UpTone Audio EtherREGEN Listening Impressions

[Superdad]

10 minutes ago, auricgoldfinger said:

They come with a 30-day money back guarantee.

Does that apply even if you blow the fuse? 

[auricgoldfinger]

Just now, Superdad said:

Does that apply even if you blow the fuse? 

 

I'm not sure.  SR suggests buying fuses rated at 1.3x - 1.6x the stock fuse rating.  I follow that rule and have never had a problem.

[LewinskiH01]

1 hour ago, auricgoldfinger said:

 

I'm not sure.  SR suggests buying fuses rated at 1.3x - 1.6x the stock fuse rating.  I follow that rule and have never had a problem.

 

Interesting. I wasn't aware of that suggestion. 

A while back I had some audiophile slo-blow fuse running in my tube amp without issues. Eventually upgraded the KT88 tubes, which blew the fuse. I put back the stock fuse and worked well. Replaced the audiophile fuse and it blew again. That was enough to let go.

 

Using a larger value fuse would have been an option, although also allowing for less protection to the circuit downstream. It's a non-issue while there is no failure, of course.

[auricgoldfinger]

3 minutes ago, LewinskiH01 said:

 

Interesting. I wasn't aware of that suggestion. 

A while back I had some audiophile slo-blow fuse running in my tube amp without issues. Eventually upgraded the KT88 tubes, which blew the fuse. I put back the stock fuse and worked well. Replaced the audiophile fuse and it blew again. That was enough to let go.

 

Using a larger value fuse would have been an option, although also allowing for less protection to the circuit downstream. It's a non-issue while there is no failure, of course.

 

The 1.3x - 1.6x ratio is specific to SR fuses.  It may or may not apply to other after market fuses. 

 

In regard to the SR fuses, it seems like their ratings may be overly aggressive.  In other words, a 1A SR fuse could function like a 0.8A fuse in real life situations.  If that assumption is correct, then you really are not getting less protection with a higher rated fuse.  Pure speculation on my part.

[pl_svn]

if my equipment's manufacturer installs and recommends an, eg, 1A fuse... that's what I'll use

if third party fuses producer can't make them the right value and suggests using x1.3/1.6 higher values... I'd stay clear from that manufacturer. as simple as this 😛

 

fuses are there for your (and your equipment's) safety! 🙄

[Superdad]

For commenting earlier I know I am partly to blame, but the subject of fuses is WAY off-topic for this thread. Don't make me blow one... 

[Ponkbutler]

On 4/6/2020 at 10:02 PM, Vule said:

I am all ears too.

Just a minor suggestion. I f you want to hear how Double Bass sounds so real in your listening room try to listen album Those Who Were by Niels-Henning Orsted Pedersen.

Cheers

 

 

Fantastic recommendation! Many thanks....

[Superdad]

Since a lot of people follow this thread, here is a post--with a photo of yours truly ()--just made regarding ongoing JS-2 production.  Back to EtherREGEN production in the morning.

Thanks all!

 

[feelingears]

EtherRegen arrived this afternoon. Nice gift to myself fortuitously appearing on this sunny Friday afternoon. Impressions? Ha ha ha, here's the one you're gonna love to hate (great Halford song, by the way): My intended use was to place the ER ahead of my DAC like everyone else. I just needed something ahead of my DAC that would accept Ethernet input. And I meant to get something (Lumin, Auralic, Innuous, or something...), but with all that's going on, it just never happened (at least not yet).

 

So, why let this go to waste? I put it in where it made "sense," as close to the DAC as possible:

MacBook server/Ethernet -> EtherRegen/Stock PwrSupply/Ethernet -> Orbi Mesh Wi-Fi -> Apple AirportExpress/Mapleshade Clearlink Optical -> W4S Remedy/Uptone LPS-1.2 -> Yggy A2/Naim/Tellurium Black/PSB

 

Go ahead, doubters gonna doubt, haters–yep this is another one you love to hate. I'm just going to say that as with all Uptone products I own, the clearly audible improvement (not just "different") in recording transparency, freq extension, timbral realism, micro dynamics, sonic coherence, and PRaT is putting such a BIG grin on my cabin-feverish face that I am glad we just got extended another month here in Seattle. The ultimate achievement: I'm hearing things and hearing balance and feeling energy that makes me want to listen all night, rediscovering my music collection.

 

Just soooo good...thank you Alex and John, yet again!

