UpTone Audio EtherREGEN Listening Impressions

[PYP]

I hope folks mention their setups before and after the EtherREGEN in addition, of course, to what they are hearing.  Agree that waiting a few days gives a better perspective, but imagine some will find such an immediate improvement that they will want to share that experience.  

 

Also hope there is a separate "installation/problems" thread, as Alex mentioned, so that the "Listening Impressions" can remain just that, while elsewhere folks work through installation.   I've read a thread for another product that combined the two and it was difficult to follow and enjoy.   

[PYP]

2 hours ago, EVOLVIST said:

#2 Could it be that the ER is accentuating some highs, slightly? My "accentuating" isn't the right word. Hearing Nat King Cole's "Welcome to the Club" with the ER running, well...with lesser systems, or before I had my room acoustically treated it's easy for Cole's vocals to get peaky.

 

Given my own experience with the ER thus far, and with all other gear I've broken in previously, I believe what you are describing is a break-in issue.  Some have suggested 30 hours of break-in is a good timeframe for hearing what the ER can do.  

 

While some are reporting fantastic results right out of the box (which is great), that wasn't the case for me.  While I could hear a cleaner bass line and better separation of instruments, the high end of the piano didn't sound right -- peaky, as you said.  After 7 hours the highs were better.  After 20 hours, the "big pipe" (as someone explained the ER's effect) was there, liquidity was there, but the highs were just a little accentuated.  From past experience with other gear, this isn't a surprise to me.  Usually, the break-in seems to go from low frequencies to high, with the high frequencies sometimes taking a very long time to even out (or maybe that is just how my hearing senses the changes--perhaps it is really all happening simultaneously).  

 

I'm going to give the ER at least 30 hours before writing my impressions.  Just thought this might help you a bit.  

[PYP]

15 hours ago, stevebythebay said:

My experience with the ER has been a) slow to begin to gel (about 24-30 hours) b) slower refinement for another 48 hours c) now at around 100 hours in and everything is smooth as silk - top to bottom 

 

Great information.  Thank you.  Now at 30 hours, my ER is tracking your experience.  Showing great promise.  Feeling no pain listening to Jazz via internet radio.  

 

I think this little wonder is going to show many audiophiles how good their DACs really are and how far digital playback has come in recent years.  The resolution is amazing these days, even with excellent internet radio.  The ER might help treat DU - digital upgraditis - but check with your doctor first.  The ER might cause temporary racing pulse, drooling and involuntary spasms known as male dancing.  

[PYP]

12 minutes ago, Jud said:

Back to the many-splendored pleasures of ER and music to enjoy them with, as I occasionally listen during shuffle play/burn-in:

 

I do the same thing and had a similar experience with Carlos Nakai's Carry the Gift.  This is always on my burn-in playlist (yes, I have one of those in Roon) because it is typically a nice, calm interlude and the flute just floats.  But the first song suddenly sounded different.  It starts with a feathery flute intro, then in the distant background a strumming guitar (hadn't heard it so early in the song previously).  Now, with the ER, it was clear as day that the guitar gets louder as the flute goes to the background.  The guitar plays faster and louder.  Then the flute comes in faintly at first, then the two instruments are equally loud.  So, what was a gentle song was now (for the genre) a barn burner!  Finally, I heard two excellent musicians making music.  

[PYP]

Hadn't listened to vocals.  The song Love is Blindness from Cassandra Wilson's New Moon Daughter.  I've listened to this one many times, but I literally stopped what I was doing and had to sit down to hear it all.  What a magnificent instrument the human voice can be.  And if you are familiar with her albums you know she works with wonderful musicians.  Now I have to look up the guitarist because he is making it all work.  

[PYP]

9 minutes ago, dminches said:

While one can play the music lower because of this, I am finding that I want to play the music louder because it is that more pleasing and there is zero fatigue.

 

I'm finding the same thing.  And my speakers like the extra volume, which provides greater resolution.  Overall, there is quite an increase in resolution.  Currently I'm keying in on wonderful tone and the spatial cues about the recording venue.  You can "see" the space.  

[PYP]

3 minutes ago, pkane2001 said:

 

All they are asking for is any kind of objective evidence to support the claims or explanations proposed here. That's how real science works. Blind faith that one's perception and senses are infallible is the direct equivalent of a flat earther, whose world view is rooted in this exact belief.

 

Can we take this "discussion" elsewhere?  Of course, I want to add my two cents first.  😀  And that is there are well-known and respected audio designers who design by measurement, but who say that it is clear they hear distinctions that they cannot measure yet.  I believe that is what Alex was talking about when he mentioned having an open mind.  

