EtherREGEN: Installation, Usage, Difficulty, Questions thread

[mourip]

I am considering an ER but am not certain of its best use in my setup. I am a bit late to this thread and have skimmed looking for a match for my own system but did not really see one.

 

I have a Roon server PC (internal library and Qobuz streaming via the Internet) with a NUC endpoint out to the rest of the system. My server has a JCAT Femto ethernet card in bridged mode so that one port goes directly to the NUC and the second is attached to a small Cisco switch with some other non-audio ethernet connections and of course Internet/LAN access.

 

I have tried very hard to have a "clean" side and a "dirty" side to isolate my system. Until recently I used two FMCs to isolate my server from the LAN. After doing some experimentation I found that a straight ethernet cable sounded better than the fiber in spite of my theories.

 

When the ER became available I figured that it would be perfect to isolate my server from the LAN. After reading this thread it now sounds like I should use it between my Roon server and my NUC endpoint (I even have a REF10 to use). I guess that I could buy two ERs however I am not sure my CEO will like that 🙂

 

Am I understanding its use correctly?

 

Best,

Paul

[mourip]

I have an er on order and am currently evaluating ethernet cables to run from the ER to my NUC Roon endpoint. Any idea how long I should give a cable to burn-in?

 

...if your believe in that🙃

[mourip]

My ER arrived this afternoon and I have it plugged in and warming up, but not in the system yet.

 

Question. My system has a clean side and a "dirty" side. If I use the included PS should I just plug it into the dirty side since the "B" port is isolated from the "A" side?

 

I have an LPS that I can use but I wanted to try out the various possibilities to see what differences there might be.

 

Looking forward to tomorrow!

[mourip]

Any recommendations for the best voltage for the ER? I ran it first off the supplied PS and and then off an LPS. Runs quite hot. Hotter than my server. At 12v it must be dumping a lot of heat from the regulators? Better at 9v? Also any thoughts about what sounded best?

[mourip]

Burn-In...

Yes. Do not underestimate burn-in with the ER. I left music running via Roon for the last three days continuously.

 

On day one I was unprepared for the harshness it introduced. It triggered a relapse of my Audiophilia Nervosa.

On day two I could see potential. ~24 hours

On day three I was thrilled. Audiophilia Nervosa back in remission. ~50 hours.

 

Music is still playing non-stop to DAC without pre and amp on...

 

I have the B side going to my NUC with Bluejeans cat6. My music server and LAN connection go to the A side.

I do have a Mutec Ref10 feeding it. My Audiolinux NUC auto-negotiated with the B side perfectly, having run at 1G previously. I disabled the bridge on my JCAT Femto server NIC as recommended.

 

Even if it did not improve from today I would say that it was well worth it and perhaps even a highend bargain.

 

Thanks Superdad!

[mourip]

6 hours ago, Iving said:

 

Great to read your early experience P.

 

Being the ex-user that you are, I wonder if you are curious about the potential of the eR when it is located between the stored music files and the DDC endpoint when the latter is a RedNet box?

 

In my system I noticed the "extra signalness" of the eR immediately (best summary expression I can think of although I realise it's better understood as "noise" mitigation) - although yes the music had edges of the bright kind as well as the focus kind for a little while. The eR improved day-by-day for a couple of weeks (playing constantly).

 

Your amps get stood down periodically? Well there'll be a confound (warming up), but your ears will be used to that.

 

I'd sure be interested to know what your ears are telling you at 2-300 hrs (eR listening impressions thread?)

 

Please assure everyone that by "ex-user" I previously "used" a Rednet AOIP system 🙂

 

It definitely crossed my mind regarding how the ER would work with AOIP. I still use my previous Rednet system as a benchmark to measure my present system against. I feel that I have surpassed it now but it took a long while.

 

My amps use tubes so I only turn them on to warm up for listening although the Berning design it notably easy on tubes.

I will definitely circle back when as I reach significant milestones for burn-in.

[mourip]

46 minutes ago, Roasty said:

I just bought a Keces P8 dual output lps. Using it with my EtherRegen and Intel NUC. 

