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Analog vs Digital: a Neurologist weighs in

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Main listening (small home office):

Surge protector +_iFi  AC iPurifiers >Isol-8 Mini sub Axis Power Conditioning+Isolation>CAPS IV Pipeline Server + Sonore 12V PS>Kii Control>Audiolense DRC>Kii Three >GIK Room Treatments.
 

Secondary Listening: CAPS Pipeline>IFi iOne DAC>Schiit Freya>Kii Three . Also an SBT and a RB Pi 3B+ running piCorePlayer as an SBT emulator. 

All absolute statements about audio are false :)

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I've seen a thread about this on another forum. Garbage article.  The guy either is highly ignorant of how digital works or has something to sell or his credentials should be ashamed of how they are being used.  

 

Makes think if I need neurological advice I would indeed be getting better advice if I go to my local EE. 


To paraphrase Rick James, "sighted listening is a helluva drug".

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17 minutes ago, esldude said:

I've seen a thread about this on another forum. Garbage article.  The guy either is highly ignorant of how digital works or has something to sell or his credentials should be ashamed of how they are being used.  

 

Makes think if I need neurological advice I would indeed be getting better advice if I go to my local EE. 

 

Well, it appears to be this guy.  I won't say anymore, but I am guessing "maths" has never been a problem for him.

 

 

William Softky is a biophysicist who was among the first neuroscientists to understand microtiming, and among the first technologists to build that understanding into algorithms. Thousands have cited his scientific work, his PhD in Theoretical Physics is from Caltech, his name is on 10 patents and two of the companies he inspired were acquired for $160 million total

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2 minutes ago, Kimo said:

 

Well, it appears to be this guy.  I won't say anymore, but I am guessing "maths" has never been a problem for him.

 

 

William Softky is a biophysicist who was among the first neuroscientists to understand microtiming, and among the first technologists to build that understanding into algorithms. Thousands have cited his scientific work, his PhD in Theoretical Physics is from Caltech, his name is on 10 patents and two of the companies he inspired were acquired for $160 million total

None of which necessarily means what he says about digital audio is correct. 


Main listening (small home office):

Surge protector +_iFi  AC iPurifiers >Isol-8 Mini sub Axis Power Conditioning+Isolation>CAPS IV Pipeline Server + Sonore 12V PS>Kii Control>Audiolense DRC>Kii Three >GIK Room Treatments.
 

Secondary Listening: CAPS Pipeline>IFi iOne DAC>Schiit Freya>Kii Three . Also an SBT and a RB Pi 3B+ running piCorePlayer as an SBT emulator. 

All absolute statements about audio are false :)

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3 minutes ago, firedog said:

None of which necessarily means what he says about digital audio is correct. 

That is assuming that most of us can even understand what he is saying, or he can even make it so.

 

 

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16 minutes ago, Kimo said:

 

Well, it appears to be this guy.  I won't say anymore, but I am guessing "maths" has never been a problem for him.

 

 

William Softky is a biophysicist who was among the first neuroscientists to understand microtiming, and among the first technologists to build that understanding into algorithms. Thousands have cited his scientific work, his PhD in Theoretical Physics is from Caltech, his name is on 10 patents and two of the companies he inspired were acquired for $160 million total

Yes, I know.  His credentials and his mistakes (they are literally almost in every sentence in which he is writing about digital) don't add up.  Looks like those inter-disciplinary degrees (which he has) are about as worthless at Caltech as anywhere else. 


To paraphrase Rick James, "sighted listening is a helluva drug".

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19 hours ago, firedog said:

He thinks that the temporal resolution of a redbook CD is 1/44,100 = 23 microseconds. So apparently he isn't aware of Nyquist-Shannon sampling theorem..

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nyquist–Shannon_sampling_theorem


Current system: MacMini/PC  >> Schiit Eitr (with Uptone Audio LPS-1, for 5V USB power) >>  RME ADI-2 DAC (with Zerozone 12V linear power supply) >>  Xkitz Electronics XOVER-2, 100Hz active crossover (with Zerozone 17.5V linear power supply + LDOVR LT3045-A, ultra-low noise 15V voltage regulator) >> Schiit Vidar stereo power amp to KEF LS50 speakers + Sunfire HRS12/HRS8 active subwoofer. Cables used: Canare star quad speaker cables; AQ Cinnamon USB; AQ Big Sur & Schiit Pyst RCA; Supra CAT8 ethernet cable (with JSSG) for low voltage DC power; unknown coaxial cables; standard mains power cables (with Airlink BPS1502EU, 1500VA, balanced, mains isolation transformer).

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I really do not understand why he thinks CD and 44,1k 6 16 or 24 bit IS the DIGITAL?

When we have high-res PCM and resolution like DSD256?

 

While praising LPs, they always forget that actually no LPs are made purely analog way. Digital is heavily involved in the production chain. 

 

However I agree how much live music experience is important, this is why I started the My Reel Club project, where live studio recordings are done in the presence of a very limited audience and the guests will have the DSD256 and tape recordings after some editing, but no post-production at all. 

 

You can read about it here:

 

 

The next event with a cool jazz quartet was sold out in about a 20 hours. 

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I look to esldudebro69er from the forums for my neuroscience hot takes like “its garbage” and “he must be trying to sell his turntable or something”, a retired Boomer shoe salesman with a diploma from Boise South High Scool.

 

 

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So refresh my memory: what is the maximum "microsecond resolution of Redbook or typical hi-res formats?


