EtherREGEN: Installation, Usage, Difficulty, Questions thread

[Superdad]

For EtherREGEN owners, this is the thread to discuss any issues regarding installation and usage, and to report any difficulties you might encounter.

 

This can also be the thread for prospective EtherREGEN purchasers to ask tech questions.  Though I do ask that you first read thoroughly the EtherREGEN web page and also look through the User Guide. There is a really good chance that your question will be answered there.

 

Please post all reports about what you hear (and how you have the EtherREGEN hooked up) in the Listening Impressions thread.

 

As for the The long development and active launch discussion thread, that can remain the place for all other EtherREGEN miscellaneous talk. Things like batches, ordering, technical discussions not related to actual use, and just general EtherREGEN-related social chatter among enthusiasts. 

 

Thanks everyone!

--Alex C.

[Superdad]

8 hours ago, Bricki said:

I may as well kick this thread off with a question about ethernet speeds.

I'll come back to you on this in a few hours.  I honestly can not remember how we handle super-slow 10Mbps connections. EtherREGEN's 'B'-side port is 100Mbps and not 1000Mbps(Gigabit) for sure, I just don't remember if it can negotiate down to 10Mbps. I'll check with @JohnSwenson later today.

[Superdad]

29 minutes ago, dminches said:

All things being equal, if I decide to use an LPS to power the ER, what would be preferable, a 7V DC which puts out 2A or 9V DC which puts out 1.5A?

 

Well the current ratings of both the 7V and 9V supplies you mention will be fine to power the EtherREGEN. And there won't be a sonic difference based on the voltage chosen. 

So if you do hear any differences between those supplies (and you might not even versus the stock SMPS we include), they will be due to differences in their design.

And differences in grounding (of the 0-volt/-VE outputs) of those supplies could be the largest factor. Please refer to page 8 of the User Guide.

Hope that helps.

[Superdad]

5 minutes ago, alsterfan said:

So I have 5 questions:

1. Do you still use an SD card for MacOS?

2. Do you still employ a 2 Mac mini set-up as described in 2013?

...

 

Hi Uwe:

Nice to hear from you again.  Busy days here so rather than my going into detail, I'll direct you to this post where I explain my current set up:

https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/38968-etherregen-the-long-development-and-active-launch-discussion-thread/?do=findComment&comment=990592

The only thing that has changed since is that I not longer even use HQ Player Embedded on the Mac mini/JS-2. I just run Roon Server Core and on the NUC endpoint now run Roon Bridge instead of NAA.

As you can read from the listening impressions which are beginning to pour in, the EtherREGEN seems to be a "universal good," even in some VERY expensive systems.

As far as my personal experience with how much on the upstream side (not the critical DAC-attached computer/streamer/renderer endpoint) continues to matter, the truth is I have not had a chance to experiment (to do so I'll make my stock desktop iMac the Roon Core Server and skip the AudioLinux Mac mini/JS-2).

 

Best,

--Alex C.

[Superdad]

6 hours ago, sicher said:

As my post seems to got unnoticed in the shipping euphoria ;-), I'll try it here again:

 

I guess I don't understand what function the Raspberry Pi is serving in your chain. Your Naim NDX 2 is a network attached streamer/DAC, correct?  The important thing is that it should be fed by itself from the 'B'-side port of the EtherREGEN.

Connect the Raspberry Pi either to one of the EtherREGEN's 'A'-side ports or to your existing switch.  And have one cable going from your switch to an 'A'-side EtherREGEN port.

[Superdad]

4 minutes ago, sicher said:

So it basically doesn't matter if the Raspberry is connected to the switch or EtherREGEN's A side, right?

 

Pretty much.  The most important thing is that the DAC-attached computer/streamer/renderer endpoint (in your case that is the NDX 2 combo streamer/DAC) be attached to the 'B'-side port which is across the EtherREGEN's ADIM (Active Differential Isolation Moat).

[Superdad]

5 minutes ago, dctom said:

However my endpoint NUC, on the B, side no longer gets an internet connection hence no ip address etc.

This is the same configuration I had previously with the basic 5 port tp-link switch which gave fully functionality to the end point. Tried restarting the computers, running Audiolinux on both machines.

 

Hi:  

So on your AudioLinux NUC, what speed do you have the network set to?  The 'B'-side port is 100Mbps only.  So if you have AL on your NUC set to 10Mbps it won't connect.  I would think that if you had nothing specifically set that the AL/NUC's port would auto-negotiate itself down from Gigabit to 100Mbps, but @elan120 this morning suggested to me that this is not the case and that you need to specifically tell AudioLinux to run the port at 100Mbps.

