EtherREGEN: Installation, Usage, Difficulty, Questions thread

[Roasty]

hey guys. have ordered and am awaiting delivery of an EtherRegen. before it arrives, could someone suggest where to place it in my chain? at present it looks like this:

 

wall outlet > linksys gigabit switch > Intel Nuc > USB cable > Singxer SU-6 > IIS cable to dac

 

should the EtherRegen go just before the gigabit switch, or after? (apologies if this has been asked multiple times before..)

[Roasty]

4 minutes ago, bailyhill said:

The manual and Uptone website suggests the B side as close to the dac as possible.  If you have more items plugged into the BS switch, you can cascade it with the ER.  I got best results cascading the classic Cisco 2960 and the ER.  I plugged several things

into the Cisco and cascade that to the ER to the A side, and from the B side directly to my DAC,

 

Experiment a bit, as all systems are different.

 

sorry a bit new to the nomenclature..
when u say cascade, do you mean:

 

gigabit switch to all my other equipment as well as the ER (A side), then ER (B side) to Intel Nuc

 

12 minutes ago, elan120 said:

Are there other items plugged into the existing GB switch?  There are 4 inputs on the A side of ER, so if there are no more than 4 items plugged into GB switch, ER can just replace the existing GB switch.

 

yes, i am using 6 out of 8 ports on the gigabit switch at present.

 

 

thanks guys!

 

[Roasty]

3 minutes ago, octaviars said:

@mourip I have tried different voltages and the heat is the same so not much to gain there.

I run mine at 12v now and before I added heat sinks it was around 47-48C with heat sinks it is around 37-38C.

 

Sound wise in my system I found no differences between voltages and I had only a 12v available rail in my PSU so I went with that.

 

Could you share a pic? Would like to see where u added them and what they look like. 

[Roasty]

I have just acquired an ultracaps lps 1.2

 

9v setting on LPS should be fine right? 

 

Also, both the EtherRegen and LPS 1.2 run pretty hot. I assume they should not be stacked? 

[Roasty]

I just bought a Keces P8 dual output lps. Using it with my EtherRegen and Intel NUC. 

 

Question. Do u guys ever power down your EtherRegen? And, an extension of the question would be, in addition do u guys ever power down your lps as well? 

[Roasty]

If I use the EtherRegen solely for audio, ie single ethernet cable into side A, do I still need to ground the ER if using the LPS 1.2 or Keces P8? I read somewhere the leakage is only between the ports in the A side, and doesn't affect output from B side? 

 

If so, can someone explain in simple English how I can go about using the ground post?

[Roasty]

7 hours ago, Superdad said:

If you have only a single connection to the ‘A’ side, then you have no need to use the ground screw—even if you are powering with a “floated” output supply.

 

Thanks for confirming and clarifying!

 

 

7 hours ago, PYP said:

  

connect these two:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07VSDTVVX/

https://www.amazon.com/StaticTek-Adapter-Universal-Connection-Unbreakable/dp/B071J61CSV

 

then connect the spade to the eR (see eR instructions) and connect the plug to any outlet.  listen for a few days, then unplug and listen for a while.  can also try different outlets.  

 

you are a gem!

 

i need to ask a question which may sound silly.. i'm in Singapore and our power outlets have on/off switches. after i plug in the banana plug outlet adaptor into the power outlet, do i still need to flick the switch to ON, or does it just have to sit in the outlet socket.

 

also, would one of these be suitable? 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/s?=Anti+Static+Grounding+Plug&ref=nb_sb_noss

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Anti-Static-ESD-Grounding-Bonding-Plug-2-x-10-mm-Studs-1-x-M5-Post-UK-Plug/292529618732?hash=item441c1fbf2c:g:PgMAAOSwoDFa2GR-

 

if this kind of plug is ok, i may just get it with a spade to spade connection.

 

 

4 hours ago, Ultrarunner said:

I found that grounding my LPS 1.2-powered EtherRegen did make a noticeable improvement. It was certainly cheap and easy enough to try. 

 

oh that's good to hear! i may end up connecting a NAS to the ER. will give the grounding a shot and see what difference it makes.

[Roasty]

22 minutes ago, kelvinwsy said:

Roasty - I am also in Singapore and have been using the EtherRegen for 2 months now, with Earth Connection to Ground.

1 DO NOT - And I mean DO NOT buy that Amazon power outlet you listed the weblink above from Amazon!. I had one of these and I threw it away. It is Deadly - Not earthed internally and I was getting earth leakage shocks. 

Get a Furutech or a PS Audio Dectet. Do not use China made power outlets!

