UpTone Audio EtherREGEN Listening Impressions

[nonesup]

2 hours ago, Darryl R said:

Because I was close to pulling the trigger on a hi-end server, like for instance the Pink Faun 2.16x, and I don't think I will now, I asked John a few questions about those touted enhancements like, for instance, motherboard clocks.  Since he was kind enough to give me some of his valuable time, I thought I'd share his response here so we all can start to better understand the phenomena (except, of course, for those of you who already know it all).  It's an extension of what he and Alex have been telling us:

 

My paper will really go into all this in much better detail ... In a nutshell, each device has its own clock phase noise, the phase noise from upstream devices can "overlay" the phase noise of the local clock. Making the local clock better stops being useful when the overlay is much greater than the local clock phase noise. So in some situations doing things like putting really good clocks on a motherboard may help, but it may not.

 

The EtherREGEN gets rid of all this so upstream stuff like that doesn't really matter. The only clocks that really matter are the renderer AFTER the EtherREGEN and the DAC fed by that. THOSE two WILL benefit from lower clock phase noise, no matter how you get it there, whether it is built in or coming from some external source. Because the EtherREGEN interrupts the clock over laying process, you can clearly hear the differences in clocks in the downstream devices.

 

So if the external clock is feeding the NUC feeding the DAC, yes, that is a good thing, if it is feeding the motherboard of the server feeding the EtherREGEN, probably not worthwhile.

 

I know these concepts seem weird and not what other people are talking about, but the intent of the paper is to really get down to the nitty gritty about how all this happens and what the EtherREGEN does about it.

 

John Swenson

That's why I hope that John and Alex will ever decide to build a super ISO Regen, with electronic moat technology.

[nonesup]

1 hour ago, hols said:

                                                My struggle with EtherRegen first 72 hours

Some background on my system. I have been a 'loyal' Uptone supporter all along and I still am. I have in my possession one JS2, two LPS1.2, LPS1.0 and isoRegen and now two ER. Before using the ER in my system I have been using a SOtM switch (highest spec) and fed by Cybershaft OP20 as 10M reference and using Habst cryo'ed silver clock cable. I have been using the SOtM switch between my Doppio server (designed by my buddy) HQplayer embedded and the NAA and connected via USB to Denafrips Terminator. There is no problem with connection all along. We have tried to stack 2 SOtM switches connected by single mode optical and sounded excellent compared with only one. And we have been looking forward to the EtherRegen and see whether it can achieve that kind of improvement.

 

I first used the Uptone SMPS and internal clock to replace my SOtM and I would say there is a very significant drop in wattage of the resulting SQ. There is shrinkage in soundstage, loss of detail and sound is dull. This is not unexpected because this is the first 15 minutes of connection and one cannot make any conclusion from that. I then powered off the ER and connected the 10M clock input pushed the button to external clock and then powered up again. And I immediately encountered stuttering which lasted for 10 minutes without improvement. I have to power off and then power up again and this time after stuttering for a few minutes it runs normally without dropout. The sound improves a lot compared to without 10M clock but to my ears the sound is not on par with the SOtM. My estimate is only about 50% to 70% of that of the SOtM. This is again not unexpected with a not yet boiled gear. I then changed the power supply to LPS1.2 and I would say there is not much of improvement with using the LPS1.2 and there was again some dropouts in the beginning. I then changed to JS2 giving it a 12V power supply. The sound appears a bit more solid but there is a slightly heavy mid range with JS2. That is about 1.5 hours after using the ER. My friend came over to join me at that juncture and I was playing a DGG Fournier & Gulda Beethoven Cello sonata. One thing that caught us both is that the piano comes off with excellent shape as if the Grand piano just stands up and you can hear all the delicate touch by Gulda. But at the same time the cello becomes shrunken. I guess this is due to a more quiet background and better delineation of the highs and SuperHighs  compared with lows that contributes to this spatial delineation of the grand piano. This is a very different presentation compared with SOtM which gives a much richer timbre especially in the range of Cello. We then decided to try to stack the ER behind the SOtM and see whether we can get the best of both worlds(I have studied the manual a few times and know that the B side of the ER should always be closest to the DAC to prevent leakage currents from interfering). 

 

I connected through single mode fibre SFPs and when powered up we face stuttering again and this time it persisted for 10 minutes or so so I have to change it to RJ45 ports with ethernet cable. There is some scattered dropouts and it goes on normally afterwards. As for the sound there is a combination of the 2 characters, the balance between Cello and piano is more natural now. The piano is still excellent but there is a less holographic presentation compared with before. But I would say that the SQ still lacks behind that of 2 stacked SOtM switches. The ER is left powered on till next day

 

When I played music through the next day there is not much of improvement compared with before which is again not unexpected because the boiling process need to continue a bit longer.  But I encountered some stuttering again when I changed to other files. And I found out from this forum that I am not alone and John is trying his best to deal with it. At that time one of my buddies just communicated that he has no problem on the first day but on second day there is stuttering and then cannot even connect. Hope that John can find out solutions to that.

