EtherREGEN: Installation, Usage, Difficulty, Questions thread

[Theobetley]

1 minute ago, JohnSwenson said:

Yes, turning the EEE off on the device directly connected to the A side RJ45 is doing the same thing. Note that EEE only happens between PHYs connected by a cable. So a computer connected to the A port might have the issue, if there is a switch in between changing a setting on the computer would make no difference.

 

As I mentioned before, even if you connect a device that you know supports EEE, it may not have the problem. Some chips don't exhibit the problem and some do.

 

John S.

 

 

What is EEE?

[JohnSwenson]

The temperatures listed here from users are all well within the normal range. I consider the normal range from 49C to 51C. If you are there or under don't worry about it at all. If you are getting significantly higher you might want to consider  a heatsink, but one is not really necessary for "normal" or under.

 

If you really want to cool things down consider putting the EtherREGEN on it's side, this allows for better air flow and does cool it down.

 

John S.

[BigAlMc]

5 minutes ago, Theobetley said:

What is EEE?

 

 

[JohnSwenson]

9 minutes ago, Theobetley said:

What is EEE?

Please see Alex's post #187.

 

EEE is Energy Efficient Ethernet. It is a mechanism designed to put Ethernet PHYs into a low power mode when there are no packets going over the wire. It is a cooperative protocol, both devices (on each end of the cable) work together to decide when to do this.

 

The main switch chip we are using has a bug in it's hardware which sometimes causes this to not work properly and drops the link. The solution is to program the chip so it doesn't use EEE.

 

John S.

[Superdad]

10 minutes ago, JohnSwenson said:

Yes, turning the EEE off on the device directly connected to the A side RJ45 is doing the same thing. Note that EEE only happens between PHYs connected by a cable. So a computer connected to the A port might have the issue, if there is a switch in between changing a setting on the computer would make no difference.

 

As I mentioned before, even if you connect a device that you know supports EEE, it may not have the problem. Some chips don't exhibit the problem and some do.

 

Since it is also possible that any directly-connected-to-EtherREGEN 'A'-side router, NAS, etc. might be attempting to negotiate EEE, just turning it off on a directly-attached computer may not completely eliminate the issue for those few who experience it.  That is why we are about to take care of this fully the right way--with new firmware for the EtherREGEN. So no need to fuss with computer or other device settings.  Just need to wait a couple of days. I am trying hard to get the foolproof, simple Firmware Loading Instruction Guide done today.

 

7 minutes ago, Theobetley said:

What is EEE?

 

Energy Efficient Ethernet.  It is a complex little protocol that does not do a whole lot. The Ethernet switch chip in the EtherREGEN supports it, but it's support of EEE is rather broken, so the errata sheet for the chip (released after we designed it in) tells how to turn it off with code.

[Account Closed]

1 hour ago, Theobetley said:

What is EEE?

It is a stupid program that wastes a lot of electrons trying to figure out how to save a few now and then. Seriously, just turn it off wherever it resides. It is as buggy as a termite mound. 

[Theobetley]

1 hour ago, Superdad said:

 

Since it is also possible that any directly-connected-to-EtherREGEN 'A'-side router, NAS, etc. might be attempting to negotiate EEE, just turning it off on a directly-attached computer may not completely eliminate the issue for those few who experience it.  That is why we are about to take care of this fully the right way--with new firmware for the EtherREGEN. So no need to fuss with computer or other device settings.  Just need to wait a couple of days. I am trying hard to get the foolproof, simple Firmware Loading Instruction Guide done today.

 

 

Energy Efficient Ethernet.  It is a complex little protocol that does not do a whole lot. The Ethernet switch chip in the EtherREGEN supports it, but it's support of EEE is rather broken, so the errata sheet for the chip (released after we designed it in) tells how to turn it off with code.

Thanks to both of you. If you no longer experience these drop offs should we not bother with the firmware update?

[Superdad]

49 minutes ago, Theobetley said:

Thanks to both of you. If you no longer experience these drop offs should we not bother with the firmware update?

 

Stay tuned on that.   

As John and I were studying the most current errata sheet for the main switch chip used in the EtherREGEN, we noticed a section regarding register code changes for improved PHY performance. I asked him to consider trying those.  

He did try those tweaks, and to quote the e-mail he sent me at nearly 1:00 a.m. last night:

 

"And it sounds quite a bit better as well! No Idea why, but it does. It is weird, the headphones are giving quite a bit better soundstage.
Listen to it your self, you might want to recommend this for everyone.
Wow! I'm listening to this as I'm typing, a new song just came on and I got goosebumps." 

 

So yes, it seems that maybe everyone will want the new firmware code loaded. 