2. I use a Furutech e-tp60. Quality and Top notch electrical Safety and Sound Quality!

3. It has 6 outlets. I use 4 for powering all my DC Linear Power Supplies for ER, IsoRegen, my PC's 2xSSD (1 for WIndows Server 2019 OS, 1 for Music Files), 1 double outlet LPS (for an additional PC Fan header, 1 for 12V LCD screen). The other 2 I use for earthing all my Double shielded cables, the Ether Regen, IsoRegen etc.

4. Just use a IEC plug with the Earth wires connected to the Earth Pin. If you are worried, remove the other 2 pin connections. I use Oyadie plugs, All the 3 pins are removable. So NO worries about any current flowing in your earth circuits.

Safety is alwarys paramount. 

Kelvin

 

Hi Kelvin

 

Thanks for your input! Can I just confirm that the weblink you're referring to (and asking me not to purchase) is this one: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Anti-Static-ESD-Grounding-Bonding-Plug-2-x-10-mm-Studs-1-x-M5-Post-UK-Plug/292529618732?hash=item441c1fbf2c:g:PgMAAOSwoDFa2GR-

 

 

 

 

If I use an IEC plug, how do you connect the wiring to the ER grounding screw? 

 

Sorry, this part of audio is pretty new to me. 

[Roasty]

Thanks for all the info, guys. Lots of stuff for me to read up and learn. 

 

I wonder how many people are actually using the ER ground screw.. My other query is when would it be absolutely necessary to use it, given that the B side is going to be "clean" anyways..? 

[Roasty]

Could someone enlighten me? 

 

If the EtherRegen is used primarily for audio, and the B port is the one that is used to connect to your endpoint/pc, why would it matter if there are leakages between ports on the A side? 

 

If I have an ethernet cable from wall to an A port, and a NAS into another A port, and and the ER is not grounded, would the leakage between the two A ports affect what comes out of the B port? 

[Roasty]

On 3/19/2020 at 9:31 AM, Roasty said:

Could someone enlighten me? 

 

If the EtherRegen is used primarily for audio, and the B port is the one that is used to connect to your endpoint/pc, why would it matter if there are leakages between ports on the A side? 

 

If I have an ethernet cable from wall to an A port, and a NAS into another A port, and and the ER is not grounded, would the leakage between the two A ports affect what comes out of the B port? 

 

Anyone have any clues on this? Sorry for quoting myself.. 

[Roasty]

2 hours ago, jcn3 said:

 

alex worked very hard on the manual for the ER to answer questions like you poised.  have you read that?

 

actually, yes, i have. several times. my understanding on electronics is limited.

perhaps you could help me out then, since i guess by your statement, you have understood the manual well?

 

lets say i don't use the power brick included with the etherregen, and i use another power supply (eg ultracaps lps 1.2 or Keces P8) which is "floating". then the A side ports are effectively not grounded correct? 

 

from the manual it says "Please keep in mind that all of the above regarding grounding concerns only the blocking of leakage from one RJ45 jack on the ‘A’ side to another RJ45 jack also on the 'A' side. Regardless of grounding, zero AC leakage from upstream Ethernet devices ever gets past the full active digital isolation and reclocking ADIM™—to the EtherREGEN’s 'B'-side port."

 

I asked in a post a few pages back that if i only used one ethernet port on A side, then it wouldnt matter if there was current leakage from that port or not, because there isnt any other port used on A side. and since B side is "clean". then i wouldnt have to ground the unit. to which Alex said this was correct.

 

so my question again is, assuming my ER is not grounded, and if i'm using a few A side ports together, how does/would leakage between the A side ports affect audio quality, if B side will always end up "clean" regardless.

 

if the answer is simple and i'm a fool for not having seen it/understood it earlier, then i apologize. like i said, my understanding on electronics and their science is limited.

[Roasty]

I am sending upsampled music from main pc using HQplayer to an Intel Nuc using HQPlayer NAA. My dac is capable of 1.536m pcm playback. 

 

I found that if I listened to MQA music upsampled to 1.536m pcm sent to nuc (naa) I would get short stops/gaps in the music every 20 to 25 seconds (regular and consistent). However, non MQA music did not have any issues (these were upsampled to 1.4112M). 

 

I spent days trying to troubleshoot this, and turns out the problem is with the ER B side port. 

 

If I remove the ER from the chain, I get playback with no issues at 1.536M.
If I connect ER to nuc (NAA) using only the A side ports, playback with no issues.
If I connect ER to nuc using ethernet cable from the B side port, I get the problem of gaps/stops in music.

 

Must be something to do with the B side port on the EtherRegen which is limited to 100mbps transmission rate.

 

Am relieved I found out what the issue was. Now to consider if I want the ER or I want 1.536m pcm playback.

[Roasty]

1 hour ago, JohnSwenson said:

 

 

IF this is what is happening you might be able to fix it by putting a 100M max switch between the HQP computer and the A side of the ER. That way HQP sees it is connected to a 100M port and sends the data out slowly so it doesn't have a problem when it gets to the 100M port on the ER.