 

[adamaley]

Hi @feelingears. Have you tried placing the etherRegen after the Orbi mesh Wi-Fi? Is that the router or the satellite? I think you will getter better sound the closer you can get it to the DAC. I use the Orbi mesh system myself, and have the etherRegen coming right after my satellite. If you have the current configuration because you want to take advantage of fiber, I believe the etherRegen has an SFP port that you can utilize for that particular scenario. I am open to be corrected if I am wrong. I really haven't moved my etherRegen since putting it in place - the sound has been that good.

[feelingears]

1 minute ago, adamaley said:

Hi @feelingears. Have you tried placing the etherRegen after the Orbi mesh Wi-Fi? Is that the router or the satellite? I think you will getter better sound the closer you can get it to the DAC. I use the Orbi mesh system myself, and have the etherRegen coming right after my satellite. If you have the current configuration because you want to take advantage of fiber, I believe the etherRegen has an SFP that you can utilize for that particular scenario.

 

Thank you, @adamaley. No, what is unexpected (or perhaps entirely expected) is that putting ER before Orbi mesh wi-fi yields so much sonic goodness in my system. As I wrote, I had not intended to use it this way and I had hoped to have a device after the wi-fi as you suggested to enable me to use both Ethernet and the ER just before the <Lumin/Auralic/whatever> sending AES to the DAC. I expect this will take things to another level entirely, but things are really pretty dang awesome already. I'd rather spend $$$ on better speakers now than more digital! (And digital is complicated for me because the software is part of the mess.)

 

This has been a supremely satisfying journey of stepping up my system via various changes that have yielded substantial improvements. I use the same test tracks and have both vinyl and digital. The vinyl "doesn't change" (much) so it's a long-standing reference point, and I've heard other effortlessly outstanding systems as well. For my config and home and ears, the ER truly lets digital sing (even if it's ahead of wi-fi by necessity).

[jcn3]

Just now, feelingears said:

 

Thank you, @adamaley. No, what is unexpected (or perhaps entirely expected) is that putting ER before Orbi mesh wi-fi yields so much sonic goodness in my system. As I wrote, I had not intended to use it this way and I had hoped to have a device after the wi-fi as you suggested to enable me to use both Ethernet and the ER just before the <Lumin/Auralic/whatever> sending AES to the DAC. I expect this will take things to another level entirely, but things are really pretty dang awesome already. I'd rather spend $$$ on better speakers now than more digital! (And digital is complicated for me because the software is part of the mess.)

 

This has been a supremely satisfying journey of stepping up my system via various changes that have yielded substantial improvements. I use the same test tracks and have both vinyl and digital. The vinyl "doesn't change" (much) so it's a long-standing reference point, and I've heard other effortlessly outstanding systems as well. For my config and home and ears, the ER truly lets digital sing (even if it's ahead of wi-fi by necessity).

 

i'm sure it sounds great the way you have it, but I think it's worth trying it as suggested.  Can't hurt, right?

[feelingears]

1 minute ago, jcn3 said:

 

i'm sure it sounds great the way you have it, but I think it's worth trying it as suggested.  Can't hurt, right?

 

Agreed, can't hurt to try but in my situation I don't have a renderer that accepts Ethernet input. As I said, software is part of the mess and I know how good the Uptone LPS-1.2 sounds driving the W4S Remedy fed by Mapleshade optical. Very idiosyncratic chain, I know, but it sounds glorious with local network files. Spotify, meh, good enough for parties if I'm not really listening. Need to try Qobuz as other ears I trust say it's better.

[Jud]

2 hours ago, feelingears said:

I don't have a renderer that accepts Ethernet input

 

It wouldn't work to have it running Ethernet into the Airport Express? (I don't know if that would make any difference, of course.)

[feelingears]

23 minutes ago, Jud said:

 

It wouldn't work to have it running Ethernet into the Airport Express? (I don't know if that would make any difference, of course.)

 

So it would be Orbi Satellite receiving wi-fi then Ethernet to AExpress (not Extreme) and then optical out.... Huh, I don't know if that will work. I wonder if you have to turn off the AEx's wi-fi in the setup. So if this does work, I'd put the ER in before AEx as you say.

 

Thanks for posting @Jud–I'll look into it later this week perhaps. Hmmm...

