UpTone Audio EtherREGEN Listening Impressions

[Jud]

2 hours ago, Iving said:

Going back to listen after 24 hours cooking overnight, the first thing I noticed was a silkiness - then astonishing detail.

 

Something was not quite right - and I found that I had to re-"trial-and-error" my shunts to balance the sound again. What I am saying (in line with recent posts) is that the EtherREGEN seems to change the audiophile rulebook somewhat. I wouldn't have expected to have had to change shunts in my system accompanying inclusion of the ER.

 

Another unexpected finding: I think, but am not sure yet, that whereas, prior to ER, inclusion of a Cisco switch between my PC and RedNet D16 AES improved SQ, and I assumed that it would remain - as in PC > Cisco > ER > D16 AES > DAC, today I think I prefer SQ without the Cisco. The ER seems encumbered by it. It's as if the ER is unleashed when the Cisco is removed: PC > ER > D16 AES > DAC.

 

Confounded with trying out such permutations is cable use. I can't reconfigure my shielded AQs willy nilly. I am no longer convinced (as I assumed I would be) that these are better than "cheapos" and need to do more listening to be sure. Another rulebook question mark.

 

Another "anomaly" - I need less (pre-amp) volume to listen with satisfaction - but the system will sound correct at much higher (pre-amp) volumes than before.

 

I can imagine that "upstream factors matter less and downstream more" - and that our spending decisions will be affected accordingly. Another rulebook vagary. (omg did I find myself thinking about "hearing" my power amps)

 

I am listening to PC > ER > D16 AES > DAC now and the SQ is phenomenal. Deep, open, clean, detailed. I was impressed immediately as I posted yesterday. Today better. When I have finished trying things out, and the ER is more or less fully roasted, I'm sure I shall be very happy and just want to listen to music a great deal more.

 

This is one hell of an audiophile bang-for-buck. Am I the first to be brave enough to suggest that the EtherREGEN is significantly under-priced? (Easy for me to say being a first batch beneficiary 🙂)

 

I agree right down the line with everything you've said here.

[Darryl R]

39 minutes ago, Crom said:

@Darryl R have you tried leaving the cat card in place and adding the ER between your bridge and dac? I’d be interested to hear results and if improving the Ethernet signal using the jCat made any difference/improvement at all. 

 

That was a combination that was on my mind to try, but I haven't yet.  I supposed I rationalized the difference would be so small, that of going into an 'A' port with only two other 'A' inputs (my LAN, and my NAS in the SFP cage) versus none at all, and the ER spec stating 'A' side isolation is likely better than any other switch on the market.  I also liked the idea of removing the bridge so as not to have two layer 2 "devices" in such close proximity, for what that's worth.

 

EDIT:  And now that I think of it, I'd need to keep my old switch as well.  Further, JS responded to some questions of mine, one of which I posted above, and he pointed out some misconceptions I had.  Namely, that leakage and clock phase noise are the issues, and ER is cleaning those up just before the renderer.  So in my setup, ER was an ideal choice.

[Sonic77]

What a blast last night was, listening to the EtherRegen in my system for the first time, it was fantastic.  I was using the UltraRendu with the inakustic usb cable, my dac was the Chord Blu mkII/Dave combo, and I was using, I believe a cat 7 flat ethernet cable, nothing fancy. The sound was glourious as everyone is describing, deeper sound stage, separation of voices and instruments, inner details galore. I’m looking forward to more break in as these impressions are the EtherRegen right out of the box.

I am going to hook up the OpticalRendu later today and see how that sounds, see if it is any different from the UltraRendu. I also have a Mutec MC3+USB that I want to experiment with and see what changes that brings.

Anyway, I am really happy and wanted to give my first impressions of the EtherRegen that is still not broken in yet.

Finally, I want to say that those Banjos sound amazing 😊 Yee-Haw!

[Darryl R]

Some initial posts on the WBF corroborate ours.  From user dminches:

 

I wanted to wait at least 2 days and after 4-5 listening sessions to post my initial feedback.

The biggest difference I am noticing is a big drop in the noise floor. Whatever was there before is no longer masking some of the finer details in the music. While one can play the music lower because of this, I am finding that I want to play the music louder because it is that more pleasing and there is zero fatigue.

It goes without saying that the “bang for the buck” with the EtherREGEN is extremely high.

Anyone who is running Ethernet into either a DAC, server or end point could benefit by inserting one of these.

[Iving]

5 hours ago, Iving said:

Going back to listen after 24 hours cooking overnight, the first thing I noticed was a silkiness - then astonishing detail.

 

Something was not quite right - and I found that I had to re-"trial-and-error" my shunts to balance the sound again. What I am saying (in line with recent posts) is that the EtherREGEN seems to change the audiophile rulebook somewhat. I wouldn't have expected to have had to change shunts in my system accompanying inclusion of the ER.

 

Another unexpected finding: I think, but am not sure yet, that whereas, prior to ER, inclusion of a Cisco switch between my PC and RedNet D16 AES improved SQ, and I assumed that it would remain - as in PC > Cisco > ER > D16 AES > DAC, today I think I prefer SQ without the Cisco. The ER seems encumbered by it. It's as if the ER is unleashed when the Cisco is removed: PC > ER > D16 AES > DAC.

 

Confounded with trying out such permutations is cable use. I can't reconfigure my shielded AQs willy nilly. I am no longer convinced (as I assumed I would be) that these are better than "cheapos" and need to do more listening to be sure. Another rulebook question mark.

 

Another "anomaly" - I need less (pre-amp) volume to listen with satisfaction - but the system will sound correct at much higher (pre-amp) volumes than before.

