UpTone Audio EtherREGEN Listening Impressions

[wwc]

From Superdad:    

"I do not agree. The EtherREGEN is designed to isolate (typically on its 'B' side) the DAC-attached computer/streamer/renderer endpoint. Its benefits will be realized even if that DAC-attached endpoint is general purpose computer, Mac mini, laptop, NUC, whatever."

 

Thank you, @Superdad, for clarifying that point.   There is so much information bouncing around here that it can be difficult to know which end is up, down, or sideways.    

 

I am using a Server (Taiko Audio)  which has significantly addressed RFI. but I am planning to insert a Mac Mini in between the Taiko Server and the DAC.  (The Mini is necessary to run some Bacch software).   I'm hoping the Mini will not add too much of a noise signature.

 

My plan is: 

Copper ethernet > Cisco 2960 > Copper ethernet >  ERegen "B"side > ERegen Optical "A" side > Optical Taiko Server > usb  Mini >  usb DAC

[wwc]

There's a lot of talk about cooking the eR.   I sounds like most are experiencing changes with time.  Alex and John, is this what you expect with this tech in a switch?

 

And in cooking referring to simply powered up or actually running data through the eR into the dac?

[wwc]

1 hour ago, Iving said:

power up = toast

data throughput = welsh rarebit

 

Nicely put, Irving.   Being vegetarian, however, I might prefer the toast.🤓

[wwc]

My preliminary impressions:

 

After 60+ hours of cooking, I started A/B listening, with the assistance of a friend who has excellent and disciplined listening skills.  I switched the eR in and out, while my friend listened without knowing what the new component was, or whether it was connected or not.  We listening to three tracks of varied music repeating the A/B multiple times for each.

 

The setup:  Fiber > Modem w/lpsu > copper > Cisco 2960 switch > AudioQuest Diamond ethernet > Gigafoil optical isolator > more AQ ethernet > eR switch > more AQ cable ethernet cable > Taiko Extreme Server > Intona usb > Lampizator Dac w/300b tubes > Luxman 300b tube amp > Avantgarde Duo Mezzo XD speakers.

 

After about an hour of listening we concluded that any differences we thought we heard were so subtle and inconsistent as to be meaningless.   This makes me only the 2nd person on this thread not to report overwhelmingly positive results from the eR.

 

However, I later made a change by replacing the ethernet cable between the eR and Server with fiber optic.   My first impression, which I'll confirm or not tomorrow, was a significant uptick in resolution and a tonality shift toward treble. This was a mixed bag with the increased resolution adding more air and clarity but with a loss in bass and weight.  I compensated, at least with partial success, by raising the the bass gain level on the speakers dsp from my typical +6 to +12.

 

  I don't know at this point what to conclude from this.  

    Questions that come to mind are:

 

-- Does the noise mitigation already implemented in my system make the eR redundant?  That is, the Gigafoil fiber/optic isolator and the Taiko Server.  (However, Emile of Taiko, reports a positive change from the eR in his system.) 

 

-- Is the fiber from eR to Server enhancing the eR's effects?   My first impression is that it could be over-enhancing!

 

I'd like to listen to fiber from the Cisco straight to Server, but the sfp modules I have don't seem to work in the Cisco.

 

So, my conclusion at the moment is:

 

-- any effect of the eR via copper, may be having on the Dac output is subtle at most.

 

-- the fiber optic from eR to Server makes a very large change but may not be a fully positive one.   And I don't know yet if it's a synergism with the eR or just the fiber optic alone.

 

 

[wwc]

35 minutes ago, Nenon said:

 

Interesting report and very impressive system. Thank you for sharing. 

 

I am wondering if you really need the Cisco 2960 switch and the Gigafoil optical isolator. Perhaps you could try simplifying things by going from:

Fiber > Modem w/lpsu > copper > Cisco 2960 switch > AudioQuest Diamond ethernet > Gigafoil optical isolator > more AQ ethernet > eR switch > more AQ cable ethernet cable > Taiko Extreme Server > Intona usb > Lampizator Dac w/300b tubes > Luxman 300b tube amp > Avantgarde Duo Mezzo XD speakers

 

to:

Fiber > Modem w/lpsu > copper > AQ ethernet > eR switch > AQ cable ethernet cable > Taiko Extreme Server > Intona usb > Lampizator Dac w/300b tubes > Luxman 300b tube amp > Avantgarde Duo Mezzo XD speakers

(assuming your modem has wifi or extra ports; otherwise you may need to leave the Cisco 2960, but in any case try removing the Gigafoil)

 

As far as I have heard, the Taiko Extreme performs better over fiber, so perhaps it would be better to connect the Taiko to the A-side fiber port on the EtherREGEN and the B-side to your modem. 

 

Also, were you streaming Tidal/Qobuz or playing local files?

With so much network isolation in your network, and such a good server, I can see how playing local files may not have a noticeable difference. You have fiber Internet to begin with. My Internet comes through a coaxial cable that wires the entire city of Chicago. Yes, they install a small isolator, but I am sure that poor little cheap thing does not do much, and I get a lot of noise through my Internet provider. And then you have a Gigafoil isolator on top of that. So your network noise isolation is top notch. You can mainly benefit from the quality recklocking in the EtherREGEN, but that would only apply to music you stream over your ethernet connection. 