[GryphonGuy]

On 4/23/2020 at 3:28 AM, feelingears said:

 

Thank you, @adamaley. No, what is unexpected (or perhaps entirely expected) is that putting ER before Orbi mesh wi-fi yields so much sonic goodness in my system. As I wrote, I had not intended to use it this way and I had hoped to have a device after the wi-fi as you suggested to enable me to use both Ethernet and the ER just before the <Lumin/Auralic/whatever> sending AES to the DAC. I expect this will take things to another level entirely, but things are really pretty dang awesome already. I'd rather spend $$$ on better speakers now than more digital! (And digital is complicated for me because the software is part of the mess.)

 

This has been a supremely satisfying journey of stepping up my system via various changes that have yielded substantial improvements. I use the same test tracks and have both vinyl and digital. The vinyl "doesn't change" (much) so it's a long-standing reference point, and I've heard other effortlessly outstanding systems as well. For my config and home and ears, the ER truly lets digital sing (even if it's ahead of wi-fi by necessity).

 

Just be aware that running a wi-fi transceiver on a feed of 100mbit/sec may impact your LAN. If you are sure that you have CD quality music 2.8mbit/sec and no more than, say 2 devices connecting to your wifi your throughput should be good. But any more than that and you run the risk of flooding your 100mbit/sec EtherRegen connection.

[feelingears]

5 hours ago, GryphonGuy said:

 

Just be aware that running a wi-fi transceiver on a feed of 100mbit/sec may impact your LAN. If you are sure that you have CD quality music 2.8mbit/sec and no more than, say 2 devices connecting to your wifi your throughput should be good. But any more than that and you run the risk of flooding your 100mbit/sec EtherRegen connection.

 

Thank you–I typically only have phones connected to wi-fi although lately Google Chromecast has been in use. I wish I knew more about networking as I tried Jud's suggestion by setting up my AEx in bridged mode. Things connected but no sound came forth. But whatever, a couple unexpected non-sonic benefits came from the experiments.

[PYP]

Long-term listening seems to me to be the only way to evaluate a new piece of gear (or your whole system).  Can you listen for, oh say, 6+ hours a day without fatigue?  Do you listen to more new music now than before (thank you Roon + Qobuz)?  Do you enjoy your favorites in a new way?  If the answer to all of these is yes, I think most audiophiles would be pleased.

 

I received my eR in the first batch (and, yes, I've added that fact in my CV under Awards and Honors).  I can't say that I just dropped it in and was done with it.  The eR took a long, long while to settle into my system.  At times, with the included SMPS, all was well, but at other times not so much.  So I tweaked and made a few changes to my system.  Some were unrelated to the eR per se (for example, for reasons of safety from power surges, plugging my amps into the same Isotek power conditioner as my other gear -- had always bought the idea of amps and other stuff should be fed by separate dedicated outlets).  Other than that and the items listed below (added an UpTone JS-2 and Sonore oM), I added a new power cord for my DAC and moved the previous power cord to the JS-2).

 

Today I was listening to one of my favorites:  Bill Frisell's The Intercontinentals.  It is safe to say that I thought I knew every bent note and fully appreciated the amazing communication among the fine musicians.  Yet, there was more to be heard.  And I don't mean sound effects, finally hearing that gnat fart during the solo or subliminal rumbling subway beneath the piano; rather more emotional engagement with the music.  Remarkable.  

 

To my ears, the eR is a great achievement that has increased my listening pleasure.  Thanks, Alex and John.  You have certainly earned the great success by following your instincts.  

[cat6man]

happy user of the eR for a while now, just updating per latest system modification over here.

 

previously, i was running everything through my 24 port Netgear router, then eR to an opticalRendu.

case 0 shows my baseline system.

 

i just added an ubiquity edgerouterX to try to separate the music system from the rest of the house, so now

the music server and fios router feed the edgerouterX which feeds the B side of the eR (case 2)

 

big big improvement.  whether it is eliminating the 24port router from the music path or if the edgerouterX (even with wall wart power supply) somehow improves the sound.  so obviously, the moat is not 100% successful in eliminating upstream effects on SQ but the combination is worth looking at, expecially as the router is only about $100.  a good power supply on the edgerouterX is still in the future plans here.

 

 

 

[ray-dude]

16 minutes ago, cat6man said:

a good power supply on the edgerouterX is still in the future plans here.

 

Great report, thank you for posting!  I've been doing similar experiments over the last couple weeks.  In my chain, an LPS 1.2 on my EdgeRouter 10X had a surprisingly positive impact.

[Mike Rubin]

1 hour ago, cat6man said:

happy user of the eR for a while now, just updating per latest system modification over here.

 

previously, i was running everything through my 24 port Netgear router, then eR to an opticalRendu.

case 0 shows my baseline system.