 

I can imagine that "upstream factors matter less and downstream more" - and that our spending decisions will be affected accordingly. Another rulebook vagary. (omg did I find myself thinking about "hearing" my power amps)

 

I am listening to PC > ER > D16 AES > DAC now and the SQ is phenomenal. Deep, open, clean, detailed. I was impressed immediately as I posted yesterday. Today better. When I have finished trying things out, and the ER is more or less fully roasted, I'm sure I shall be very happy and just want to listen to music a great deal more.

 

This is one hell of an audiophile bang-for-buck. Am I the first to be brave enough to suggest that the EtherREGEN is significantly under-priced? (Easy for me to say being a first batch beneficiary 🙂)

 

... quoting my own post earlier this evening since fwiw a qualifying and potentially helpful update ...

 

The EtherREGEN is a funny device.

 

The "upstream matters less downstream matters more" principle *is especially applicable to ethernet cables*!

 

Earlier, I was playing with a permutation of Cisco switch Y/N and my shielded AQs vs. cheapos. Three ethernet cables needed all told.

 

All the effects I experienced then - and the one I am reporting now - are explained by a single main factor. That is mainly why I post again.

 

It is the ethernet cable *after* the EtherREGEN that matters.

 

I found a "hang up my tweaking boots" sweet spot with the Cisco engaged and also my shielded AQs *provided I did not use a shielded AQ after the EtherREGEN*. Instead I used this: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/50cmUltra-Flat-CAT-7-10-Gigabit-Ethernet-Cable-Modem-Router-RJ45-For-LAN-Network/252342837198 (which I bought on a whim 18 months ago - and you may notice it has metal plugs but that doesn't seem to matter). The difference was seismic. Before shut in. After - now I have everything.

 

Detail. Open. Deep. I say again Deep! Not just soundstage - but solid, massive, thud and slam. Clarity across the frequency range and my favourite instruments are naked in all their glory - like Wayne Gray's telecaster (must be, surely - or an early derivative - but not a Broadcaster - was it a slabcaster or something) on Buck Trail's "Knocked Out Joint On Mars". Most of all - above everything - what makes it a sweet spot - no digital edge. I'm not going to say like vinyl. But I will say I could listen to this system forever and just enjoy the mojo.

 

(I noticed that ER volume ceiling effect more with the second cable too - can't figure that out in under a minute.)

 

I haven't had a drink ...

 

... but I do need a lie down.

[Superdad]

10 minutes ago, Nenon said:

Or are you avoiding that, just because some people keep saying that all "audiophile" ethernet cables with metal connectors are garbage and should not be used? 

 

I hope nobody is saying that.

 

One thing I do want to point out is what I wrote for the last paragraph of page 7 (the "Regarding Ethernet cables page") of the User Guide:

 

The ‘B’ side of the EtherREGEN is neither susceptible, nor can it become part of, ANY leakage loops. The ‘B’ side circuitry and port exist on their own entirely isolated power and ground domain. [Only the External clock BNC ground is common to the ‘B’-side ground-plane.] So if you have a fancy metal-shell shield-tied Ethernet cable, go ahead and use it on the ‘B’ side port for connection your DAC-attached streamer/renderer endpoint. This is the connection that matters most when using an EtherREGEN anyway: If you are going to hear a difference with an Ethernet cable, it will more likely be with the ‘B’-side cable. This is also a good one to keep short.

[Iving]

AQ advised me they tie their ethernet cables at the destination end only. They didn't qualify wrt range.

 

Mine are Cinnamons. I added a great deal of extra shielding but did not alter the manuf. terminals. May I refer my recent posts.

 

What I have just posted is that the cheapo I linked cured my system *post-ER* contrast my shielded AQ Cinnamon.

 

The cheapo I linked is STP and may be tied both ends / metal plugs! 

 

I guess it's trial and error for all of us. Effects are system dependent. But I am excited because the post-ER cable swap made such a difference - that is the point. If my cheapo is good in other systems that would be even more interesting.

 

I hope you get your ER soon and your music is enhanced. It's a truly great audiophile product.

[Iving]

4 minutes ago, Superdad said:

 

I hope nobody is saying that.

 

One thing I do want to point out is what I wrote for the last paragraph of page 7 (the "Regarding Ethernet cables page") of the User Guide:

 

The ‘B’ side of the EtherREGEN is neither susceptible, nor can it become part of, ANY leakage loops. The ‘B’ side circuitry and port exist on their own entirely isolated power and ground domain. [Only the External clock BNC ground is common to the ‘B’-side ground-plane.] So if you have a fancy metal-shell shield-tied Ethernet cable, go ahead and use it on the ‘B’ side port for connection your DAC-attached streamer/renderer endpoint. This is the connection that matters most when using an EtherREGEN anyway: If you are going to hear a difference with an Ethernet cable, it will more likely be with the ‘B’-side cable. This is also a good one to keep short.

Brilliant

Consistent

[rhombus]

My EtherREGEN has been in my system for about 100 hours now and has settled in nicely. I am experiencing the same soundstage improvements and better microdetail retrieval that many others have already described. Looks like John and Alex have really hit it out of the park with this one, congratulations guys!

 

I have a little bit of a special use case with my system so I thought I would pass along my findings with the EtherREGEN. I have a 2-channel active system and I am using an exaSound e38 / PlayPoint combination (both LPS-1.2 powered ) for my DAC and network bridge. The e38 DAC sounds best to me when playing DSD256. I am finding that I can play 8 channel DSD256 to the exaSound through the EtherREGEN using Roon without any stuttering. With HQPlayer the best I can manage is 8 channels at DSD64, but DSD64 with the EtherREGEN still sounds MUCH better than DSD256 without.

All of the usual disclaimers apply. I have set up my network to minimize network traffic to the PlayPoint and I only know enough about computer networks to be dangerous to myself and others, so I can’t help you with your setup. Looking at the switch ahead of the EtherREGEN it looks like Roon is sending about 94-98 Mbps to my PlayPoint so it is very close to stuttering and any additional network traffic would cause problems. The takeaway is that it is possible to play multichannel DSD256 through the EtherREGEN using Roon because at least one crazy audiofool is doing it and he is very happy with the results! 

