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UpTone Audio EtherREGEN Listening Impressions


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5 hours ago, hieukm said:

So @hols you are daisy chain ER and SOTM switch both clocked to Cybershaft OP20 and used between Router to server/render while another ER was in between the Router and NAS??

 

 

You are right that I daisy chained the SOtM switch and the ER both clocked to Cybershaft OP20  but it is used between the server HQPe and the endpoint NAA. Another ER was placed between Router and NAS without clocking because physical distance too far from Cybershaft.

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On 11/17/2019 at 9:31 AM, Superdad said:

 

Hi Hols:

Thank you for the diagram!  A few questions and comments if I may....

 

Questions:

1) What is this connection with dashed line you mark as “Bridged”?

2) Why is your Linux server being used—with two Ethernet ports—to make the connection from your router to the SOtM and UpTone switch?

2) What type of port do you use for the connection between the SOtM switch and the ‘A’ side port of the EtherREGEN?

3) What power supplies are you using for the SOtM switch, the Cybershaft clock, and the EtherREGEN? If you are using a JS-2 for one of those, what if anything is connected to the other output of the JS-2?

 

Comments:

a) It seems very unwise to have your server with two Ethernet ports and having it act as the connection (for all downstream equipment) to your router and the NAS.

b) With that second EtherREGEN between your NAS and your router—and with use of HQ Player Embedded (knowing what I do about how it draws data) you are creating a data bottleneck, as the 100Mbps ‘B’-side is not meant for that purpose. Plus, what really is the point to cleaning up from your NAS just to feed to your router? This application is really not what most people think of when they think of using more than one specialty switch for audio.

c) You are most likely defeating the EtherREGEN’s active differential isolation moat by using the same clock for both it and your SOtM switch—as the BNC shell of the EtherREGEN is common to its ‘B’-side power domain. There is also a good chance you are defeating the isolation via the power supplies as well.

 

Given all of the above I am not surprised that you sometimes get stuttering. And I also doubt that you are realizing the isolation moat benefits of the EtherREGEN.

 

I suggest you make the following changes to your network configuration—all at the same time:

a) Plug your SOtM switch directly into your router;

b) Remove the Ethernet connection between your Linux server and your router, leaving it connected only to the SOtM switch;

c) Plug your NAS directly into the SOtM switch, and set aside the second EtherREGEN for now;

d) For the moment, to assure effect of the EtherREGEN’s ADIM, connect the Cybershaft clock to only either the SOtM switch or the EtherREGEN—but not both at the same time.

e) Remove whatever that cable is—marked “bridge”—shown between the server and endpoint.

 

You may have some reasons for your diagramed configuration, but I think it is far from ideal, not how we intend the EtherREGEN be used, and that you will acheive much better results using my suggestions above.

We look forward to reading your answers to my first questions and also about what you hear when you make the recommended changes.

Best,

—Alex C.

Hi Alex,

It was a pity that you only announced a while ago that the connection difficulty that we faced is due to some firmware issue. I spent the past 2 days trying various methods but still cannot get the ER to sound properly. The stuttering just comes and goes but never goes away. Unlucky me -- futile 48 hours of work. Anyway I shall try to answer your questions and comments below.

 

Thank you for all the comments and suggestions. First I must say that the network diagram I posted is not exactly right. My fault.  I found it out just now. (I was in a hurry at that time when I made it ) Please see the amended network diagram attached which should help to answer some of questions. And my answer to your questions are listed below:

 

1) What is this connection with dashed line you mark as “Bridged”?

It does not exist. My poor drawing made it wrong.

 

2) Why is your Linux server being used—with two Ethernet ports—to make the connection from your router to the SOtM and UpTone switch?

By bridging the 2 ethernet ports it does not matter because the 2 Ethernet ports are regraded as one. And for SQ wise I have compared this configuration with your suggested configuration( Remove the Ethernet connection between your Linux server and your router, leaving it connected only to the SOtM switch)  many times before and I find my present configuration gives a better sound. 

 

2) What type of port do you use for the connection between the SOtM switch and the ‘A’ side port of the EtherREGEN?

    RJ 45 copper. I have tried to use single mode fibre SFP and it stutters then so I changed to use copper RJ45. As I have described before it also stutters for a while and then improves so RJ 45 is used. 

