ASRMichael Posted April 5, 2020 Share Posted April 5, 2020 @ken6217 have you had a look inside to see what OCXO clock they are using? I have PF Ultra usb card power with Sean Jacobs rail. I do wonder how they would compare. or two of them in a chain, would sq improve.... never ending this stuff! Link to comment
Popular Post Blackmorec Posted April 5, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted April 5, 2020 Hi there, My current system includes the Innuos Statement, which uses the same USB clock, card and distributed PS as the Phoenix. The clock in the Phoenix is a 3ppb OCXO with its own dedicated power supply. The DC supply and regulator are designed so that the regulator is situated adjacent to the clock so there are no cables or connectors between PS and oscillator. The USB interface has a similar distributed PS topology. It is possible to connect the Statement to a DAC with both a standard and the special USB interface....the SQ difference between the 2 almost exactly mimicking the effect of adding a Phoenix (its the same hardware). I would agree with the improvements noted in this thread, but I would also add that I hear a major improvement in the perceived precision of the timing, heard as greater ‘swing’, snap and rhythmic interplay between musicians. Whenever I think about upgrades, I believe there are 2 varieties, ‘cosmetic’ upgrades, where there’s more of or improvements to the hi-fi attributes like bass or treble extension and ‘fundamental’ upgrades, where the music becomes more believable, more convincing, more lifelike. Cosmetic upgrades are soon assimilated by the listener and while enjoyment level increases for a while, a few weeks or months and its back to its usual level. With fundamental upgrades, the music creates increased listener involvement and a deeper emotional response and it does so every time you listen. These fundamental improvements start with things like removing glare and hardness to make the music sound more natural...and continue by providing greater ambient information, holistic soundscape structures, 3 dimensional note shape and decay and more detailed micro dynamics, where the ‘liveness’ of the music lives. The Zenith MkII SE is a remarkable piece of kit and can produce extremely realistic sound that is most enjoyable....but Phoenix and Statement take it to the next levels....making the music fundamentally even more believable, more thrilling or emotional, not by highlighting previous flaws but by revealing even greater complexity and structure in the music. thyname, FrankMA and adamaley 1 2 Link to comment
Popular Post Nenon Posted April 5, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted April 5, 2020 1 hour ago, ASRMichael said: @ken6217 have you had a look inside to see what OCXO clock they are using? I have PF Ultra usb card power with Sean Jacobs rail. I do wonder how they would compare. or two of them in a chain, would sq improve.... never ending this stuff! I think your PinkFaun ultraOCXO clock is a little better than the one in the Phoenix. But I also think that the Phoenix OCXO is implemented better, which is important. It is soldered on the PCB rather than using a connector, and it has a separate DC rail. On the other hand, it has a transformer inside the same chassis as the electronics. I can't comment on their USB reclocking board, but every time I have put a transformer inside my computer chassis, I have heard a degraded sound. The Phoenix USB recklocking board might be immune to such degradation, so this might be a moot point. The Phoenix seems like a really nice and well thought out device. I've never had one in my system, so I don't know how it compares to the PinkFaun card with ultraOCXO clock or the new JCAT USB card. My guess is that at this level, all these devices sound exceptionally good, and it's a matter of systems synergy and personal taste. kennyb123, ASRMichael and austinpop 1 2 Industry disclosure: https://chicagohifi.com Dealer for: Taiko Audio, Conrad Johnson, Audio Mirror, and Sean Jacobs Link to comment
