EtherREGEN: Installation, Usage, Difficulty, Questions thread

[FrankMA]

I have finally bypassed the ER awaiting the fix.  Upgraded to Roon 1.7 and both Tidal/Qobuz have empty playlists and streaming fails on those tracks.  Connectivity issues every 1/2 hour.

I'll reboot my whole network again later because I want to listen tonight. Maybe Alex will surprise us today 🙏

[FrankMA]

8 minutes ago, stevebythebay said:

I suppose a good way to absolutely rule out the eR for those with Roon 1.7 issues is to swap the eR for the prior switch they were using.  By it's nature a switch is operating at hardware and portions of the IP stack well below the application level and should never affect what's happening at higher levels, let alone outside the device itself.

Bingo

 

Since empty playlists and songs not available in both streaming services are most likely network related, this will be a good test. 

[FrankMA]

Thanks for the update Alex. Process was easy. I found the instructions detailed & super simple to follow.

 

Streaming now and will report what I see. Big test will be over night

[FrankMA]

I'm still having a bit of an issue. Have to do some digging to see if this could be Roon 1.7.

 

I started streaming at 9:30AM yesterday. Before I went to bed at 10:30 or so it had stopped.  Got it running again by hitting Play Now at the top of my Roon queue.  The odd thing is Roon looks like it is playing (meters near the song working, in Play mode) but the song is not incrementing (on 0.00 and I'm getting no output). But I do get Track Not Available in Tidal/Qobuz (connectivity blip?) when I see this.

Same condition when I woke up this AM.

 

Each time I have searched for my player I still see it on the network (prior to the fix I didn't) so I'm not sure it's the same network connectivity/ER issue because before once the music was stopped the player was not on the network.

 

Still at the drawing board

 

[FrankMA]

Glad for you Thotdoc.

I'm pretty frustrated. Wish I hadn't introduced another variable (Roon 1.7).  Had 4-5 occurrences this AM. Rebooted the entire network again and it is working now.  If it stops again (likely) I'll go back to the Cisco and see if I can isolate or eliminate the cause.

 

[FrankMA]

2 hours ago, dminches said:

is this with Tidal/Qobuz only or your local files too?

Streaming (Tidal/Qobuz)

[FrankMA]

58 minutes ago, Puma Cat said:

It seems like Roon goes into a  "sleep mode" and needs to be woken up if its not being actively used, e.g. overnight. 

I don't think this is my issue. My Roon Core is on the Innuos MKII SE. Does not go to sleep like a normal computer

[FrankMA]

13 hours ago, Puma Cat said:

I think its a Roon 1.7 issue; I've been having similar issues ever since upgrading to it. It seems like Roon goes into a  "sleep mode" and needs to be woken up if its not being actively used, e.g. overnight. 

Hi @Puma Cat  Sure looks like it is Roon. Getting this from them as they troubleshoot for me:

 

Thank you for the additional info, we’re doing internal testing and working towards a solution. We do not recommend rolling back to version 1.6. Thanks again for your patience!

[FrankMA]

6 hours ago, emailists said:

I’d be curious to see if anyone else on a Mac can update the ER.  I had to use a PC.  

I updated the ER from my MAC no problem

[FrankMA]

On 3/18/2020 at 9:31 PM, Roasty said:

If the EtherRegen is used primarily for audio, and the B port is the one that is used to connect to your endpoint/pc, why would it matter if there are leakages between ports on the A side? 

Any thoughts on the @Roasty post? 

I'm interested in what @Superdad has to say on this because I'm also experimenting moving my Innuos to the A-Side with the thought of moving the noisier device pre-moat. However I see conflicting information on this and I'm not sure it is wise.

 

From a theoretical standpoint is it best to have ER setup as:

1. Network > ER (A Side) > ER (B Side) > Server > DAC    OR
2. Network > ER (A Side) Server (A Side) > DAC (B Side) - resulting in multiple copper connections on the A Side?

Thank you

[FrankMA]

I output to an MK2 SE from the B side no problem

[FrankMA]

7 minutes ago, Superdad said:

 It is well know that the Roon RAAT protocol--for all its ease of use with finding endpoints--is a bit fussy with some networks and endpoints. It is constantly polling the endpoint to confirm its presence, and a little extra latency, either by the endpoint or from hops through a couple of switches, can sometimes cause it to "let go" of the connection and report it being gone.

Not saying that is happening to you, but this is why when Roon is involved we like to look as a wider range of possibilities.

We certainly have a large number of DirectStream DS/Bridge II DAC owners enjoying the EtherREGEN, so we know there are no compatibility issues there.

 

Best wishes,

--Alex C.