I too run an AL NUC on the 'B' side of my EtherREGEN, but I know that its port is set to 100Mbps.  I'd experiment for you but this morning I have to get going on all the international EtherREGENs that are to ship tomorrow. Perhaps @lmitche is around to assist.

Do let us know what you discover.

Thanks,

--Alex C.

 

[Superdad]

8 minutes ago, Bernstein said:

I want to power the EtherRegen with my Keces P8. I know I should use the ground screw if I want to isolate the rest. What kind of cable / connector may I use for it?

 

If you wish to use the ground screw (it is not strictly necessary and you may or may not find that of benefit), then either bare wire or a small spade lug will fit fine. It is just a 6-32 screw size (about 3mm), so whatever fits will be good.

[Superdad]

11 minutes ago, dctom said:

I had not set a network  speed on the Nuc endpoint. However have gone into AL expert menu and it says the enol1 interface is degraded? Have tried to set it to 100Mps but it does not make any difference?

 

Okay, so let's back up and confirm that the 'B'-side of your EtherREGEN is functioning properly (it should be as we test every unit):

Please attach something other than your AL NUC to the 'B'-side port. Your NAS, computer whatever.  Confirm that you can move data across the moat from A>B or B>A. Please refer to page 6 of the User Guide with regards to the meanings of the LEDs on each side (the colors mean different things for A and B sides).

 

Let us know what is the result.  And you can try power cycling your EtherREGEN as well.

 

[Superdad]

7 minutes ago, Cable Monkey said:

I changed to 24AWG cat5 patch cables for server and streamer and my problems have vanished. 

 

Well that's interesting--and odd!  Can't imagine why any properly functioning Ethernet cable would cause a problem for the EtherREGEN.

[Superdad]

20 minutes ago, dminches said:

Alex, did you guys do a good amount of testing to confirm that having multiple connections on the "A" side, including one to a wireless access point that I have in my room, should have no effect on the B-side? 

 

Yes, that's what the 12-core per port 'A'-side magnetics are about, and combined with the ultra-low-jitter high-speed isolators and flip-flops you can feel free to load up the 'A'-side ports. I'd be surprised if anyone can hear a difference between a fully-loaded 'A' side versus just one port in use.

[Superdad]

6 minutes ago, dctom said:

Success!!

Thank you for your replies Alex. Power cycling the EtherREGEN has done the trick, NUC connected to all points now. Have been able to set AL on the NUC to 100Mps.

Does it have any "burn in" period? it is doing an excellent job as it is.

I can hear the improvements now, wider sound stage, the already excellent image is deeper, harmonics are richer and more detailed, subtlety stronger dynamics.

Congratulations on an excellent device.

 

That's great!  

And yes, everyone reports hearing quite a bit of further improvement over the first 30 hours or so. Some of that is clock warm-up/stability, some may be other things, and some is undoubtedly the ear/brain getting used to and discovering all of what the EtherREGEN reveals. 

[Superdad]

1 hour ago, LowMidHigh said:

Given the above, will an ER before the Mac improve the overall sound quality?

Hi Guy:

Well that is certainly the idea. And since you have both an EtherREGEN and an ISO REGEN on order with us, it won't be long until you get to answer the question for yourself. 

[Superdad]

1 hour ago, lxgreen said:

 I have router to EtherREGEN a side and Ethernet out of b side to an optical module to an optical Rendu. Roon can’t find the Rendu endpoint. If I move the cable from the b side to the a side it does work. I powered on and off several times and clock is internal position. Any thoughts for next steps? Thanks 

 

@Nenon is correct. The copper port of the opticalModule is Gigabit only, while the 'B'-side port of the EtherREGEN is 100Mbps only.  That is why your connection setup is not working.

 

It will always be best to have the EtherREGEN as the last device--directly connected to your DAC-attached computer/streamer/renderer endpoint.  So for opticalRendu users this means running the EtherREGEN B>A, with its 'A'-side SFP/optical directly connected to your opticalRendu.  

As mentioned elsewhere, the main reason we went to the trouble and expense of making the reclocking symmetrical on both sides of the moat was so that users with optical endpoints could "turn it around" and still get top performance.

[Superdad]

2 hours ago, thotdoc said:

I just received the ER.  In the unit I received, the optical cage is an optical cave...ie there is no connecting SFP mechanism...just a mounting hole.

