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UpTone Audio EtherREGEN Listening Impressions


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1 hour ago, auricgoldfinger said:

 

I'm not sure.  SR suggests buying fuses rated at 1.3x - 1.6x the stock fuse rating.  I follow that rule and have never had a problem.

 

Interesting. I wasn't aware of that suggestion. 

A while back I had some audiophile slo-blow fuse running in my tube amp without issues. Eventually upgraded the KT88 tubes, which blew the fuse. I put back the stock fuse and worked well. Replaced the audiophile fuse and it blew again. That was enough to let go.

 

Using a larger value fuse would have been an option, although also allowing for less protection to the circuit downstream. It's a non-issue while there is no failure, of course.

Roon Server: Gigabyte GA-Z170X UD5, i5 6600, Crucial MX200 SSD, HyperX 1x16GB RAM, Seasonic 520W 80+ PSU, 3 HDD for media, Zalman Z3 Plus case, Win 10 Pro, convolving in Roon digital xo + DRC + upsampling. Output through ethernet.

Roon Client AudioPC: Intel S1200KPR, Xeon E3 1265lv2, Crucial V4 SSD for OS, 8GB ECC RAM, PPA USB card v2, wide range picoPSU, PPA SATA cable for SSD, Streacom FC8 Evo case, lab linear PSU for picoPSU, Windows Server 2012 R2, AudioPhil's Optimizer, Acourate (digital crossovers, room correction )

Rest of Chain:

Uptone ISO Regen (with LPS 1.2) into Lynx Hilo as 6-channel DAC, McIntosh MC275 MkIV for mids & treble, Hypex UcD400HG for midbass into B&W 804S, 2 DIY 12" Rythmik subs, Equi=Core 1800 balanced power, dedicated power lines, room treatments

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3 minutes ago, LewinskiH01 said:

 

Interesting. I wasn't aware of that suggestion. 

A while back I had some audiophile slo-blow fuse running in my tube amp without issues. Eventually upgraded the KT88 tubes, which blew the fuse. I put back the stock fuse and worked well. Replaced the audiophile fuse and it blew again. That was enough to let go.

 

Using a larger value fuse would have been an option, although also allowing for less protection to the circuit downstream. It's a non-issue while there is no failure, of course.

 

The 1.3x - 1.6x ratio is specific to SR fuses.  It may or may not apply to other after market fuses. 

 

In regard to the SR fuses, it seems like their ratings may be overly aggressive.  In other words, a 1A SR fuse could function like a 0.8A fuse in real life situations.  If that assumption is correct, then you really are not getting less protection with a higher rated fuse.  Pure speculation on my part.

 

 

 

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Just now, feelingears said:

 

Thank you, @adamaley. No, what is unexpected (or perhaps entirely expected) is that putting ER before Orbi mesh wi-fi yields so much sonic goodness in my system. As I wrote, I had not intended to use it this way and I had hoped to have a device after the wi-fi as you suggested to enable me to use both Ethernet and the ER just before the <Lumin/Auralic/whatever> sending AES to the DAC. I expect this will take things to another level entirely, but things are really pretty dang awesome already. I'd rather spend $$$ on better speakers now than more digital! (And digital is complicated for me because the software is part of the mess.)

 

This has been a supremely satisfying journey of stepping up my system via various changes that have yielded substantial improvements. I use the same test tracks and have both vinyl and digital. The vinyl "doesn't change" (much) so it's a long-standing reference point, and I've heard other effortlessly outstanding systems as well. For my config and home and ears, the ER truly lets digital sing (even if it's ahead of wi-fi by necessity).

 

i'm sure it sounds great the way you have it, but I think it's worth trying it as suggested.  Can't hurt, right?

sources:  intel nuc8i7 (win10, roon core, hqplayer) (server) | intel nuc8i5 (audiolinux, naa) (renderer)
headphone rig:  schiit yggdrasil (a2, unison) > bryston bha-1 > senn hd600
main rig:  chord dave > parasound jc2bp > parasound jc5 > kef reference 1
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1 minute ago, jcn3 said:

 

i'm sure it sounds great the way you have it, but I think it's worth trying it as suggested.  Can't hurt, right?