 

John S.

 

I have the HQPlayer PC in another room, then NUC NAA in lounge. 

 

Lounge: ethernet > Gigabit switch > ER a port > B port to Nuc NAA

 

So u suggest to try putting a 100M max switch in between the lounge Gigabit switch and ER? 

 

I gotta look around.. Haha I don't think I have a max 100M switch in the house.. 

 

[Roasty]

29 minutes ago, ambre said:

Hi Roasty,

 

if you upsample to Dsd 512 or even higher looking at specs Dac what happens than?

Ps. HqPlayer designer has a clear preference for DSD instead PCM  (me too )

 

Can this issue be solved  within HQp? We need to ask Jussy about this.Instead of an additional 

switch.

 

I do have sometimes micro pops but suspected   that DIETPI in case of the Allo Usbridge Signature was or is the Root cause?
 

We learn every day!

 

Very best regards, Andreas

 

 

Hi Andreas.

 

No issue with DSD512 at all.

 

Only have issues with highest rate of pcm (1.536m). I did bring up this issue in the Roon Community hqplayer thread. Jussi did not reply to this particular problem, but he has helped me out on other issues before. 

[Roasty]

4 hours ago, Superdad said:

 

 

We often suggest that Roon users try to directly connect whatever is their Roon Core server (and sometimes their NAS) directly to an 'A' side port of the EtherREGEN.  

 

OK this will be tough as the Roon Core pc is in another room. Unless, I get another ER for the other room? 

[Roasty]

Just a quick short story. 

Due to the problem I'm having above, I removed the ER from my chain. I had a short listening session but felt something was missing. Plugged the ER back in, and figured since I'm at it, might as well ask my wife to confirm the ER is a good thing. 

 

I had her listen to the same song several times, each time playing the first 40 to 50 seconds. 

 

She was asked not take off headphones and sat facing away from me.  I did three quick sessions with short break in between. 

 

First session ER out of chain, and then ER in chain. 

Second session ER in, ER in, then ER out. 

Third session ER out, ER in, ER out, ER out, ER in. 

 

She managed to pick the ER each time.

 

I was quite relieved because I also do frequent ASR and read Amir's reviews etc and some of my audio purchases were based on his reviews and product measurements. 

 

I tried explaining to her what the ER was and how there were two camps, one saying ER works and the other ER doesn't work. 

 

She said "u know what, I really don't care" and then walked off to make a snack. 

 

[Roasty]

16 minutes ago, David A said:

 

That simply isn't their priority because they aren't fascinated by the sound of music in the way that we are. They can certainly hear the things that we hear but the differences aren't personally important to them.

 

 

 

You're right. These people are the best ones to ask for help when u wanna find out if your system sounds better or worse with a particular component.

 

They won't care about the price, build quality, how it measures, or the science or non-science behind it. But they can offer us a simple "this is good" or "this is not nice" response, which is sometimes, really just what we're looking for. 

[Roasty]

Can someone confirm/help me out? 

 

If I get an SOtM SNH-10g switch:

 

1) to use the fiber connection on the switch to the ER, I just need to get two sfp cages and a length of fiber cable? 

 

2) if I use the fiber port on the ER, can I still plug in other devices to the ethernet ports on A side? Is there any detrimental effect? 

 

3) the distance between the switch and ER will be only about 1.5m. Is there any point/benefit to even consider using fiber at this distance, over usual ethernet connection? 

[Roasty]

22 minutes ago, David A said:

 

1- Yes  but, my understanding is that the voids you plug the optical transceiver modules into are the cages so what you need is not 2 cages and a fibre cable but 2 transceiver modules and a fibre cable. Startech actually sell fibre cables terminated with the transceiver modules so you could also simply buy one of their terminated cables which is what I did to connect my ER to a TP-Link converter.

 

2- Yes. I connect both my Roon Nucleus+ and the optical connection to my router to the A side. I haven't noticed anything detrimental.

 

3- it may depend on other aspects of your setup. For example, in my setup my Roon ethernet endpoint (a Devialet amplifier), the Nucleus+, and the ER, the 3 components that essentially comprise my system, are on a dedicated mains circuit while my router is elsewhere in the house on one of the house circuits. Having a copper ethernet connection from router to ER provides a galvanic connection between the dedicated audio circuit and the household circuit on which the router is located. Using an optical fibre link to connect the ER to the router breaks that galvanic connection and did produce an improvement in sound quality. If your router and the ER and other parts of your system are on the same mains circuit in your home you may not notice that much of an improvement. In my case I'm very glad I did it.