 

And, as always, YMMV.
 

[simon_pepper]

So my EtherGEGEN was waiting for my at the DHL Service Delivery point, following my return from a business trip to Mozambique. Collected, straight from the airport at 7.30am, as they opened!

 

Given my system had been off for the week, and it has been cold in Dublin, in addition to warming the house up, I also allowed the system to warm up after being powered back up.

 

So, inserted earlier this evening - replacing a Cisco Cisco SG100D-05 5-port unmanaged switch in my ‘front-end’ network segment. The ‘backend’ with the NAS units, Wireless AP, Firewall, Fibre Modem and Roon ROCK core using Netgear Prosafe GS108 & Prosafe GS105, both managed switches - where I have QoS port priorities set on those used for the streaming based data paths.

 

So I am using the EtherRegen in this configuration

 

 

The SonoreUPnP Bridge runs on an UltraRendu powered by an UltraCap LPS1

The Bridge is fed by a connection from the Roon Core - both of these are connected to the A-side.

On the B-side is the connection to a Naim NDS network player with the 555DR power supply, or combo Streamer/DAC (Ethernet in, analogue out) as the UPnP Endpoint.

Analogue out to the SimAudio Moon amp is True Signals Ultimate DIN-RCA cable.

 

The B-port is connected to the NDS with Chord Sarum Streaming cable.

The UltraRendu is connected to thr B-ports with Chord Anthem streaming cable.

 

I also have a RPi running Asset R6.4 connected via AQ Vodka to A-ports, as backup playback path with the Naim App.

Plus AQ Vodka is used between the A-ports and the upstream connection to the ‘backend’ NAS for the music library  & Roon Core which is upstairs.

 

The EtherRegen is power by a LPS, which was existing for the Netgear GS105 and then CISCO SG  switches before it. So I haven’t needed to use the provided Meanwell supply.

 

The EtherRegen has brought further details to the sound, both in bass detail and transient reproduction, but also a lower noise floor of the track being played. A cleaner window to what is being played.

Just going through a selection of known tracks now.

And I understand from others is give 72-hours for burn-in.

 

Bring it on - this unit represents a substantial upgrade element in a streaming system.

[MarkS]

Can’t believe I need to wait over two months for one of these 😒

 

glad early adopters are being rewarded and please keep these informative posts coming. At least us jealous 2nd and 3rd wavers can benefit by your experiences. 

[EVOLVIST]

Okay, so after 100+ hours of "burn in," I got to spend all afternoon with the ER in and out of my system. I invited my wife to come and hear the difference. I invited my audiophile buddy to come over and hear the difference.

 

Everyone's jaws dropped...when I told them I had paid $640 for something that nobody could detect a difference in SQ with.

 

I mean, that's just the way it goes sometimes. I guess it can be chalked up to system dependency - as a lot of things are in this goofy hobby - but at least now I have further confirmation that there is little wrong with my system, especially with my room treatment, DAC/streamer and speakers; it's sounds just as natural and musical as it did before I got the EtherREGEN on Tuesday. (I may shop for other amp alternatives soon.)

 

But hey, I have a feeling that the EtherREGEN is going to make a lot of people happy. I mean, people are already happy...and that's what matters. That means a lot.  I'm happy. Are you happy? 😃

[jean-michel6]

I received my Etherregen Friday evening ( thank's) and it has been "cooking" on my home pc network for 24 hours . 

It was working fine and got not very warm .

 

Last night I did put it on my headphone system ( focal utopia , and top notch audio technica amp ) .

 

MY audio source is a heavy modified dual pc running on daphile 

Server( super micro x10sba)>Customised optical bridge>Player( super micro x10sba)>SOTM PCIE USB >SOTM TX USB >USB Lush>SOTM HD USB to SPDIF > DAC ( audiomat maestro 3)

clocks for pc player and sotm accessories are coming from an sotm clock board .

 

Power for PC's is done through the top Sean Jacobs level 3 power supply . SOTM accessories are all fed through UpTone lps 1.2 psu which are themselves powered by SOTM sps 500 psu .

 

Optical bridge is quite special as the fmc that I use have been modified by sotm to change the power regulator to very quiet one and the clock quartz have been removed to have the clock signal provided by a sotm clock board .

PC server ethernet> TPlinkFMC>Fiber>Optical switch>Fiber>TPlinkFMC>PC ethernet player

PSU for optical bridge is very quiet psu with LT3045 regulators

 

Recently I did compare my optical bridge to an aqvox SE loaned by a friend . The result is that the aqvox SE was a little bit better than my optical bridge mostly for bass and treeble . 

Of course the advantage is that the aqvox is much simpler than my optical bridge even if sq is slightly better

 

Now to the etherregen . It was connected to the 2 pc's through 30cm regular Cat5e utp and using the supplied psu . Of course A side for server pc and B side for PC player .

One additional ethernet cable was connected on A side to provide link to home network for control point .

 

Again the SQ was a little bit better than my optical bridge , the most significant improvement seems to be a quieter background noise.

I did listen a few pieces of music and the etherregen got fairly warm .

To be honest I was expecting a bigger step in sq , since I was a little bit disappointed I experiment a little. 

 

I thought that may be some noise was coming from the cable connected to my home network even though that by design the B side should be fairly immune to noise coming from A side .

What i did then is to select music and launch play and then disconnect the ethernet cable coming from my home network .

The result   a quite nice sq bump : quieter background , more natural voices , more details .... and then a smile on my face .

 

Conclusions from these preliminary tests , the etherregen is a real nice tool to improve the sq of our systems .

