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UpTone Audio EtherREGEN Listening Impressions

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Point taken.  Will continue to use the PS that came with the ER.  Very happy with the sound.  I might look at purchasing one of your LPS after I hear more reviews come in about upgrading the PS. 

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10 minutes ago, ogs said:

Your report is the first I've seen on the ER+Devialet Expert.

 

Really?  @Dutch--who is the prolific Antoine on the Devialet forrum (where I think I have seen your posts)--wrote:

https://devialetchat.com/Thread-Audiophile-Grade-Ethernet-Switches-The-new-generation?pid=88590#pid88590

and

His system is with Devialet 250 Expert.

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13 minutes ago, Superdad said:

His system is with Devialet 250 Expert.

Yes, but Antoine is not using the ethernet port of the 250. His ER is connected in front of a AudioLinux box. @desert38 connects his ER directly to the Devialet.

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@Superdad, All true however Ogs was curious about the ER directly plugged in to the Devialet ethernet input where in my chain there’s a Mutec MC3+ USB DDC and I connect that to the AES/EBU input of my Devialet. See also the system topology picture in the post you linked to. :)

 

Low on my virtual ‘to do’ list there’s the test of a shortened chain and connect the ER directly to the Devialet but then I’ll also have to rely on Devialet’s implementation of Roon RAAT (or their implementation of other protocols like upnp or airplay) which is not as reliable as RAAT is otherwise (or at least this is the case for some users and Devialet doesn’t seem able to tackle the issue).

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@Confused I actually liked your post, having went to the other forum to read it. I too share your healthy skepticism, particularly with UpTone products-_-, but in the end purchasing one says it all. I ordered mine for the Jan batch.

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50 minutes ago, k-man said:

@Confused I actually liked your post, having went to the other forum to read it. I too share your healthy skepticism, particularly with UpTone products-_-, but in the end purchasing one says it all. I ordered mine for the Jan batch.

 

Now he tells me .....🙄 

 

Although as it happens, I am too naturally skeptical (and cynical), not about UpTone, but about pretty much everything in life.

 

Joking apart, some of my Devialet Chat post was phrased in a way that genuinely did not reflect what I was trying to say, so personally, I am happy it is forever gone....

 


Windows 10 PC, Roon, HQPlayer, SOtM sMS-200Ultra, tX-USBultra, Paul Hynes SR4 (x2), Mutec REF10, Mutec MC3+USB, Devialet 1000Pro, KEF Blade.  Plus Pro-Ject Signature 12 TT for playing my 'legacy' vinyl collection.

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16 minutes ago, mikeg said:

This is a question for Superdad.  Can my JS-2 power my ER and my QNAP TS-251+ NAS drive?

Yes, a JS-2 should quite easily power both your QNAP TS-251+ and the EtherREGEN.  Set both JS-2 outputs to 12V please.

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7 minutes ago, Superdad said:

Yes, a JS-2 should quite easily power both your QNAP TS-251+ and the EtherREGEN.  Set both JS-2 outputs to 12V please.

When powering device connecting to A side of EtherREGEN and EtherREGEN itself with JS-2, will the "common" ground for both outputs create ill effect such as leakage current?

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1 hour ago, elan120 said:

When powering device connecting to A side of EtherREGEN and EtherREGEN itself with JS-2, will the "common" ground for both outputs create ill effect such as leakage current?

 

No, it won't.  First off, as a linear PS the JS-2 puts out very little leakage of its own. So powering his NAS or computer will hopefully result in lower leakage from its Ethernet cable.

 

Secondly, power to the EtherREGEN is to the 'A'-side ('B' side gets its power passed through isolating converter with just 2pf of capacitance), so almost nothing makes it across the moat.

 

The only remaining question is if, as the JS-2 outputs are "floated" from AC mains ground, it might be desirable to use the Ground screw of the EtherREGEN--to shunt any high-source impedance leakage which might be entering the 'A' side from some other RJ45 connection such as a router with SMPS.

 

Hope that all makes sense. Busy morning here getting out the last 50 December units to overseas second-batch buyers--3 days ahead of schedule. :)

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2 minutes ago, Superdad said:

 

No, it won't.  First off, as a linear PS the JS-2 puts out very little leakage of its own. So powering his NAS or computer will hopefully result in lower leakage from its Ethernet cable.

 

Secondly, power to the EtherREGEN is to the 'A'-side ('B' side gets its power passed through isolating converter with just 2pf of capacitance), so almost nothing makes it across the moat.

 

The only remaining question is if, as the JS-2 outputs are "floated" from AC mains ground, it might be desirable to use the Ground screw of the EtherREGEN--to shunt any high-source impedance leakage which might be entering the 'A' side from some other RJ45 connection such as a router with SMPS.

 

Hope that all makes sense. Busy morning here getting out the last 50 December units to overseas first-batch buyers--3 days ahead of schedule. :)

Sounds good, thank you for the quick and detailed information.  I will do some comparison between LPS-1.2 and JS-2 tonight when I get home.  I prefer having the ground screw wired, so the comparison will be based on this setup.

