Popular Post Superdad Posted November 1, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted November 1, 2019 I had planned to start a "Listening Impressions" topic a couple of days after making the first shipments but you beat me to it! While I am sure that people will talk about their set ups as part of their usage reports, I do ask that questions about how best to use EtherREGEN be kept to a minimum in this thread--at least at the start. There is now a separate thread: https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/57586-etherregen-installation-usage-difficulty-questions-thread/ And for goodness sake, let's please avoid detours into Ethernet cable comparisons. Thanks everyone. Hope you enjoy your new EtherREGENs! --Alex C. so-no-mah, mourip and Aidagent 2 1 UpTone Audio LLC Link to comment
Superdad Posted November 9, 2019 Share Posted November 9, 2019 4 minutes ago, vortecjr said: I would assume that one would instead connect a device that has some consideration given to its network input. Well sure. We’ve been pretty clear that while we think the EtherREGEN will make upstream stuff matter less, it will at the same time make downstream/endpoint stuff matter more. That is, tweaks and optimizations of the DAC-attached computer/streamer/renderer endpoint become all the more obvious. That has been my personal experience so far. And it certainly bodes very well for fine endpoints such as your micro/ultra/optical Rendus. John has tried the EtherREGEN with both the ultra- and opticalRendus and was effusive about what he hears with the combo. UpTone Audio LLC Link to comment
Superdad Posted November 10, 2019 Share Posted November 10, 2019 New thread started: https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/57586-etherregen-installation-usage-difficulty-questions-thread/ As mentioned at the end of the fist post there, the The long development and active launch discussion thread can remain the place for all other EtherREGEN miscellaneous talk. Things like batches, ordering, technical discussions not related to actual use, and just general EtherREGEN-related social chatter among enthusiasts. UpTone Audio LLC Link to comment
Superdad Posted November 10, 2019 Share Posted November 10, 2019 4 hours ago, rogerdn said: I listened until 1:00 AM, everything sounds new and better 🤙 That’s great to hear Roger. I don’t think Roger will mind my mentioning that he is running the EtherREGEN directly into the Ethernet input of his PS Audio DirectStream DAC (Bridge II, which I believe is based upon the Conversdigital mConnect Ethernet>I2S board). UpTone Audio LLC Link to comment
Popular Post Superdad Posted November 11, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted November 11, 2019 1 hour ago, cat6man said: the 2nd piece i'm looking for is on the other side of the EtherRegen. i have my AL/NUC feeding home router ==>ethernet==>opticalModule==>opticalRendu (NAA)==>DAC has anyone had a chance to insert the EtherRegen in front of an opticalModule/opticalRendu combo? I know that there are several opticalModule/opticalRendu owners who have received--or are about too--an EtherREGEN. We believe that best performance will be obtained by directly attaching the EtherREGEN's 'A'-side SFP port to the optialRendu. But I am sure people with all these devices will report in due time. 58 minutes ago, Dutch said: Hopefully Alex will manage to ship my and the other international orders this coming Wednesday so I can find out for myself soon enough. Hope is not required. Just lots of hours writing and signing commercial invoices and filing shipping documents. 4 minutes ago, Mike Rubin said: It sounds as though Jud tried but abandoned using the optical port as the downstream one for sound quality reasons. Is anyone else connecting a device through an SFP module and, if so, how are you feeling about the ER in that application? I ask because I have an optical rendu now connected to the network with a Sonore optical module that I would switch to another system if the ER is an upgrade of the magnitude this thread suggests it is. You should experiment. I think Jud's experience has nothing to do with the EtherREGEN's SFP port. It most likely has to do with the SMPS of his Cisco switch and its effect on his system--but not via the optical cable. But yes, it has been confirmed (first by John Swenson in his own system, and since then by others) that the EtherREGEN goes beyond the opticalModule. This is not a slight on the very fine opticalModule--easily the world's best FMC for audio. But the core architecture and objectives of the EtherREGEN is the reason that people are hearing and reporting these results. Puma Cat, Dutch, k-man and 1 other 2 1 1 UpTone Audio LLC Link to comment