 

3) What power supplies are you using for the SOtM switch, the Cybershaft clock, and the EtherREGEN? If you are using a JS-2 for one of those, what if anything is connected to the other output of the JS-2?

The SOtM switch is supplied by Uptone LPS1.2 energized by Paul Pang LPS. Cybershaft comes with its own Linear power supply not shared with any others. ER is supplied by JS2. The other output of JS 2 is vacant.

 

a) It seems very unwise to have your server with two Ethernet ports and having it act as the connection (for all downstream equipment) to your router and the NAS.

already explained above because the 2 ports are bridged and SQ comparison is the best with this config

 

b) With that second EtherREGEN between your NAS and your router—and with use of HQ Player Embedded (knowing what I do about how it draws data) you are creating a data bottleneck, as the 100Mbps ‘B’-side is not meant for that purpose. Plus, what really is the point to cleaning up from your NAS just to feed to your router? This application is really not what most people think of when they think of using more than one specialty switch for audio.

I fully agree with you there is no theoretical basis for putting it there especially with the B side to the NAS. The reason I did this initially is because my NAS is located over another corner of my listening room with the modem & router. And my previous impression of using NAS is always not as good as local files in hard disc located in my server. And I have made many attempts to improve the sound from NAS and that is why I would experiment with the ER positioned there. Actually I have also tried connecting it to the A side but the SQ is not as good. And when it is connected to B side the sound becomes excellent. And the surprising question is why suddenly the sound is so good that night. Actually I have tried to do it again it stutters like mad. My best guess is that (1) I used a $1500 Ethernet cable(sorry I don't mean to introduce expensive ethernet cables into the picture, but it was what happened that night) (2)  Suddenly there was no stuttering that night and everything runs smooth. I just paused the HQplayer and added the ER and music just goes on and me and my friend can both got the great improvement in SQ. I failed the next day probably because I need to start the connections again and the stuttering prevented me from doing anything more. (3) A lot of AS members has expressed that 100Mbps gives better sound than 1000. Could it be that's the reason? Or now that we understand it is the EEE problem then maybe the reversed connection does not trigger the EEE. Purely guessing. 

 

c) You are most likely defeating the EtherREGEN’s active differential isolation moat by using the same clock for both it and your SOtM switch—as the BNC shell of the EtherREGEN is common to its ‘B’-side power domain. There is also a good chance you are defeating the isolation via the power supplies as well.

I understand that this is your main concern of not getting the benefit of the ER ADIM and also afraid that the clock connection would pollute your B side. I have checked my Cybershaft clock output receptacles with my multimeter. The 3 outputs are all independent of each other and also not connected to the chassis of the Cybershaft . There is no connection between the shield/ground of the BNC cable of one output to the other outputs. So this makes your worry not likely. As for the power pollution we have explained earlier there is no other gears connected to the JS2.

 

I suggest you make the following changes to your network configuration—all at the same time:

a) Plug your SOtM switch directly into your router;

b) Remove the Ethernet connection between your Linux server and your router, leaving it connected only to the SOtM switch;

c) Plug your NAS directly into the SOtM switch, and set aside the second EtherREGEN for now;

d) For the moment, to assure effect of the EtherREGEN’s ADIM, connect the Cybershaft clock to only either the SOtM switch or the EtherREGEN—but not both at the same time.

e) Remove whatever that cable is—marked “bridge”—shown between the server and endpoint.

I have moved my NAS to near my server and tried the above suggestion( which is basically one of the configurations I have tried months before). I have taken off the Cybershaft clock to both switches to make things more simple And there is no physical bridge between server and endpoint. And the result is all stuttering once the ER is added. There is no way one could hear anything meaningful. I have also tried to use the ER alone using all your standard recommendations including Uptone switching supply, no clock, but there is still stuttering. I have also tried to reduce the network speed to 100Mbps and the result is the same.  And then this morning when I woke up I found your announcement that we need to do a firmware update. I guess the number is more than the 6-8 you mentioned. there were already 3 ER amongst me and my friends that has stuttering going on. So anticipating for the firmware update this weekend so we can have another go for better SQ. Cheers.

network config.jpg

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