UpTone Audio EtherREGEN Listening Impressions

[octaviars]

19 minutes ago, Vule said:

Larry just replied LPS does not have shared ground.

 

Older HD Plex only had three windings on the transformer so two outputs shared the -0V (12 and 19V). The latest 200W model have four seperate windings on the transformer so all outputs have seperated -0V.

 

I use the latest HD Plex 200W and run the 12V rail to my etherREGEN. As I only use one RJ45 on the A-side (fiber input from router) to my server I have tried both with and without grounded -0V but cant say that I hear any difference. 

[Vule]

I have hooked up Streamer on the B-side but Router and Roon Nucleus on the A-side. Wonder how much it can affect a sound ?!

[LewinskiH01]

On 11/15/2019 at 12:02 PM, Superdad said:

 

Happy to know that the EtherREGEN is playing nice with Focusrite Dante Rednet. Now we just need a user to confim that AES67/Ravenna with a Merging Hapi or NADAC also does okay with our switch’s 100Mbps ‘B’-side limit.

 

 

Has anybody tried the eR with Ravenna and Hapi or NADAC?

[Superdad]

1 hour ago, LewinskiH01 said:

Has anybody tried the eR with Ravenna and Hapi or NADAC?

 

There are several happy EtherREGEN owners (in Japan and Hungary per my e-mail searches) with Merging HAPI and NADAC.  I think the NADAC owner feeds from a Gigabit port on the 'A' side.  And @ferenc of "My Reel Club" is using the EtherREGEN with HAPI in his recording studio:

 

[PLGA]

I have the A side of ER connected to my WiFi Router and the B side to my bridge/streamer (SOtM SMS-200 Ultra Neo). 

 

Everything on the system (even the LPS for the Router and the ER) is connected to an Audioquest Niagara 1200, wich is on a AC dedicated line. 

 

I've tried connecting the ground of the ER to a free ground on the Niagara and it added some noise, like static. So, I disconnected it. 

 

Has anyone had a similar experience? 

[Pokey77]

I’ve had my  EtherREGEN (ER) since 2/26. Connected it to wall power that evening to start warming it up about 6PM and then the next morning I was able to put it in the system around 10AM. My rig is fairly simple and you can see my system configuration below in my sig. Also  of note, my particular ER came with little rubber feet on it. Not sure when that upgrade was instituted as I’ve never noted them in photographs of the ERs I’ve seen on the internet.   

 

I use the ER to treat the incoming internet signal delivered via a high-speed 300 mbs ATT fiberoptic service going to my Aurender N10.  The N10 is my sole source used to listen to Tidal HiFi.  For over three weeks I have had  constant  signal running through the ER to the N10, and feel that the ER is now burned in. I did have times when the music was not as good as others during the burn-in process but now it is just glorious all the time.  So  I’m fairly certain that the ER has stabilized. I don’t turn off the ER or any of my other gear; the system is on 24/7.   

 

My listening space is 13.5 X 20.5 with a 9 – 11.5 foot ceiling.  The listening position is 11’ from the front of the speaker plane. I usually listen at or near the same volume.  On my TAD C2000 preamp the volume is set to 40, which is around 70-80db with some peaks being 85ish based on readings using a SPLnFFT sound meter v7 app on my iPad. Playing at this same level, the music seems slightly louder. I also find I can now listen at much lower levels and still maintain excellent resolution.  

 

Listening  impressions:  

I noticed right away that with the ER in the system, an amazing level of scrim, grit, distortion, or what might be termed “digital haze” is either significantly reduced or totally gone. This allows me to see deeper into the music, hear new detail and find a sense of realness that was probably there all the time but could not be heard due to this “haze”. I can say with certainty that ALL tracks sound better with the ER. The benefit of the ER is across the board. Tracks that were borderline have become quite listenable. An example would be the band Pinback. Love their music but it certainly is not equally well recorded in all cases. With the ER, my favorite tracks from say Nautical Antiques, like “Anti-Hu”, might still not be sonically perfect, but because of reduced noise and the resulting improved sound quality it is much more enjoyable. In fact, all my favorite tracks from that record just sound much better. I also have favorite playlists that I’m very intimate with and can tell you I’m hearing those songs at a whole new level. I thought my system was very musically revealing before, but with the ER, it has become much more so. 