However careful set up to minimise noise is required ... the dream that what happened on A side has little impact on B side is still a dream . Eventhough extreme care has been done in designing this little gem , attention needs to be done to be sure that what's goes into A side is void of noise ! Probably using optical isolation for the control point input .

 

On interesting feedback is the one give by @_JL_ a few posts ago as he experiment with the optical input on A side and it is where he got the best results .

 

Next step for me will be to listen on my speaker system and then to experiment with the optical input on A side and next to experiment with PSU . 

 

[hols]

                                                My struggle with EtherRegen first 72 hours

Some background on my system. I have been a 'loyal' Uptone supporter all along and I still am. I have in my possession one JS2, two LPS1.2, LPS1.0 and isoRegen and now two ER. Before using the ER in my system I have been using a SOtM switch (highest spec) and fed by Cybershaft OP20 as 10M reference and using Habst cryo'ed silver clock cable. I have been using the SOtM switch between my Doppio server (designed by my buddy) HQplayer embedded and the NAA and connected via USB to Denafrips Terminator. There is no problem with connection all along. We have tried to stack 2 SOtM switches connected by single mode optical and sounded excellent compared with only one. And we have been looking forward to the EtherRegen and see whether it can achieve that kind of improvement.

 

I first used the Uptone SMPS and internal clock to replace my SOtM and I would say there is a very significant drop in wattage of the resulting SQ. There is shrinkage in soundstage, loss of detail and sound is dull. This is not unexpected because this is the first 15 minutes of connection and one cannot make any conclusion from that. I then powered off the ER and connected the 10M clock input pushed the button to external clock and then powered up again. And I immediately encountered stuttering which lasted for 10 minutes without improvement. I have to power off and then power up again and this time after stuttering for a few minutes it runs normally without dropout. The sound improves a lot compared to without 10M clock but to my ears the sound is not on par with the SOtM. My estimate is only about 50% to 70% of that of the SOtM. This is again not unexpected with a not yet boiled gear. I then changed the power supply to LPS1.2 and I would say there is not much of improvement with using the LPS1.2 and there was again some dropouts in the beginning. I then changed to JS2 giving it a 12V power supply. The sound appears a bit more solid but there is a slightly heavy mid range with JS2. That is about 1.5 hours after using the ER. My friend came over to join me at that juncture and I was playing a DGG Fournier & Gulda Beethoven Cello sonata. One thing that caught us both is that the piano comes off with excellent shape as if the Grand piano just stands up and you can hear all the delicate touch by Gulda. But at the same time the cello becomes shrunken. I guess this is due to a more quiet background and better delineation of the highs and SuperHighs  compared with lows that contributes to this spatial delineation of the grand piano. This is a very different presentation compared with SOtM which gives a much richer timbre especially in the range of Cello. We then decided to try to stack the ER behind the SOtM and see whether we can get the best of both worlds(I have studied the manual a few times and know that the B side of the ER should always be closest to the DAC to prevent leakage currents from interfering). 

 

I connected through single mode fibre SFPs and when powered up we face stuttering again and this time it persisted for 10 minutes or so so I have to change it to RJ45 ports with ethernet cable. There is some scattered dropouts and it goes on normally afterwards. As for the sound there is a combination of the 2 characters, the balance between Cello and piano is more natural now. The piano is still excellent but there is a less holographic presentation compared with before. But I would say that the SQ still lacks behind that of 2 stacked SOtM switches. The ER is left powered on till next day

 

When I played music through the next day there is not much of improvement compared with before which is again not unexpected because the boiling process need to continue a bit longer.  But I encountered some stuttering again when I changed to other files. And I found out from this forum that I am not alone and John is trying his best to deal with it. At that time one of my buddies just communicated that he has no problem on the first day but on second day there is stuttering and then cannot even connect. Hope that John can find out solutions to that.

After stabilizing a bit the music seems to be stable and I tried to experiment with my second ER. This time I tried to put it between my Asus 88 router and my Synology NAS using RJ45 ports and ethernet cable. There is stuttering again and this time the stuttering continues. But amidst the dropouts I can hear that there is an improvement in SQ. But I have to give up because after a while there is interrupted connection.

 

Onto the third day today and I've got the biggest surprise which I didn't expect. The system is still on the SOtM +ER stack (without NAS ER)there is some improvement in the sound the orchestra sound more coherent with good layout and yet hearing more details. No stuttering. And I continue to explore by adding a ER between my NAS and router and voila suddenly the orchestra opens up and the widest and deepest soundstage I have ever achieved. And more important is that I can hear the details and ambiance and the air around the instruments are the best ever. The double bass are just rock solid in their place way back in the soundstage and yet giving out a detailed and musical sound echoing the other instruments of the orchestra. The layout is very natural and not the artificial pinpoint focus. One can just feel the rapport  amongst the various instruments of the orchestra. As my friend commented it's like being the conductor of the orchestra. And fortunately there is no more dropouts today. And it seems that adding this second ER gives the best reward and is well worth its price. Now the SQ has surpassed the 2 stacked SOtM switches.  Bravo Alex.

 

So to conclude my first 72 hours impression with ER 

(1) Direct comparison with SOtM the ER may not have advantage and will need further boiling before any definitive conclusion

(2) The sound character of ER is different from SOtM

(3) The stacked SOtM with ER can give additive effect

(4) Second ER between NAS and router can give big boost in SQ

(5) The power supply to the ER needs further testing

 

And in my system using two ER becomes a must.

 

Having said that I am still confused about the cause of the dropouts and I shall raise the questions over in the installation thread.

Thanks again for your great product Alex and John.

 

[EVOLVIST]

 

On 11/14/2019 at 3:04 PM, Dutch said:

@EVOLVIST, I understand!  But if you’d like to convince yourself or me/us a simple experiment could do that; just remove the etherregen for a while and go back to your previous setup and settings.

