UpTone Audio EtherREGEN Listening Impressions

[cat6man]

On 4/30/2020 at 4:45 PM, ray-dude said:

 

Great report, thank you for posting!  I've been doing similar experiments over the last couple weeks.  In my chain, an LPS 1.2 on my EdgeRouter 10X had a surprisingly positive impact.

 

what voltage did you run the lps 1.2 at?

 

fyi------mine is edgerouterX-SFP and comes with a 24v, 2.5A wall wart power supply.

says it support 9v-26v input and has a 5W maximum power consumption.

not sure why a 60W supply is needed for a 5W comsumption, on the other hand we know that oversized power supplies often have benefits due to the ability to provide peaks.

 

assume i'll run it at 12v to get maximum 12W out of the lps 1.2

[cat6man]

On 4/30/2020 at 5:38 PM, Mike Rubin said:

This seems like a smart idea, but my network knowledge is rudimentary.  These probably are dumb questions, but I gotta ask, since I was gifted an edge router that still is sitting in a box because I don't know how to add it to my system.

 

(1).  Do the two routers have different 192.168.x.1 addresses? 

 

(2).  If they do, how does the fios router reserve the edge router's address? 

 

(3).  With the edge router, do you turn off dhcp and just assign a fixed address to the Rendu?  

 

1.  yes, i set the edgerouterX statically to 192.168.1.21 so it wouldn't conflict with my fios router.

2.  i picked a static address not used elsewhere

3.  absolutely, you don't want two dhcp servers fighting.  Rendu's IP was already statically assigned by fios router.

 

the key is to change the edgerouterX default IP address before putting it on the network.

i set my laptop to a static IP address, connected only to edgerouterX, logged in to 192.168.1.1 and changed the edgerouterX's

default IP address.  then put edgerouterX on my home network.

[cat6man]

On 4/30/2020 at 6:40 PM, David A said:

 

Looking at your diagrams, I can't see why you chose to add the Edge Router. I can understand the thinking in relation to separating the server from the rest of the network though I wouldn't have expected it to make a significant difference. Having said that, I've had too many experiences since getting into computer audio of finding that things I never expected to make a significant difference have actually made a significant difference so I'm not doubting your report of an improvement with the change.

 

My point in asking, however, is that if separating your server from the 24 port switch connected to the rest of the network was the goal, why not simply use another ethernet switch to do that instead of a second router? A router does a lot of extra things that a switch doesn't do, so more complex circuitry, more going on, and potentially could generate more noise than a switch would generate. You really only need one router in the network but that router can connect to more than one switch. The simplest approach would seem to be to use a switch rather than a router to connect the audio system to the Fios router rather than using a second router to do so. If you noticed an improvement in sound quality when you introduced the Edge router, then you should see at least the same improvement if you simply used a switch instead of the Edge router and you might actually see a little bit more improvement if the switch is a little less noisy electrically than the Edge router.

 

Do you have a spare 5 or 8 port switch, preferably an unmanaged switch, lying around? If you do, try swapping it for the Edge router and see whether that makes a difference.

 

As an example of the approach I'm suggesting, in my own network I have 3 switches connected to my router. One switch connects to my Mac and some peripherals, another switch connects my AV system (a separate system to my audio system, and the 3rd switch is actually my EtherREGEN with the router and my Roon Nucleus+ server connected to the A side and my Devialet amplifier which has its own internal DAC and an ethernet port for streaming input connected to the B side. 

 

i think we are in agreement.

 

since i turn off the dhcp server in the edgerouterX, i guess(?) it is effectively working as a switch (though i'm not deep into routing so i'm not sure).  the edgerouterX is less than $100 and was highly regarded on some other forums so i went for it.

i guess it also gives me the option to do things like use optical, QoS settings, etc -- that may or may not be useful in the future.

 

my next step is to get rid of the wall wart switching power supply and see what that does for me.......however, one of my tube monoblocks just blew a fuse, so testing may be delayed (or i'll move testing to my headphones )

[Superdad]

cat6man and Mike:

You gents are wandering a bit off topic for this thread... 