Popular Post Superdad Posted November 11, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted November 11, 2019 44 minutes ago, stevebythebay said: Won’t dwell on medical stuff, though I had a gout attack last Wednesday on my left big toe, I’m still recovering from… Ouch! Hope you are feeling better. Quote Sorry for the rather lengthy post... Are you kidding? Based on what you wrote I almost feel like just locking the thread now. What more can be said? You said it it all and said it so well. Really happy to know that your already advanced system responded so well. Maybe dCS will want to offer EtherREGEN to go with their components. Of course they would need to put it in a fancy box and multiply the price a few times... 40 minutes ago, Mike Rubin said: If I understand your configuration properly, you are connecting to your endpoint using copper on the B side RJ45. In contrast, I want to use the B side copper port upstream of the SFP. In other words, I want the signal to go from the B side to the A, connecting my rendu end point to the SFP. I think Jud tried that, if I understood his first post correctly, but preferred going from A to B. No, I do not think that is what Jud did. He had two Cisco switches--and before the EtherREGEN he had them connected to each other via SFP/optical fiber, and from the second one ran just one copper cable to his microRendu. When he got the EtherREGEN, he compared: 1) Eliminating the second Cisco Catalyst 2960, running optical to EtherREGEN's 'A'-side and copper to his microRendu; then 2) Eliminating the first Cisco Catalyst 2960 and just running copper to an 'A'-side EtherREGEN port and still the 'B' port to his microRendu. He preferred #2, but other than the Cisco having an internal SMPS--maybe affecting his wall AC--we do not have an explanation. --------- As for your request for reports running B>A (copper to optical, about the only reason someone would do so), I think some folks are already doing this or will shortly. Remember, we spent a bunch of extra time and money to make EtherREGEN symmetrical--just so that B>A would perform equally as well as A>B--primarily for optical endpoint users. Otherwise we would not have put the differential flip-flops on the 'A' side as well, and the second high-speed differential isolator across the moat could have be down-graded to run just a single-ended 25MHz clock line back to the 'A'-side (as opposed to both 25MHz and 250MHz differential clocks). Puma Cat and Jud 1 1 UpTone Audio LLC Link to comment
Superdad Posted November 11, 2019 Share Posted November 11, 2019 4 minutes ago, incus said: A-side Ethernet via SOtM cable from a SOtM switch, B-side optical direct to oRendu. Hi Incus: Thanks for posting. The above is confusing and I just want to be sure that you are crossing the moat. The EtherREGEN's SFP cage is on the 'A' side--with the four Gigabit RJ45 ports. The 'B' side is the single 100Mbps RJ45 copper port, right next to the BNC jack. So for use directly to an opticalRendu, you want to be running B>A. So the copper cable from your other switch should be plugged into the port labeled "'B' PORT OUTPUT," and the fiber optic cable will be run from the SFP port on the 'A' side to your opticalRendu. UpTone Audio LLC Link to comment
Popular Post Superdad Posted November 12, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted November 12, 2019 8 minutes ago, McNulty said: Anyone who has experimented with different power supplies on the ER yet? Wow, I was so enjoying that we made it 5 pages/120 posts before someone brought up power supplies. Of course you are all free to chat about that. But for those wondering--and I am sure users will confirm--EtherREGEN sounds fantastic with the stock PS we ship with it. Whatever folks report about PS upgrading can only be a fraction of its right-out-of-the-box goodness. Bones13 and Jud 1 1 UpTone Audio LLC Link to comment
Superdad Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 14 minutes ago, HumanMedia said: I think that might defeat the purpose of the ER. RFI-noisy general purpose computers are some of the things the ER is meant to separate your DAC from. You could attach it to the B side of the ER with your DAC on the A side which would work well. But since computers transmit airborne RFI as well, I would also try and keep the computer as far away physically as possible. I do not agree. The EtherREGEN is designed to isolate (typically on its 'B' side) the DAC-attached computer/streamer/renderer endpoint. Its benefits will be realized even if that DAC-attached endpoint is general purpose computer, Mac mini, laptop, NUC, whatever. And for @LowMidHigh's example of ER -> Mac Mini (or PC) -> DAC, the DAC likely has only USB input so the DAC can not be directly attached to the EtherREGEN. audio.bill 1 UpTone Audio LLC Link to comment