Help.

 

These $15 optical transceivers off Amazon work fine:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00U77VPX2

They even are coded to work in most Cisco switches.

[Superdad]

3 hours ago, LowMidHigh said:

Fair enough, Alex

 

But the operative word was planned.

I don't have that system in place yet, and your guidance would've helped with designing the topology.

 

Let me attack it from a different angle: Would going out from the 'A' side to the Mac Min potentially make any difference? Or that's an exercise in futility, and only crossing the moat can make a substantial difference?

 

Hi Guy:

I have moved your questions out of the Listening Impressions thread to this Installations and Usage thread.

 

I guess I really do not understand what you are proposing.  If your DAC-attached computer/streamer/renderer endpoint is your Mac mini, then you will want to put it alone on the 'B' side--across the moat.

Certainly you can could hook everything up to just the 'A' side--and the EtherREGEN will just perform as about the world's best standard Ethernet switch (lots of great power supply, clocking, and magnetics on the 'A' side). But if you want the 'magic' that everyone is raving about, you need to cross the ADIM (Active Differential Isolation Moat).

[Superdad]

9 minutes ago, dctom said:

I should have explained further - my initial problem was not quite the same as lxgreen's, I am not using optical just copper to copper. However it does seem a bit like a handshake issue. I have set the endpoint to 100Mps.

 

I’d like to see a diagram of your whole network. Feel free to post it here or to e-mail me. Also indicate what operating systems and player s/w you are using.

[Superdad]

1 hour ago, dctom said:

Here is a diagram of my system.

Running AL on both machines 

I have been using Jriver media center mostly.

 

Looks completely normal. But you say that your AL/NUC endpoint is not getting an IP address at all?  What LEDs do you see above the 'B'-side RJ45?

 

Let's test A>B data flow across your EtherREGEN by eliminating your NUC from the equation.  Please attach some other normal computer--a laptop perhaps--to the 'B' side.  Does it get assigned an IP address and can you access the internet with it?

[Superdad]

37 minutes ago, flummoxe said:

Currently my system is as follows - Innuos Zenith SE - isoREGEN - Chord M-Scaler - Chord TT2.

In the next week or so a dCS Network Bridge will be added in between the Zenith and M-Scaler, and this is where i need some advice. Should the ER feed the Zenith Ethernet port or sit between the Zenith Ethernet streamer port and M-Scaler?

 

No, you should have the 'B' port of the EtherREGEN feed your dCS Network Bridge--which I assume is what you will directly feed your M-Scaler.

 

Always put the EtherREGEN furthest downstream!

[Superdad]

4 hours ago, BigAlMc said:

Ethernet from Router into A side of ER, A side connected to NUC (Audiolinux) Roon Server, B side connected to NUC (Audiolinux) Roon Endpoint which then connects via USB to my DAC.

 

I'd configured the NUCs to use 100MB and they were bridged in Audiolinux. Not sure if that's a factor or not.

 

Hi Alan:

Happy to hear that you got an EtherREGEN from Martin at AudioStore.

 

I am puzzled at user reports of dropouts or disconnects with AudioLinux set ups as I myself run an AL Roon Core Server (Mac mini/JS-2) on ‘A’ side and an AL NUC as Roon Bridge endpoint on the ‘B’ side.  It has been rock solid for months—with never a hiccup. And @lmitche, an AudioLinux maven similarly set up, was an EtherREGEN beta tester.

 

The only two thoughts that come to mind at the moment (besides wanting a cup of coffee—it’s early here!) are:

 

a) Someone else who had a “bridged” Ethernet AL configuration reported similar issues, so that’s one place to look;

 

b) When I first installed my EtherREGEN beta unit I had also been running HQ Player Embedded on the Roon server machine, and at the time that AL server had been set to 100Mbps instead of Gigabit. I freaked out because I was getting lots of dropouts at the beginning of tracks—and sometimes throughout (my music files are not on the server, they are on some shared drives elsewhere on the network). As soon as we set the server to Gigabit the problem went away.

 

So please check the LEDs on your ‘A’ side ports to confirm that you have Gigabit connections there.  And look into the bridging as mentioned above.

Let us know what you discover.

Thanks,

—Alex C.

[Superdad]

8 minutes ago, dctom said:

Probably a dumb question - but what should I be looking for in respect of the LEDs?