 

A quick update:

In the past 7 days ALL the EtherREGEN orders promised for May 5th shipment were again shipped out early! (We are getting good at this. ) Not a one left on the shelf.

Another 250 circuit boards are due to arrive late-May, but I blew it and did not order more aluminum cases early enough. Due to Japanese Golden Week holiday and Covid-19 slowdown, the cases will not arrive to us until June 25th, so we are promising new EtherREGEN orders for shipment by July 7th.  Maybe we will get lucky and the cases will arrive sooner (our supplier often ships early, though this time I don't know).

 

Hope everyone enjoys a lovely spring weekend--even if stuck not being able to socialize in person during these unsettled and tragic times.

All the best,

--Alex C.

[cat6man]

3 minutes ago, Superdad said:

cat6man and Mike:

You gents are wandering a bit off topic for this thread... 

--Alex C.

 

sorry, i thought this was relevant to listening impressions and how to make the etherRegen sound even better!

we can take the router setup details offline but i thought the improvement to the already excellent eR was worth discussing here

 

be well and stay safe everyone!

[Superdad]

12 minutes ago, cat6man said:

sorry, i thought this was relevant to listening impressions and how to make the etherRegen sound even better!

 

No worries!

There is a good thread for all the tuning tweaks:

 

 

[Meridimac]

On 5/1/2020 at 5:50 PM, cat6man said:

mine is edgerouterX-SFP and comes with a 24v, 2.5A wall wart power supply.

says it support 9v-26v input and has a 5W maximum power consumption.

not sure why a 60W supply is needed for a 5W comsumption, on the other hand we know that oversized power supplies often have benefits due to the ability to provide peaks.

 

I use the same Ubiquiti router with a TeraDak 24V 2.5A lps replacing the wall wart. My plan to simply run fiber from its SFP cage to the ER got upended when I tried a Cisco 2960 switch in between the two, which I like better.  EdgeRouter X SFP > optical fiber > Cisco Catalyst > Cable Matters cat8 > EtherREGEN

[lxgreen]

I am using a small green computer (SMG) 12 v lps to power my router. After reading about the positive benefits of replacing EtherRegen  smps with an LPS despite Uptone stating this should not have much effect, I put the 12 v LPS on the EtherRegen. Using a streamed file I was unable to detect any sonic benefits from the LPS. I use a SMG 19v LPS to power my sonictransporter i7 and that definitely had a very noticeable positive impact on sq so I believe these LPS are of good quality. I know others have had good impact with the Uptone lps 1.2  so not sure if that is just a better unit or an lps doesn’t have impact in my system. To be fair before switching to the lps, I critically listened to my test file before switching and relistening to test file. As I listened I was thinking to myself that this sounds so good I can’t imagine how anything could improve on it. I guess I was right.

[Discopants]

@Ixgreen maybe taking the LPS from the router to put it on the Etherregen was neutral. Did you critically listen after you took it from the router or before ?

 

I've just had my first listen to Redbook and up streaming on my system at the weekend taking a free tidal trial, very nice uptick

 

Previously I was just listening to Spotify premium and you tube. My digital amp converts all audio to 24bit 96khz. In my system adding the ER gave more performance gain than subsequently going from Spotify to tidal. I use a through the power line Ethernet solution to get to the hifi and I suspect this is significant for me as to the Etherregen performance gains.

[lxgreen]

I agree, the EtherRegen was an improvement to my system. It was just that using an LPS didn’t improve sq over the supplied power supply. I did listen critically prior to installing LPS, after installing, and then finally after switching back to supplied ps.

[Ponkbutler]

6 minutes ago, lxgreen said:

I agree, the EtherRegen was an improvement to my system. It was just that using an LPS didn’t improve sq over the supplied power supply. I did listen critically prior to installing LPS, after installing, and then finally after switching back to supplied ps.

 

Or perhaps that LPS. I use a Sean Jacobs  custom LPS on my EtherRegen and it made a very big difference. Noting subtle at all.

[MartinT]

My system is as shown in my signature and the diagram.  The EtherREGEN is inserted between my TP-Link 4G router and the Asus Tinker Board S single board computer running Volumio.  The feed into the A side is via an Acoustic Revive RLI-1 LAN isolator and 3m MeiCord ethernet cable.  The feed from the B side is via a very short 12cm Cat6 link cable.