Superdad Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 6 minutes ago, wwc said: ... I am planning to insert a Mac Mini in between the Taiko Server and the DAC. (The Mini is necessary to run some Bacch software). I'm hoping the Mini will not add too much of a noise signature. Well in the context of a top system (seeing you mention Taiko Server indicates you have some other investments there), I really need to point out that using a Mac mini as the DAC-attached endpoint will be a real compromise, especially if you stay with macOS. If you must stay with a Mac--I assume to run macOS--then you can help it considerably with our Mac mini DC-conversion/Linear Fan Controller Kit (MMK) and our JS-2 choke-filtered, dual-output, 5-7.4A linear power supply. 6 minutes ago, wwc said: My plan is: Copper ethernet > Cisco 2960 > Copper ethernet > ERegen "B"side > ERegen Optical "A" side > Optical Taiko Server > usb Mini > usb DAC Mac mini aside, what you propose is not the optimal set up. You will get much better performance by feeding copper from the EtherREGEN's 'B' port to the Mac mini. You can still use optical from the Taiko, running that to the EtherREGEN's 'A'-side SFP cage. And run a copper Ethernet cable from your Cisco (or direct from your router) into one of the other 'A'-side Gigabit port. UpTone Audio LLC Link to comment
Superdad Posted November 12, 2019 Share Posted November 12, 2019 1 minute ago, HumanMedia said: A in, B out (generally)? That's right. UpTone Audio LLC Link to comment
Popular Post Superdad Posted November 14, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted November 14, 2019 13 minutes ago, PYP said: The ER might cause temporary racing pulse, drooling and involuntary spasms known as male dancing. LOL. If I want my wife and kids to leave the room, all I have to do is (attempt) one or two dance moves. PYP and jos 2 UpTone Audio LLC Link to comment
Popular Post Superdad Posted November 14, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted November 14, 2019 This thread is on its 7th page--with detailed and insightful first-hand reports from many people with extremely refined (and expensive systems (looking at you @stevebythebay). And there is also an active 7-page thread going on over at ASR where they can't figure out what this device could possibly do and are just bouncing around being dismissive and insulting. https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/uptone-etherregen.9260/page-5#post-266563 Oh well. tapatrick, opus101, Avalfa and 2 others 1 4 UpTone Audio LLC Link to comment
Superdad Posted November 14, 2019 Share Posted November 14, 2019 4 minutes ago, Jud said: I like Iron & Wine (the name Sam Beam records under) and his album Beast Epic. Oooh... I think I may have that CD somewhere (looks Iike I never ripped it). Will be squinting at my shelves for it this evening. (One of these days I'll have the time to alphabetize my CD collection. ) Thanks for the recommendation! Jud 1 UpTone Audio LLC Link to comment
Superdad Posted November 14, 2019 Share Posted November 14, 2019 7 minutes ago, PYP said: I do the same thing and had a similar experience with Carlos Nakai's Carry the Gift. Thanks for reminding me of that old favorite. Unfortunately I only have it on original vinyl. UpTone Audio LLC Link to comment
Popular Post Superdad Posted November 14, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted November 14, 2019 37 minutes ago, Darryl R said: My new EtherREGEN sounds marvelous. I had been running from bridged JCAT Net connections on my Linux server directly to the Ethernet Renderer module in the MSB Select II DAC. Now I'm running out the EtherREGEN and I hear more detail. I'll no longer need the bridge. Wow, we are getting into rarified territory here! The MSB web page shows the Select DAC starting at about $84K, plus $20K+ of available power supplies and other upgrades, including the $2K Ethernet input module. And our humble $640 EtherREGEN was immediately an improvement for you? Nice! RickyV, Maceear and so-no-mah 2 1 UpTone Audio LLC Link to comment
Popular Post Superdad Posted November 14, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted November 14, 2019 1 minute ago, Darryl R said: and out of respect for Alex's earlier comments, I won't even mention my Shunyata Ethernet cable Clearly we should charge triple for people with high-zoot systems. Speaking of Shunyata, I noticed that Caelin of Shunyata bought and received an EtherREGEN last week. He runs a busy business so likely has not had a chance to listen yet. 1 minute ago, Darryl R said: Seriously though, I can get any work done. It's almost as if I can hear the felt hammers on the piano strings. Call me nuts, I don't care. No worries. Obviously you are not alone here... so-no-mah and mikeg 2 UpTone Audio LLC Link to comment
Popular Post Superdad Posted November 15, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted November 15, 2019 Looks like Amir is offering $10,000 to any of you who can tell the difference between an EtherREGEN and a $20 switch: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/uptone-etherregen.9260/page-5#post-266813 Who will be the first to step up? Could buy a nice DAC or a lot of new music or some holiday gifts or just donate to charity. [By the way, the graph he is so up in arms about in that post is one he made with 23 feet(!) of three $4 Amazon USB cables chained together--with those he found a slight bit more "noise" picked up by an ISO REGEN. Of course he ignores what the device is about. Guess when all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.] Sonic77, FrankMA, jos and 7 others 10 UpTone Audio LLC Link to comment