 

Now, as usual the morning flew by with all sorts of logistics chores (getting more Crystek clocks delivered, getting parts on order and shipments out, replying to urgent e-mails) and I've yet to have lunch. So while I have the "magic" new firmware file that is to cure the EEE/connectivity problem and potentially bring another sonic bump, I have made zero progress on the instruction sheet. My wife is not well today and we have no food in the house, so I now headed to town for lunch and to market.

 

Will I have a chance to it myself? Not right away.

My first priority is to write the instructions and first send them and the firmware to a group of users in my e-mail box who have the worst cases of the connectivity blues. We want to confirm it solves the issue for them. (John and I both have had a hard time replicating the problem consistently; It never even showed up for any of our beta testers.) Once we have that confirmation, then I will roll it out publicly. Those few users who first test it can also give me feedback on my instruction sheet.

 

Most of you know that I am an easily distracted fellow--especially when it comes to responding here on the forum.  So the quieter you can keep things here, the sooner I'll have the above firmware update roll-out process going.

And please, even if you are having the issue, I'd rather you not e-mail me to jump into the above early test group. The names I already have slated to receive it represent a diverse enough range of devices for us to know if we have the problem licked.

 

Thanks all!

--Alex C.

[Indydan]

The following might sound like a silly question! I put one of these small (about 4 mm by 4mm) lightdim stickers on the flashing front LED on the B side.

 

https://www.lightdims.com/index.php

I find the flashing distracting. It is a little plastic like sticker that sticks without glue. I was wondering if it was safe, considering the case is very warm. I think it is, I am nonetheless curious.

[jamesg11]

... lightdims (any alternatives out there?) are an unmitigated blessing for those of us with ‘glare’ eyesight issues!

Zilch problems with gear over years; occasionally they come loose.

[Bricki]

3 hours ago, Superdad said:

 

Stay tuned on that.   

As John and I were studying the most current errata sheet for the main switch chip used in the EtherREGEN, we noticed a section regarding register code changes for improved PHY performance. I asked him to consider trying those.  

He did try those tweaks, and to quote the e-mail he sent me at nearly 1:00 a.m. last night:

 

"And it sounds quite a bit better as well! No Idea why, but it does. It is weird, the headphones are giving quite a bit better soundstage.
Listen to it your self, you might want to recommend this for everyone.
Wow! I'm listening to this as I'm typing, a new song just came on and I got goosebumps." 

 

So yes, it seems that maybe everyone will want the new firmware code loaded. 

 

Now, as usual the morning flew by with all sorts of logistics chores (getting more Crystek clocks delivered, getting parts on order and shipments out, replying to urgent e-mails) and I've yet to have lunch. So while I have the "magic" new firmware file that is to cure the EEE/connectivity problem and potentially bring another sonic bump, I have made zero progress on the instruction sheet. My wife is not well today and we have no food in the house, so I now headed to town for lunch and to market.

 

Will I have a chance to it myself? Not right away.

My first priority is to write the instructions and first send them and the firmware to a group of users in my e-mail box who have the worst cases of the connectivity blues. We want to confirm it solves the issue for them. (John and I both have had a hard time replicating the problem consistently; It never even showed up for any of our beta testers.) Once we have that confirmation, then I will roll it out publicly. Those few users who first test it can also give me feedback on my instruction sheet.

 

Most of you know that I am an easily distracted fellow--especially when it comes to responding here on the forum.  So the quieter you can keep things here, the sooner I'll have the above firmware update roll-out process going.

And please, even if you are having the issue, I'd rather you not e-mail me to jump into the above early test group. The names I already have slated to receive it represent a diverse enough range of devices for us to know if we have the problem licked.

 

Thanks all!

--Alex C.

Will these register code changes give improved performance for the B side PHY as well? Or do these changes only effect the PHY performance on the A side?

[Indydan]

1 hour ago, jamesg11 said:

... lightdims (any alternatives out there?) are an unmitigated blessing for those of us with ‘glare’ eyesight issues!

Zilch problems with gear over years; occasionally they come loose.

Yes, lightdims are very useful!

[Superdad]

36 minutes ago, Bricki said:

Will these register code changes give improved performance for the B side PHY as well? Or do these changes only effect the PHY performance on the A side?

 

'A'-side only.  The 'B'-side PHY is part of an entirely different Ethernet logic chip.

But 'A'-side flows to 'B'-side...  And I am assuming that what John reported to me was listening to a device that was connected to the 'B' side. But we have not spoken today so I don't know that for certain.  But if the register change (to the main 'A'-side switch) is from a technical performance standpoint improved--enough for it to called out in the manufacturer's errata document for the part, then I see no down side to it.

 

2 hours ago, Indydan said:

The following might sound like a silly question! I put one of these small (about 4 mm by 4mm) lightdim stickers on the flashing front LED on the B side.

I find the flashing distracting. It is a little plastic like sticker that sticks without glue. I was wondering if it was safe, considering the case is very warm. I think it is, I am nonetheless curious.