 

Question. Do u guys ever power down your EtherRegen? And, an extension of the question would be, in addition do u guys ever power down your lps as well? 

 

I usually do not get more than an hour a day, if that, to listen and I have tubed pre and amp. I leave my front end powered up including my DAC...and of course the ER. My tubed equipment sounds good after ~15 minutes and remarkable after ~30 so I try to turn those on in anticipation of my listening session. Not exactly a "green" scenario but it keeps the digital circuits warmed up and stabilized to optimize my session. If I am going to be away on a trip I power everything off.

[mourip]

Very interesting idea about using the ER to clean up video. Makes sense. Not sure about sharing it with my audio system though, which is independent of my TV.

 

Currently I have two inputs to my ER "A" side: 1- LAN from small Cisco switch and  2- music server with local file storage. "B" side goes out to NUC Roon endpoint.

 

My Cisco switch has one connection to the rest of the LAN, one to a Roku, one to an Apple TV, and one to an Apple router in order to get better WiFi in the basement, but not placed near or used for audio except to use Roon remote on iPhone/iPad.

 

So I might try connecting my Roku to the A side. I can see that this could benefit video but I am concerned that the Roku SMPS might then pollute my music server. I guess I can just try and report back 🙂

 

Thoughts?

[mourip]

On 4/11/2020 at 10:01 AM, mourip said:

Very interesting idea about using the ER to clean up video. Makes sense. Not sure about sharing it with my audio system though, which is independent of my TV.

 

Currently I have two inputs to my ER "A" side: 1- LAN from small Cisco switch and  2- music server with local file storage. "B" side goes out to NUC Roon endpoint.

 

My Cisco switch has one connection to the rest of the LAN, one to a Roku, one to an Apple TV, and one to an Apple router in order to get better WiFi in the basement, but not placed near or used for audio except to use Roon remote on iPhone/iPad.

 

So I might try connecting my Roku to the A side. I can see that this could benefit video but I am concerned that the Roku SMPS might then pollute my music server. I guess I can just try and report back 🙂

 

 

I tested connecting my Roku and my Apple TV to the A side of my ER while playing music through my audio only system without either video device on. I also tested watching TV separately. In my system having the two extra ethernet connections, even with the two video devices turned off, degraded the audio. It was flatter and lacked the refinement I have come to enjoy from the ER. Video however was improved, both visually and audibly(built in speakers) from my TV, an older Pioneer Elite plasma which still holds its own for color tone and sound.

 

For now I will just disconnect the two ethernet cables when I listen to my stereo. Perhaps one day I will get a second ER to isolate the video but for now I have one more reason to love the ER.

[mourip]

20 hours ago, kzs70 said:

 

Thanks for your advice, I am considering a Streacom FC10 fanless case with SSD's and an LPS.

I wonder would it give any benefit connecting it directly to the ER A-side?

In that case I would have to put it in the listening room, so fanless would be a must...

 

I am using a similar FC5 fanless case with internal SSDs and an HDPlex LPS for my Roon server. It has two DC inputs: 19v for the internal HDPlex converter and 5v to power the two SSDs: OS and music. The server is connected to my ER "B" side with a very short ethernet cable and then via the ER "A" side to a NUC. I also have one LAN cable connected to the "B" side and two video connections also. When I listen to music I disconnect the two video device ethernet cables because I found that they had a negative impact when listening to music.

 

All of my audio devices use LPS supplies except for my LTS Ultralinear amp which uses a very sophisticated David Berning designed SMPS. All audio devices share a simple power strip to minimize ground differences and this strip is connected to the wall through a large isolation transformer. 

 

I decided to keep all parts close together in order to be able to keep this grounding scheme. The only audible physical noise from the equipment is a bit of vibration from the isolation transformer but it is not heard at the listening position.

 

Music is very detailed with a very black background and great soundstage depth.

[mourip]

52 minutes ago, kzs70 said:

Thanks for the recommendation, I am planning a very similar server to yours.