 

On 11/14/2019 at 3:46 PM, EVOLVIST said:

 

I may, when the ER finishes its burn in. After all, I would remiss if I didn't do a before and after comparison in my system. 

 

6 minutes ago, Superdad said:

 

Hi: 

I guess I’m a little confused about how went from the above on Thursday to the below tonight. 

 

Glad to hear you say you are happy. But if the EtherREGEN does not make your socks go up and down (as my wife likes to say), please allow us to refund your purchase. This is why we sell our products with a 30-day satisfaction guarantee. 

Thanks,

—Alex C.

 

I think the key part is the above quoted exchange between me and Dutch. Trying the ER in and out of the chain was imperative to get a full grasp of what the EtherREGEN was, or was not, doing. We often hear our own systems at first, yet slightly skewed by expectations, when really we are simply praising the merits of what we've already established.

 

I'm not saying that's the case with the EtherREGEN, but I am saying, what I perceived as the EtherREGEN settling in, curiously corresponded with me setting the headroom in Roon to -3DB. 

 

I really don't think it goes any deeper than that. What matters is that everyone is happy. I wouldn't dare comments on any other person's system or the thought process that goes into their listening. I can barely keep up with my own processes. 

[Superdad]

44 minutes ago, hols said:

I have been a 'loyal' Uptone supporter all along and I still am. I have in my possession one JS2, two LPS1.2, LPS1.0 and isoRegen and now two ER.

 

Hi Hols: Thanks for your report. Just to be clear for others, Hols must have gotten his two EtherREGENs from one of our dealers as I promise we did not ship two units to any single direct buyer in the first batch. 

 

44 minutes ago, hols said:

I then powered off the ER and connected the 10M clock input pushed the button to external clock and then powered up again. And I immediately encountered stuttering which lasted for 10 minutes without improvement. I have to power off and then power up again and this time after stuttering for a few minutes it runs normally without dropout.

Certainly any stuttering is not related to use of external reference clock as we have others using this feature with no issue (and of course we tested ourselves).

 

44 minutes ago, hols said:

The sound improves a lot compared to without 10M clock but to my ears the sound is not on par with the SOtM.

 

When using an external clock it is important to consider the power supply for the clock and where its 0-volt/-VE ("ground") is going and what it may be common to.  That is because the BNC "ground" of the EtherREGEN's clock input is on the 'B' side of the moat.  So depending on what else the clock power supply may be connected to--as well as what upstream gear other 10MHz outputs of that clock may be connected to--one can end up defeating the EtherREGEN's active differential isolation moat and losing some of its benefits.

 

44 minutes ago, hols said:

I connected through single mode fibre SFPs and when powered up we face stuttering again and this time it persisted for 10 minutes or so so I have to change it to RJ45 ports with ethernet cable. There is some scattered dropouts and it goes on normally afterwards.

 

Really any dropouts are not related to connectivity of the EtherREGEN. Such is generally a software and throughput issue.  I myself experienced such with HQ Player Embedded feeding Roon when files were elsewhere on network, but that was only until I set my server to Gigabit. You mention using HQP Embedded as well, but I am not familiar with Doppio that you mention. Is that some type of player s/w?  You may be able to experiment with some buffer settings.

 

44 minutes ago, hols said:

At that time one of my buddies just communicated that he has no problem on the first day but on second day there is stuttering and then cannot even connect. Hope that John can find out solutions to that.

 

No the issue we are working on has only to do with connectivity and dropping of IP leases. John may have found the root cause, but it will take a couple of days until he can fully investigate.  Based on what he told me tonight about what he found, I suppose there is a minor chance that the stuttering you got could be a side effect of the actual problem. I guess if IP connection was bouncing on and off or if there was some crazy excess negotiation traffic going on--such could cause some data delay issues.  I am just speculating.

 

44 minutes ago, hols said:

After stabilizing a bit the music seems to be stable and I tried to experiment with my second ER. This time I tried to put it between my Asus 88 router and my Synology NAS using RJ45 ports and ethernet cable. There is stuttering again and this time the stuttering continues. But amidst the dropouts I can hear that there is an improvement in SQ. But I have to give up because after a while there is interrupted connection.

 

I'd like to see a diagram of your network and what with the second EtherREGEN you were feeding from its 100Mbps 'B' side.

 

44 minutes ago, hols said:

Onto the third day today and I've got the biggest surprise which I didn't expect. The system is still on the SOtM +ER stack (without NAS ER) there is some improvement in the sound the orchestra sound more coherent with good layout and yet hearing more details. No stuttering. And I continue to explore by adding a ER between my NAS and router and voila suddenly the orchestra opens up and the widest and deepest soundstage I have ever achieved. And more important is that I can hear the details and ambiance and the air around the instruments are the best ever.

 

Well that's great! 

 

44 minutes ago, hols said:

The double bass are just rock solid in their place way back in the soundstage and yet giving out a detailed and musical sound echoing the other instruments of the orchestra. The layout is very natural and not the artificial pinpoint focus. One can just feel the rapport  amongst the various instruments of the orchestra. As my friend commented it's like being the conductor of the orchestra. And fortunately there is no more dropouts today. And it seems that adding this second ER gives the best reward and is well worth its price. Now the SQ has surpassed the 2 stacked SOtM switches.

 

That is quite the turnaround from where you started. Wonderful! 

 

[Avalfa]

Just reading thrue the last pages here.

I can't really think of any reason why someone can't hear a severe improvement with the ER (or at least change) except if something in the chain is masking the effect/benefits of the ER.

 

When I installed mine last week, I kept my basic D-link switch in the audio rack at first, to make it easy to switch back, because I assumed that was necessary to be hearing differences.

The opposite was there. I listened to the DLink for 15-30 mins (while ER could warm up a bit).

At the moment I changed it, with ER it was so very obvious the change was enormous, far beyond anything I expected. The very first seconds music played I could hear it, not a doubt.