 

From page 6 of the User Guide:

 

EtherREGEN LEDs:

The green LED at left of the EtherREGEN’s DC input jack indicates that the switch is receiving power. There are two small LED indicators above each of the unit’s RJ45 Ethernet ports. The meaning of the colors and activity with cable connections are different for the four Gigabit-capable ‘A’-side ports than for the lone 100Mbps ‘B’-side port, as follows:

‘A’ Side
Flashing yellow = Gigabit link with network activity
Flashing green = 100Mbps link with network activity
Solid LED (yellow or green) = Link established but no network activity

‘B’ Side (100Mbps only)
Solid or Flashing green = Network activity
Solid yellow = Network link established (should stay on all the time when a ‘B’-side connection is made)

[Superdad]

47 minutes ago, wwc said:

Optical Modules:  I have the Startech #SFP1000ZXST.

https://www.startech.com/Networking-IO/sfp/modules/1000base-zx-sfp-module~SFP1000ZXST

It is Gigabit, Single Mode.

Is this compatible with the SFP cage on the ERegen?

Sure, those will work fine.  Just be sure to use the same type at both ends and of course use Single-mode fiber optic cabling.

[Superdad]

1 hour ago, soares said:

Tks. I also ordered spare  one when I bought my oM, but it doesn’t seem to be working. Will try again! 

Hi Jorge:

(Note that I have moved your question and related answers out of the Listening Impressions thread and into this one.) 

 

Make sure that your SFP modules are fully inserted. They might seem so but go ahead and push in a bit harder.

Previously I did not have a lot of experience with LC type SFP modules. But during EtherREGEN Q.C. testing we at first would often encounter a board where it seemed the SFP would not data connect. Even though it seemed like the module was fully inserted, pushing it in a little harder got it working fine.

 

That’s all I can think of for you. Assuming of course that you have matching modules at both ends and the correct type of fiber cabling. 

[Superdad]

1 hour ago, esmit said:

Powering the isp router off and on while keeping all the rest powered did restore all connections, it seems. Running for 12 hours now. 

 

Glad to hear you have it running steady now! 

 

We are convinced that for the handful of users having connectivity problems, it has something to do with loss of IP address lease with DHCP server/router. 

We are looking for common denominators, and so far the most obvious one is use of OrbiterOS (with SonicTransporters or Rendus).

Also, there have been a couple of instances of Ethernet DACs which use the Conversdigital mconnect input module (Ayre and PS Audio) where it took a while before they and the router would settle down and keep a stable IP address. But both those folks have reported being good now. 

 

I’m not a networking expert so I confess that I don’t fully understand what is going on. But John is very sharp with this stuff and there is veteran network engineer (here on this forum) who has stepped forward to assist in researching the matter. Once there is a conclusion and a consistent remedy procedure, we’ll share that here as well as post it to our website. 

 

We appreciate the patience—and the detailed information reports—of those who are experiencing difficulty. None of this showed up with any of our beta testers, that’s why we are caught a bit short with this issue now. 

[Superdad]

1 hour ago, lxgreen said:

I have been away since originally installing the EtherRegen so tried again after reading replies. Yes, it does work after reversing inputs, removing optical module, connecting optical renduSE to A side optical port. I’m disappointed since after following the development discussion of EtherRegen from beginning nothing was ever mentioned about compatibility with optical module although plenty of talk about 100Mbps and gigabit. And now I’m still confused about what else I can plug into a ports since previously it was mentioned not to plug anything else into A ports if used this way. Audio vs non audio? Not sure what this means. Please understand your customers range from electrical engineering experts to users like myself just trying to get the best sq I can from my audio system.

 

Hi: Sorry if this became confusing for you.  Let me see if I can make it clear.

The Sonore opticalModule is an excellent FMC (fiber media converter), probably the best on the planet. But its technology is a subset of the EtherREGEN's and so if using an EtherREGEN with a Sonore opticalRendu, the opticalModule is not needed. It is always desirable to have the EtherREGEN as the last device in the chain just before whatever is the computer/streamer/renderer endpoint--in your case the opticalRendu.

We went to the extra trouble and expense of making the EtherREGEN symmetrical specifically so that its optical SFP cage would be as good an "output" port as the 'B'-side copper port. But ideally, if going B>A for copper to optical, you would leave empty the other 'A' side (RJ45) ports. But that is not mandatory.

 

By the way, all of this is discussed in the EtherREGEN User Guide, in the same plain-speak as I always write--just as above. Please look to page 9.

 

Thanks,

--Alex C.