  

I will often listen to music while reading and researching audio gear (go figure).  With the ER in place, the music will now frequently catch my attention. Tracks I’ve heard many times stand out as having much better sound quality.  Some, with appropriate content on the recording, I find flabbergasting.  The ER lets the music through in a very clean, natural, 3-dimensional way. It is holographic and layered and lets my system sing in the most beautiful way. 

 

To summarize:  

• The music is now smoother, with significantly greater ease, and yet still has better detail in a very non-fatiguing way.  

• Bass is more fleshed out and textured and cymbals sound more correct.  

• The music is more dynamic.  Tone and tempo are more believable.  

• If the recorded material has the information, the room ambiance, bass reverberation, and synth echo are readily apparent.  

• Sound stage can expand well beyond the boundaries of the room and stage depth increases. 

 

The end result is a whole that is greater than the sum of the parts and must be heard to be believed.   

 

Associated with these significant gains in sound quality, the E-1 speakers often totally disappear when music plays. The ER just makes everything better. To say it is easy to hear these improvements would be an understatement. Anyone with half-decent hearing could easily hear the sound quality increase. It is very significant…“massive”, even.  Night and day is not an overstatement here.  

 

As you can tell, I am very pleased with the ER. Just as others before me have praised its many virtues, I too am singing its praises.  The readily heard improvement in sound quality shows how John Swenson's Moat technology employed in the ER effectively stops noise that is riding in on the fiber as well as noise from routers and other items that are in the path from the utility pole to your server or computer. I simply would not be without the ER. In fact, compared to the other upgrades I’ve performed on this system over the last 1.5 years since it was purchased, I can say unreservedly that the ER is THE best upgrade by far. It has brought me to a whole new level of musical enjoyment and I’m excited each time I sit down to listen. I am so very happy with how my system sounds now.   I’ve not thought at all – not even once - about sending the ER back to  Uptone.  It is not going anywhere.  

 

But, being an audiophile, I’m already looking into power supply and network cable upgrades. I’ve learned a lot from some of you who are already experimenting with these items. I will continue to experiment to see how much more I can pull out of this little ER since others have had good success with power supplies,  network cable, fiber optic cages, word clocks, etc.   

 

In closing, let me say, use your own ears and don’t worry about measurements or even the reasons why it does what it does. Measurements have their place but are unnecessary when your ears can so plainly hear what the EtherREGEN  does so beautifully for music. It makes it so much more listenable and brings it closer to (if not to the level of) a fine vinyl rig. Take the chance and hear it for yourself. You have nothing to lose and only increased listening pleasure to  gain.  

 

Note to  Uptone Audio: -John and Alex, you’ve really hit this one clean out of the park.  I think we all look forward to what new things you are working on at  Uptone.  

 

**Charley and Dorie, thanks so much. 

[Superdad]

49 minutes ago, Pokey77 said:

Also  of note, my particular ER came with little rubber feet on it. Not sure when that upgrade was instituted as I’ve never noted them in photographs of the ERs I’ve seen on the internet.  ....

Take the chance and hear it for yourself. You have nothing to lose and only increased listening pleasure to  gain.  

 

Wow, what a treat to read your thoughtful review on this rainy, dismal, Covid-19 news afternoon. Thank you VERY much.  Your words come out of nowhere for us as I have no idea who or where @Pokey77 is.  So glad to know you are enjoying the EtherREGEN in your music system.  I have only three comments--and one question:

 

1) You might consider placing the EtherREGEN in the room with your Aurender N10 to allow use of a much shorter cable on the 'B' side and fewer connections. From your signature it looks like you have several connections and likely close to 30 feet of cable from the 'B' port to your Aurender.

 

2) Those big round rubber feet have always been on all EtherREGENs--and all UltraCap power supplies. A no-charge, designed in from the beginning "upgrade?" 

