ALLO USBridge Signature

[Mycenius]

8 hours ago, Cundis said:

Hold your horses in case you like the sound a little bit on the darker side. I did this and over time I noticed a slight lack of midbass punch and openess in the lower midrange. The resolution overall and stereo imaging is a little bit better when mounted on top of the USbridge though. Personally I like a sound balance that has focus on stuff in the lower midrange, I loose interest over time when stuff gets a little bit on the analytical side. This may differ of course with others preferences, just wanted to say some words about my discovery. 

 

Well said - indeed everyone is different (both actual hearing/preferences and also how their environment/personal history has influenced their musical tastes, etc). So some configurations won't suit some peoples tastes.

 

FWIW (as an aside) I used to be focused on lower mid-range too and bass, but also especially having that 'golden' sound (that so many valve and vinyl aficionados quest for) - my beloved Chario speakers (comparable with Sonus Faber) of 15 or so years ago were perfect for this. Then I discovered Focal, and most especially 'W' cone drivers & beryllium tweeters - oh my! FWIW some people class these as bright or too revealing/too detailed or 'lifeless' (your analytical I think @Cundis?) but that has never been a fair analysis IMO, because our personal preferences and past listening experiences taint how we all hear things - in my case (luckily) I realised the potential on day one (demoing in store) and then once my ears adjusted (which took a few weeks of listening) I suddenly realised just how full and complete the sound was and what some people interpreted on first listen as brightness or excessive detail is actually a combination of something highly revealing with clarity and reproduction close to what the original engineer intended.

 

Anyway back on point after 8 years of listening to my current Focals I didn't think it could get any better, and then the Allo USBridge Signature comes along... It's resulted in even clearer reproduction as the original engineer intended, detailed yet full of energy, and things like bass are even tighter (when I thought the 'W' cone drivers couldn't get any better). I'm not using the Digione Signature (so unfortunately can't comment on that), as all I require is a clean USB output to my DAC - but right now after 20 years (in recent times) of actively questing for superb sounding Hi-Fi the USBridge Signature & Focal Studio Monitor 9's is getting pretty close to it for me (and that's a big change from where I started and more importantly what kind of sound I thought I liked). 😊

 

I guess my (general) point (to nobody in particular) is don't be scared to try things different sometimes (if you can) - anyone could be surprised. But also I don't think you'll get a much more 'neutral' (i.e. detailed but with full energy, tight bass, clarity, etc) digital transport than the USBridge Signature + Shanti LPS anywhere at this time IME; and it will possibly result in a different sound for each user depending on the rest of their system (e.g. IMO in some cases it may reveal a weakness or perhaps an incompatibility, elsewhere in their setup; other times it might make other components really sing or shine) - this may not be a bad thing but it depends on what each person's music quest is seeking! As @Cundis says you may want to just try the one for a while before you commit to both @zacho? 😀

[Mycenius]

7 hours ago, Cundis said:

Yes a little bit. I have found my way with Nordost Heimdall 2 on the signal and digital side, and a DIY cable on the DC side. Nordost tends to be very clear, so they will not make the sound darker.

 

FWIW (and not commenting on your choice @Cundis) but I used to be a big Nordost Heimdall fan (ICs and Speaker Cables) but have since dispensed with them - anything with high silver content does 'brighten' the sound unnaturally and usually the people that like them often have big heavy or sluggish speakers - such as Kevlar speaker drivers (or lighter ones like paper with under powered amps, or valve amps, etc) that tend to colour the sound the other way (that rich, deep lower frequency emphasis) - so it's actually just evening out the distortion of the sound - far better to not have either and not colour the sound than be unnaturally colouring it twice. 🙂

 

Luckily for me I run active speakers (studio monitors) - so no more troublesome speaker cabling now - just an IC DAC to Pre-Amp and another longer IC from Pre-Amp to speaker.

 

Currently I'm using a Tchernov cable for my DAC to Pre-Amp and an older Van den Hul IC for my Speaker ICs (don't recall the name but this is one that was top end of their range and was designed for both speaker and microphone use). Both are balanced XLR cables.