Hi Alex,

I have been having constant dropouts in Roon since the summer.  I using an Ether Regen>Innuos MKII SE > Innuous Phoenix>Directstream DS.  PSA does not think it is their DAC (Roon concurs).  Roon says it may be fixed in next update but I don't get a good feeling about that. It is basically an unusable product at this point with the constant dropouts.

 

Could the ER have some role in this?

 

[FrankMA]

14 minutes ago, Superdad said:

 

Hi Frank:  

I am not clear about your chain.

What connections on 'A' and 'B' sides of EtherREGEN?

Where is your Roon Core Server?

Are you using one or both of the Innuos Zen MKII SE's Ethernet ports? If so, how?

Hi Alex

I haven't updated recently but this is mostly accurate network path of my audio system:

 

 

 

Roon server on Innous

Netgear to ER A Side (nothing else)

B Side to Innuous

Only using LAN in to Innuous. USB out

 

Thank you

 

[FrankMA]

2 minutes ago, Superdad said:

 

Well with Roon Core on the Innous on the ''B' side of EtherREGEN, I don't see how the EtherREGEN can be responsible for the issue you are having.

 

By the way, what sort of cable (shown as Nordost Red Dawn) is it that you have running from your Oppo to your DirectSteam DAC?

And what is us with the light blue cable (Ethernet) running from your Netgear switch the DS DAC as well?

Am quite sure you are defeating the active differential isolation moat of the EtherREGEN with one or both of those cables...

The Red Dawn shown on the Oppo is RCA to the preamp

 

The light blue is a LAN cable. I don't have that connected. I had gone back and forth between USB/LAN at some point.

 

So IF I need the Directstream connected to the network (since it is post moat), I should go from the a-side of the ER to the DS?

 

This sure seems like my issue based on your comments:

 

It is well know that the Roon RAAT protocol--for all its ease of use with finding endpoints--is a bit fussy with some networks and endpoints. It is constantly polling the endpoint to confirm its presence, and a little extra latency, either by the endpoint or from hops through a couple of switches, can sometimes cause it to "let go" of the connection and report it being gone

 

Thanks Alex

 

 

[FrankMA]

2 minutes ago, Ponkbutler said:

I'm not Alex (obviously!) but I doubt it. I listen to my Naim ND555 exclusively using Roon from a Roon Nucleus+ via not one but two EtherRegens without problem.

 

Hi @Ponkbutler

Most likely it is Roon (who are painfully slow to resolve problems). At their request I did test moving my Core back to a MAC and while it was more stable it still stopped overnight.  SO they don't think it is the core but more related to Roon and the DAC.

When it stops it does not respond to controls. Sometimes you will see the meters moving with no output. Sometimes Stop/Rew/Play get's it restarted. Other times not. Lately I have noticed at some point it seems to restart on it's own if I just don't touch the playback controls.  Painful 

[FrankMA]

1 minute ago, scolley said:

@FrankMA - Sorry to butt in. This could be ER, but I'm guessing possibly not.

 

I had a PS Audio Directstream JR, which had the same network hardware/software that your Directstream DAC has now. And I traded it in because of the endless - if somewhat sporadic - connectivity problems. I've had multiple network endpoints for Roon over the years, and they've all been stable but that one. And if you swing over to Roon's forum, you'll see that I'm a KB editor there, so I got real good support for the problem from them. And it was inconclusive, but all fingers pointed to the DSJ, though when Roon's involved, you'll find the folks on the PSA forum will be pretty quick to say the problem is with Roon. But I had NO Roon network endpoint connectivity problems before I got the DSJ, and NONE since I ditched it.

 

Just sayin'. Good luck.

Hi @scolley Thanks for your thoughts

 

I thought it was a bit unusual where Paul at PSA said it was Roon and their Tech support agreed with him (no finger pointing) when I mentioned it (saying it was a known issue).

 

I really like this DAC but I guess I am going to have to consider moving on from it if this doesn't get resolved in this next Roon update

 

Thank you

[FrankMA]

I use a 7V Farad Super 3 with the ER with no issues. This was Mattijs's recommendation for the ER at the time

[FrankMA]

13 hours ago, PhilSLG said:

I just did a comparison:

 

1.  EtherREGEN B port to PS Audio Directstream Bridge, versus:

2. EtherREGEN B port to Roon Nucleus+ > SonicArt reference USB > Matrix X-SPDIF2 (Farad  Super3 LPS) > AQ Dragon 48 HDMI  > PS Audio Directstream DAC (I2S input)

 

There was absolutely no comparison in my set-up.  Not even close.  Set up #2 just destroyed the Bridge option.

 

 Cheers all!