Popular Post Superdad Posted November 15, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted November 15, 2019 14 minutes ago, thyname said: A drum beat for example, an acoustic guitar line, or (don’t laugh) banjo. Darn it! I begged John to find a way to completely filter out banjo, but clearly he failed. Guess it's back to the drawing board. Nenon, PYP, so-no-mah and 8 others 2 9 UpTone Audio LLC Link to comment
Popular Post Superdad Posted November 15, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted November 15, 2019 2 hours ago, EVOLVIST said: But, playing devil's advocate here, you can see where they are coming from, right? They want to use the scientific method to be able to replicate something in audio, again and again, only proving to be fact upon repeated replication. Well, I don't find anything wrong with that. It's how shit gets done. Things get discovered. But it's just one approach to things. There are people on his side - people in the business - who cannot fathom anything other than bits being bits, packets are packets, etc. I understand that. I think issues occur when people don't want to understand the the people other side of the tracks. 1 hour ago, firedog said: I actually think Amir's site provides a useful service - measurements. It's useful to see inexpensive products that measure really well, and expensive ones that don't. I'd personally stay away from any device with bad measurements and find a comparable product with better ones. Of course, I'd still want to listen to it. They can be pretty nasty at that site, and they assume $300 DAC that measures better automatically sounds better than an expensive DAC which doesn't measure as well - which I don't think is a "scientific" assumption. However, I would say in the big picture they have a point: We've yet to see measurements showing improvement AT THE DAC OUTPUT for the USB/network devices they denigrate. It's not so hard to show that a device itself is "quiet"; it's something else to show that the quiet actually improves the result at the DAC output. Archimago had a blog showing that a "noisy" server running full out directly connected to the DAC made no measureable difference to the output of the DAC compared to other devices. There are definitely people whose ears I trust; however sighted and subjective comparisons are not fully reliable. We all know that to be true. That's what the people at ASR are all about. The real problem I have with ASR is not the measurements. Some of those can be useful even though they don't tell the whole story and don't correlate to all of what people hear. The problem I have with them--aside from the snide remarks, defamation, and follow-the-leader sycophantry--is the general lack of intellectual curiosity. Early in the thread over there I posted the same circuit board photo with annotated Technical Highlights that appears on our web site. Not one person asked about it; about the differential isolation and clocking and the idea behind it, or about anything. They simply started in with pages of ridicule and judgement. We went to a lot of trouble and expense to do something new, yet their minds are so closed that they completely dismissed it out-of-hand. Amir's own argument--which he showed tonight posting by switch error logs to prove there are no bit problems--makes it obvious he did not read a word of what we said about the issue and the mechanism of the EtherREGEN. And another manufacturer just wrote this, which really sums up the whole thing regarding the stance over there: "It's very simple. Anyone who has the slightest understanding of how ethernet works, how computers work, digital audio works, and is capable of just little bit of critical thought, will conclude there is no mechanism for this to make any improvement. It's a con. We don't need to see or measure it to draw an accurate conclusion. It's about not believing in fairies, not blindly believing the marketing claims and using existing knowledge to inform yourself." So while it is nice that Amir has an Audio Precision analyzer and likes to publish graphs of the gear people send him, in my view very little "science" actually goes on over at Audio Science Review. ===== Now back to those enjoying their EtherREGEN and reporting about our shared mass-delusion. Enjoy your fairies! so-no-mah, jos, ciccio1112 and 13 others 2 11 3 UpTone Audio LLC Link to comment
Popular Post Superdad Posted November 15, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted November 15, 2019 2 hours ago, Iving said: Worked in my system straight out of the box: PC > Cisco > ER > RedNet D16 AES > DAC. Happy to know that the EtherREGEN is playing nice with Focusrite Dante Rednet. Now we just need a user to confim that AES67/Ravenna with a Merging Hapi or NADAC also does okay with our switch’s 100Mbps ‘B’-side limit. 2 hours ago, Iving said: I emphasise. This is an audiophile device punching above its weight. Many congratulations to Alex and John. You've done a great job. Many thanks Iving. It is gratifying for us to receive positive feedback from so many experienced audiophiles who are installing the EtherREGEN into already highly refined systems. gstew, so-no-mah and Iving 2 1 UpTone Audio LLC Link to comment