[Mycenius]

4 hours ago, Cundis said:

I'm pretty sure it's not my dac. I've been using this, a Wadia di122 for some time now.

 

Just FYI Wadia DACs were traditionally known for being 'dark' IIRC. Although more recent models apparently are considered less so. It may be the Digione Signature is providing a more transparent transport to the DAC allowing it to be it's natural 'colour' while your prior config (sans Digione) is brightening the sound slightly reducing this effect. Just a thought? 🤔

[Mycenius]

3 hours ago, Cundis said:

This is very strange. Maybe the differences in our systems favors some of the frequency spectrums differently. Also sometimes when people are discussing different hifi equipment they can't agree. Maybe it has to with how that equipment is interacting with each single component in the system.

  

Totally! 👍

[Mycenius]

3 hours ago, Cundis said:

Maybe this is because my Elac speakers are very revealing in the upper frequencies...

  

Possibly unlikely (IMO at least) - ELAC's (from what I have read and heard, not personal listening) are considered generally laid back which suggests better at the lower midrange as you prefer (although I know other reviewers have rated some as having a bright signature) - so may not have emphasis on higher frequencies - so you may be on a better track considering the Hegel H300's interaction with Digione & USBridge? But re: my earlier post about people's experiences - your ELACs may have coloured your preference towards lower frequency emphasis if you have had them for a while (at least in your set-up)? 😉 

 

But feel free to correct me. 🙂

[richard_crl032]

23 minutes ago, Mycenius said:

  

Possibly unlikely (IMO at least) - ELAC's (from what I have read and heard, not personal listening) are considered generally laid back which suggests better at the lower midrange as you prefer (although I know other reviewers have rated some as having a bright signature) - so may not have emphasis on higher frequencies - so you may be on a better track considering the Hegel H300's interaction with Digione & USBridge? But re: my earlier post about people's experiences - your ELACs may have coloured your preference towards lower frequency emphasis if you have had them for a while (at least in your set-up)? 😉 

 

But feel free to correct me. 🙂

 

Hi Mycenius,

 

Just to say that elac speakers are often bright and clear.. for those I had heard, they use metal dome tweeters but not sure about the one being discussed here.

 

As for mentioned nordost interconnect also mentioned here, I only have the spm and fil quattro and they are very neutral .. not bright or dark but very clear.

 

Cheers.

 

Richard

 

 

[Mycenius]

1 hour ago, richard_crl032 said:

Just to say that elac speakers are often bright and clear.. for those I had heard, they use metal dome tweeters but not sure about the one being discussed here.

As for mentioned nordost interconnect also mentioned here, I only have the spm and fil quattro and they are very neutral .. not bright or dark but very clear.

 

Yeah all good on the ELACs @richard_crl032 - as mentioned my knowledge of them in the past was the 'laid back' description but a google at the time I posted comment brought up the bright thing - the two are quite incompatible so not sure how they got the reputation I knew - unless they changed to the metal tweeters sometime in recent years...? Anyway may have been a bit off the mark with that comment... 😞

 

Re: Nordost - yes can believe so - as mentioned my experience was primarily with high end Heimdall speaker cables & ICs and these had a high silver content - they were very clear and detailed sounding at first listen but after a while became apparent they were colouring the sound. Their cables with a higher copper component likely are much more neutral (which I presume the ones you mention are, as opposed to silver or what has now replaced the Heimdalls)... 

 

With the USBridge Signature (and possibly Digione Sig) in a chain I think it increases the visibility of any effect from other components down stream, so colouring and brightness (or darkness) may become more apparent than previous once implemented IMO... 🙂

[Cundis]

I've read all your posts about my findings and thoughts, I'll reply as soon as I have some spare time! 

[Mycenius]

7 hours ago, Cundis said:

I've read all your posts about my findings and thoughts, I'll reply as soon as I have some spare time! 