After stabilizing a bit the music seems to be stable and I tried to experiment with my second ER. This time I tried to put it between my Asus 88 router and my Synology NAS using RJ45 ports and ethernet cable. There is stuttering again and this time the stuttering continues. But amidst the dropouts I can hear that there is an improvement in SQ. But I have to give up because after a while there is interrupted connection.

 

Onto the third day today and I've got the biggest surprise which I didn't expect. The system is still on the SOtM +ER stack (without NAS ER)there is some improvement in the sound the orchestra sound more coherent with good layout and yet hearing more details. No stuttering. And I continue to explore by adding a ER between my NAS and router and voila suddenly the orchestra opens up and the widest and deepest soundstage I have ever achieved. And more important is that I can hear the details and ambiance and the air around the instruments are the best ever. The double bass are just rock solid in their place way back in the soundstage and yet giving out a detailed and musical sound echoing the other instruments of the orchestra. The layout is very natural and not the artificial pinpoint focus. One can just feel the rapport  amongst the various instruments of the orchestra. As my friend commented it's like being the conductor of the orchestra. And fortunately there is no more dropouts today. And it seems that adding this second ER gives the best reward and is well worth its price. Now the SQ has surpassed the 2 stacked SOtM switches.  Bravo Alex.

 

So to conclude my first 72 hours impression with ER 

(1) Direct comparison with SOtM the ER may not have advantage and will need further boiling before any definitive conclusion

(2) The sound character of ER is different from SOtM

(3) The stacked SOtM with ER can give additive effect

(4) Second ER between NAS and router can give big boost in SQ

(5) The power supply to the ER needs further testing

 

And in my system using two ER becomes a must.

 

Having said that I am still confused about the cause of the dropouts and I shall raise the questions over in the installation thread.

Thanks again for your great product Alex and John.

 

Thank you for such a complete report.
So since I have difficulties with English, it is not clear to me how is the configuration of two ERs that finally got a great sound.  I want to understand that they are not bound by fiber, but in another way.  Could you explain it?

[nonesup]

5 hours ago, emailists said:

When I popped the ER into my system, (hooked up directly to Mac’s second Ethernet port) I had a Baaske passive medical Ethernet isolator as the last thing plugged in before my ps audio DS/bridge2.  I didn’t want to change more than 1 item at a time, so I left the Baaske in.

 

I posted several very positive impressions.  

 

With the ER fully broken in I decided to remove the Baaske, and was shocked what I heard (and confirmed by putting it back in the system)

 

The Baaske was throwing a blanket over the sound.  Without it, much more alive.  When I first got it I originally felt it made the sound smoother.

 

The level of sound quality I am now achieving (especially with WAV and DSD) Is just insane.  

 

With the Baaske now banished, I will now have to pull the ER out of the system to once again get a handle on what it’s doing.  

 

There were some aspects over the years of owning my TAD speakers that could be annoying.  I now realize that it had nothing to do with any shortcomings with the speaker, and everything to do with the signal it is being fed.

 

I used to think the concentric design yielded a sound that could be more “stuck” to the speakers, than on other designs.  I used to think Beryllium could sound brittle at times. 

 

All of this is false.  Between the latest Wisdom OS of my Directstream DAC and the EtherRegen, (along with converting flac to WAV)  the level of reproduction I’m getting is just shocking.  In some ways I’m now thinking it can be better than the live event.  I hear live acoustic music often.  recorded sound’s  production elements and close micing might possibly be providing more than one could hear  in the room the music was being made (an example of which being added reverb) 

 

There is a new sweetness and freedom from the speaker box, height information, depth, bandwidth of instruments, acoustic envelope and impulse response being presented that surpasses any expectation I had about what home music systems could reproduce.  I’m also feeling like the intact phase information presented by a coincident driver now fully shines.  

I had an imitator of the EMO brand.  Very soft but it killed the music.  Fortunately it was cheap.  It lasted an hour on my system.

[nonesup]

My ER will arrive in mid-December.

I have a normal Aqvox (when I was going to upgrade to SE, Alex announced the ER project and stopped the Aqvox upgrade).

I plan to test both replacing Aqvox with ER, and leaving Aqvox between Router and ER.

I will comment on my impressions.

[nonesup]

With what you are taking for granted, without doing a test, that ER is better than Aqvox SE.  I would never sell Aqvox SE, without trying first.
There are many good experiences here with ER, but others not so good.

[nonesup]

12 hours ago, BigAlMc said:

 

I own both the Aqvox SE and the ER and there's no doubt the ER kicks the Aqvox butt in my mind. I heard a slight improvement with the Aqvox, I hear a big improvement with the ER. Its unmistakably a bigger impact.