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well, here i am waiting for a january delivery with too much time on my hands so i went over to the now closed thread on ASR and THD+N measurements (very disappointing), but  it got me thinking about the limitations of sine wave, THD, etc.

 

we know that music is much more than a static sine wave.

 

do we know what, from the audio literature, what to measure that correlates with soundstage and depth and height and realism?

 

for one thing, i image that something that involves both stereo channels would be needed, so just for those of you lucky enough to have your eR and need something to post to this thread, how about something like the following:

 

play a good mono recording, with either one or two speakers, and report what you hear with the eR in/out.

 

cheers,

 

p.s.

for what its worth, i remember reading years ago that the ear is exquisitely sensitive to delay, way beyond the inverse of highest frequency

(e.g. 1/20khz)........and classical conductors were reported to be able to discriminate in tests between absurdly low level of audio delay, which suggests that very small correlations and/or errors in sound between channels are important.

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On 12/9/2019 at 10:06 AM, Superdad said:

No, it won't.  First off, as a linear PS the JS-2 puts out very little leakage of its own. So powering his NAS or computer will hopefully result in lower leakage from its Ethernet cable.

Secondly, power to the EtherREGEN is to the 'A'-side ('B' side gets its power passed through isolating converter with just 2pf of capacitance), so almost nothing makes it across the moat.

 

I assume the enclosure of the JS-2 is grounded Alex? So making a simple wire connection from ER ground screw to the JS-2 enclosure could be a quick test to see if shunting helps?


Roon server (Mac Mini/i7/SSD/16GB/Uptone DC mod/external SDD via firewire/Uptone Audio JS-2 LPS) Streamer dCS Network Bridge DAC Chord DAVE Amplifier / DRC Lyngdorf TDAI-3400 Speakers Lindemann BL-10 | JL audio E-sub e110 Cables CAT6 UTP ethernet, Transparent premium AES/EBU, Nordost Leif Red Dawn analog RCA, Kimber 8TC speaker cables, custom star-quad power cables with Oyaide termination Head-fi and reference Bakoon HPA-21 | Audeze LCD-3 (f) | Audio-technica ATH-M50 Software High Sierra | Roon | Tidal | Qobuz Power and isolation Dedicated power line | Xentek extreme isolation transformer (1KVA, 0.0001pf, balanced) | Vibex one 6R power distributor | Uptone EtherREGEN | Emo Systems EN-70HD network isolator | Jensen CI-1RR isolator

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22 minutes ago, skatbelt said:

I assume the enclosure of the JS-2 is grounded Alex?

It is, but there is the matter what screw of the JS-2 enclosure you would use as the chassis is anodized and while the screws are steel, the ones holding the cover are short and a special countersink. Putting a wire under them could be tricky and likely to scratch the lovely case finish. And if you pick one of the other underside stainless steel hex-head screws, you need to be mindful as some are short PCB screws, and the larger ones are for the transformer and you could have trouble retightening them from only one side.

I'd really rather people not mess with JS-2 screws. You must have many other good grounds in your system. 9_9

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On 12/9/2019 at 10:06 AM, Superdad said:

No, it won't.  First off, as a linear PS the JS-2 puts out very little leakage of its own. So powering his NAS or computer will hopefully result in lower leakage from its Ethernet cable.

Alex, 

Is there any harm in grounding the ER regardless of the circumstances?


[ AERIS G2 ] => [ MC3+USB x 3 <- -REF10 ] => [ Genelec 8341 x 2 + 7360 x 2 ]

[ Switchable to  [ Genelec 8331 x 2 + 7350 ]

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My ER arrived on Saturday and it has been running in my system since Saturday night on Roon radio.  Very nice surprise by Alex with the early delivery 😄.  I plan to sit down for some critical listening this weekend.  I was able to spend a little time on Sunday evening listing to Qobuz streaming and a couple local files via Roon.  What struck me out of the box was the micro-detail on tracks that I know pretty well.  They sounded more "intimate" and "present in the room" if that makes sense.  Imaging and placement was more defined.  So far, I'm very impressed.  More to follow this weekend.

 

My system:

iMac/Roon > ER > UltraRendu > Schiit Gungnir Multibit DAC > LTA MicroZOTL tube preamp > LTA UltraLinear tube amp > Spatial Audio X2 Modular speakers

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Hello Cat6man

 

Your comment about the ear being much more sensitive to time delay than 1/20Khz is consistent with several AES papers I have

read, they claim that a reasonable number is 5 usecs.  1/20Khz = 50 usecs.  And they claim it does not depend so much on your hearing response to tones like the standard hearing tests.  You can have excellent time discrimination even if you are older and have rolled off response according to what I have read.  

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Ok, couple of weeks in (3 and over a week since I applied the V2 firmware) and I am noticing so much more detail on every track. The detail was there before, as the same recordings/files, but now it is just there - is it that the noise floor has dropped so making the fine details more audible or is the signal timing more accurate allowing the micro-detail to come into better focus. It is equivalent to a source upgrade, a better cartridge, next gen DAC technology etc. Whatever it is and why, it is excellent, thank you.

