Spot the difference! China made vs.....

[STC]

[cjf]

The difference is unimportant because both look equally horrible and appear to be built to return the largest profit possible back to their makers  😀

[STC]

One was reviewed highly. 

[Ralf11]

so, China vs. Mal-Asia ??

[STC]

Yes, to some, China is West or East America. 

[sandyk]

The Malaysia version is taller and more substantial looking.  There is a very good chance that it would not only perform more reliably long term , but sound BETTER despite putting out the same 1s and 0s  originally.

[STC]

The owner wanted the unit to be replaced. Hopefully, he could hear better 1 and 0s. 

[mansr]

What's the story here? Is one of them a fake, or is it simply a case of the manufacturer having switched motor supplier at some point?

[gmgraves]

On 11/9/2019 at 5:04 AM, mansr said:

What's the story here? Is one of them a fake, or is it simply a case of the manufacturer having switched motor supplier at some point?

The latter is what it looks like to me...

[STC]

Different parts manufacture red in different country. NAD is a good example. The quality can vary quite a lot depending where it was made. 

[MetalNuts]

Judging the sound quality by the appearance of gear and/or component?  We all know that different DACs using the same chip have different sound quality, so I guess the appearance is not a critical factor though it will make some one lose confidence in the sound quality of the gear. 

[bobbmd]

@STC how about 'west of woodstock east of vietnam'//try only buying Schiit made in USA same for speakers handmade in Springfield Illinois

[STC]

8 hours ago, bobbmd said:

@STC how about 'west of woodstock east of vietnam'//try only buying Schiit made in USA same for speakers handmade in Springfield Illinois

I think most parts are made elsewhere and assembled in other country with the Made in logo. Even the logo too probably made elsewhere. An example that I know of was a speaker driver. Everything was made in another country except for the cone. 
 

 

[mansr]

9 hours ago, STC said:

I think most parts are made elsewhere and assembled in other country with the Made in logo. Even the logo too probably made elsewhere. An example that I know of was a speaker driver. Everything was made in another country except for the cone.

Almost all electronic components are made somewhere in east Asia. From a quality perspective (labour politics are another topic), it doesn't really matter where they were mounted on a PCB.

[John Dyson]

Historically, China has been very bad about parts substitution, e.g. replaced a specially selected 3.3uf electrolytic with a lower cost one.   Very very careful quality control is needed -- no assumptions can be made at all.  The risk has been especially high for those who are starting to use overseas production in China - the values/expectations are different.   Things might have changed in recent years, but I highly doubt it. 

[mansr]

17 minutes ago, John Dyson said:

Historically, China has been very bad about parts substitution, e.g. replaced a specially selected 3.3uf electrolytic with a lower cost one.   Very very careful quality control is needed -- no assumptions can be made at all.  The risk has been especially high for those who are starting to use overseas production in China - the values/expectations are different.   Things might have changed in recent years, but I highly doubt it. 

A product assembled in China isn't necessarily inferior to a product assembled from the same parts in the US or Europe. Sure, some disreputable assembly house might substitute parts, but that can happen anywhere in the world. You'd be a fool not to examine the first batch closely and do ongoing spot checks to catch any deviation from spec. Many Chinese companies are perfectly capable of doing just as good a job as anyone else.

[John Dyson]

8 minutes ago, mansr said:

A product assembled in China isn't necessarily inferior to a product assembled from the same parts in the US or Europe. Sure, some disreputable assembly house might substitute parts, but that can happen anywhere in the world. You'd be a fool not to examine the first batch closely and do ongoing spot checks to catch any deviation from spec. Many Chinese companies are perfectly capable of doing just as good a job as anyone else.

Well, we had troubles at AT&T consumer products (not a bunch of fools at all, and established relationships)...  Had to watch them like a hawk.  Things might have changed and act more like local suppliers.

John

[mansr]

6 minutes ago, John Dyson said:

Had to watch them like a hawk.

That I don't doubt. However, it's not a problem unique to China. Ever noticed the things building contractors will try to get away with when they think you're not watching?

[STC]

15 hours ago, mansr said:

Almost all electronic components are made somewhere in east Asia. From a quality perspective (labour politics are another topic), it doesn't really matter where they were mounted on a PCB.

All my iPhones from 5 to the latest made in China and so far not a single complaint. All working fine except for battery change. I guess made by China and QC by America what really matters. I have also test driven made in China but labeled as made in Malaysia Geely wearing Malaysia car logo. Really well made.

[John Dyson]

11 hours ago, STC said:

All my iPhones from 5 to the latest made in China and so far not a single complaint. All working fine except for battery change. I guess made by China and QC by America what really matters. I have also test driven made in China but labeled as made in Malaysia Geely wearing Malaysia car logo. Really well made.

Apple has much more control as a super high volume longstanding customer.   That is very different even for moderate volume customers.  When I write 'watch them like a hawk' -- I mean especially so.   Again, it might be better nowadays, but the best defense is a precise set of specifications for every component -- I mean, real production datasheets & requirements for each component.  No assumptions of reasonableness are a good idea.  Traditional checks and balances are very weak (like the wild west.)

 

Of course, quality control is necessary no matter what, but there IS something different in the business cuture -- strongly reminds of the initial discussions about the Ferungi on the old 'Star Trek 2nd Generation' series.

 

John

 

[STC]

9 hours ago, John Dyson said:

Apple has much more control as a super high volume longstanding customer.   That is very different even for moderate volume customers.  When I write 'watch them like a hawk' -- I mean especially so.   Again, it might be better nowadays, but the best defense is a precise set of specifications for every component -- I mean, real production datasheets & requirements for each component.  No assumptions of reasonableness are a good idea.  Traditional checks and balances are very weak (like the wild west.)

 

Of course, quality control is necessary no matter what, but there IS something different in the business cuture -- strongly reminds of the initial discussions about the Ferungi on the old 'Star Trek 2nd Generation' series.

 

John

 

We have forgotten the history so soon. Your criticism of China made goods sounds like echoes to me when the Japanese products started to flood my country in the late 60s and 70s. Western propaganda? Maybe but there were some truth in them. 
 

Firstly, Made in China product can be products made for others. They do not have issues like you already pointed due to strict QC. This product often do not carry Made in China labels. However, product of established brands do not shy away stating they were made in China. Unlike small scaled boutique high end equipments. The big companies need to comply with legal requirements to state where the products were made. 
 

Then we have China’s own Made in China products. These products are conceived and designed by the Chinese. They are often inferior because do not have the quality nor know how of a Western conceived product. 
 

However, thanks to the large investment of greedy capitalists from America and other developed countries, the technology was either copied or improved by the Chinese. They are now where Japan was in the 80s and 90s. 
 

As far as high end equipments are concerned, they just copied them. It started with poor imitations and now practice made them perfect. Except for the labels, every parts and design were the copies of the original itself. I still have one of the most revered ICs which were made in China for the western high end company. The only different was it got no engraving of the logo and name. 

Be it China or America, when there is no quality control and supervision, they all come out the same. Unreliable. At one time workers worked for pride and nation but now they work for money. The product quality reflects on that. 

[semente]

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