 

The EtherREGEN is powered from a Chinese 12V 50VA linear power supply via an MCRU PC-OCC carbon loaded shielded DC cable.  It sits on two Black Ravioli Pads and there is a granite coaster on top.  A Black Ravioli Eflos grounding box is connected to the spade terminal.

 

Burn-in

At first listen, from brand new and stone cold, there was not much difference that I could ascertain.  Things were left to warm up and burn in.  The ER runs warm but not too hot to touch, even with the coaster on top, which rapidly comes to the same temperature.

 

After 24 hours, I swapped the short B side SFTP Cat6 link for an unshielded Cat6 and there was an immediate lessening of the slight hardness I could hear. This was probably connecting the chassis of the ER and Asus together, defeating the moat.  Everything was smoother yet still detailed and dynamic.

 

After 48 hours, I swapped the stock SMPS for the LPSU. I could hear the LPSU immediately respond to a Cleanwave from the P3.  I was rewarded with a darker background, more vivid contrasts, greater depth and authority.  This was most likely due to the effect of removing the SMPS from my regenerator, the rest of the system using ultra-quiet power supplies.

 

After 60 hours, I added the Black Ravioli Eflos grounding box to the ground terminal. This gave an even lower noise floor, more rear stage detail, deeper soundstage. Greater impact.  There is considerably more depth, reverb and decay. It sounds very vinyl-like but without the downsides.

 

Listening Impressions

This is after 100 hours of continuous music through the ER.  I noted the enhanced fine detail in the opening to Lou Reed – Walk on the Wild Side, followed by the change in quality of the faded in female backing singers later on. Listening to Anna Ternheim – Bow Your Head, the mandolin throughout the song is startling in its tone, string sound and vividness.  There is tremendous immediacy and impact in Joan Armatrading – Willow, as well as the reverb on the drum, a quite stunning song recorded back in 1977. The opening atmosphere in two Juliette Commagere songs The Big Middle and Plantsong are both notable.

 

The drive, impact and sheer intensity, not to mention the huge dynamic range of Alt-J – Dissolve Me. From thunderous synth chords to near silence and back again, the stage behind solo voice could be clearly heard.  Rick Wakeman – White Rock has a very busy mix that can sound murky on lesser systems. Every strand is revealed, the bass kept tight throughout and his finger dexterity on the keyboard showcased.

 

There is amazing reverb down to silence on Mimi Parker’s voice in Low – Lullaby.  Plastic Cup, another Low song, also features the incredible sound of Mimi's voice, made to sound more dimensional and real. In Massive Attack – Angel, the soundstage atmosphere at the opening brings out the foreground beat more starkly, again deep bass remaining as tight as ever.  Finally, Van Morrison – Into the Mystic, has a delicate acoustic guitar in the opening against a gentle backdrop, everything beautifully placed in the soundstage and far clearer than I’ve ever heard it before.

 

Conclusions

The ER, in my system, lowers the system noise floor and brings out soundstage, depth and fine detail to a notable degree.  By enhancing the contrast between foreground instruments and the sound of the recording space, dynamics if anything are made even starker.  Very deep subsonic bass comes across with greater texture.

 

The addition of an LPSU and a grounding box both released even more performance from the ER.

 

Double reclocking (ethernet and S/PDIF) benefits are additive.

 

[PYP]

19 minutes ago, MartinT said:

My system is as shown in my signature and the diagram.  The EtherREGEN is inserted between my TP-Link 4G router and the Asus Tinker Board S single board computer running Volumio.  The feed into the A side is via an Acoustic Revive RLI-1 LAN isolator and 3m MeiCord ethernet cable. 

 

Perhaps you are pleased enough to just leave it as is now, but you might try removing the LAN isolator.  I ended up taking mine out of the chain.  Just a thought....

[MartinT]

49 minutes ago, PYP said:

 

Perhaps you are pleased enough to just leave it as is now, but you might try removing the LAN isolator.  I ended up taking mine out of the chain.  Just a thought....

 

Thanks, I will try that out once the sound has really settled down.