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23 hours ago, Superdad said:

It is, but there is the matter what screw of the JS-2 enclosure you would use as the chassis is anodized and while the screws are steel, the ones holding the cover are short and a special countersink. Putting a wire under them could be tricky and likely to scratch the lovely case finish. And if you pick one of the other underside stainless steel hex-head screws, you need to be mindful as some are short PCB screws, and the larger ones are for the transformer and you could have trouble retightening them from only one side.

I'd really rather people not mess with JS-2 screws. You must have many other good grounds in your system. 9_9

 

Well I was naughty. Just for experimental purposes. And before you ask, yes, there was continuity. Outcome: shunting is a must when powering both the ER and something connected to the A-side - in my case a Mac mini - from a JS-2. At least when you have copper input from an ISP router or any other component in your home network to the A-side as well.

 

What puzzles me is this: while shunting closed the gap a bit, I still only get stellar performance when I keep the Emo systems network isolator between the Mac mini and the ER. I was so hoping this would not be the case. That - if grounding was dealt with correctly - network related changes on the A-side would not affect what comes out on the B-side...

shunt.jpg


Roon server (Mac Mini/i7/SSD/16GB/Uptone DC mod/external SDD via firewire/Uptone Audio JS-2 LPS) Streamer dCS Network Bridge DAC Chord DAVE Amplifier / DRC Lyngdorf TDAI-3400 Speakers Lindemann BL-10 | JL audio E-sub e110 Cables CAT6 UTP ethernet, Transparent premium AES/EBU, Nordost Leif Red Dawn analog RCA, Kimber 8TC speaker cables, custom star-quad power cables with Oyaide termination Head-fi and reference Bakoon HPA-21 | Audeze LCD-3 (f) | Audio-technica ATH-M50 Software High Sierra | Roon | Tidal | Qobuz Power and isolation Dedicated power line | Xentek extreme isolation transformer (1KVA, 0.0001pf, balanced) | Vibex one 6R power distributor | Uptone EtherREGEN | Emo Systems EN-70HD network isolator | Jensen CI-1RR isolator

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18 hours ago, Superdad said:

It is, but there is the matter what screw of the JS-2 enclosure you would use as the chassis is anodized and while the screws are steel, the ones holding the cover are short and a special countersink. Putting a wire under them could be tricky and likely to scratch the lovely case finish. And if you pick one of the other underside stainless steel hex-head screws, you need to be mindful as some are short PCB screws, and the larger ones are for the transformer and you could have trouble retightening them from only one side.

I'd really rather people not mess with JS-2 screws. You must have many other good grounds in your system. 9_9

Alex, I so appreciate the time and value you add to this forum.  Not many manufacturers would go the extra mile like Uptone Audio.  

 

Wouldn't a good system ground for the ER ground screw be the SR Active Grounding Block given that in my audio system I have all components and cables grounded to it?


Reviewer

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13 minutes ago, mikeg said:

Alex, I so appreciate the time and value you add to this forum.  Not many manufacturers would go the extra mile like Uptone Audio.

Thanks. We try our best.

 

13 minutes ago, mikeg said:

Wouldn't a good system ground for the ER ground screw be the SR Active Grounding Block given that in my audio system I have all components and cables grounded to it?

 

It could be, but remember, the goal of grounding with the EtherREGEN is not at all related to having common ground with your other audio components. It is about shunting—to mains ground—any residual high-source-impedance leakage currents (coming into the ‘A’-side RJ45 ports from other gear) that our 12-core per port magnetics don’t already block.

 

I have no idea how a Synergistic Research Active Grounding Block works, but if it increases impeadance to real mains ground then it would be a less-than-ideal choice for grounding the EtherREGEN. Feel free to experiment.

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On 12/9/2019 at 11:13 AM, cat6man said:

for what its worth, i remember reading years ago that the ear is exquisitely sensitive to delay, way beyond the inverse of highest frequency

(e.g. 1/20khz)........and classical conductors were reported to be able to discriminate in tests between absurdly low level of audio delay, which suggests that very small correlations and/or errors in sound between channels are important.


Exactly, Rob Watts the designer of the Chord DACs, believes we are more sensitive than that and attributes part of the success of his upscaling products to providing 1.3us accuracy.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/hugo-m-scaler-by-chord-electronics-the-official-thread.885042/page-503#post-15076324

 

And what characterises his products? Clean accurate soundstage with delicate reverb and transients. The descriptions I hear of the EtherRegen are remarkably similar to the benefits of Chord products. He is often quoted as saying high sampling rate is mostly about transient accuracy and resultant reverb and soundstage as opposed to frequency response.

 

And would microsecond precision between channels be shown in those gross low resolution charts over at ARS? Of course not.


So my opinion is that part of what the EtherRegen does is removes noise or influences that affect timing of the reproduced analog signal downstream.

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