Do you use the 200W or the 400W HDPlex DC converter? If the SSD's are powered separetly the 200W might be enough for the rest?

 

And do you use the NUC or the servers as the Roond endpoint, or something else?

I connect my Lumin streamer (Roon endpoint) to the B side and everything else to the A, so the Roon server would be on the A side as well.

 

I have one HDPlex 200w LPS for the server that uses LT3045 regulators: 19v for the system board, one 5v for the two SSD's, and one 5v for the JCAT Femto NIC. My i3 system board is probably 3 years old and has a very low heat requirement so it probably is not pulling much from the 19v feed.

 

The NUC is my Roon endpoint. It is running AudioLinux in ramroot. No internal drive. The server is running Windows 2019 Server with Audiophile Optimizer v3 and the Roon Core as shell.

 

Click on "System" in my signature for details.

 

 

 

 

[mourip]

7 hours ago, mrkoven said:

I bought a second-hand EtherRegen but have a quick question on usage. I have an ethernet jack from the wall that I currently use a switch to connect my PC, TV, and a Lumin streamer. Is it best to connect the ER to wall and plug my PC, TV, Lumin into it? Or should I plug the ER into the switch and only have my Lumin on it. I'm not sure if it's advisable to only have the audio stream on the ER or if it's irrelevant. Thanks. 

 

I experimented with this a couple of weeks ago. I found that only having the LAN connection and my music server connected to the "A" side sounded best. When I also plugged in my Roku and Apple TV ethernet cables to the "A" side I had an audible decrease in SQ. I did think that my video and the SQ from my TV was slightly better when those cables were plugged into the ER. When I listen to music I just unplug those cables now. Try it and see how it works for you. YMMV 🙂

[mourip]

21 hours ago, Blackfiction said:

Hi, I am not really familiar with grounding...can I use the cable from the picture and connect the yellow/green part to the etherregen and the schuko to a wall socket?
if not, could anyone please explain how to do it and what cable should be used?
thanks!

 

If you are not confident working with line/mains voltage or testing for continuity you might want to buy something like this. Just cut off the snap-on connector and strip back a bit of the wire to connect to the ER binding post. The hot pins on this plug have no connection, just the ground.

 

https://shop.statech.ch/en/esd-protected-area/cables-connectors/grounding-cord-2-5m-10mm-socket-schuko-plug-1m

 

[mourip]

On 5/14/2020 at 7:09 PM, David A said:

 

I remember having some people over years ago when I still used discs. These people weren't interested in audio, looked at my system which is in a separate room, and said they wouldn't be able to tell a difference between it and a "normal" system. Most of our afternoon was spent in the living room chatting but every now and then one of the women in the group would wander off and listen to the system which was playing in the background. I wandered into the room on a couple of occasions and observed whoever was in there sitting in the listening chair, eyes closed, with a silly grin on their face and obviously enjoying the sound immensely. None of them went out and did anything to improve whatever they had at home as far as I know.

 

Non-audiophiles tend to say that they won't be able to hear a difference simply because they have no experience of really good sound but give them the opportunity and they have no difficulty in hearing the difference. What they don't have is any strong interest in listening to music as an activity in itself, they tend to use music as background and as long as they're enjoying what they hear they don't have a desire to go out and buy something that will give even more enjoyment to them. That simply isn't their priority because they aren't fascinated by the sound of music in the way that we are. They can certainly hear the things that we hear but the differences aren't personally important to them.

 

I once had a guy who felt that way about music listen to my system and ask me about its cost. I told him and he said that he could hear the difference but he wouldn't spend that much chasing it but he also said he could understand why I was doing that. He then told me about how much he had spent making performance improvements to his car, something I've never done with mine because that doesn't interest me. It's very much "different strokes for different folks".

 

This should be a "sticky".

 

Similarly even within our own hobby folks pursue it for different reasons. Some just love well reproduced music. Some love the equipment and the chase of "making a difference". Some love measurements and the science behind audio and music reproduction. Some love all of that.