[audiojerry]

As my moniker shows, I do no post very often (feeling a little guilty about that - I've mined so much useful information from this community). A couple of years ago I did post very positive results after installing Uptone's ISO REGEN and LPS-1 Power Supply in front of my PS Audio DirectStream Jr. DAC. 

 

I have since moved on to the PS Audio DirectStream Sr DAC, and found superior sound quality from the ethernet connection into the Bridge II over USB with the Ether Regen and LPS-1.  Other than some inconsistent connection issues with JRiver, I have been completely content with the SQ via ethernet.

 

But after reading reviews of the EtherREGEN here, I thought I might as well give it a try. What the heck, I had nothing to lose with Uptone's generous return policy. but I was sceptical that the Ether Regen could make much of an audible difference..

 

I WAS SO VERY WRONG!

 

I won't go into much detail about what the ER provided, but after breaking it in with music for 48 hours, everything got better, and it was instantly easy to notice. All the prior positive reviews describe quite nicely everythiing I was hearing. One of the things that amazed me was the way subtle details surfaced and were illuminated to my ears, and I would think, "Oh my, that is so sweet and organic". 

 

The ER is for real!

 

        

[nounours18200]

Well I have recently decided to follow the route of removing all the SMPS that may affect the sound quality.

 

My LAN config will soon be available on my website (I will edit this post to insert the link) but here are the main things to know:

1st Floor:

          NAS1 + NAS2 ---> NetGear Switch with stocked SMPS ---> going to the Main D-Link 24 ports switch located at Ground Floor.

Ground Floor: 

          Main D-Link 24 ports switch receiving all the Ethernet connexions from the house

          + Orange LiveBox (providing internet access)

          + my room dedicated to my main HiFi system (URL will follow).

 

Before going further you have to know that the main 24 ports switch has its own internal 230V power supply so I cannot replace its P.S.

I have started by replacing the SMPS feeding the Netgear Switch at the 1st Floor by an LPS: an AMB Sigma 11 delivering 12V that I had previously built. This is NOT the main switch, but just a switch onto the 2 NAS are connected. The Music is stored on NAS1.

 

Incredible: the improvement is clearly audible: more detail, clearer notes, etc....

 

This convinced me that "bits are not just bits", or in other words, that the switches do matter more than I suspected. I have been in the IT world for 30 years, so it was difficult for me to accept the idea that a switch may affect the SQ.

 

I have then installed the EtherREGEN  yesterday in my dedicated room, and let it powered ON during the night.

 

My God: the improvement is just unbelievable !! The EtherREGEN achieves an incredible and unexpected SQ improvement ! On my high resolving system the iprovement is really unexpected.

Regarding its price, the SQ improvement is unbelievable. Period.

 

So I will continue to try to improve the SQ by removing the remaining SMPS (Orange Livebox) and try a Masterclock and a LPS on the EtherREGEN.

 

I have not clearly understood the technology inside the EtherREGEN, but this device is a wonderful success...

 

More to come in the coming days....

[Jud]

I find myself listening with eyes closed a lot more, just savoring the music. Anyone else?

[stevebythebay]

I like listening in a completely darkened room.  It's simply one less sense to get in the way of the music.  Only downside is if I'm too relaxed, it's off to dreamland.  Gotta' get a straight back, wooden chair, rather than the leather sofa and ottoman I'm used to.🤷‍♂️

[feelingears]

@Jud OTOH, with the EtherREGEN and a Transparent Audio Ethernet cable out the B-side, the sound is so fantastic I can listen with eyes open and feel the emotion as if my eyes were closed or I were in a darkened room!

 

But I still do prefer a darker environment as I believe our brains are too wired for sight. There's some research about plasticity and how even a little bit of light reaching the eyes will cause our brains to bias for sight rather than amp up other senses like hearing. Seems reasonable. Anyway, what an glorious time to have such affordable hi-res gear!

[audiojerry]

I've read several posts where a quite a few pieces of hardware are connected to the system between the music source and the DAC. Some are connected before the Ether Regen and some after the ER?  