 

I would try with removing the Cisco 2960 and the Gigafoil, connecting the Extreme to the A-side fiber port, the Modem to the B-side, and most importantly stream music from Qobuz or Tidal. Please let us know if you do that. Your system must be very resolving, and we would really like to hear more from people like you. 

 

 

 

Thanks, Nenon,  

 

I can't remove the second switch (the Cisco) because the eR doesn't have enough ports for other connections I need (and I purposefully have kept wifi out of my space).   If I can make the eR work for me, I thought I might try a 2nd one to replace the Cisco.

 

   I will definitely try tomorrow with the Gigafoil removed.

 

As far as the Taiko Server and fiber, Emile (of Taiko) has recommended fiber feeding his server, however, I believe he posted the other day that he did not like what he heard with fiber coming from the eR to the Server.  Maybe too bright?  I'll ask him to elaborate.   But he does like  the eR to copper to Server route.

 

I have been listening only through Qobuz.  The sq has been so good with the Taiko and Qobuz that I don't have much motivation to download onto the Server drive.   And, interestingly, the one album (hi Rez) I've downloaded from Qobuz to the Server sounds too bright compared to the streamed version.  Go figure.   But I'll be trying more.

[wwc]

8 hours ago, matthias said:

 

Can you try to bypass the Cisco with the ER that means to connect the Cisco to a A-port of the ER but have no series connection of both switches regarding your signal coming from Qobuz?

Thanks

 

Matt

OK, I'll try that:  modem > copper > eR A side >   eR B side >  copper > server.   With the Cisco and all it's attachments coming of one of the A ports of the eR.   Good idea.

 

So this will work for a copper set up.  But not,  if I wanted to try

copper > eR B side > eR A side > optical > server.   Because, as  I understand proper set up if A side is used as output, nothing else should share that side.

[wwc]

8 hours ago, matthias said:

 

Sorry,

but I have seen so far no comment from Emile about listening impressions with the ER.

Can you please post a link?

Thanks

 

Matt

Thanks for pointing that out.  I mistakenly thought it was Emile, when in fact, it was only Emile quoting someone else.  It's on a thread at What's Best for etherRegen.   Here is the quote:

"First Uptone Ether Regen feedback from Hong Kong:

I just received my Uptone Ether Regen. It’s quite amazing. I swapped out my modified switch and tried the ER using (A) fibre optic output (Startech) to SGM. This was already better straight out of the box (quieter and better defined bass were immediate impressions). I then used the recommended (B) copper Ethernet output to SGM. Quieter still and better throughout the spectrum. Biggest improvement was clearer separation of instruments and soundstage. I could also hear instruments that used to come straight out of speakers to being positioned behind speakers to create better layering. I then wanted to try and connect from my router to my modified switch > ER (Fibre optic to (A)) > copper Ethernet to SGM. That test will have to wait.

I also tried the SOTM about two months ago. I tried single SOTM and stacked. Single ER definitely better than single but I can’t say single ER better than two stacked SOTM. They were different. I suspect stacking two ER will beat two SOTM."

 

 

 

[wwc]

3 hours ago, kennyb123 said:

 

This is very well said.  I did not have to do an A/B comparison as the improvement was immediately obvious.  And then it got better, as measured by my increase in musical enjoyment.

 

The two reports where no differences were found both mentioned reaching that conclusion via A/B tests.  I wonder if they'd reach a different conclusion if they just left the ER in their system for a week - spend a good time listening - and then just remove it.  

 

The EtherRegen continued to confirm its benefits the more music I fed it.  In a previous post, I wrote:  "Harshness is a weird thing in that we pick up on it, but we really don’t get a full appreciation of how much it had been imposing upon us until we hear it stripped away.  I’ve been repeatedly surprised by the absence of a hardness that I had become accustomed to hearing."  I don't see how A/B testing can provide this same kind of insight.  

 

 

I can appreciate your point of view.  In fact, in addition to  disciplined A/B listening I also give extended listening time, which is what I'm doing with the eR now.   

 

However, it's really easy to make a mistake (I can speak from personal experience).  Without using A/B listening,  I can easily imagine a scenario where I'm excited about the eR (after waiting a year) plugging it in and fooling myself (unconsciously)  that it make the music "better" when, in fact,  I know that right now  that it does not.

 

I can tell you I'm 100% positive our A/B listening told us the truth-- in my system and in that particular configuration-- that there was  very little, if any, sonic difference between the two.

 

That's not a slam against the eR.  And I may find after playing with different configurations that it does complement my system.   I did, for instance, find a very noticeable difference (though not a totally good one) running the eR before optical-- but I don't know what that really means yet.  I might be just the optical and have nothing to do with with the switch.

[wwc]

On 11/19/2019 at 1:25 AM, matthias said:

 

Can you try to bypass the Cisco with the ER that means to connect the Cisco to a A-port of the ER but have no series connection of both switches regarding your signal coming from Qobuz?

Thanks

 

Matt

@matthias I'm trying some configuration variations.   The first being with and without the Gigafoil filter before the eR.   However, when I disconnect ethernet on any track, the buffer keeps playing until the end of the track.  (this is different from previous tests, where the buffer played usually just a few seconds).   So, this begs the question, for this particular test, am I only hearing a cached version of the track?   

[wwc]

My most recent listening was done comparing my set up with no eR and with the eR (copper in to B side and optical out from A side).  

 

It's definitely not a strong difference, but I consistently hear a bit more clarity with the eR and optical.   Subtle, but good.