 

It is a big boat and there is room for all...

[mourip]

18 hours ago, OldBigEars said:

Hi guys, I'm looking forward to receiving my ER.  Order placed.

 

While I'm waiting...I'm pondering various setup configurations.  The question I have is whether my 4K smart tv should be connected to the ER (A side)?  Or should I keep my TV away from the the ER?  I stream tv with Verizon Fios Gigabit service.  The option would be to go wireless for my TV.

 

Thanks for recommendations.

  

I tried it both ways and decided that having other equipment connected through the "A" side other than just the direct connection to my music server degraded the sound noticeably, probably due to polluting the server. For a while I would unplug the other devices from the ER when listening to music but that was a pain. Since I did not really note an improvement in my video and video sound anyway I plugged those connections back into the small upstream 8 port Cisco switch which was common to all. A fiber LAN connection to the ER with only my music server on the "A" side would probably be best but I have not tried that yet. My guess is that all of these audible changes are about grounding and which devices are on an LPS and which still use an SMPS.

[mourip]

4 hours ago, OldBigEars said:

 

Surely this is only an issue if both devices are running simultaneously - i.e. in this case, my hifi and TV?  This is something I don't expect to happen.....

When I listen to music I do not have my TV or streaming boxes powered on. I think that the issue probably comes from grounding pollution. My audio system is basically all using one unfiltered power strip connected to AC through an isolation transformer. When I plug other devices from my "dirty" side into the ER "A" side along with my audio server it probably still adds noise or introduces additional ground currents.

 

This is just a theory or guess. All I know is that in my system and with my own ears when I plug in these other devices to the ER it degrades the sound.

 

Give it a try and report back what you hear.

[mourip]

9 hours ago, LowMidHigh said:

 

I’d like to report the opposite. 

 

I experience noticeable picture quality improvement going ER(A) to MacMini (Tv).  No detriment to the signal quality from the B side. 

 

To be on the safe side, I have grounded both my ER’s. 

 

Speaking of which, I was so impressed with the video improvement, that I purchased a second ER, initially to feed my MacMini exclusively, but then I discovered the benefits of chaining the two ER’s. The MacMini is connected to the 2^nd ER(A), so there’s one pass through the B port. 

 

Good to hear. It could be that my 10 year old Pioneer Elite Plasma TV and older streaming devices(Apple TV and Roku) are not current enough to benefit. And that my audio system is pretty revealing.

 

The nice thing about this thread is that we honor subjective appraisals!

 

Thanks for the report!

[mourip]

I recently moved to a Ubiquiti Unify system. My ER does not show up on my console but another odd device does. It would help me with troubleshooting if I could determine what IP address the ER was taking. Any way to do that?

[mourip]

48 minutes ago, R1200CL said:

If you can Access your DHCP server ? Or is this what you mean by console?

Sorry Actually I mean Console which is the software interface that Unifi uses to control and configure the Dream Machine Pro Router that does DHCP and DNS for my LAN.  Sounds like my ER switch does not need or use an IP address though.

[mourip]

On 5/1/2023 at 8:00 PM, Superdad said:

 

Actual EtherREGEN failure is extremely rare (about 6 units out of 3,200 so far). Have you contacted me about it?  Most likely something else besides the EtherREGEN.

 

As for the EtherREGEN Gen2 release:  Just last week we received the months overdue samples of the new PHY chip we are using, so at last we can proceed with the next stage test board (integrating these PHYs with the new main switch chip we already have working).  Still, we have some work ahead.  Once this next board is running we can then proceed towards the unified design--with isolation moat, differential flip-flops, the new clock synthesizers, etc.  

Thus while I am optimistic that the path ahead should be smooth, we are not ready to predict a date of final production. Still 2-3 months I would say.

 

I have used an EtherREGEN in my system for about three years. I power it from an HDPlex LPS at 12v. Yesterday I could not connect to my Roon server. I found that the ER had no lights on, either for power or for the data ports. I tried rebooting it and also connecting it to another power source. I also tried dropping the voltage to 9v. The power light now showed but the data lights still did not. The bad news is that once it was powered up I noticed the dreaded electronic smokey smell. I quickly disconnected it. It seems like an internal component has failed. For now I reverted to using a regular switch.