 

3) Your reference to the band Pinback (reminds me of the character from my favorite old John Carpenter movie, Darkstar), got me curious so I just listened to samples from the rarities album you mentioned. Great and mellow stuff! A bit like some of the bands I listen to in the background such as Eels.  That Nautical Antiques CD (yes, I am old school and still buy CDs) is now in my Amazon shopping cart. Thanks for that! 

 

And the one question: Who are Charley and Dorie?

 

Stay healthy and have a great week,

--Alex C.

 

[austinpop]

11 minutes ago, Superdad said:

And the one question: Who are Charley and Dorie?

 

They’re fish, of course! *
 

* Reference: Finding Dory movie 

[Superdad]

I really do not want to eclipse @Pokey77's terrific review above, but I just noticed that a member named @hlkaye posted a very nice short review to my profile page this past Monday. It really would not get seen there (I almost missed it myself), so I am sure he won't mind my copy/paste of it into this thread:

 

Dear Alex,

I received my EtherRegen a few days ago and finally plugged it in yesterday.  My Dell computer is my server and most of my ethernet cabling is generic, with the exception of a short run of Blue Jean cable from the B side to my Auralic Vega G1.  The rest of my system a Zesto Leto 1.5 pre -amp, Aesthetix Atlas Signature amp, and MG 3.7i speakers. 

I'm sure you are bored with all the praise, but I was stunned just how noticeable the change in sound quality really was, even at relatively low volume the improvements in timbral accuracy and realism, separation of instruments, meaningful detail etc were obvious.  I didn't tell my wife about the new device, but she commented spontaneously how glorious the sound was.  As others have said, you really have come up with a great product for which we are all grateful. 

[Pokey77]

@Superdad Alex,

 

I meant to put a note in my review about the proximity of the ER to my server but forgot. I may try that at some point, but it does run pretty warm as you are aware and having it in a different room allows me to put it in an area where it can breath well. I do admit I'm curious to see if it is even better behind my rack close to the server. -I'm also thinking JS-2 where the ER is now and the second rail could power my router.

 

Pinback are a band that kind of rescued me. I hadn't had any real break throughs in new genre's in a long time and stumbled on them probably a decade ago - I was late to the party but for me it is a good one. I can say they are one of my favorite bands for sure. If you look into them more, just start at the beginning and work your way forward. You will be rewarded. Most of their stuff is on Tidal.

 

Charley and Dorie helped me flesh out my thoughts and get things in the right order. Chuck is a very good friend for sure.

 

@austinpop Your answer above is insightful and a bit hilarious. BTW, I was referring to you and others I've been learning from since I made my way to AS.

[austinpop]

2 minutes ago, Pokey77 said:

 

@austinpop Your answer above is insightful and a bit hilarious. BTW, I was referring to you and others I've been learning from since I made my way to AS.

Thanks! I was just being silly. It’s happy hour here in the US. 😉

[LowMidHigh]

52 minutes ago, Pokey77 said:

@Superdad Alex,

 

I meant to put a note in my review about the proximity of the ER to my server but forgot. I may try that at some point, but it does run pretty warm as you are aware and having it in a different room allows me to put it in an area where it can breath well. I do admit I'm curious to see if it is even better behind my rack close to the server. -I'm also thinking JS-2 where the ER is now and the second rail could power my router.

 

Pinback are a b and that kind of rescued me. I hadn't had any real break throughs in new genre's in a long time and stumbled on them probably a decade ago - I was late to the party but for me it is a good one. I can say they are one of my favorite bands for sure. If you look into them more, just start at the beginning and work your way forward. You will be rewarded. Most of their stuff is on Tidal.

 

Charley and Dorie helped me flesh out my thoughts and get things in the right order. Chuck is a very good friend for sure.

 

@austinpop Your answer above is insightful and a bit hilarious. BTW, I was referring to you and others I've been learning from since I made my way to AS.

Thank you for the well-written review. 