Vangelis Posted May 6, 2020 Share Posted May 6, 2020 On 4/4/2020 at 1:04 PM, Blackmorec said: They obviously never heard a DC3. It literally transforms their product, making a far bigger difference than adding the AQVox SE in the first place. In fact I first bought a DC2 because of that silly message from AQVox. Once run in, the difference it made was so profound I traded it straight back against a DC3 with Mundorf caps. What is the cost of a DC3 and how /where can one source It? TP-LInk 1200 WiFi router>Transparent Audio ethernet cable>Innuos PhoenixNet Switch>Muon Pro ethernet cable>Muon Pro>Grimm Mu2>AudioQuest Dragon XLR>NAD M23> Falcon 2024 Limited Edition LS35a & REL T7Xi sub. Synergistic Research Atmosphere Excite SX powers cords>Puritan Audio 156 pwr conditioner W/Ground Master City. Link to comment
ASRMichael Posted May 6, 2020 Share Posted May 6, 2020 9 minutes ago, Vangelis said: What is the cost of a DC3 and how /where can one source It? http://www.custom-hifi-cables.co.uk Link to comment
ken6217 Posted May 6, 2020 Share Posted May 6, 2020 I ordered one from Sean a couple of weeks ago and will be shipping this week. It was about $1300 or so with the conversion rate for one output. He seems like a great guy and he gets back to you almost immediately with any questions. Link to comment
Tait Posted May 17, 2020 Share Posted May 17, 2020 Looking forward to trying the Phoenix with my MK2 Zenith and Active KEF LS50 speaker's. Should hopefully have one for home demo in a couple of weeks. Yes the Phoenix costs more than the KEF's, but if the improvements are worth it, I'll gladly take it! Innuos Zenith MK2, Innuos Phoenix USB re-clocker, KEF LS50 active speakers Link to comment
BigAlMc Posted May 17, 2020 Share Posted May 17, 2020 I'm a bit surprised that the Phoenix isn't getting more attention. Wondering if @austinpop terrific and detailed (as ever Rajiv) review will kickstart more of a conversation around it. When I think about how much enthusiastic chat there was around the ISO Regen and the TX-USBUltra, I expected to see a lot more around the Phoenix. Yeah the price is high but not that high once you factor in PSUs, clocking etc. Are we bored with USB Reclocking? Or anyone got any experience to share with the Phoenix? Cheers, Alan PS Rajivs review is here if anyone missed it: FrankMA 1 Synergistic Research Powercell UEF SE > Sonore OpticalModule (LPS-1.2 & DXP-1A5DSC) > EtherRegen (SR4T & DXP-1A5DSC) > (Sablon 2020 LAN) Innuos PhoenixNet > Muon Streaming System > Grimm Audio MU1 server > (Sablon AES) Mola Mola Tambaqui DAC > PS Audio M1200 monoblocks > Salk Sound Supercharged Songtowers Link to comment
Popular Post Tait Posted May 17, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted May 17, 2020 John Darko has had a Phoenix in for review since April (based on his Instagram account). A review should be on his YouTube account in the next couple of weeks. FrankMA and BigAlMc 1 1 Innuos Zenith MK2, Innuos Phoenix USB re-clocker, KEF LS50 active speakers Link to comment
matthias Posted May 17, 2020 Share Posted May 17, 2020 1 hour ago, BigAlMc said: Are we bored with USB Reclocking? Yes, I am. Matt "I want to know why the musicians are on stage, not where". (John Farlowe) Link to comment
ASRMichael Posted May 17, 2020 Share Posted May 17, 2020 2 hours ago, matthias said: Yes, I am. Matt Boring talking or bored trialling usb reclockers? Link to comment
matthias Posted May 17, 2020 Share Posted May 17, 2020 6 minutes ago, ASRMichael said: Boring talking This one, I simply dislike reclockers. Matt "I want to know why the musicians are on stage, not where". (John Farlowe) Link to comment
ken6217 Posted May 17, 2020 Share Posted May 17, 2020 1 minute ago, matthias said: This one, I simply dislike reclockers. Matt That’s a pretty strange comment. What don’t you like about reclockers?? The fact that they correct the signal? Link to comment
matthias Posted May 17, 2020 Share Posted May 17, 2020 Just now, ken6217 said: That’s a pretty strange comment. What don’t you like about reclockers?? The fact that they correct the signal? I am a "Source First" believer, so IMO when you do the USB host part right, you do not need them. But as always YMMV. Matt "I want to know why the musicians are on stage, not where". (John Farlowe) Link to comment