Which ended up, that late that night I took away the DLink, it's never going back there.

 

My system is not very complicated with all kinds of "boxes connected to one and another" perhaps that helps. I just do local file Playback streaming.

(Desktop pc somewhere in the house with minimserver as a) Nas--> a few patch points/wallsockets -->ER --> Audionet DNP--> Audionet amp1V2--> isophon vertigo.

Proper power conditioner,power cables and interconnects. (I have got plans to get a Melco as a NAS and upgrade the networking cables).

 

[nonesup]

1 hour ago, hols said:

                                                My struggle with EtherRegen first 72 hours

Some background on my system. I have been a 'loyal' Uptone supporter all along and I still am. I have in my possession one JS2, two LPS1.2, LPS1.0 and isoRegen and now two ER. Before using the ER in my system I have been using a SOtM switch (highest spec) and fed by Cybershaft OP20 as 10M reference and using Habst cryo'ed silver clock cable. I have been using the SOtM switch between my Doppio server (designed by my buddy) HQplayer embedded and the NAA and connected via USB to Denafrips Terminator. There is no problem with connection all along. We have tried to stack 2 SOtM switches connected by single mode optical and sounded excellent compared with only one. And we have been looking forward to the EtherRegen and see whether it can achieve that kind of improvement.

 

I first used the Uptone SMPS and internal clock to replace my SOtM and I would say there is a very significant drop in wattage of the resulting SQ. There is shrinkage in soundstage, loss of detail and sound is dull. This is not unexpected because this is the first 15 minutes of connection and one cannot make any conclusion from that. I then powered off the ER and connected the 10M clock input pushed the button to external clock and then powered up again. And I immediately encountered stuttering which lasted for 10 minutes without improvement. I have to power off and then power up again and this time after stuttering for a few minutes it runs normally without dropout. The sound improves a lot compared to without 10M clock but to my ears the sound is not on par with the SOtM. My estimate is only about 50% to 70% of that of the SOtM. This is again not unexpected with a not yet boiled gear. I then changed the power supply to LPS1.2 and I would say there is not much of improvement with using the LPS1.2 and there was again some dropouts in the beginning. I then changed to JS2 giving it a 12V power supply. The sound appears a bit more solid but there is a slightly heavy mid range with JS2. That is about 1.5 hours after using the ER. My friend came over to join me at that juncture and I was playing a DGG Fournier & Gulda Beethoven Cello sonata. One thing that caught us both is that the piano comes off with excellent shape as if the Grand piano just stands up and you can hear all the delicate touch by Gulda. But at the same time the cello becomes shrunken. I guess this is due to a more quiet background and better delineation of the highs and SuperHighs  compared with lows that contributes to this spatial delineation of the grand piano. This is a very different presentation compared with SOtM which gives a much richer timbre especially in the range of Cello. We then decided to try to stack the ER behind the SOtM and see whether we can get the best of both worlds(I have studied the manual a few times and know that the B side of the ER should always be closest to the DAC to prevent leakage currents from interfering). 

 

I connected through single mode fibre SFPs and when powered up we face stuttering again and this time it persisted for 10 minutes or so so I have to change it to RJ45 ports with ethernet cable. There is some scattered dropouts and it goes on normally afterwards. As for the sound there is a combination of the 2 characters, the balance between Cello and piano is more natural now. The piano is still excellent but there is a less holographic presentation compared with before. But I would say that the SQ still lacks behind that of 2 stacked SOtM switches. The ER is left powered on till next day

 

When I played music through the next day there is not much of improvement compared with before which is again not unexpected because the boiling process need to continue a bit longer.  But I encountered some stuttering again when I changed to other files. And I found out from this forum that I am not alone and John is trying his best to deal with it. At that time one of my buddies just communicated that he has no problem on the first day but on second day there is stuttering and then cannot even connect. Hope that John can find out solutions to that.

After stabilizing a bit the music seems to be stable and I tried to experiment with my second ER. This time I tried to put it between my Asus 88 router and my Synology NAS using RJ45 ports and ethernet cable. There is stuttering again and this time the stuttering continues. But amidst the dropouts I can hear that there is an improvement in SQ. But I have to give up because after a while there is interrupted connection.

 

Onto the third day today and I've got the biggest surprise which I didn't expect. The system is still on the SOtM +ER stack (without NAS ER)there is some improvement in the sound the orchestra sound more coherent with good layout and yet hearing more details. No stuttering. And I continue to explore by adding a ER between my NAS and router and voila suddenly the orchestra opens up and the widest and deepest soundstage I have ever achieved. And more important is that I can hear the details and ambiance and the air around the instruments are the best ever. The double bass are just rock solid in their place way back in the soundstage and yet giving out a detailed and musical sound echoing the other instruments of the orchestra. The layout is very natural and not the artificial pinpoint focus. One can just feel the rapport  amongst the various instruments of the orchestra. As my friend commented it's like being the conductor of the orchestra. And fortunately there is no more dropouts today. And it seems that adding this second ER gives the best reward and is well worth its price. Now the SQ has surpassed the 2 stacked SOtM switches.  Bravo Alex.

 

So to conclude my first 72 hours impression with ER 

(1) Direct comparison with SOtM the ER may not have advantage and will need further boiling before any definitive conclusion

(2) The sound character of ER is different from SOtM

(3) The stacked SOtM with ER can give additive effect

(4) Second ER between NAS and router can give big boost in SQ

(5) The power supply to the ER needs further testing

 

And in my system using two ER becomes a must.

 

Having said that I am still confused about the cause of the dropouts and I shall raise the questions over in the installation thread.

Thanks again for your great product Alex and John.

 

Thank you for such a complete report.
So since I have difficulties with English, it is not clear to me how is the configuration of two ERs that finally got a great sound.  I want to understand that they are not bound by fiber, but in another way.  Could you explain it?