 

[PYP]

2 hours ago, _JL_ said:

So the key findings here are: (a) run-in is a must before serious comparisons can be made;

 

For whatever reason, it always takes a new piece of gear a very long time to settle into my setup.  The eR is no different.  In fact, it reminds me of burning in my previous DAC -- there are periods when the sound is sublime and times when it doesn't sound very good at all.  Overall, now more than 130 hours of playing music, the peaky highs (seems others have the opposite problem) are gradually reducing.  I will probably give it 200 hours (arbitrary limit) before deciding if it is going to work with my DAC (which is my streamer/Roon endpoint too).  

[PYP]

A funny thing happened on the way to burn-in:

 

I'm assuming that my setup/ears/listening preferences/room and the interaction of those may have made me an outlier in the burn-in process; however some of the folks on this forum might be outliers too, so perhaps this post will be useful to them.

 

Before inserting the eR, I'd call my setup unfailingly musical.  No desire to upgrade speakers or major gear.  And I had stopped tweaking (have to be honest even if it costs me my audiophile union card).   

 

In summary:  The burn-in period has thus far been about 170 hours and only now do I think it is nearly done settling in.  

 

Unlike many others, my out-of-the-box experience was that the highs were peaky, the soundstage was closed in, but there was also greater delineation of instruments.   

 

30 hours:  Experienced about 1 hour of glorious vocal music before the sound degraded. 

 

60 hours:  This thing sounds awful.  Thought about throwing it out the window, but too hot to pick up

 

120 hours:  Sounds much better, but identical to what I had before inserting the eR.  Time for a refund?

 

170 hours:  Highs almost completed clean/clear without being exaggerated.  Some albums sound huge, others so intimate that it is uncanny, etc.  All depends on the recording.  I'd put money on being able to distinguish my pre-eR system from post-eR system with any recording I know well, and perhaps some I don't.

 

My setup is simple:  computer/Roon > router (isp-provided) > ethernet (in-wall, patch cable) > eR > ethernet cable > DAC (and Roon endpoint).  

[PYP]

Got internet?

 

Listening to Ron Carter's Foursight - Stockholm, Vol. 1.  (Qobuz/Roon).  If this be the sound of streaming, play on....

 

Too good not to share with Jazz fans.  Enjoy!

[PYP]

37 minutes ago, Superdad said:

This very interesting review was posted over in the EtherREGEN Firmware discussion thread. 

 

Terrific/prefect review!  But, as a wise man once said, everything has been said, but not everyone has said it.  So...

 

For my measurements and A/B testing, I use highly accurate, one-of-a-kind instruments:  my wife's ears.  During burn-in, which in our setup required 300+ hours and cycled back and forth between musically engaging and hard to listen to (with, to me, the usual signs of overall improvement), my wife said the following:  please lower the volume (always a bad sign); could you put on other music (ditto); is that Bill? (Frisell, artist identification and interest is always a positive sign); what is that? That song is really lovely (getting close to break-in, whew); you can turn that up (thanks, Uptone!), it sounds better but I don't know the reason.  The last statement makes perfect sense to me.

 

My wife is either engaged by the music or not.  She listens holistically.  She doesn't care about gear, highs/lows, soundstage, burn-in or anything related.  When I thought the eR sounded bad, I didn't say anything, hoping she wouldn't notice.  Nope.  Likewise, when I was happy the break-in was almost over, I didn't say anything.  Very pleased when she mentioned it sounded better, especially given her concern about messing with the SQ we had before the eR.  

 

Before the eR, we both loved our setup and could listen all day (literally), so she was a bit concerned about why I would gamble $640 to find out if the sound could improve (until I explained the money back guarantee).  Frankly, I didn't know what to expect from the eR.  And now that it has settled in, just like incus, there are times when I wonder what exactly has changed and am very thankful for the transparency of the eR (known here as the little gizmo, sorry Alex) -- I wouldn't want to change the characteristics of our DAC.  Those qualities are simply more evident is a very natural, organic and flowing way.  The DAC's ability to provide what are sometimes tradeoffs in sound -- the presentation is even more relaxed and more dynamic, more transparent and more lush -- has increased.  

 

Great product at a great price!  Thank you Alex and John.  Looking forward to reading about your next innovation.  

[PYP]

1 hour ago, bailyhill said:

I wonder if the PS issue requires a different direction?  

 

You might want to check out this thread, including the last few posts:  

 

 

[PYP]

2 minutes ago, flkin said:

I suspect it's something else not related to the streamer or upstream components. There are simply too many people with good results with the ER. 

 

I have had some issues with the the high frequencies too.  Currently trying an UpTone JS-2 LPS.  Have had it for only three days, so too early to judge its full potential, but it is already clear that an excellent LPS is needed in some systems for natural HF (mine being one).  My DAC, purchased about 1 year ago, doesn't limit the HF energy.  Once the DAC settled in, the HF sounded close to perfect (to my ears), yet something was not quite right.  Adding diffusers was the remedy, therefore I'm also considering additional room treatments now that I have the eR.   

 

 Good luck with your experiment.  

[PYP]

7 minutes ago, Flashman said:

Below is a link to the first pro review (Stereo Times) that I’ve come across.  