BigAlMc Posted May 17, 2020 Share Posted May 17, 2020 6 minutes ago, matthias said: This one, I simply dislike reclockers. Matt Mixed signals matey. You know, given the title of this thread 😉 Synergistic Research Powercell UEF SE > Sonore OpticalModule (LPS-1.2 & DXP-1A5DSC) > EtherRegen (SR4T & DXP-1A5DSC) > (Sablon 2020 LAN) Innuos PhoenixNet > Muon Streaming System > Grimm Audio MU1 server > (Sablon AES) Mola Mola Tambaqui DAC > PS Audio M1200 monoblocks > Salk Sound Supercharged Songtowers Link to comment
ken6217 Posted May 17, 2020 Share Posted May 17, 2020 32 minutes ago, matthias said: I am a "Source First" believer, so IMO when you do the USB host part right, you do not need them. But as always YMMV. Matt I don’t make up my mind until I demo something first. The last person that I’m gonna believe is the manufacture saying that their product does USB right, or sounds neutral, etc. etc.. Link to comment
matthias Posted May 17, 2020 Share Posted May 17, 2020 14 minutes ago, ken6217 said: I don’t make up my mind until I demo something first. The last person that I’m gonna believe is the manufacture saying that their product does USB right, or sounds neutral, etc. etc.. So I am sure you do not believe that Phoenix does not improve the USB output of Innuos Statement. Matt "I want to know why the musicians are on stage, not where". (John Farlowe) Link to comment
thyname Posted May 17, 2020 Share Posted May 17, 2020 3 minutes ago, matthias said: So I am sure you do not believe that Phoenix does not improve the USB output of Innuos Statement. Matt On the Statement? It doesn’t . Statement has practically a PhoenixUSB built in. Plus other stuff. Link to comment
matthias Posted May 17, 2020 Share Posted May 17, 2020 2 minutes ago, thyname said: On the Statement? It doesn’t . Statement has practically a PhoenixUSB built in. Plus other stuff. But when two switches in series sound better than one, then maybe two reclockers as well. Matt "I want to know why the musicians are on stage, not where". (John Farlowe) Link to comment
thyname Posted May 17, 2020 Share Posted May 17, 2020 5 minutes ago, matthias said: But when two switches in series sound better than one, then maybe two reclockers as well. Matt I doubt it. And I am not willing to try. If you are curious, you can certainly try for yourself Link to comment
ken6217 Posted May 17, 2020 Share Posted May 17, 2020 11 minutes ago, matthias said: So I am sure you do not believe that Phoenix does not improve the USB output of Innuos Statement. Matt I have no idea. I don’t have the Statement or have ever heard it. I can tell you that I had the Zenith Mk3 and sold it because I didn’t care for the sound. Nice soundstage but too dry sounding. I didn’t have the Phoenix at the same time though. Link to comment
matthias Posted May 17, 2020 Share Posted May 17, 2020 Just now, thyname said: I doubt it. And I am not willing to try. If you are curious, you can certainly try for yourself No interests. AFAIK, the Taiko Extreme uses the USB output from the ASM3142 chipset of its motherboard without reclocker. Matt "I want to know why the musicians are on stage, not where". (John Farlowe) Link to comment
matthias Posted May 17, 2020 Share Posted May 17, 2020 3 minutes ago, ken6217 said: I have no idea. I don’t have the Statement or have ever heard it. I can tell you that I had the Zenith Mk3 and sold it because I didn’t care for the sound. Nice soundstage but too dry sounding. I didn’t have the Phoenix at the same time though. I can not imagine that the Phoenix can cure this. Matt "I want to know why the musicians are on stage, not where". (John Farlowe) Link to comment
ASRMichael Posted May 17, 2020 Share Posted May 17, 2020 14 minutes ago, matthias said: No interests. AFAIK, the Taiko Extreme uses the USB output from the ASM3142 chipset of its motherboard without reclocker. Matt I do wonder if a reclocker would improve the Extreme’s SQ, even the extreme can be improved! Link to comment
ken6217 Posted May 17, 2020 Share Posted May 17, 2020 You don't get it, or the whole premise.. One thing has nothing to do with another. The sound signature of a streamer has thing to do with the USB implementation. I'd venture to guess that the software that a manufacturer uses in their streamer has more to do with the sound Ghan the hardware. Link to comment
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