Popular Post Superdad Posted November 15, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted November 15, 2019 16 minutes ago, lmitche said: This is what is strange about ASR. Alex makes the point that ASR people don't seem open to observation of audio system behaviors that can't be explained. Except that this stuff can be explained—and John has done so in bits and pieces over the years. But some are not interested in discussing the mechanisms and prefer to call it all foolery. They conveniently forget the fact that John spent 30 years as a senior engineer designing the power networks inside the chips that go into all this stuff. The effects of deterministic jitter on the ground/power planes and inside the chips themselves is NOT some fanciful new concept; it is dealt with all the time in high-speed circuits and silicon devices. A couple of months ago it became clear to us that we (well John writing and me editing) need to produce a “white paper”—which starts with some basics so lay-folk can follow—explaining the mechanisms by which leakage, jitter, and power supplies in upstream components can and do affect what goes on inside a DAC. We know that measurement proof to go along with the words will go a long way towards showing people this is real. (Though I am sure the closed-minded will find a way to dismiss whatever we present.) For a couple of years John has been working on and off on a sensitive and sophisticated mult-board instrumentation system that would inject a jitter marker far upstream and show it at the analog output of a DAC (after running through a precision ADC and wavelet analysis s/w)—and then to put isolation techniques in place and compare. We’ve spoken about this before. Yet due to time constraints (product engineering and other life demands) and the need to completely redo the main board for the system (based on some issues learned about critical clock buffer chips) John’s “Golden Gate Bridge/Clock Block system has been put on hold for now. Instead, John recently acquired one of the most sensitive timing analysis systems ever built, the Wavecrest DTS-2079. He just received the boards he designed and the parts to populate them to create the required input module so he can use the system for measurement of jitter and noise on the I2S lines inside DACs. And he will be able to produce comparative graphs with variables like EtherREGEN and other thinkgs upstream. While these will not be measures at the analog output of the DAC that the skeptics demand, I feel stongly that showing differences on the I2S lines inside a DAC will be every bit as valid in proving the existence of these effects and the efficacy of the technology we are employing. rickca, so-no-mah, RickyV and 7 others 3 5 2 UpTone Audio LLC Link to comment
Popular Post Superdad Posted November 15, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted November 15, 2019 3 minutes ago, PYP said: Can we take this "discussion" elsewhere? It is completely my fault that we got off track from the Listening Impressions topic. I was the one who brought up the hubbub going on over at ASR. And I have in the last 12 hours or so posted here my thoughts on the matter—as have a number of others (and I thank @pkane2001 for being civil in presenting his viewpoints). But indeed, let us all move on here. Of course anyone is free to start a new thread to continue with the larger discussion. Thanks, —ALEX Jud, dminches, jos and 6 others 5 2 2 UpTone Audio LLC Link to comment
Superdad Posted November 16, 2019 Share Posted November 16, 2019 1 hour ago, cat6man said: @superdad not sure if you've seen this, but when folks talk about big improvements with $100k rigs, you've got something special. Thanks, but there are plenty of EtherREGEN users--posting right here in this thread--who have systems well north of $100K. I was just on the phone with John and we were talking about how EtherREGEN may both help much more modest systems (DACs) punch well above their mark as well as help the really out there precision DACs (MSB, dCS, etc.) deliver more of what they promise. It is going to get very interesting when some of the DAC manufacturers start trying out EtherREGEN--perhaps for the their trade show set ups. Of course we are very humbled and grateful for all this early success and attention. Good times ahead. P.S. We are working to understand the root cause of the issue a very few people are having with connections. It is definitely an IP address issue not any sort of bandwidth or data integrity issue. Watch the other thread for updates as we work towards a resolution for those folks. so-no-mah 1 UpTone Audio LLC Link to comment
Superdad Posted November 16, 2019 Share Posted November 16, 2019 15 minutes ago, André Gosselin said: Please elaborate ... He was joking. Notice that he said he had not yet received his EtherREGEN. UpTone Audio LLC Link to comment
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