 

It seems to me that the sonic benefits from the Ether Regen are derived from reducing the noise floor of incoming noise carried on the ethernet cable.  (I'm ignorant about what the clock does) Could adding more hardware with its accompanying electrical power supplies between the ER and the DAC introduce another source of contamination, thus defeating the benefits of the ER?.   

 

BTW, I should note that in addition to the amazing increase in SQ from the ER, I also heard an improvement from the ER when I replaced a generic ethernet cable on the 'B' side of the ER with a better quality ethernet cable (1 meter of Cable Matters SFTP Cat8 Ethernet Cable). Thanks to the Uptone community for that Amazon recommendation.

[Superdad]

12 minutes ago, audiojerry said:

I've read several posts where a quite a few pieces of hardware are connected to the system between the music source and the DAC. Some are connected before the Ether Regen and some after the ER?

 

Hi Jerry: Glad to know you are enjoying the EtherREGEN so much. 

 

In general, and in agreement with our guidelines and the technology itself, most people who have the EtherREGEN--even in chains with other network switches, etc.--find it is best to have the EtherREGEN be the last element, directly connected to whatever is their DAC-attached computer/streamer/renderer endpoint (or best of all, Ethernet-input-equipped DAC).

That seems to be the case even fo those using a certain other brand 2.6x the price switch, and I think this says something about the quality of isolation and upstream clock signature blocking that the EtherREGEN does. 

 

12 minutes ago, audiojerry said:

It seems to me that the sonic benefits from the Ether Regen are derived from reducing the noise floor of incoming noise carried on the ethernet cable.  (I'm ignorant about what the clock does).

 

Please do take a look at our fairly clear 'white paper' to get a better sense of why clocking of packet data interfaces can end up having an effect on the DAC.

 

12 minutes ago, audiojerry said:

Could adding more hardware with its accompanying electrical power supplies between the ER and the DAC introduce another source of contamination, thus defeating the benefits of the ER?.

 

I think it depends upon the qualities such upstream devices, including their ground connections and power supplies. The EtherREGEN is pretty good a blocking a lot of things, but based on feedback from those with amazing ears/systems and time to play with it all, variables upstream still make a difference--for better or worse...

 

12 minutes ago, audiojerry said:

BTW, I should note that in addition to the amazing increase in SQ from the ER, I also heard an improvement from the ER when I replaced a generic ethernet cable on the 'B' side of the ER with a better quality ethernet cable (1 meter of Cable Matters SFTP Cat8 Ethernet Cable). Thanks to the Uptone community for that Amazon recommendation.

 

Glad you are liking that bargain. All credit goes to others here (@lmitche and others) for sorting through a whole bunch of differently constructed/shielded quality low cost cables. Not something I have had time for (too busy trying to build boxes!), but certainly if a cable is going to be heard it will be that last leg from the 'B' port to the endpoint which will be most important.

 

Hope everyone has a lovely weekend. Don't forget that Sunday is Mother's Day! 

--Alex C.

[MartinT]

I am still getting burn-in improvements after about 170 hours of constant music through the EtherREGEN. Christina Pluhar's All'Improvviso sounds like a new recording, such is the ambient detail coming through.

In wildly different music, Portishead's Roads sounded equally stunning with the backdrop behind Beth Gibbons' voice.

[nounours18200]

On 5/8/2020 at 9:27 AM, audiojerry said:

 I also heard an improvement from the ER when I replaced a generic ethernet cable on the 'B' side of the ER with a better quality ethernet cable (1 meter of Cable Matters SFTP Cat8 Ethernet Cable). Thanks to the Uptone community for that Amazon recommendation.

 

I live in France and cannot buy this cable from Amazon, not directly from Cablematters website.

Do you know another source that would ship to France ??

[audiojerry]

3 hours ago, nounours18200 said:

I live in France and cannot buy this cable from Amazon, not directly from Cablematters website.

Do you know another source that would ship to France ??

I've seen it on Ebay. Have you tried looking there?

[nounours18200]

Quote

I've seen it on Ebay. Have you tried looking there?

I did look on eBay but, when it relates to cablematters,  I have only seen USB cables, not RJ45 cables.

Can you give me the eBay URL where you have seen it ??