 

Agreed, can't hurt to try but in my situation I don't have a renderer that accepts Ethernet input. As I said, software is part of the mess and I know how good the Uptone LPS-1.2 sounds driving the W4S Remedy fed by Mapleshade optical. Very idiosyncratic chain, I know, but it sounds glorious with local network files. Spotify, meh, good enough for parties if I'm not really listening. Need to try Qobuz as other ears I trust say it's better.

Sum>Frankenstein: Schiit Yggdrasil A2+SR Tesla/PS Audio P3 Regenerator+AVOptions Tibia, W4S Remedy/Uptone LPS-1.2, Linn LP12/Hercules II/Ittok/Denon DL-103R, Naim 250 DR, PSB, Elac, Uptone Audio ISO & EtherREGEN, Witch Hat/Audience/Silnote/ZenWave/Mapleshade/Transparent Audio cables, and a nice room.

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2 hours ago, feelingears said:

I don't have a renderer that accepts Ethernet input

 

It wouldn't work to have it running Ethernet into the Airport Express? (I don't know if that would make any difference, of course.)

One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller

The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein

Computer, Audirvana -> wi-fi to router -> EtherREGEN -> microRendu -> USPCB -> ISO Regen (powered by LPS-1) -> USPCB -> Pro-Ject Pre Box S2 DAC -> Spectral DMC-12 & DMA-150 -> Vandersteen 3A Signature.

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23 minutes ago, Jud said:

 

It wouldn't work to have it running Ethernet into the Airport Express? (I don't know if that would make any difference, of course.)

 

So it would be Orbi Satellite receiving wi-fi then Ethernet to AExpress (not Extreme) and then optical out.... Huh, I don't know if that will work. I wonder if you have to turn off the AEx's wi-fi in the setup. So if this does work, I'd put the ER in before AEx as you say.

 

Thanks for posting @Jud–I'll look into it later this week perhaps. Hmmm...

Sum>Frankenstein: Schiit Yggdrasil A2+SR Tesla/PS Audio P3 Regenerator+AVOptions Tibia, W4S Remedy/Uptone LPS-1.2, Linn LP12/Hercules II/Ittok/Denon DL-103R, Naim 250 DR, PSB, Elac, Uptone Audio ISO & EtherREGEN, Witch Hat/Audience/Silnote/ZenWave/Mapleshade/Transparent Audio cables, and a nice room.

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On 4/23/2020 at 3:28 AM, feelingears said:

 

Thank you, @adamaley. No, what is unexpected (or perhaps entirely expected) is that putting ER before Orbi mesh wi-fi yields so much sonic goodness in my system. As I wrote, I had not intended to use it this way and I had hoped to have a device after the wi-fi as you suggested to enable me to use both Ethernet and the ER just before the <Lumin/Auralic/whatever> sending AES to the DAC. I expect this will take things to another level entirely, but things are really pretty dang awesome already. I'd rather spend $$$ on better speakers now than more digital! (And digital is complicated for me because the software is part of the mess.)

 

This has been a supremely satisfying journey of stepping up my system via various changes that have yielded substantial improvements. I use the same test tracks and have both vinyl and digital. The vinyl "doesn't change" (much) so it's a long-standing reference point, and I've heard other effortlessly outstanding systems as well. For my config and home and ears, the ER truly lets digital sing (even if it's ahead of wi-fi by necessity).

 

Just be aware that running a wi-fi transceiver on a feed of 100mbit/sec may impact your LAN. If you are sure that you have CD quality music 2.8mbit/sec and no more than, say 2 devices connecting to your wifi your throughput should be good. But any more than that and you run the risk of flooding your 100mbit/sec EtherRegen connection.

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5 hours ago, GryphonGuy said:

 

Just be aware that running a wi-fi transceiver on a feed of 100mbit/sec may impact your LAN. If you are sure that you have CD quality music 2.8mbit/sec and no more than, say 2 devices connecting to your wifi your throughput should be good. But any more than that and you run the risk of flooding your 100mbit/sec EtherRegen connection.

