital streaming front-end this year, I've observed this with pretty much all the devices and cables I've implemented/installed, respectively.

 

Example: the excellent Sonore Optical Module needed about 72 hours to burn in, and in between first power-ip it up and getting to those 72 hours, it got very bright and detailed at about 36-48 hours, but once it got to 72 hours, it smoothed out beautifully and started to sound really very good. 

 

For any device that has clocks (and all digital devices do), the crystal oscillators that function as clocks are very sensitive to both vibration and temperature. These devices encounter a fair bit of vibration during shipping. Once they are received from the courier, installed and powered up, they need time to "settle" (with respect to vibration) and also to stabilize with respect to temperature. 

 

Its generally agreed by folks with a lot of professional experience in the audio industry (e.g. vendors travelling to audio shows) that most all digital audio equipment, and all cables, require at least 24 hours to settle and stabilize and really start to function optimally at  ~48 hours after installation. This is why many demo rooms at audio shows sound better on Sundays than they do on Fridays. 

 

Side note: a tweak I've found that provides an audible improvement for my network bridges (e.g. my SOtM UltraNeo), my Uptone LPS-1.2 and my EtherREGEN is using Herbie's Audio Lab Tenderfeet; these small square footers are inexpensive, and do a very good job of isolating these devices from vibration from the sound pressure generated in the room from playing music over loudspeakers. The SPLs interact with the audio rack, & feeds vibration into these devices. This is why many other high-end digital product companies e.g. InnuOS, Auralic, MBL, etc. implement vibration-damping functionality into their products. 

 

 

[Superdad]

1 hour ago, LowMidHigh said:

Given the above, will an ER before the Mac improve the overall sound quality?

Hi Guy:

Well that is certainly the idea. And since you have both an EtherREGEN and an ISO REGEN on order with us, it won't be long until you get to answer the question for yourself. 

[PYP]

The ER is my first Uptone purchase.  Installation in my simple system went smoothly (inserted an extra patch cable and the ER):  

 

Computer/Roon  >>  

router (isp-provided)  >>  

in wall cat5e  >>

cat6a cable (Blue Jeans Cable) >>

ER  >>

cat7 cable (Purist Audio Design) >> 

Acoustic Revive RLI-1  (passive filter)  >>

Tambaqui DAC (Roon endpoint)

 

I used the Quick Start document to get it connected, then checked the User Guide regarding the status lights:  flashing yellow for A side; steady yellow for B side; green for power (that one was intuitive).  Good to go.  Roon saw the DAC (as usual) and music played.  A good start.

 

Will let it run for a few days before posting my impressions in the listening thread.  New gear always take a while to settle into my system.  Tomorrow will probably try pulling out the Acoustic Revive to see what that does, if anything.  

 

[LowMidHigh]

1 hour ago, Superdad said:

Hi Guy:

Well that is certainly the idea. And since you have both an EtherREGEN and an ISO REGEN on order with us, it won't be long until you get to answer the question for yourself. 

 

Fair enough, Alex

 

But the operative word was planned.

I don't have that system in place yet, and your guidance would've helped with designing the topology.

 

Let me attack it from a different angle: Would going out from the 'A' side to the Mac Min potentially make any difference? Or that's an exercise in futility, and only crossing the moat can make a substantial difference?

 

[stevebythebay]

The interesting thing about the form factor for the ER: they don't like to stay put if any of the cables connecting are heavy/stiff, let alone the power brick is pulling the unit away.  Luckily I've got an extra VPI Brick to place on top of the ER so it stays in place on my rack.  Only real concern is ensuring I've enough surface area exposed to release heat from the ER.  Might need to use some "feet" to elevate them off the surface of the rack.

 

And thanks Puma Cat.  I wasn't aware of the sensitivity of such clocks.  Will have to monitor the temperature while trying to keep the ER stable. 

[Indydan]

For Alex or any EtherRegen owners; does the ER have any feet? If so, what material?

[thotdoc]

I just received the ER.  In the unit I received, the optical cage is an optical cave...ie there is no connecting SFP mechanism...just a mounting hole.

Help.

[MrDerrick]

The eR does not come with an SFP module installed.

[thyname]

2 hours ago, thotdoc said:

I just received the ER.  In the unit I received, the optical cage is an optical cave...ie there is no connecting SFP mechanism...just a mounting hole.

Help.

It does not come with SFP module. It was clear all along. I was personally prepared. I had bought this (need to scroll down) for $20 plus shipping

 

[thotdoc]

12 minutes ago, MrDerrick said:

The eR does not come with an SFP module installed.

Thank you. I took the cage out of the optical module and put it in the ER.

[lxgreen]

5 hours ago, Superdad said:

 

That's great!  

And yes, everyone reports hearing quite a bit of further improvement over the first 30 hours or so. Some of that is clock warm-up/stability, some may be other things, and some is undoubtedly the ear/brain getting used to and discovering all of what the EtherREGEN reveals. 

I have the same problem as dctom  but can’t seem to fix it. I have router to EtherREGEN a side and Ethernet out of b side to an optical module to an optical Rendu. Roon can’t find the Rendu endpoint . If I move the cable from the b side to the a side it does work. I powered on and off several times and clock is internal position. Any thoughts for next steps? Thanks 

[Nenon]

28 minutes ago, lxgreen said:

I have the same problem as dctom  but can’t seem to fix it. I have router to EtherREGEN a side and Ethernet out of b side to an optical module to an optical Rendu. Roon can’t find the Rendu endpoint . If I move the cable from the b side to the a side it does work. I powered on and off several times and clock is internal position. Any thoughts for next steps? Thanks 

 

The B-side is 100Mbps only. I believe your optical module is 1 Gbps (which is determined by the transceiver you are using).

Why don't you remove the optical module completely and follow the ER recommendations? That would mean to connect the opticalRendu to the A-side SFP port and your router to the B-side.

[Jud]

2 hours ago, Indydan said:

For Alex or any EtherRegen owners; does the ER have any feet? If so, what material?

Yep, 4 rubbery knobs on the bottom maybe around 1/4 or 3/8 inch high.

[Superdad]

1 hour ago, lxgreen said:

 I have router to EtherREGEN a side and Ethernet out of b side to an optical module to an optical Rendu. Roon can’t find the Rendu endpoint. If I move the cable from the b side to the a side it does work. I powered on and off several times and clock is internal position. Any thoughts for next steps? Thanks 

 

@Nenon is correct. The copper port of the opticalModule is Gigabit only, while the 'B'-side port of the EtherREGEN is 100Mbps only.  That is why your connection setup is not working.

 

It will always be best to have the EtherREGEN as the last device--directly connected to your DAC-attached computer/streamer/renderer endpoint.  So for opticalRendu users this means running the EtherREGEN B>A, with its 'A'-side SFP/optical directly connected to your opticalRendu.  

As mentioned elsewhere, the main reason we went to the trouble and expense of making the reclocking symmetrical on both sides of the moat was so that users with optical endpoints could "turn it around" and still get top performance.

[Superdad]

2 hours ago, thotdoc said:

I just received the ER.  In the unit I received, the optical cage is an optical cave...ie there is no connecting SFP mechanism...just a mounting hole.

Help.

 

These $15 optical transceivers off Amazon work fine:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00U77VPX2

They even are coded to work in most Cisco switches.