Main listening (small home office):

Surge protector +_iFi  AC iPurifiers >Isol-8 Mini sub Axis Power Conditioning+Isolation>CAPS IV Pipeline Server + Sonore 12V PS>Kii Control>Audiolense DRC>Kii Three >GIK Room Treatments.
 

Secondary Listening: CAPS Pipeline>IFi iOne DAC>Schiit Freya>Kii Three . Also an SBT and a RB Pi 3B+ running piCorePlayer as an SBT emulator. 

All absolute statements about audio are false :)

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12 minutes ago, firedog said:

So refresh my memory: what is the maximum "microsecond resolution of Redbook or typical hi-res formats?

You are off by about 6 orders of magnitude.  It is in the few dozen picosecond range for redbook.  Low or sub picosecond range for high res depending upon particulars.  

 

https://troll-audio.com/articles/time-resolution-of-digital-audio/

 

A short write up by mansr.


To paraphrase Rick James, "sighted listening is a helluva drug".

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Thanks. I knew I had read something like that before

 


Main listening (small home office):

Surge protector +_iFi  AC iPurifiers >Isol-8 Mini sub Axis Power Conditioning+Isolation>CAPS IV Pipeline Server + Sonore 12V PS>Kii Control>Audiolense DRC>Kii Three >GIK Room Treatments.
 

Secondary Listening: CAPS Pipeline>IFi iOne DAC>Schiit Freya>Kii Three . Also an SBT and a RB Pi 3B+ running piCorePlayer as an SBT emulator. 

All absolute statements about audio are false :)

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Just had a glance at the article - of course, "microtime" being a factor is 100% BS ... but the heart of the matter indeed is, "That’s the mystery: Why do engineers think it is perfect while musicians think it is awful?"

 

No mystery ... it's all about distortion. The true nature of all recordings, whether analogue or digital, is that with correct replay "you can hear ‘subtle differences,’ so voices and instruments ‘sound more natural,’ even ‘glorious,’ with more ‘color,  ‘depth,’ and ‘beauty.’” ... trouble has been, that it's a slow, slow process knocking down the digital nasties - and to this day it's not recognised that these factors lie at the heart of the matter, 🙂.

 

The 'tragedy' is that so much time and effort is wasted by engineers and others chasing phantom solutions to "making it sound better" - when all that is necessary is to spend more energy cleaning up the act.


Frank

 

http://artofaudioconjuring.blogspot.com/

 

 

Ahhh, Mankind ... Porsche intellect, Trabant emotions ...

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if we are going to talk about picoseconds of time resolution, shouldn't we also talk about things that are 0.84 femtometers in radius ??


"The overwhelming majority [of audiophiles] have very little knowledge, if any, about the most basic principles and operating characteristics of audio equipment. They often base their purchasing decisions on hearsay, and the preaching of media sages. Unfortunately, because of commercial considerations, much information is rooted in increasing revenue, not in assisting the audiophile. It seems as if the only requirements for becoming an "authority" in the world of audio is a keyboard."

-- Bruce Rozenblit of Transcendent Sound

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32 minutes ago, Ralf11 said:

if we are going to talk about picoseconds of time resolution, shouldn't we also talk about things that are 0.84 femtometers in radius ??

Light should travel roughly 300 micrometers per picosecond.  So I don't know? Diameter of a proton? Wouldn't it be 2.8 femtometers for the electron we'd worry about.  Or should we look at how far sound could move in that time frame? 344 picometers per picosecond?


To paraphrase Rick James, "sighted listening is a helluva drug".

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24 minutes ago, esldude said:

 Diameter of a proton? 

 

Bingo - very good Dennnis!

 

and BTW, some are unhappy....

 

here is the layman article:

https://www.quantamagazine.org/physicists-finally-nail-the-protons-size-and-hope-dies-20190911/


"The overwhelming majority [of audiophiles] have very little knowledge, if any, about the most basic principles and operating characteristics of audio equipment. They often base their purchasing decisions on hearsay, and the preaching of media sages. Unfortunately, because of commercial considerations, much information is rooted in increasing revenue, not in assisting the audiophile. It seems as if the only requirements for becoming an "authority" in the world of audio is a keyboard."

-- Bruce Rozenblit of Transcendent Sound

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14 minutes ago, Ralf11 said:

 

Bingo - very good Dennnis!

 

and BTW, some are unhappy....

 

here is the layman article:

https://www.quantamagazine.org/physicists-finally-nail-the-protons-size-and-hope-dies-20190911/

Loved the illustration with that article. Reminds me of ornaments for a Christmas tree.

 

 Now that gives me an idea.  Lamb's Shift audio cables.  They'll have to have hydrogen inside, and we'll have to keep things in a 2P state.  Not going to be cheap to do that in an audio cable.  Laser's needed and all.  Probably advertise them as using a laser to not lift veils, but to burn thru them.  


To paraphrase Rick James, "sighted listening is a helluva drug".

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Ha!  the top level one could be labeled "Excalibur"

 


"The overwhelming majority [of audiophiles] have very little knowledge, if any, about the most basic principles and operating characteristics of audio equipment. They often base their purchasing decisions on hearsay, and the preaching of media sages. Unfortunately, because of commercial considerations, much information is rooted in increasing revenue, not in assisting the audiophile. It seems as if the only requirements for becoming an "authority" in the world of audio is a keyboard."

-- Bruce Rozenblit of Transcendent Sound

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