 

Thank you–I typically only have phones connected to wi-fi although lately Google Chromecast has been in use. I wish I knew more about networking as I tried Jud's suggestion by setting up my AEx in bridged mode. Things connected but no sound came forth. But whatever, a couple unexpected non-sonic benefits came from the experiments.

Sum>Frankenstein: Schiit Yggdrasil A2+SR Tesla/PS Audio P3 Regenerator+AVOptions Tibia, W4S Remedy/Uptone LPS-1.2, Linn LP12/Hercules II/Ittok/Denon DL-103R, Naim 250 DR, PSB, Elac, Uptone Audio ISO & EtherREGEN, Witch Hat/Audience/Silnote/ZenWave/Mapleshade/Transparent Audio cables, and a nice room.

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happy user of the eR for a while now, just updating per latest system modification over here.

 

previously, i was running everything through my 24 port Netgear router, then eR to an opticalRendu.

case 0 shows my baseline system.

 

i just added an ubiquity edgerouterX to try to separate the music system from the rest of the house, so now

the music server and fios router feed the edgerouterX which feeds the B side of the eR (case 2)

 

big big improvement.  whether it is eliminating the 24port router from the music path or if the edgerouterX (even with wall wart power supply) somehow improves the sound.  so obviously, the moat is not 100% successful in eliminating upstream effects on SQ but the combination is worth looking at, expecially as the router is only about $100.  a good power supply on the edgerouterX is still in the future plans here.

 

 

 

case2.jpg

case0.jpg

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16 minutes ago, cat6man said:

a good power supply on the edgerouterX is still in the future plans here.

 

Great report, thank you for posting!  I've been doing similar experiments over the last couple weeks.  In my chain, an LPS 1.2 on my EdgeRouter 10X had a surprisingly positive impact.

ATT Fiber -> EdgeRouter X SFP -> Sonore opticalModule -> Taiko Audio Extreme -> Chord DAVE -> Voxativ 9.87 speakers w/ 4D drivers

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1 hour ago, cat6man said:

happy user of the eR for a while now, just updating per latest system modification over here.

 

previously, i was running everything through my 24 port Netgear router, then eR to an opticalRendu.

case 0 shows my baseline system.

 

i just added an ubiquity edgerouterX to try to separate the music system from the rest of the house, so now

the music server and fios router feed the edgerouterX which feeds the B side of the eR (case 2)

 

big big improvement.  whether it is eliminating the 24port router from the music path or if the edgerouterX (even with wall wart power supply) somehow improves the sound.  so obviously, the moat is not 100% successful in eliminating upstream effects on SQ but the combination is worth looking at, expecially as the router is only about $100.  a good power supply on the edgerouterX is still in the future plans here.

 

 

 

case2.jpg

case0.jpg

This seems like a smart idea, but my network knowledge is rudimentary.  These probably are dumb questions, but I gotta ask, since I was gifted an edge router that still is sitting in a box because I don't know how to add it to my system.

 

(1).  Do the two routers have different 192.168.x.1 addresses? 

 

(2).  If they do, how does the fios router reserve the edge router's address? 

 

(3).  With the edge router, do you turn off dhcp and just assign a fixed address to the Rendu?  

Living room:  Synology 218+ NAS > NUC 10 i7> Roon/Audirvana/JRiver Media Server > xfinity Xfi Router > Netgear GS348 Switch > EtherRegen > Sonore Signature Rendu SE Tier 2 > Wyred4Sound 10th Anniversary DAC > Wyred4Sound STI-500 > Revel F32 Concertas

 

Basement:  Synology 218+ NAS > NUC 10 i7>Roon/Audirvana/JRiver Media Server > Xfinity xfi Router > Netgear GS348 Switch >TrendNet FMC>Sonore OpticalModule> UltraRendu > NuPrime IDA-8 > KEF LS50's

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2 hours ago, cat6man said:

happy user of the eR for a while now, just updating per latest system modification over here.

 

previously, i was running everything through my 24 port Netgear router, then eR to an opticalRendu.

case 0 shows my baseline system.