 

👍

 

P.S. keen to hear how you find the difference sans any Allo device (USBridge or Digione) in your system versus when you have them? Did you post this already (sorry I missed some of the chat over Christmas and in January/some of February)?

[nbpf]

13 hours ago, Mycenius said:

 

👍

 

P.S. keen to hear how you find the difference sans any Allo device (USBridge or Digione) in your system versus when you have them? Did you post this already (sorry I missed some of the chat over Christmas and in January/some of February)?

How shall the difference with and without DigiOne be assessed if a system has only SPDIF inputs?

[Cundis]

The differences with and without Digione / USbridge Sig is more of that mastertape feeling. Getting closer to the music, deeper into the recording sessions. A bigger and deeper stereo image is also what I gain with Digione or USbridge. 

 

When it comes to the Elac speakers I think they are somewhat laidback in the frequency balance, but, and this is a big but, the resolution of the Jet V folded ribbon tweeter is very high and reveals everything of what is recorded. So that's why I call them very revealing.

I too am a fan of Focal @Mycenius, so my comparison goes towards them. I've had JM lab Electra 936 speakers for almost 20 years and love the dynamics, especially in the midrange. I miss those midrange drivers alot, while the old tweeters in 936 could be somewhat hard on the ears sometimes. I also had the Electra SW900 subwoofer, and it was a system I liked alot. Except for the tweeter qualities I mentioned.

 

As some of you here have said, the Elac's focus is on the lower midrange, so they fit my taste. They also balance good against the Hegel H300 which is more revealing than laidback. The Wadia dac is smooth with very good resolution. It's actually a little bit brighter than the integrated dac in the Hegel H300, but it does sound smooth at the same time. I like it a lot better than my old Primare DAC 30. 

 

I think the reason why I get the result I get with more bass impact and slightly darker sound from the Digione vs USbridge has to do with how everything interacts in my system. But I like the Digione Sig mounted on top of USbridge a lot too, don't get me wrong. It has somewhat better resolution from mid midrange and up imo, and is maybe a little bit more silent.

Now I'm in the process of weighing pros against cons, so there is no final conclusion yet on this subject. 

[Mycenius]

5 hours ago, Cundis said:

The differences with and without Digione / USbridge Sig is more of that mastertape feeling. Getting closer to the music, deeper into the recording sessions. A bigger and deeper stereo image is also what I gain with Digione or USbridge. When it comes to the Elac speakers I think they are somewhat laidback in the frequency balance, but, and this is a big but, the resolution of the Jet V folded ribbon tweeter is very high and reveals everything of what is recorded. So that's why I call them very revealing. I too am a fan of Focal @Mycenius, so my comparison goes towards them. I've had JM lab Electra 936 speakers for almost 20 years and love the dynamics, especially in the midrange. I miss those midrange drivers alot, while the old tweeters in 936 could be somewhat hard on the ears sometimes. I also had the Electra SW900 subwoofer, and it was a system I liked alot. Except for the tweeter qualities I mentioned...

  

Nice (re: Electra's - although IIRC they are the ones pre-beryllium tweeters, and possibly pre-"W"-cone drivers too - the beryllium will completely change your opinion - nothing, and I mean nothing, compares).

 

And yes you comment is on the money IMO re: USBridge Signature @Cundis - that's certainly been similar to my first impression (and my initial ongoing one) as a result of having it and the Shanti in my system... Just when I couldn't imagine getting 'closer' as you say (more detail, more nuances, more 'inside' the music) and yet retaining all the dynamics/energy, and a balanced full range of sound (frequencies) - I have. 🙂

[Mycenius]

9 hours ago, nbpf said:

How shall the difference with and without DigiOne be assessed if a system has only SPDIF inputs?