 

 

He gets it right.  And they are right about the Tambaqui too (the review just above).  

Congratulations Alex and John. 

[PYP]

Are there quality external clocks that cost less than $3,500?

[PYP]

1 hour ago, Superdad said:

Our Hong Kong dealer does a lot of business with Cybershaft and has been pushing them for some time to produce a version at an EtherREGEN-matching price-point. I don't know when that will happen though. 

 

That is why we need an UpTone external clock in a JS-2 chassis.  Just saying....  

[PYP]

17 minutes ago, stevebythebay said:

 I'm guessing that to get something that will make a substantial improvement to your eR would cost up to 50 times the cost of your eR.  Likely better to look elsewhere in your system to improve SQ. 

 

That makes sense.  Was wondering about price and quality to determine if I wanted to do more research.  Not at this point since my DAC does not utilize an external clock and I'm sticking with my system for as long as it is working reliably. 

[PYP]

Long-term listening seems to me to be the only way to evaluate a new piece of gear (or your whole system).  Can you listen for, oh say, 6+ hours a day without fatigue?  Do you listen to more new music now than before (thank you Roon + Qobuz)?  Do you enjoy your favorites in a new way?  If the answer to all of these is yes, I think most audiophiles would be pleased.

 

I received my eR in the first batch (and, yes, I've added that fact in my CV under Awards and Honors).  I can't say that I just dropped it in and was done with it.  The eR took a long, long while to settle into my system.  At times, with the included SMPS, all was well, but at other times not so much.  So I tweaked and made a few changes to my system.  Some were unrelated to the eR per se (for example, for reasons of safety from power surges, plugging my amps into the same Isotek power conditioner as my other gear -- had always bought the idea of amps and other stuff should be fed by separate dedicated outlets).  Other than that and the items listed below (added an UpTone JS-2 and Sonore oM), I added a new power cord for my DAC and moved the previous power cord to the JS-2).

 

Today I was listening to one of my favorites:  Bill Frisell's The Intercontinentals.  It is safe to say that I thought I knew every bent note and fully appreciated the amazing communication among the fine musicians.  Yet, there was more to be heard.  And I don't mean sound effects, finally hearing that gnat fart during the solo or subliminal rumbling subway beneath the piano; rather more emotional engagement with the music.  Remarkable.  

 

To my ears, the eR is a great achievement that has increased my listening pleasure.  Thanks, Alex and John.  You have certainly earned the great success by following your instincts.  

[PYP]

19 minutes ago, MartinT said:

My system is as shown in my signature and the diagram.  The EtherREGEN is inserted between my TP-Link 4G router and the Asus Tinker Board S single board computer running Volumio.  The feed into the A side is via an Acoustic Revive RLI-1 LAN isolator and 3m MeiCord ethernet cable. 

 

Perhaps you are pleased enough to just leave it as is now, but you might try removing the LAN isolator.  I ended up taking mine out of the chain.  Just a thought....

[PYP]

Was minding my own business when Roon radio came up with an interesting selection.  What I heard was a Telecaster being played by someone who loves acoustic guitar and could play with a tone and fluidity that was breathtaking.  Yes, Julian Lage -- Atlantic Limited on Modern Lore.  I've been astounded by his playing on other musician's jazz albums.  He seems to reflect music from around the globe, while still sounding like jazz and keeping within the melody of the song!  It sounds like someone who can play whatever they imagine and they have a big imagination based upon loving music from many different cultures and styles.  Good stuff!  

[PYP]

On 3/17/2020 at 12:12 PM, mourip said:

I am certain that my Mutec REF10 makes a nice difference clocking the ER.

 

What brand of clock cables are folks using to connect to the eR?  Thanks. 

[PYP]

41 minutes ago, MartinT said:

 

Short 0.5m Canare LV-61S 75 ohm cable, tested and found to be very decent.

 

I'm assuming this was DIY.  If not, could you provide a link?  Haven't seen any terminated 0.5m Canare.  Thanks.  

[PYP]

32 minutes ago, Clockmeister said:

What an interesting thread with quite a few UK participants I see, so any real conclusions here with regard to whether the Ether generator appreciates a good clock source over the delightful 575 Crystek O.E. fit?

 

NOTE:  there is a separate thread regarding clocks for the eR, but prior to that thread starting there were many comments in this thread.

[PYP]

1 minute ago, MarkusBarkus said:

I thought you folks would understand. 

 

Indeed we do     It is very hard for an audiophile to use the work "excessive" when describing the lengths they have gone to for best sound.  I'm just a little surprised you haven't told us about the anti-vibration footers you use for the rack.  

[PYP]

1 hour ago, LowMidHigh said:

 

I experienced the same. A cascade of 2 ER sounds surprisingly better than one.

Itching to test the limits and get a 3rd...

 

So, the Ref10 clocks both?  Are you using the included SMPS for power?