 

i just added an ubiquity edgerouterX to try to separate the music system from the rest of the house, so now

the music server and fios router feed the edgerouterX which feeds the B side of the eR (case 2)

 

big big improvement.  whether it is eliminating the 24port router from the music path or if the edgerouterX (even with wall wart power supply) somehow improves the sound.  so obviously, the moat is not 100% successful in eliminating upstream effects on SQ but the combination is worth looking at, expecially as the router is only about $100.  a good power supply on the edgerouterX is still in the future plans here.

 

 

 

case2.jpg

case0.jpg

 

Looking at your diagrams, I can't see why you chose to add the Edge Router. I can understand the thinking in relation to separating the server from the rest of the network though I wouldn't have expected it to make a significant difference. Having said that, I've had too many experiences since getting into computer audio of finding that things I never expected to make a significant difference have actually made a significant difference so I'm not doubting your report of an improvement with the change.

 

My point in asking, however, is that if separating your server from the 24 port switch connected to the rest of the network was the goal, why not simply use another ethernet switch to do that instead of a second router? A router does a lot of extra things that a switch doesn't do, so more complex circuitry, more going on, and potentially could generate more noise than a switch would generate. You really only need one router in the network but that router can connect to more than one switch. The simplest approach would seem to be to use a switch rather than a router to connect the audio system to the Fios router rather than using a second router to do so. If you noticed an improvement in sound quality when you introduced the Edge router, then you should see at least the same improvement if you simply used a switch instead of the Edge router and you might actually see a little bit more improvement if the switch is a little less noisy electrically than the Edge router.

 

Do you have a spare 5 or 8 port switch, preferably an unmanaged switch, lying around? If you do, try swapping it for the Edge router and see whether that makes a difference.

 

As an example of the approach I'm suggesting, in my own network I have 3 switches connected to my router. One switch connects to my Mac and some peripherals, another switch connects my AV system (a separate system to my audio system, and the 3rd switch is actually my EtherREGEN with the router and my Roon Nucleus+ server connected to the A side and my Devialet amplifier which has its own internal DAC and an ethernet port for streaming input connected to the B side. 

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Yes, n

13 hours ago, Mike Rubin said:

Frisell’s most underrated work and, to my mind, the only one of his many albums that I would call a classic.  By itself, it’s a worthwhile reason to improve one’s system.

Yes, need to chase up this album.

Well remember the great gig he did here in Melbourne AU a decade back, in a relatively intimate venue.

mb pro>ethernet / elgar iso tran(2.5kVa, .0005pfd)>consonance pw-3 boards>ghent ethernet(et linkway cat8 jssg360)>etherRegen B-side(js-2)>ghent ethernet(et linkway cat8 jssg360) >ultraRendu A-side(clones lpsu split>lps1.2)>uspbc>iso regen(clones lpsu split>lps1.2)>curious regen link>rme adi-2 dac(js-2)>cawsey cables>naquadria sp2 passive pre> 1.naquadria lucien mkII.5 power>elac fs249be + elac 4pi plus.2> 2.perreaux9000b(mods)>2xnaq12” passive subs.

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1 hour ago, jamesg11 said:

Yes, n

Yes, need to chase up this album.

Well remember the great gig he did here in Melbourne AU a decade back, in a relatively intimate venue.

Try "Unspeakable" also. Am listening to that now.  I had forgotten how good that is, as well. 

Living room:  Synology 218+ NAS > NUC 10 i7> Roon/Audirvana/JRiver Media Server > xfinity Xfi Router > Netgear GS348 Switch > EtherRegen > Sonore Signature Rendu SE Tier 2 > Wyred4Sound 10th Anniversary DAC > Wyred4Sound STI-500 > Revel F32 Concertas

 

Basement:  Synology 218+ NAS > NUC 10 i7>Roon/Audirvana/JRiver Media Server > Xfinity xfi Router > Netgear GS348 Switch >TrendNet FMC>Sonore OpticalModule> UltraRendu > NuPrime IDA-8 > KEF LS50's

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