 

i just added an ubiquity edgerouterX to try to separate the music system from the rest of the house, so now

the music server and fios router feed the edgerouterX which feeds the B side of the eR (case 2)

 

big big improvement.  whether it is eliminating the 24port router from the music path or if the edgerouterX (even with wall wart power supply) somehow improves the sound.  so obviously, the moat is not 100% successful in eliminating upstream effects on SQ but the combination is worth looking at, expecially as the router is only about $100.  a good power supply on the edgerouterX is still in the future plans here.

 

 

 

This seems like a smart idea, but my network knowledge is rudimentary.  These probably are dumb questions, but I gotta ask, since I was gifted an edge router that still is sitting in a box because I don't know how to add it to my system.

 

(1).  Do the two routers have different 192.168.x.1 addresses? 

 

(2).  If they do, how does the fios router reserve the edge router's address? 

 

(3).  With the edge router, do you turn off dhcp and just assign a fixed address to the Rendu?  

[David A]

2 hours ago, cat6man said:

happy user of the eR for a while now, just updating per latest system modification over here.

 

previously, i was running everything through my 24 port Netgear router, then eR to an opticalRendu.

case 0 shows my baseline system.

 

i just added an ubiquity edgerouterX to try to separate the music system from the rest of the house, so now

the music server and fios router feed the edgerouterX which feeds the B side of the eR (case 2)

 

big big improvement.  whether it is eliminating the 24port router from the music path or if the edgerouterX (even with wall wart power supply) somehow improves the sound.  so obviously, the moat is not 100% successful in eliminating upstream effects on SQ but the combination is worth looking at, expecially as the router is only about $100.  a good power supply on the edgerouterX is still in the future plans here.

 

 

 

 

Looking at your diagrams, I can't see why you chose to add the Edge Router. I can understand the thinking in relation to separating the server from the rest of the network though I wouldn't have expected it to make a significant difference. Having said that, I've had too many experiences since getting into computer audio of finding that things I never expected to make a significant difference have actually made a significant difference so I'm not doubting your report of an improvement with the change.

 

My point in asking, however, is that if separating your server from the 24 port switch connected to the rest of the network was the goal, why not simply use another ethernet switch to do that instead of a second router? A router does a lot of extra things that a switch doesn't do, so more complex circuitry, more going on, and potentially could generate more noise than a switch would generate. You really only need one router in the network but that router can connect to more than one switch. The simplest approach would seem to be to use a switch rather than a router to connect the audio system to the Fios router rather than using a second router to do so. If you noticed an improvement in sound quality when you introduced the Edge router, then you should see at least the same improvement if you simply used a switch instead of the Edge router and you might actually see a little bit more improvement if the switch is a little less noisy electrically than the Edge router.

 

Do you have a spare 5 or 8 port switch, preferably an unmanaged switch, lying around? If you do, try swapping it for the Edge router and see whether that makes a difference.

 

As an example of the approach I'm suggesting, in my own network I have 3 switches connected to my router. One switch connects to my Mac and some peripherals, another switch connects my AV system (a separate system to my audio system, and the 3rd switch is actually my EtherREGEN with the router and my Roon Nucleus+ server connected to the A side and my Devialet amplifier which has its own internal DAC and an ethernet port for streaming input connected to the B side. 

[Mike Rubin]

13 hours ago, PYP said:

Today I was listening to one of my favorites:  Bill Frisell's The Intercontinentals.  It is safe to say that I thought I knew every bent note and fully appreciated the amazing communication among the fine musicians.  Yet, there was more to be heard.  And I don't mean sound effects, finally hearing that gnat fart during the solo or subliminal rumbling subway beneath the piano; rather more emotional engagement with the music.  Remarkable.  

 

Frisell’s most underrated work and, to my mind, the only one of his many albums that I would call a classic.  By itself, it’s a worthwhile reason to improve one’s system.

[jamesg11]

Yes, n

13 hours ago, Mike Rubin said:

Frisell’s most underrated work and, to my mind, the only one of his many albums that I would call a classic.  By itself, it’s a worthwhile reason to improve one’s system.

Yes, need to chase up this album.

Well remember the great gig he did here in Melbourne AU a decade back, in a relatively intimate venue.

[Mike Rubin]

1 hour ago, jamesg11 said:

Yes, n

Yes, need to chase up this album.

Well remember the great gig he did here in Melbourne AU a decade back, in a relatively intimate venue.

Try "Unspeakable" also. Am listening to that now.  I had forgotten how good that is, as well.