 

For most people it will be how did your existing system sound versus once you added in the USBridge and/or Digione @nbpf. As we are talking transports (S/PDIF for Digione and Asynchronous USB for USBridge) it's always going to require comparison to an existing method or device. Usually people choose to upgrade because either (a) they know (or believe) there is a possible weakness in their system (typical a frequency range that subjectively sounds worse than the rest), (b) they need to make a hardware change regardless (e.g. in my case I wished to remove my existing Vortexbox Server from my Hi-Fi rack which was providing my USB transport to my DAC), or (c) despite having a system they are happy with they are enticed to try a change due to the glowing reviews or similar from other music enthusiasts/audiophiles. In all cases you can at least subjectively compare your existing sound/output to the new... 🙂

[richard_crl032]

On 3/10/2020 at 3:01 AM, Mycenius said:

 

Well said - indeed everyone is different (both actual hearing/preferences and also how their environment/personal history has influenced their musical tastes, etc). So some configurations won't suit some peoples tastes.

 

FWIW (as an aside) I used to be focused on lower mid-range too and bass, but also especially having that 'golden' sound (that so many valve and vinyl aficionados quest for) - my beloved Chario speakers (comparable with Sonus Faber) of 15 or so years ago were perfect for this. Then I discovered Focal, and most especially 'W' cone drivers & beryllium tweeters - oh my! FWIW some people class these as bright or too revealing/too detailed or 'lifeless' (your analytical I think @Cundis?) but that has never been a fair analysis IMO, because our personal preferences and past listening experiences taint how we all hear things - in my case (luckily) I realised the potential on day one (demoing in store) and then once my ears adjusted (which took a few weeks of listening) I suddenly realised just how full and complete the sound was and what some people interpreted on first listen as brightness or excessive detail is actually a combination of something highly revealing with clarity and reproduction close to what the original engineer intended.

 

Anyway back on point after 8 years of listening to my current Focals I didn't think it could get any better, and then the Allo USBridge Signature comes along... It's resulted in even clearer reproduction as the original engineer intended, detailed yet full of energy, and things like bass are even tighter (when I thought the 'W' cone drivers couldn't get any better). I'm not using the Digione Signature (so unfortunately can't comment on that), as all I require is a clean USB output to my DAC - but right now after 20 years (in recent times) of actively questing for superb sounding Hi-Fi the USBridge Signature & Focal Studio Monitor 9's is getting pretty close to it for me (and that's a big change from where I started and more importantly what kind of sound I thought I liked). 😊

 

I guess my (general) point (to nobody in particular) is don't be scared to try things different sometimes (if you can) - anyone could be surprised. But also I don't think you'll get a much more 'neutral' (i.e. detailed but with full energy, tight bass, clarity, etc) digital transport than the USBridge Signature + Shanti LPS anywhere at this time IME; and it will possibly result in a different sound for each user depending on the rest of their system (e.g. IMO in some cases it may reveal a weakness or perhaps an incompatibility, elsewhere in their setup; other times it might make other components really sing or shine) - this may not be a bad thing but it depends on what each person's music quest is seeking! As @Cundis says you may want to just try the one for a while before you commit to both @zacho? 😀

 

Hi Mycenius,

 

Wonder how usb bridge compares to any of Aurender products especially with their caching via ssd ?

 

Think usb bridge is great for its $ but may not compare as favorably ... hope to report back in near future.

 

Cheers.

 

Richard

[pl_svn]

28 minutes ago, richard_crl032 said:

Wonder how usb bridge compares to any of Aurender

 

read, on Roon forum, someone stating he sold his Aurender (... N100, I believe) after getting the USBridge Sig

personally... I have it in my secondary system and I'm pretty scared of trying it in my main system too (where a Lumin U1 Mini is)

 

can add, though, that... tried it as standalone streamer, with both Volumio and Moode, and found it to be nowhere close to when using it as Roon endpoint with RoPieee

 

YMMV

[Mycenius]

3 minutes ago, richard_crl032 said:

Hi Mycenius,

Wonder how usb bridge compares to any of Aurender product especially with their caching via ssd ?

Cheers.