Hi @PhilSLG - a couple of thoughts on where you might go in the future since I have your DAC, ER and have owned/tried the Matrix X-SPDIF2:

 

1. Not surprised. The Bridge II card in the DirectStream DAC is not very good. All other options always beat it in my testing
2. Agree I2S is probably the way to go with that DAC based on my testing
3. I don't think Roon recommends using USB out of the Nucleus to output audio. Something about separating out the server/output functions. Better to just have the Nucleus (running Roon server) avail on your network to serve up files

Saying that if I were you I would try to get the noisier Nucleus device on the A side of the ER (other side of the moat). Of course to do that you need a Roon Endpoint to connect from the ER B Side via LAN. 2 devices come to mind:

1. Sonore ultraRendu (LAN In to USB out) or the
2. Mano Ultra MKII (LAN In to I2S Out)

I am using the latter to great effect with your DAC:

https://magnahifi.com/mano-ultra-music-streamer-high-res/

 

Only $1100 or so delivered. No LPS required (only a std power cable).

 

Sounds great and was far superior in my setup to the Matrix/Farad Super 3 and also better than my previous USB chain which was very good (and at a greatly reduced cost): Innuos MKII SE > ER/Farad Super 3 > A Side > ER B Side > Sablon 2020 LAN > Sonore ultraRendu/Farad Super 3> Phasure Lush 2 USB > Innuos PhoenixUSB Reclocker > Sablon 2020 USB > DS DAC

 

Good luck

 

 

 

[FrankMA]

5 minutes ago, PhilSLG said:

Thank you for your opinion and insights.  The Bridge II was great when I removed the USB from my Nucleus, but I’m very interested in the options you have recommended, especially the Mano.  Did you go for the SR Purple fuse?

Hello - Anytime. No. just the base HiFi-Tuning Supreme fuse

[FrankMA]

It is. However Hans's review is for the prior version (not MKII) and via SPDIF. I had asked him if he could review the MKII via I2S but he doesn't have any I2S DAC's currently

[FrankMA]

12 hours ago, mattjtaylor2809 said:

 
Hi FrankMA,

 

im interested in your experience with the Mano & how you’ve integrated this with your Zenith & DS DAC.

 

As you will see from my previous posts, I’m looking into installing a DDC taking the USB output of my Innous (or do you suggest the Ethernet output?) then using the I2S input on my DS Jnr DAC?

 

As the Mano is an endpoint, when playing ROON, do you see both the Mano & the PS Audio in audio output options? I’m assuming you still use DS to “play”?

 

Cheers

Matt

 

Hi Matt - My requirement was LAN>I2S because I am using the Uptone EtherRegen (which I would highly recommend) vs outputting from the Innuos. I have heard from some Roon insiders that Roon does not recommend that the same device act as a core and also output audio which led me to not use the Innuos (although Nuno at Innuos would disagree).

 

So I am Innuos > EtherRegen (A Side) > Ether Regen B Side > LAN > Mano > I2S > PS DAC

 

However if you want to use the Innuos to output audio, I would recommend the LAN Out > Mano > I2S > PS DAC

 

The Mano would be active as the endpoint in Roon. You would no longer see the PS DAC but it is processing the signal. This is just how Roon sees it

 

[FrankMA]

The Bridge II card in the PS DAC is not very good. Easily beat out by every other input on that DAC IME

[FrankMA]

9 hours ago, mattjtaylor2809 said:

Thanks, was actually looking at this model.

 

Finisar SPF's will be compatible with both the Microtek & SPF input on the EtherREGEN?

I don't have the Microtek but the Finisar's below have worked perfectly between my OpticalModule and ER:

 

FTLX1475D3BTL

FTLF1318P3BTL

FTLF1421P1BTL-NN

[FrankMA]

5 hours ago, mattjtaylor2809 said:

Current "Happy" State

 

 

 

Why not get that server on the A Side and output to your DAC from the B Side of the ER? I think you will find another uptick moving the noisy computer across the moat.

In addition some at Roon say the Core device should not also be the audio output device

[FrankMA]

9 hours ago, mattjtaylor2809 said:

As I've only ever used the Innous with a RJ45 into the (LAN) port & then out (STREAMER) into the DAC, I'm not familiar with other configs, especially if I remove the network connection to the LAN port, will it even work if only connected to the STREAMER output?

 

I have also read about not having ROON core on your streamer but it's not something shared by Innous & I did buy the Zen Mini after 1-2 years of research & even very close to building my own streamer, when it 1st came out as great way to remove ROON core from my main PC in my office. I'm not that tecky so having a NAS doesn't appeal.

 

Cheers

Matt

 

Hi @mattjtaylor2809

 

Ultimately to take full advantage of the EtherRegen (and it's differential moat design) you need to get that Innuous on the A side of the ER. Connect the Innuos LAN port to the A Side of the ER. B Side of the ER to your DAC

 

Yes Nuno @ Innuos will disagree. However very simple to test. Let your ears be the judge.

 

If you are using the Direcstream DAC's Ethernet input, it already is the Roon endpoint