 

What I don't know is whether its additive.

 

Prior to the EEE/firmware discovery the ER plugged into my Aqvox didn't work period. I haven't tried again post the EEE fix. Perhaps I should.

 

But common sense indicates if the ER is doing its job then the Aqvox is not needed. I anticipate selling my Aqvox. Even if I'm not exactly marketing it on this thread.

 

That is exactly my suppositio, and that is why I have been waiting for the ER for almost two years.  But until I try my system, it will only be that;  a supposition.

[nonesup]

42 minutes ago, BigAlMc said:

Yup. Fair points.

 

To be clear I'm not trying to prove or challenge anything. But personally I have an unused LPS-1.2 sitting on my rack. Unused because it was powering my Aqvox switch which has been so comprehensively replaced by the ER. So it's a no brainer for me to try that experiment. Am guessing others will be in a similar situation so hoping for their observations.

 

Bigger picture the ER is in its infancy as a brand new product so any shared knowledge and experience that helps find optimal performance are welcome.

 

That said I'm in no rush to even install the firmware as its sounding so damn good already 😀

Same configuration here.  Aqvox is powered by LPS 1.2, but I don't energize it with the SMTP, but with a Kenneth Lau LPS.  My first test will be to remove the Aqvox and put ER in exactly the same configuration.  Later I can do other tests.

[nonesup]

In the month of March (and when I was thinking of updating my AQVox to the SE version), it will be two years since Alex made the announcement that they were working on a new Switch designed entirely from zero, and based on the separation by means of a "pit" of the incoming RJ45 ports and the outgoing RJ45 port, in order to "totally" isolate the devices downstream from the EtherREGEN, from those that were upstream.  I liked what I read and in an act of faith (like so many of us) I decided to wait, which in the end has been almost two years.
 Unlike some installations that have been explained here, mine is really very simple:

 

 Router with LPS Kenneth Lau.
 AQ Cinnamon RJ45 cable
 AQVox Switch (EtherREGEN) with LPS Kenneth Lau
 Göbel RJ45 cable
 Melco N1ZH60-2
 Göbel USB cable
 Kassandra Reference MKll

 I have to say and this is important as you will see later, that all devices, except the Router (which is in the kitchen) are connected to a Shunyata Denali 6000T.
 I also have to say that I have powered EtherREGEN with its SMPS, with LPS 1.2 from Uptone and with LPS from Kenneth Lau.  And also that the only device Router that I have “upstream” of the ER, I have tested it with its Shunyata Alfa NR cable, with an Isotek Optimun cable and I have switched between the SR Blue fuse I had and the new SR Orange.  All these changes in order to check if the objective of total isolation through the pit had been met.
 My conclusions are as follows:

 1.- If you have a normal Switch or an AQVox, changing it to an ER produces an increase in the SQ?  The answer is a big YES, even if you use the Uptone SMPS and even better with a good LPS.  Which shows that that pit or ADIM as Uptone calls it, is doing a great job.

 2.- Does ADIM isolate “totally” both sides of the pit?  My answer is a big NO.  Absolutely all the changes made to the Router resulted in a change in the sound of the system.  This can be positive because it indicates that there is still room for improvement for the future.

 3.- Although my Kenneth Lau LPS has the floating output, and since I only have one entry occupied on the A side (the one that goes to the Router) in principle connecting the ground screw of the ER to the ground of the power grid  I should not improve the system's SQ.  As testing costs little, I took an Entreq Apollo Infinity cable that I had unused and connected the ER screw to a socket on the wall.  Immediately the sound changed, not necessarily better, let's say different.  Then I remembered that the Denali had a free socket and I connected the ground wire to it.  "Clinck" is as if all the pieces of the puzzle suddenly fit into place.  With this change, I was perplexed.  How did the sound change? (I'm a lousy descriptor):

Clarity, organic sound and reduction (even more) of digital stress.
 The violin masses of many orchestral recordings, which are my
 authentic "bête noir" sounded natural now, or at least much more natural, than I had ever heard.

Why unify the earth of the ER plate to that of the rest of the system, produces this effect ?, I have no idea, but in my system it is evident.
 Is it worth the ER?  Absolutely and for $ 650 it seems the biggest "bargain" in history.

[nonesup]

You express the impedance in Hz again.

[nonesup]

1 hour ago, chungjh said:

I have my ER powered by PHynes SR4T and it improved my SQ. Does everyone who tried it notice a significant SQ improvement with a GOOD LPS for the modem/router? Or would it be a marginal improvement?

I have Farad Super3 for ISP Modem-Router and in my case the improvement is not marginal.

[nonesup]

1 hour ago, chungjh said:

What cable are you using to connect ER to the ISP router?

AQ Diamond, but I am waiting for the delivery of a Sablon 2020 Ethernet