UpTone Audio EtherREGEN Listening Impressions

[Jud]

My wife picked up the ER in the mail yesterday, but I spent most of yesterday and early this morning in bed with a reaction to the new shingles vaccine I received Friday, so I haven’t had a chance to hook it up yet. (Hey, I’ll take a day in bed over a case of shingles any time.) So these listening impressions are from the beta version. All purely subjective.

 

My system before ER: From my router, Ethernet cable to a Cisco switch; optical Ethernet to a second Cisco switch; Ethernet cable to microRendu to IsoREGEN to DAC. The Cisco switches are powered by internal SMPSs.

 

I compared one Cisco switch feeding the ER via optical to replacing both Cisco switches and feeding the ER via Ethernet cable from the router. I liked the latter better. Perhaps it has something to do with the non-grounded SMPS in the Cisco vs. the grounded SMPS for the ER. (Speaking of grounding, I'm not using the grounding knob on the ER.)

 

- The thing I immediately noticed with the ER was greater solidity of images. Vocals and instruments seemed more stably fixed in space.

 

- Initially vs. the Ciscos there was less "air" around vocalists and instruments. However, after about 10-20 hours the sound with the ER seemed to open up.

 

- Something that may be a little hard for me to explain, but I'll try: The sounds of instruments seemed to be more "integrated." The pluck of an acoustic guitar string and the note from the string, for example, were all part of the same sound rather than separate from each other. This made instruments sound more real to me, because that's how I hear it when I listen to someone playing an acoustic guitar in front of me.

 

Hopefully today I'll get a chance to start listening to the production version.

[Jud]

I've now hooked up the production model and had a brief listen. This reminded me of some other things I noticed about the ER:

 

- Bass seems less muddy. Notes instead of rumble on some tracks with low bass. Multiple instruments and/or vocals seem less congested.

 

- On the bass end, the combination of image solidity, the more "integrated" instrumental sound, and less muddiness combine for greater low end impact.

 

- At the high end, more "integrated" instrumental sound, greater image solidity and less congestion translate to a sense of overall clarity and less harshness.

[Jud]

11 hours ago, emailists said:

I found myself turning up the system louder than usual.  I normally tend to manage volume of playback of this track due to hardness or any  amusicality .   The horn blasts with ER in the system took on a whole different character.  Instead of hearing a steely brat of sonic chunk, what I was left with was the metallic bite of the horns.  They had a similar spectral footprint but without what I can best describe as a haze. 

 

This is exactly the sort of thing I'm hearing, what I described as a relief of congested sound and greater clarity and openness at the high end. It's as if some of the high end of multiple instruments playing was just floating around and giving a subjective impression of harshness; but now with the ER you can say "Yep, here are the trumpets," and it seems quite natural and live.

[Jud]

37 minutes ago, Iving said:

Since all networks are noisy (= none are perfectly noise free) - and the EtherREGEN is ostensibly a noise-mitigation device - it should carry us further across that allegoric river in all network circumstances.

 

So the ER is an allegorical paddle, eh?  😉

[Jud]

41 minutes ago, Iving said:

(After all, how often do we change our amps and speakers.)

 

I kept the same downstream chain (microRendu, DAC, amplification, speakers) and am happier with the overall result now. I think you will be pleased. I know I was skeptical of the idea and (though I like Alex and John's designs), was not prepared for it to have the overall impact that I feel it has in my system.

[Jud]

To aid with listening impressions, may I suggest for those with Qobuz to do a before and after ER with the bass on "Come What May," and the bass and cello on "Ruby Tuesday," both from the Colvin & Earle album.

[Jud]

6 hours ago, Mike Rubin said:

It sounds as though Jud tried but abandoned using the optical port as the downstream one for sound quality reasons.  Is anyone else connecting a device through an SFP module and, if so, how are you feeling about the ER in that application?  I ask because I have an optical rendu now connected to the network with a Sonore optical module that I would switch to another system if the ER is an upgrade of the magnitude this thread suggests it is.

 

Upstream - Copper Ethernet from router feeding Cisco, then Cisco via optical to EtherREGEN. I liked copper Ethernet from router directly to EtherREGEN better. My speculation is that this was due to the Cisco's SMPS putting noise back into the wall and the system. Someone who owned a device with an optical Ethernet output that you could power from a good quality low electrical noise low leakage current power supply (LPS-1.2 for example) might have a very different experience.

[Jud]

6 hours ago, stevebythebay said:

I’ve just begun listening to the same piece played by different pianists in solo just to capture their style and how the recordings were miked and engineered.  Already very revealing.