 

I sent you a message via your website to find out where I might stand in terms of repair. Fingers crossed!

 

Best,

Paul

[mourip]

52 minutes ago, mourip said:

 

I have used an EtherREGEN in my system for about three years. I power it from an HDPlex LPS at 12v. Yesterday I could not connect to my Roon server. I found that the ER had no lights on, either for power or for the data ports. I tried rebooting it and also connecting it to another power source. I also tried dropping the voltage to 9v. The power light now showed but the data lights still did not. The bad news is that once it was powered up I noticed the dreaded electronic smokey smell. I quickly disconnected it. It seems like an internal component has failed. For now I reverted to using a regular switch.

 

I sent you a message via your website to find out where I might stand in terms of repair. Fingers crossed!

 

Best,

Paul

More info after reading a couple more previous troubleshooting posts...

 

I moved the ER over to my desktop system and used the stock 7.5v supply. I plugged one cable into my switch and one into my laptop.

 

The ER power light does come on. I tried connecting the two cables as: A to B and B to A and A to A.

 

None of these combinations produced connectivity as evidenced by accessing the Internet. The port LED on the B side does light up and blink. None of the A ports show a light or indicate activity in any situation.

 

Ideas?

 

[mourip]

11 minutes ago, Superdad said:

 

Hi Paul:

Are you certain that the little black slide switch for the Clock is set to INT (prior to applying power to the EtherREGEN)?

 

When I read your first post (wherein you said you smelled something and had been powering from an HDPLEX) I immediately thought that your HDPLEX might have thrown an over-voltage spike and fried Q1, the MOSFET that sits right at the DC input of the EtherREGEN.  We have seen that before. But then it would be unlikely for the main power LED to light.

I saw your e-mail inquiry from last night--and missed your telephone call while eating breakfast. I'll contact you directly today before noon.

--Alex C.

Thanks for the reply Alex. I did look at the external clock switch when I was trouble shooting and it was already set to INT

 

I look forward to speaking with you. 

[mourip]

On 9/14/2023 at 10:01 PM, mitch751 said:

Hi mourip,

 

I am sorry to hear about it, badly I experienced the same issue last month.

 

I used to charge my ER with JS2, one day I tried to make a comparison of different LPS, I changed  with another LPS made in China (similar to yours), the LPS was 12v so I thought it was safe, and I did not see the ER's LED light up instead of dreaded electronic smokey smell inside the ER. I opened up the case of the LPS and realised the fuse was blown, so I replaced it with another fuse, the LPS managed to turn on but not my ER .... I think the LPS might have thrown an over-voltage spike and fried th ER.

 

I have learned a lesson, LPS not only the sound issue but also the safety one.

 

This pretty much mirrors my experience. I ran my ER from the same LPS for several years. It also powers my Intel NUC Roon Endpoint. When I came upon the ER it had no lights on at all. In the process of troubleshooting I rebooted the LPS. Once I rebooted the LPS I did get power to the input side of the ER but the A side is toast. I did not add it all up but I think that the LPS had a spike which caused the overvoltage protection to turn off that leg. It probably did not happen fast enough to protect the ER.

 

I had a helpful and enjoyable phone conversation with Alex and we agreed on this cause of death. I am now debating whether to send it in for a post mortem or just purchase a new board. My unit is a few months out of warranty. I could also just wait for Gen2 or pick up a used ER...

[mourip]

22 hours ago, dctom said:

 

Thank you for your detailed  reply - I have carried out the instructions you gave and also cleaned all the connections. Very happy to say etherRegen is now working without a problem.

I do not know what the issue was previously.

Thank you for your help, apologies for false alarm!

Are you able to identify any particular point in your troubleshooting where the ER started working again?

 

In other words do you know what did the trick or did it just start working again at the end of performing all of the tips?