 

I'd like to share with you that I experimented with different cable lengths, due to placement consideration, and I didn't find any difference between a 45' and 3' Cat6 runs in terms of sonic performance. 

[Pokey77]

20 hours ago, austinpop said:

Thanks! I was just being silly. It’s happy hour here in the US. 😉

Yes, it was a bit silly! But we sure can use more of that right now.

[LewinskiH01]

On 3/21/2020 at 8:41 PM, Superdad said:

 

There are several happy EtherREGEN owners (in Japan and Hungary per my e-mail searches) with Merging HAPI and NADAC.  I think the NADAC owner feeds from a Gigabit port on the 'A' side.  And @ferenc of "My Reel Club" is using the EtherREGEN with HAPI in his recording studio

 

 

 

Just as a follow up and to leave trace for others who might be interested in the future: I contacted ferenc and he confirmed B-side doesn't work with Ravenna. He connects Hapi and streaming PC both to A-side, obviously not going across the moat. Yet he hears and improvement vs a regular Gigabit switch.

 

BTW, very unfortunately my late Feb eR was delievered in the US but is grounded there per COVID so will be some time until I can try it. Oh well. Not so bad in the bid scheme of things.

[Superdad]

19 hours ago, LewinskiH01 said:

Just as a follow up and to leave trace for others who might be interested in the future: I contacted ferenc and he confirmed B-side doesn't work with Ravenna. He connects Hapi and streaming PC both to A-side, obviously not going across the moat. Yet he hears and improvement vs a regular Gigabit switch.

 

I don't think has to use only 'A' side ports. He could connect Hapi to an 'A' side port and the network feed to the 'B' side port.  The EtherREGEN is performance-wise symmetrical around its moat. In other words, B>A direction has same quality as A>B.

 

19 hours ago, LewinskiH01 said:

BTW, very unfortunately my late Feb eR was delievered in the US but is grounded there per COVID so will be some time until I can try it. Oh well. Not so bad in the bid scheme of things.

Sorry to hear that Horacio.  The day after yours shipped to the US address you gave, we shipped to someone else who is also in Argentina. His was delivered to his door via FedEx in less than a week. We charge just $34 for that fast worldwide service. And FedEx is still delivering in your country now.

 

[LewinskiH01]

15 hours ago, Superdad said:

 

I don't think has to use only 'A' side ports. He could connect Hapi to an 'A' side port and the network feed to the 'B' side port.  The EtherREGEN is performance-wise symmetrical around its moat. In other words, B>A direction has same quality as A>B.

 

My understanding (through my questions to users) is one needs to establish a "Ravenna network" and Ravenna as a protocol is very demanding of the network and the B-side can't cope with that. This why ferenc is connecting both the streaming PC and Hapi on the A-side. So can't cross the moat. Would be very interested in discussing with Hapi users who are crossing the moat.

 

15 hours ago, Superdad said:

Sorry to hear that Horacio.  The day after yours shipped to the US address you gave, we shipped to someone else who is also in Argentina. His was delivered to his door via FedEx in less than a week. We charge just $34 for that fast worldwide service. And FedEx is still delivering in your country now.

 

 

Interesting answer. I was just feeling sorry of myself for how things turned out. You delivered as promised and there's no grief on my end. I know why I decided the way I did, and faced with the same scenario I had at the time of deciding I would choose the same. I hope you don't really think it was to save $34...

[bailyhill]

On 3/21/2020 at 2:02 PM, octaviars said:

 

Older HD Plex only had three windings on the transformer so two outputs shared the -0V (12 and 19V). The latest 200W model have four seperate windings on the transformer so all outputs have seperated -0V.

 

I use the latest HD Plex 200W and run the 12V rail to my etherREGEN. As I only use one RJ45 on the A-side (fiber input from router) to my server I have tried both with and without grounded -0V but cant say that I hear any difference. 

 

Just this week got an email from HD Plex, introducing their 300W model with even more improvements.  They will be offering it soon, but no date given.  I am going to order one myself.  It will replace the ZERO Zone units I bought as a stopgap.  I can always use anouther 12 vdc supply.  Not sure what I will do with the 19v one for my Nucleus+.