 

Yes, this is the sort of thing I feel the ER makes more possible, or easier, depending on where your system was before.

[Jud]

The tones of cellos are so gorgeous with the ER in the system I could listen to Bach cello suites all day long.

[Jud]

Back to the many-splendored pleasures of ER and music to enjoy them with, as I occasionally listen during shuffle play/burn-in:

 

I like Iron & Wine (the name Sam Beam records under) and his album Beast Epic. The last song on that album, Our Light Miles, I’ve always thought of as just a sort of little throwaway outro. Last night it was jaw-dropping - Sam Beam right there in the room, emotionally stunning. Please do check it out if you have a chance, particularly purchase or Qobuz.

 

Edit/P.S.: Because I’d paid relatively little attention to that song when listening to the album, I didn’t even recognize it. I knew it was Iron & Wine, but before I looked I was thinking “What is *that*?! What album is it on?”

[Jud]

20 minutes ago, pkane2001 said:

 

I guess you have to be on the other side to see the irony of this statement, Alex. What distinguishes scientific curiosity is the method of validating the proposed theories, not the invention of new ones. An 11th century court magician would say that the 21st century scientists lack "intellectual curiosity" since they refuse to try magic.

 

I'm available to respond to follow-ups on ASR, or on another general thread here, on AS since this is OT here.

Apologies for continuing the OT, and Alex may have to clean all this up or move it:

 

Paul, I think it was fair comment in this particular instance based on the quote that said it was unnecessary to inquire into the design or theory of operation or measure.

 

Whether a design is obvious snake oil (cables treated by “quantum tunneling;” “grounding boxes” filled with sand and rocks) or merits at least some evaluation is to some extent inevitably subjective. I put a theory that says there is a mechanism whereby upstream clocking can act on the DAC’s input circuitry in the speculative but perhaps not physically impossible category, and thus worth abeyance of hard conclusions until measurements are forthcoming or not.

[Jud]

A lot of moments of “Wow, what *is* this? Have I heard it before?”

 

I have Bring It On Home - The Soul Classics, by Aaron Neville. I always considered it a minor album of his, not especially well recorded. Rainy Night In Georgia from that album just finished playing, and I felt as if I were bathed in his voice. How wonderful.

[Jud]

4 hours ago, Ricardo007 said:

Hello Jud

It would be interesting to use etherregen after the 2 cisco switches and see how it compares with ER directly attached to router. Since some users report upstream still matters or even more

If the Ciscos were going to improve things, I think one with the optical Ethernet output to the ER should have done it. If one Cisco sounded worse due to adding its SMPS to the circuit, as I speculated, then two Ciscos ought to sound worse yet than that.

[Jud]

Just heard Morphine’s “Like A Mirror.” Percussion and vocals ungodly real and present.

[Jud]

Jesu. Jamestown Revival’s redo of the Mamas and Papas’ California Dreamin’, a bit disappointing before, was as great as hearing them in concert last month. Harmony vocals perfectly placed. Followed by Cat Power’s Manhattan, formerly a little complex and messy in its production, now spacious with room for everything in the mix. (Yes, there are still less than great sounding mixes and songs. ER doesn’t make everything sound the same.)

 

I better stop breaking this thing in, because if it gets any better, half my music collection is going to leave me an emotional puddle on the floor.

[Jud]

3 minutes ago, EVOLVIST said:

 

Are you saying that your system didn't ungodly real before?

In all seriousness, no. Things just have more impact, musical and emotional. And I don’t have the volume turned up - my wife’s in bed.

[Jud]

5 hours ago, Cable Monkey said:

Are we getting carried away here? I see improvements in a system as being cumulative, so talk of reducing quality or effort elsewhere in your systems is probably misplaced in my view.

Perhaps we could fairly be accused of getting carried away. 🙂 These are subjective reports, and I'd be the first to say I don't hold those out as something others should rely upon. But last night was as satisfying and enjoyable an evening of listening to recorded music as I can remember.

 

As far as the ER possibly changing where expenditures might be made to improve a system, that's a decision people must and will make for themselves. My own choice was simply whether or not to purchase after having heard it. Before testing I was skeptical of an effect sufficiently significant to make it worth the price. Now (understanding this is purely on a subjective basis) there's no way I'd part with it.

[Jud]

2 hours ago, Iving said:

Going back to listen after 24 hours cooking overnight, the first thing I noticed was a silkiness - then astonishing detail.

 

Something was not quite right - and I found that I had to re-"trial-and-error" my shunts to balance the sound again. What I am saying (in line with recent posts) is that the EtherREGEN seems to change the audiophile rulebook somewhat. I wouldn't have expected to have had to change shunts in my system accompanying inclusion of the ER.