[hieukm]

1 hour ago, hols said:

                                                My struggle with EtherRegen first 72 hours

Some background on my system. I have been a 'loyal' Uptone supporter all along and I still am. I have in my possession one JS2, two LPS1.2, LPS1.0 and isoRegen and now two ER. Before using the ER in my system I have been using a SOtM switch (highest spec) and fed by Cybershaft OP20 as 10M reference and using Habst cryo'ed silver clock cable. I have been using the SOtM switch between my Doppio server (designed by my buddy) HQplayer embedded and the NAA and connected via USB to Denafrips Terminator. There is no problem with connection all along. We have tried to stack 2 SOtM switches connected by single mode optical and sounded excellent compared with only one. And we have been looking forward to the EtherRegen and see whether it can achieve that kind of improvement.

 

I first used the Uptone SMPS and internal clock to replace my SOtM and I would say there is a very significant drop in wattage of the resulting SQ. There is shrinkage in soundstage, loss of detail and sound is dull. This is not unexpected because this is the first 15 minutes of connection and one cannot make any conclusion from that. I then powered off the ER and connected the 10M clock input pushed the button to external clock and then powered up again. And I immediately encountered stuttering which lasted for 10 minutes without improvement. I have to power off and then power up again and this time after stuttering for a few minutes it runs normally without dropout. The sound improves a lot compared to without 10M clock but to my ears the sound is not on par with the SOtM. My estimate is only about 50% to 70% of that of the SOtM. This is again not unexpected with a not yet boiled gear. I then changed the power supply to LPS1.2 and I would say there is not much of improvement with using the LPS1.2 and there was again some dropouts in the beginning. I then changed to JS2 giving it a 12V power supply. The sound appears a bit more solid but there is a slightly heavy mid range with JS2. That is about 1.5 hours after using the ER. My friend came over to join me at that juncture and I was playing a DGG Fournier & Gulda Beethoven Cello sonata. One thing that caught us both is that the piano comes off with excellent shape as if the Grand piano just stands up and you can hear all the delicate touch by Gulda. But at the same time the cello becomes shrunken. I guess this is due to a more quiet background and better delineation of the highs and SuperHighs  compared with lows that contributes to this spatial delineation of the grand piano. This is a very different presentation compared with SOtM which gives a much richer timbre especially in the range of Cello. We then decided to try to stack the ER behind the SOtM and see whether we can get the best of both worlds(I have studied the manual a few times and know that the B side of the ER should always be closest to the DAC to prevent leakage currents from interfering). 

 

I connected through single mode fibre SFPs and when powered up we face stuttering again and this time it persisted for 10 minutes or so so I have to change it to RJ45 ports with ethernet cable. There is some scattered dropouts and it goes on normally afterwards. As for the sound there is a combination of the 2 characters, the balance between Cello and piano is more natural now. The piano is still excellent but there is a less holographic presentation compared with before. But I would say that the SQ still lacks behind that of 2 stacked SOtM switches. The ER is left powered on till next day

 

When I played music through the next day there is not much of improvement compared with before which is again not unexpected because the boiling process need to continue a bit longer.  But I encountered some stuttering again when I changed to other files. And I found out from this forum that I am not alone and John is trying his best to deal with it. At that time one of my buddies just communicated that he has no problem on the first day but on second day there is stuttering and then cannot even connect. Hope that John can find out solutions to that.

After stabilizing a bit the music seems to be stable and I tried to experiment with my second ER. This time I tried to put it between my Asus 88 router and my Synology NAS using RJ45 ports and ethernet cable. There is stuttering again and this time the stuttering continues. But amidst the dropouts I can hear that there is an improvement in SQ. But I have to give up because after a while there is interrupted connection.

 

Onto the third day today and I've got the biggest surprise which I didn't expect. The system is still on the SOtM +ER stack (without NAS ER)there is some improvement in the sound the orchestra sound more coherent with good layout and yet hearing more details. No stuttering. And I continue to explore by adding a ER between my NAS and router and voila suddenly the orchestra opens up and the widest and deepest soundstage I have ever achieved. And more important is that I can hear the details and ambiance and the air around the instruments are the best ever. The double bass are just rock solid in their place way back in the soundstage and yet giving out a detailed and musical sound echoing the other instruments of the orchestra. The layout is very natural and not the artificial pinpoint focus. One can just feel the rapport  amongst the various instruments of the orchestra. As my friend commented it's like being the conductor of the orchestra. And fortunately there is no more dropouts today. And it seems that adding this second ER gives the best reward and is well worth its price. Now the SQ has surpassed the 2 stacked SOtM switches.  Bravo Alex.

 

So to conclude my first 72 hours impression with ER 

(1) Direct comparison with SOtM the ER may not have advantage and will need further boiling before any definitive conclusion

(2) The sound character of ER is different from SOtM

(3) The stacked SOtM with ER can give additive effect

(4) Second ER between NAS and router can give big boost in SQ

(5) The power supply to the ER needs further testing

 

And in my system using two ER becomes a must.

 

Having said that I am still confused about the cause of the dropouts and I shall raise the questions over in the installation thread.

Thanks again for your great product Alex and John.

 

So @hols you are daisy chain ER and SOTM switch both clocked to Cybershaft OP20 and used between Router to server/render while another ER was in between the Router and NAS??

 

 

[Urs]

I received the etherREGEN last Friday, waited a few hours to let it adjust to room temperature, inserted it into the system, waited another few hours and then started to listen. I never expected such a significant - immediatly evident improvement. I cannot express better what I heard than what @thotdoc wrote a while ago:

"What's different so far is lower noise floor, better harmonics and more data in mid bass, more precise stops and starts of notes and more detail in and surrounding the notes....Space  between people more clearly defined...but there seems to be sound in that space, not grain."