Richard

 

Can't comment myself Richard - but often devices like the Aurender music servers are essentially a 'Vortexbox' (linux based running LMS and some peripheral streaming apps like DLNA, PLEX, etc) with a software face lift and a custom hardware build. Their smaller transports/converters I'd assume aren't dissimilar to Allo's in that regard - but have not seen any in person, and to be frank I'm a bit sceptical these days of most music server vendors (I think there is too much smoke and mirrors). I originally built my own Vortexbox for this reason about 2011-2012 (only moving part was a conventional HDD, and I eventually relied on a SoTM tX USB Card for my output, originally having ASUS Xonar Essence STX providing S/PDIF - I planned to have a custom LPSU built but never got around to it). If you are bored you can read my numerous blog posts on it here: The Auricular Antipodean: A Dedicated Music Server Journey (Part 1)

 

I like that Allo are clear and open about their logic/design, the proven measurable tests/outcome, and that the final output result from their components despite that, is still subjective - something many music server & transport manufacturers gloss over or obfuscate.

[Cundis]

2 hours ago, Mycenius said:

  

Nice (re: Electra's - although IIRC they are the ones pre-beryllium tweeters, and possibly pre-"W"-cone drivers too - the beryllium will completely change your opinion - nothing, and I mean nothing, compares).

Yes they are pre beryllium, called tioxid tweeters. And they are a little bit hard sounding, and doesn't have the best resolution. The rest of the drivers however are "W" - cone. I absolutely love that material. Never heard more realistic midrange. 

One day I might end up with newer Electra's who have beryllium tweeter. I really miss those "W" - cone drivers. 

[Mycenius]

20 hours ago, Cundis said:

One day I might end up with newer Electra's who have beryllium tweeter. I really miss those "W" - cone drivers. 

 

I can confirm the USBridge Signature performs amazingly in conjunction with the "W"-Cones & Beryllium! 😁

[dontfeedphils]

1 minute ago, Mycenius said:

 

I can confirm the USBridge Signature performs amazingly in conjunction with the "W"-Cones & Beryllium! 😁

 

Can't say that I've heard their speakers unfortunately, but I definitely enjoy them in my pair of Utopia (headphones).

 

While I'm here I'll stop and sing Allo's praises because adding the Digione Signature/USBridge Signature/Shanti combo to my setup (Roon > Chord Hugo2 > Utopia) has easily been one of the best changes I've made thus far.  I've been able to lower my normal listening volume by literally half because there's just so much more low level detail I'm able to hear without cranking it up.

 

There's also a huge increase in PRaT for me.  I'm instantly pulled into the music at an emotional level that I hadn't experienced previously.

[Mycenius]

6 minutes ago, dontfeedphils said:

Can't say that I've heard their speakers unfortunately, but I definitely enjoy them in my pair of Utopia (headphones).

 

While I'm here I'll stop and sing Allo's praises because adding the Digione Signature/USBridge Signature/Shanti combo to my setup (Roon > Chord Hugo2 > Utopia) has easily been one of the best changes I've made thus far.

  

Nice!

 

And double Nice! It's great when things come together! And I concur with your "because there's just so much more low level detail I'm able to hear without cranking it up" comment @dontfeedphils - given I already had a lot of that with my Vortexbox and Focal SM9s I am impressed that it has been enhanced by the USBridge Signature + Shanti being added to my setup.

[rael71]

Hello,

I have USBridge+shanti and use it with Roon but I have two different problems.

1) USBridge with DietPi I tried with prenstalled version and recently with the most updated Version (6.28.x) but I have regular clicks and pops both with PCM and DSD files

2) I switched to RooPie and it works witout clicks and pops but after some playing times the system I get continuous noise burst (with PCM I have only noise and not music and with DSD I have low level noise under music).I already can say that it's not my DAC because I tried with two different DACs (same brand Denafrips but different model Pontus and Terminator) with the same results. The DAC seems to keep the signal (LED stay the same). Previously I used USBridge previous version with Pontus and I had no clicks/pops or noise bursts problem.

 

This is my setup

Roon on Windows 10 > USBridge Sig+Santi > Intona USB > Denafrips Terminator/Pontus. Usually I use upsampling to DSD 256 but I have problems with every configuration (different upsampling, no upsampling, DoP/Native...)