[Superdad]

2 hours ago, LewinskiH01 said:

Interesting answer. I was just feeling sorry of myself for how things turned out. You delivered as promised and there's no grief on my end. I know why I decided the way I did, and faced with the same scenario I had at the time of deciding I would choose the same. I hope you don't really think it was to save $34...

Sorry, no offense meant.  I wrote that mostly as a reminder to people that we offer reasonable and trouble-free door-to-door FedEx shipping worldwide—even to countries where importing can sometimes be difficult.

[Jeff Mann]

I have ordered an EtherREGEN to use with the following headphone-based audio system.

 

Euphony PTS music server => Wyred-4-Sound 2v2se 10th Anniversary Limited Edition DAC => Niimbus US4+ headphone amplifier => Susvara headphones.

 

I am using a USB cable to connect the Euphony PTS unit to my DAC and I have a W4S Recovery Unit (reclocker) between the music server and my DAC. Should I still keep that reclocker in place when I use the EtherREGEN upstream from my music server? Are there potential advantages/disadvantages?

 

Jeff.

[Superdad]

17 minutes ago, Jeff Mann said:

I am using a USB cable to connect the Euphony PTS unit to my DAC and I have a W4S Recovery Unit (reclocker) between the music server and my DAC. Should I still keep that reclocker in place when I use the EtherREGEN upstream from my music server? Are there potential advantages/disadvantages?

Hi Jeff:

Thank you again for your order!

If you enjoy your W4S Recovery in the chain now there is no need to remove it. The one consideration I can think of is with in regards to what power supply you are using for the Recovery unit. If it is their stock wall-wart or some other supply not shared with anything else then that is fine. You just don’t want to be powering it with a supply having -VE/0-volt (“ground”) outputs common to anything upstream (on the ‘A’ side) or the EtherREGEN, as doing so would defeat our special isolation moat.

[Jeff Mann]

1 hour ago, Superdad said:

Hi Jeff:

Thank you again for your order!

If you enjoy your W4S Recovery in the chain now there is no need to remove it. The one consideration I can think of is with in regards to what power supply you are using for the Recovery unit. If it is their stock wall-wart or some other supply not shared with anything else then that is fine. You just don’t want to be powering it with a supply having -VE/0-volt (“ground”) outputs common to anything upstream (on the ‘A’ side) or the EtherREGEN, as doing so would defeat our special isolation moat.

 

Thank you for your prompt response. I am powering the W4S Recovery with a Keces P3 LPS and I am also using my Keces P3 to power my Euphony PTS music server. I presume that is still OK if I power the EtherREGEN with your stock power supply unit. If not, I could use the W4S Recovery unit's own power supply. Could I then use the Keces P3 unit to power the Euphony PTS music server and your EtherREGEN unit or should I preferably power the EthereREGEN unit with its own stock power supply and only use the Keces P3 unit to power the Euphony PTS server?

 

Jeff.

[GryphonGuy]

11 hours ago, LewinskiH01 said:

 

My understanding (through my questions to users) is one needs to establish a "Ravenna network" and Ravenna as a protocol is very demanding of the network and the B-side can't cope with that. This why ferenc is connecting both the streaming PC and Hapi on the A-side. So can't cross the moat. Would be very interested in discussing with Hapi users who are crossing the moat.

 

 

Interesting answer. I was just feeling sorry of myself for how things turned out. You delivered as promised and there's no grief on my end. I know why I decided the way I did, and faced with the same scenario I had at the time of deciding I would choose the same. I hope you don't really think it was to save $34...

 

Ravenna appears to be a similar AOIP protocol to Dante and I use Dante across the moat on ER very successfully. The biggest issue I have is that after every windows update, windows somehow turns on network throttling which i then need to turn off to allow Dante to operate glitch free. The only way i know that network throttling is in use is that 192kHz signals played back on Roon sometimes stutters if I do ANYTHING on my PC that requires a network packet. I then run a special utility in Dante have Dante tell me the problem and then have it turn network throttling off, reboot my PC and all is well again until the next windows update.