 

My system as seen from the etherREGEN:
- upstream (A-side): all music is stored locally on Synology NAS, roon core on sonicTransporter i7, connected with good quality (though nothing special) CAT6a or CAT7 cables to a Cisco SG300-20-20 Gigabit managed switch

- downstream (B-side): Cardas Clear ethernet cable --> dCS Vivaldi stack (latest software) --> AR Ref 6 --> Pass 250.8 --> Magico S3 Mk2 (with SPODs)

 

Power: everything - except the etherREGEN - is plugged into an Isotek Sigmas, which itself uses a separat powerline. The etherREGEN, using the standard power supply is plugged into a different wall socket 

 

Cables: analog: Cardas Clear Beyond and Jorma speaker cables. Digital: Black Cat Digit 75 Mk2.

 

Was listening to (some examples only): Tracy Chapman, Cowboy Junkies, Eric Clapton, David Bowie, K.D. Lang, Marissa Nadler, Leonard Cohen, Pentangle, Beatles (50th ann. Abbey Road), Gene Clark (No Other)

Classical: Bach: Suites for Cello (Janos Starker), Haydn: String Quartets (London Haydn Quartet)

 

Hats off and big thanks to John Swenson and Alex. In my setup this little device with great engeneering art has a major positive impact.

 

[matthias]

10 minutes ago, Urs said:

My system as seen from the etherREGEN:
- upstream (A-side): all music is stored locally on Synology NAS, roon core on sonicTransporter i7, connected with good quality (though nothing special) CAT6a or CAT7 cables to a Cisco SG300-20-20 Gigabit managed switch

- downstream (B-side): Cardas Clear ethernet cable --> dCS Vivaldi stack (latest software) --> AR Ref 6 --> Pass 250.8 --> Magico S3 Mk2 (with SPODs)

 

Did you try to remove the Cisco?

If yes, what was the outcome?

Thanks

 

Matt

[Urs]

3 minutes ago, matthias said:

 

Did you try to remove the Cisco?

If yes, what was the outcome?

Thanks

 

Matt

No, that would not be an option. We need the Cisco in our home LAN to connect all the devices (WAPs, network printer, TV, PC, other roon endpoints (microRendu)). Some devices are also in the basement. We use quite a number of in-wall ethernet cabling and the Cisco "sits" in the center of it.

[hols]

9 hours ago, Superdad said:

 

Hi Hols: Thanks for your report. Just to be clear for others, Hols must have gotten his two EtherREGENs from one of our dealers as I promise we did not ship two units to any single direct buyer in the first batch. 

 

Certainly any stuttering is not related to use of external reference clock as we have others using this feature with no issue (and of course we tested ourselves).

I agree with that and what I have been quoting is what happened when I tried the ER. And mind you that mys system has been running without any problem with the SOtM switch in place and it is quite logical to ask what went wrong.

 

When using an external clock it is important to consider the power supply for the clock and where its 0-volt/-VE ("ground") is going and what it may be common to.  That is because the BNC "ground" of the EtherREGEN's clock input is on the 'B' side of the moat.  So depending on what else the clock power supply may be connected to--as well as what upstream gear other 10MHz outputs of that clock may be connected to--one can end up defeating the EtherREGEN's active differential isolation moat and losing some of its benefits.

The point is after using the external clock the performance of the ER actually improves so I propose not to add the power supply of the Cybershaft clock into the picture. And as a matter of fact the power supply of the Cybershaft is not floating. 

 

Really any dropouts are not related to connectivity of the EtherREGEN. Such is generally a software and throughput issue.  I myself experienced such with HQ Player Embedded feeding Roon when files were elsewhere on network, but that was only until I set my server to Gigabit. You mention using HQP Embedded as well, but I am not familiar with Doppio that you mention. Is that some type of player s/w?  You may be able to experiment with some buffer settings.

You can take it that my Doppio server is a Linux server with the OS and kernel compiled by my buddy and with HQPe installed and functioning normally as any other OS like Audiolinux and there is no stuttering before using the ER. Like most others using the HQplayer it is briged with the endpoint NAA. And it seems that bridging is one of the issues that John is asking.

 

No the issue we are working on has only to do with connectivity and dropping of IP leases. John may have found the root cause, but it will take a couple of days until he can fully investigate.  Based on what he told me tonight about what he found, I suppose there is a minor chance that the stuttering you got could be a side effect of the actual problem. I guess if IP connection was bouncing on and off or if there was some crazy excess negotiation traffic going on--such could cause some data delay issues.  I am just speculating.

 

 

I'd like to see a diagram of your network and what with the second EtherREGEN you were feeding from its 100Mbps 'B' side.

Attached a photo of my network diagram.

 

Well that's great! 

 

 

That is quite the turnaround from where you started. Wonderful! 

 

 

[hols]

5 hours ago, hieukm said:

So @hols you are daisy chain ER and SOTM switch both clocked to Cybershaft OP20 and used between Router to server/render while another ER was in between the Router and NAS??

 

 

You are right that I daisy chained the SOtM switch and the ER both clocked to Cybershaft OP20  but it is used between the server HQPe and the endpoint NAA. Another ER was placed between Router and NAS without clocking because physical distance too far from Cybershaft.

[Sonic77]

55 minutes ago, stevebythebay said:

Maybe a dumb question, but why are you connecting the SonicTransporter into the switch rather than into the eR, while using another port on the eR for your Xfinity modem?  Doing so would get the modem “out of the way” and used only for the Internet and accessing whatever you need from the SonicTransporter (Roon, etc.).  It would streamline things and possibly help uncover a potential source of your angst. 

I just connected to my SonicTransporter from the eR then from there to the SonicTransporter to the ultraRendu, (bridged) if you can't hear a difference there, maybe an ear doctor visit is in order.

 

switch>etherRegen _>SonicTransporter_>ultraRendu>Blu/Dave Dac