 

By the way, the 'B' side LEDs--both the main power LED and the ones above the 'B'-side RJ45 port--will be dimmer and more closely match the 'A' side beginning with the second run.  [It was a change we made between the final beta boards and the production run, but the different resistor values needed were not part of stock-pile of parts I paid for back in July and waiting on those would have delayed first production by two weeks.] 

I also hate bright LEDs...

[Nenon]

4 hours ago, Superdad said:

 

Stay tuned on that.   

As John and I were studying the most current errata sheet for the main switch chip used in the EtherREGEN, we noticed a section regarding register code changes for improved PHY performance. I asked him to consider trying those.  

He did try those tweaks, and to quote the e-mail he sent me at nearly 1:00 a.m. last night:

 

"And it sounds quite a bit better as well! No Idea why, but it does. It is weird, the headphones are giving quite a bit better soundstage.
Listen to it your self, you might want to recommend this for everyone.
Wow! I'm listening to this as I'm typing, a new song just came on and I got goosebumps." 

 

So yes, it seems that maybe everyone will want the new firmware code loaded. 

 

Now, as usual the morning flew by with all sorts of logistics chores (getting more Crystek clocks delivered, getting parts on order and shipments out, replying to urgent e-mails) and I've yet to have lunch. So while I have the "magic" new firmware file that is to cure the EEE/connectivity problem and potentially bring another sonic bump, I have made zero progress on the instruction sheet. My wife is not well today and we have no food in the house, so I now headed to town for lunch and to market.

 

Will I have a chance to it myself? Not right away.

My first priority is to write the instructions and first send them and the firmware to a group of users in my e-mail box who have the worst cases of the connectivity blues. We want to confirm it solves the issue for them. (John and I both have had a hard time replicating the problem consistently; It never even showed up for any of our beta testers.) Once we have that confirmation, then I will roll it out publicly. Those few users who first test it can also give me feedback on my instruction sheet.

 

Most of you know that I am an easily distracted fellow--especially when it comes to responding here on the forum.  So the quieter you can keep things here, the sooner I'll have the above firmware update roll-out process going.

And please, even if you are having the issue, I'd rather you not e-mail me to jump into the above early test group. The names I already have slated to receive it represent a diverse enough range of devices for us to know if we have the problem licked.

 

Thanks all!

--Alex C.

 

Very exciting indeed! Let me know if you need any beta testers for the new firmware. 

[rhombus]

3 hours ago, jamesg11 said:

... lightdims (any alternatives out there?)

 

I just use black electrical tape.

[BigAlMc]

The 7 circles of hell - a salutary warning about the quest for "more".

 

For the last 6 months or so I've been paying less and less attention to these forums and instead focused on just enjoying my music. And darn nice it was too. Highly recommended for whatever that's worth.

 

Anyway. I ordered an ER from Martin at AudioStore but was genuinely unfazed whether I was in batch 1, 2 or 3.

 

Last Tuesday my ER turns up and I'm excited to put it into my system. But then the bad times start and I'm one of the users impacted by dropouts 😒 My previously rock solid system keeps refusing to talk to my phone's Roon App and worse still the music itself starts either cutting out, skipping or just stopping.

 

I post here and follow the advice given. Replace ethernet cables with metallic connectors for only plastic ones. Check. Monitor the IP addresses of server and endpoint - check. I don't want to argue with the genius that is John S but I don't see the IP addresses changing at all so pretty sure it's not the lease thingy. Install FING on my phone and check the network status during dropouts. Check. Try just the server and no endpoint. Rock solid, no dropouts. But no magic either. Defo a step backwards in terms of the all important Sound Quality.

 

At this stage I'm sure it's to do with the fact I'd implemented bridging and capped the network speed to 100MB in AudioLinux. So I set upon a fresh install as I'm on version 0.7 and Pierro has been busy and has issued 2.1. Long story short and mostly due to my own technical incompetence I waste an entire weekend trying and failing to get a steady build of 2.1 for my Roon server. Not fun!

 

Anyway, then we have the EEE breakthrough. So I park 2.1 for now and I revert to the 0.7 USB sticks and disable EEE on the server.

 

I'm finding it equally amusing and infuriating that one line of Linux code seems to all that was needed after the last week of stress, fighting with my system and generally being hacked off at my inability to play music consistently.

 

Working from home today so follow the helpful advice of users like Ron, Pierro and Larry and get EEE disabled.

 

Music craps out within 3 minutes. But I reboot the router and it plays without issue for 3 hours. My expectations are high at this stage

 

15 minutes ago I go to add music to the music playing and my phone is searching for my Roon server.... Dammit! 🤬

 

Then minutes later the music stops. Mutha***************

 

Here's the ethtool status showing EEE disabled:

 

 

Reboot the ER and bingo. We're back. Just for how long is the question 🤔

 

My network is 100GB fibre optic coming into the building. Standard ZTE router. Ethernet to ER A side from router. Ethernet from ER A side to server. Ethernet to ER B side for Endpoint.