 

Maybe something similar is happening with your Ravenna network protocols? Unfortunately I don't know how to permanently turn off network throttling but the Dante software identifies it and does it for me.

 

Regards

GG

[Superdad]

6 hours ago, Jeff Mann said:

I am powering the W4S Recovery with a Keces P3 LPS and I am also using my Keces P3 to power my Euphony PTS music server.

Well since your Euphony PTS and the W4S USB Recovery are both on the 'B' side of the EtherREGEN, you would not be defeating the EtherREGEN's isolation even if the Keces P3 (powering PTS and Recovery) outputs had common -VE/0-volt "grounds" (which I don't recall they do).

 

6 hours ago, Jeff Mann said:

I presume that is still OK if I power the EtherREGEN with your stock power supply unit.

Of course that is fine.

 

6 hours ago, Jeff Mann said:

If not, I could use the W4S Recovery unit's own power supply.

That is probably not advisable for several reasons.

 

6 hours ago, Jeff Mann said:

Could I then use the Keces P3 unit to power the Euphony PTS music server and your EtherREGEN unit or should I preferably power the EthereREGEN unit with its own stock power supply and only use the Keces P3 unit to power the Euphony PTS server?

Our advise is to just enjoy your set up as is. 

[ogs]

7 hours ago, GryphonGuy said:

 

Ravenna appears to be a similar AOIP protocol to Dante and I use Dante across the moat on ER very successfully. The biggest issue I have is that after every windows update, windows somehow turns on network throttling which i then need to turn off to allow Dante to operate glitch free. The only way i know that network throttling is in use is that 192kHz signals played back on Roon sometimes stutters if I do ANYTHING on my PC that requires a network packet. I then run a special utility in Dante have Dante tell me the problem and then have it turn network throttling off, reboot my PC and all is well again until the next windows update.

 

Maybe something similar is happening with your Ravenna network protocols? Unfortunately I don't know how to permanently turn off network throttling but the Dante software identifies it and does it for me.

 

Regards

GG

Your network speed observations are correct. Dante, as you experience yourself, works on 100baseT  and Gigabit speed. Audinate has specs for Dante hardware on their web site that confirms this.

 

For Ravenna this is the theory. From the ravenna-network.com web:

 

"Network infrastructure - since RAVENNA is based on IP, virtually any network infrastructure supporting IP transport can be used. Thus, transport speed and latency numbers scale directly with the performance parameters of the underlying network infrastructure. Although Fast Ethernet is supported, the use of Gigabit Ethernet (at least for the backbone links) is recommended. As faster network technologies get available, RAVENNA can gain direct advantage from them."

 

If the Ravenna hardware in question does not work on 100baseT it might simply be because the network interface (chip) does not support Fast Ethernet. Not unusual these days.

[LewinskiH01]

22 hours ago, GryphonGuy said:

 

Ravenna appears to be a similar AOIP protocol to Dante and I use Dante across the moat on ER very successfully. The biggest issue I have is that after every windows update, windows somehow turns on network throttling which i then need to turn off to allow Dante to operate glitch free. The only way i know that network throttling is in use is that 192kHz signals played back on Roon sometimes stutters if I do ANYTHING on my PC that requires a network packet. I then run a special utility in Dante have Dante tell me the problem and then have it turn network throttling off, reboot my PC and all is well again until the next windows update.

 

Maybe something similar is happening with your Ravenna network protocols? Unfortunately I don't know how to permanently turn off network throttling but the Dante software identifies it and does it for me.

 

Regards

GG

 

Thanks for chiming in. I don't yet have the Ravenna card, but I'm considering the Merging Hapi for multichannel and been looking for eR+Hapi users, and I have only found one who, despite doing on 2 channel, said the 100Mbps port didn't work. From your comment I'm guessing that even a Dante card doing 8 channels at 192kHz would have trouble. let alone if doing DSD, which is something I consider down the road with Hapi.

 

cheers!