 

Another unexpected finding: I think, but am not sure yet, that whereas, prior to ER, inclusion of a Cisco switch between my PC and RedNet D16 AES improved SQ, and I assumed that it would remain - as in PC > Cisco > ER > D16 AES > DAC, today I think I prefer SQ without the Cisco. The ER seems encumbered by it. It's as if the ER is unleashed when the Cisco is removed: PC > ER > D16 AES > DAC.

 

Confounded with trying out such permutations is cable use. I can't reconfigure my shielded AQs willy nilly. I am no longer convinced (as I assumed I would be) that these are better than "cheapos" and need to do more listening to be sure. Another rulebook question mark.

 

Another "anomaly" - I need less (pre-amp) volume to listen with satisfaction - but the system will sound correct at much higher (pre-amp) volumes than before.

 

I can imagine that "upstream factors matter less and downstream more" - and that our spending decisions will be affected accordingly. Another rulebook vagary. (omg did I find myself thinking about "hearing" my power amps)

 

I am listening to PC > ER > D16 AES > DAC now and the SQ is phenomenal. Deep, open, clean, detailed. I was impressed immediately as I posted yesterday. Today better. When I have finished trying things out, and the ER is more or less fully roasted, I'm sure I shall be very happy and just want to listen to music a great deal more.

 

This is one hell of an audiophile bang-for-buck. Am I the first to be brave enough to suggest that the EtherREGEN is significantly under-priced? (Easy for me to say being a first batch beneficiary 🙂)

 

I agree right down the line with everything you've said here.

[Jud]

By the way - for folks on other forums or this one who don't have an ER and wondering whether we've all gone crazy 😊 :

 

I don't feel the sound of the system with the ER is completely changed, or even that the quantitative difference is so huge. What I do think is that the improvements that have been made, while perhaps quantitatively small, have increased my qualitative enjoyment tremendously. Being able to hear subtleties from vocalists and instrumentalists just that little bit better creates a lot more emotional impact for me.

[Jud]

16 minutes ago, MikePid said:

My expectations are so high now that unless I can see the beads of sweat on the faces during live performances and the colors of the clothes of the musicians on the holograms in my listening room, I’ll certainly be disappointed with the ER 😉🤣

 

Odd you should mention that, because I literally find myself picturing vocalists, for instance, much more frequently now! 😀

[Jud]

1 hour ago, Iving said:

No tweaking for a while.

Yep, that’s how I feel too.

[Jud]

More stuff to listen to with the ER:
 

Sean Rowe, The Drive, from the album Madman. 

 

Leonard Cohen, Old Ideas, especially Amen, where the bass is a physical thing.

 

Edit: And you might also try Juniper Arms, from Adam Torres’ Pearls to Swine album.

[Jud]

1 hour ago, OldBigEars said:

 

 

@Jud I'm especially interested in your findings as (like me) you use a microRendu 1.4, and apparently haven't felt the crushing need to replace it with Ultra or Optical yet.  I've been thinking about upgrading my microRendu 1.4 to one of the costlier Rendu variants but am somewhat dubious about the difference it would make.  Sounds from your experience that putting in ER would be a more significant improvement. Would you agree?

1.3 actually. I heard the Signature Rendu SE with Optical Module sounding absolutely wonderful in the Sonore room at RMAF - thought it was one of the two best rooms in the entire show.

 

And after going into the beta tests of the ER with some skepticism, thinking perhaps if I heard a difference it would be very slight, it turns out to be a piece I wouldn't want to be without. It's something that as you've read here has really increased my enjoyment of my system. I'm very happy.

 

All this is to say I think these are pieces that would complement each other wonderfully - my apologies that I will be of very little help for people looking to choose between them.

[Jud]

Decades ago, Don Henley’s “Boys of Summer” was big on the radio. I was a bit frustrated because my high end system at the time, unlike a car radio, brought the backing up loud enough that Henley’s great vocals didn’t dominate. On a visit to my dealer I heard the song with a Spectral preamp in the system, and though the backing was clear, Henley’s vocals were too. Some time afterward I bought that preamp, and now have a Spectral amp as well.

 

I’ve felt similarly about “Southern Cross” by Crosby, Stills and Nash. Loved the song on the radio, but the vocals never quite came through the same way on a full range system. Today, with the ER in the system, they did. 🙂

[Jud]

All kinds of stuff sounding absolutely wonderful. Very hard to pick just one, but because it's got some bass and some warmth and not everyone's heard it: "CocoBlues" from Mbongwana Star's album "From Kinshasa." Check it out.