 

Checked network using FING when the latest dropout happened and both NUCs were not present on the network. Greyed out in FING as remembered devices. But Ping doesn't work. Consistent with the dropouts prior to EEE being disabled.

 

@Superdad I await the firmware with interest. But any thoughts on anything additional to check or test given that disabling EEE on the server hasn't completely stopped the dropouts? There is of course the chance that the last dropout had nothing to do with the ER. But given the last week you'll understand my suspicion.

 

I'll report back if it continues.

 

Cheers,

Alan

 

[dminches]

2 hours ago, BigAlMc said:

 

@Superdad I await the firmware with interest. But any thoughts on anything additional to check or test given that disabling EEE on the server hasn't completely stopped the dropouts? There is of course the chance that the last dropout had nothing to do with the ER. But given the last week you'll understand my suspicion.

 

 

 

John S mentioned in a post that disabling EEE may not fix the "issue" if there is a switch between the server and the ER.  I am not sure what your configuration looks like but my takeaway is that the ER firmware fix is more comprehensive.  We shall see.

 

[rickca]

3 hours ago, BigAlMc said:

But any thoughts on anything additional to check or test given that disabling EEE on the server hasn't completely stopped the dropouts?

Here is a quote from an earlier post from @Superdad

Since it is also possible that any directly-connected-to-EtherREGEN 'A'-side router, NAS, etc. might be attempting to negotiate EEE, just turning it off on a directly-attached computer may not completely eliminate the issue for those few who experience it.

 

You've disabled EEE on your server, but what about your router?

[BigAlMc]

Thanks @dminches & @rickca,

 

Not sure about the router part. But will disable EEE on the Endpoint as well if it drops again. Has played fine since my last post. So one dropout in 7 hours. WAY better than before.

 

Cheers,

Alan

[rickca]

1 minute ago, BigAlMc said:

WAY better than before.

Well, that's promising.  I'd just leave it until the firmware update is available.

[PYP]

Is anyone having issues with Roon 1.7?  I've had the eR for about a week and yesterday for the first time the music stopped while playing from my library and Roon couldn't find my endpoint (DAC).  Tried a few things, but the only thing that worked was powering the eR off/on.

 

Had the same issue today.  Same solution.  I can see why those of you with the dropout issues have been so frustrated.  

 

my setup:  computer/roon > router (isp-provided) > ethernet > eR > ethernet > DAC (roon endpoint).

 

 

[auricgoldfinger]

16 minutes ago, PYP said:

Is anyone having issues with Roon 1.7?  I've had the eR for about a week and yesterday for the first time the music stopped while playing from my library and Roon couldn't find my endpoint (DAC).  Tried a few things, but the only thing that worked was powering the eR off/on.

 

Had the same issue today.  Same solution.  I can see why those of you with the dropout issues have been so frustrated.  

 

my setup:  computer/roon > router (isp-provided) > ethernet > eR > ethernet > DAC (roon endpoint).

 

 

 

Have you rebooted the roon endpoint/DAC since you installed Roon 1.7?

[PYP]

9 minutes ago, auricgoldfinger said:

 

Have you rebooted the roon endpoint/DAC since you installed Roon 1.7?

 

Yes. Twice. Once before powering cycling eR, which didn't work and once after.  Thanks for the suggestion.

 

The first instance may have been the day of the update (just before updating).  But everything is playing now.  Will see if it remains stable.  

[cat6man]

16 hours ago, Superdad said:

 

'A'-side only.  The 'B'-side PHY is part of an entirely different Ethernet logic chip.

But 'A'-side flows to 'B'-side...  And I am assuming that what John reported to me was listening to a device that was connected to the 'B' side. But we have not spoken today so I don't know that for certain.  But if the register change (to the main 'A'-side switch) is from a technical performance standpoint improved--enough for it to called out in the manufacturer's errata document for the part, then I see no down side to it.

 

re: A side flows to B side

 

for those of us with opticalRendus, it would be interesting if the register change benefit accrued to the A side optical when used downstream.

are any of your early testers running B==>A and able to look at that direction?

[rogerdn]

5 hours ago, PYP said:

Is anyone having issues with Roon 1.7?  I've had the eR for about a week and yesterday for the first time the music stopped while playing from my library and Roon couldn't find my endpoint (DAC).  Tried a few things, but the only thing that worked was powering the eR off/on.

 

Had the same issue today.  Same solution.  I can see why those of you with the dropout issues have been so frustrated.  

 

my setup:  computer/roon > router (isp-provided) > ethernet > eR > ethernet > DAC (roon endpoint).

 

 

Had 1.7 for  a day now, ok so far,