 

If you had the SOtM switch already, I'd probably say just get the optical fibre cable and transceivers because they aren't expensive but if you're going to buy the switch then that's going to cost a fair bit more. I assume you're thinking of replacing an existing switch with the SOtM switch. If that's the case, then for the cost of the optical cable and transceivers plus maybe $20 more you can get the cable, transceivers, and an ethernet to optical converter unit and place that between your existing switch and the ER. If you get a decent improvement from that, at relatively low cost, then you may want to consider replacing the existing switch with the SOtM switch.

 

Sometimes the "suck it and see" approach is the best way to discover the answer provided you can find a low cost way of conducting the experiment and that's a low cost way of doing it.

 

 

Thank you very much, David!

 

i do not have the SOtM switch yet. I recently bought the sMS-200Ultra Neo + SPS-500 to use as a Roon and HQPlayer naa endpoint, and to replace an intel NUC which i'm redesignating as Roon/HQplayer core, and placing the NUC in another room. as usual, curiosity got the better of me, and i am reading up on the SOtM switch and the txultrausb unit as well.

 

i assume my whole house (condo unit) is on the same mains switch. i guess the SOtM switch is on the cards regardless; to be honest i'm not sure if an audiophile switch will even make a difference, or whether i'm just looking for an excuse to spend some money. i'll probably give it a try, as well as try out a fiber connection just to satisfy my curiosity.

 

is this the startech cable you were referring to?

 

https://www.amazon.com/StarTech-com-SFP-H10GB-CU2M-Compatible-10-Gigabit-Ethernet-Passive/dp/B00B3T6BFU/ref=sr_1_19?dchild=1&keywords=Startech+sfp&qid=1590537077&sr=8-19

 

 

**edit

 

i just saw this from an audiophile style review and interview with SOtM:

 

Q : How to use the optical ports? What is the benefits of the ports?
A : The SFP ports on sNH-10G can also bring benefits from the filtering feature which were explained on above. But we recommend using RJ45 ports with the good quality network cable like dCBL-CAT7 & iSO-CAT6 combination over using the optical ports, because the connection with RJ45 and dCBL-CAT7&iSO-CAT6 could bring the better sound quality than SFP ports.

 

anyhow, if i do get the switch, i will probably give fiber a try just to see if it does make a difference or not. the cost of the startech cable is not prohibitive.

[Roasty]

1 hour ago, Mike Rubin said:

I don't know anything for sure about that Startech SFP/cable combo but that looks like copper, not optical, to me.  I have no idea whether that would provide the same isolation benefits as does optical, but, if that is a copper connection, I think I would just get optical SFP's and cable and not wonder about isolation capability.

 

Prices aren't much higher for optical.

 

If the Startech combo is optical, please just disregard this post.

 

thanks very much for that. you are right, it looks like copper. 

 

 

[Roasty]

1 hour ago, Superdad said:

 

 

Hi Roasty:

Well

a) you already have an "audiophile" switch (EtherREGEN) so you know what it can do;

b) you could buy a second EtherREGEN and run fiber from it to you first one, and save a bunch of money versus that other brand. That would satisfy both your "excuse to spend some money" and your excuse to save money.  Performance will be quite excellent and space will also be saved.

Just sayin'...

 

 

ha ha ha! you are absolutely right about the ER. silly me..!

The ER is great and i wouldnt remove it. but just feel like trying something new and see what it brings to the table. The SNH-10G seems to fit the bill; looks good, supposedly sounds good, lots of ports etc. 

[Roasty]

Hey guys! quick question..

 

according to the description on the ER page:

 

The circuitry across the ADIM™ (moat) is designed to eliminate the signal-borne phase-noise from one side to the other. EtherREGEN is mostly symmetrical—there is no “dirty side” or “clean side.”

 

But the general recommendation is for the ER "B" side to be connected to the dac/streamer side correct? because although "phase noise" between the ports on the A side is reduced, it is not reduced as much as over the A-B moat.

 

so in what instance/situation would someone want to reverse it? ie go from B side to A.

 

 

[Roasty]

So I just set up an SOtM stack (200ultra neo, snh-10g, txusbultra) with full mods and clocks. Using planet tech sfp modules and singlemode patch cable from the snh-10g to the ER.

 

DSD sounds really really good now. I usually prefer PCM as I felt it sounded more dynamic, with clearer highs and more impactful bass. But now I'm really enjoying DSD upsampling. 

 

Have some FINISAR sfp modules on the way; supposedly these are "better" than the ones I have, well according to the folks on the sotm switch thread on whatsbestforum. 

 

Setting up the ER for fiber use was a breeze. Good job for including that option, Uptone guys! 

 

My cable mess right now. I think I've really gone overboard with my headphones setup. 

 

On occasion, I wonder what it would be like to go back to full basic and stock mode and remove everything out of the chain. With supplied power cables and basic interconnects, usb cables and ethernet cables.. But right now it seems like the point of no return.

 

[Roasty]

I gave the fiber ends/ferrules a good clean before using them. I bought a fiber optic cable and port cleaner off amazon.