 

Can you help me please?

 

Thank you

 

Andrea

[clipper]

1 hour ago, rael71 said:

Hello,

I have USBridge+shanti and use it with Roon but I have two different problems.

1) USBridge with DietPi I tried with prenstalled version and recently with the most updated Version (6.28.x) but I have regular clicks and pops both with PCM and DSD files

2) I switched to RooPie and it works witout clicks and pops but after some playing times the system I get continuous noise burst (with PCM I have only noise and not music and with DSD I have low level noise under music).I already can say that it's not my DAC because I tried with two different DACs (same brand Denafrips but different model Pontus and Terminator) with the same results. The DAC seems to keep the signal (LED stay the same). Previously I used USBridge previous version with Pontus and I had no clicks/pops or noise bursts problem.

 

This is my setup

Roon on Windows 10 > USBridge Sig+Santi > Intona USB > Denafrips Terminator/Pontus. Usually I use upsampling to DSD 256 but I have problems with every configuration (different upsampling, no upsampling, DoP/Native...)

 

Can you help me please?

 

Thank you

 

Andrea

My best suggestion is to try different software (running on the USBridge).

 

I recommend GentooPlayer.  Go to http://gentooplayer.com.  Click on Download.  Download the most current version (which, as of today, is 2.10).  

 

If you need help, just ask.  In your case, you should be able to get going just by setting the audio output to USB DAC, and starting RoonBridge.

 

I don't normally run like this, but I just tried running RoonBridge and upsampling everything to DSD256, and it's working flawlessly.  

 

GentooPlayer has the latest Ethernet driver built in (ASIX v2.0.0).  

 

 

[ambre]

3 hours ago, rael71 said:

Hello,

I have USBridge+shanti and use it with Roon but I have two different problems.

1) USBridge with DietPi I tried with prenstalled version and recently with the most updated Version (6.28.x) but I have regular clicks and pops both with PCM and DSD files

2) I switched to RooPie and it works witout clicks and pops but after some playing times the system I get continuous noise burst (with PCM I have only noise and not music and with DSD I have low level noise under music).I already can say that it's not my DAC because I tried with two different DACs (same brand Denafrips but different model Pontus and Terminator) with the same results. The DAC seems to keep the signal (LED stay the same). Previously I used USBridge previous version with Pontus and I had no clicks/pops or noise bursts problem.

 

This is my setup

Roon on Windows 10 > USBridge Sig+Santi > Intona USB > Denafrips Terminator/Pontus. Usually I use upsampling to DSD 256 but I have problems with every configuration (different upsampling, no upsampling, DoP/Native...)

 

Can you help me please?

 

Thank you

 

Andrea

4.19.97 and all is the kernel version of the OS's, 

 

You can download and flash Dietpi 6.26 version from below link and flash the image using Etcher tool.

 

http://3.230.113.73:9011/Allocom/DietPi/DietPi_v6.26m1_RPi-ARMv7-Stretch_AlloGUI.img.7z
 

go back to this version.Apperently ten 6,28 doesn’t have the latest kernel (?)

regards, Andreas

 

[ambre]

6 minutes ago, ambre said:

4.19.97 and all is the kernel version of the OS's, 

 

You can download and flash Dietpi 6.26 version from below link and flash the image using Etcher tool.

 

http://3.230.113.73:9011/Allocom/DietPi/DietPi_v6.26m1_RPi-ARMv7-Stretch_AlloGUI.img.7z
 

go back to this version.Apperently ten 6,28 doesn’t have the latest kernel (?)

regards, Andreas

 

10

   On 2/10/2020 at 11:22 AM,  shang_2000 said: 

My dietpi shows 6.28. Can I upgrade the network card driver separately?@Audio_Allo

You can update USBridge signature Asix network driver ,Please find the steps below.

 

ssh or terminal login using OS credentials

cd /usr/src/

wget http://3.230.113.73:9011/Allocom/asix2v0/install.sh

sh install.sh

[rael71]

1 hour ago, ambre said:

4.19.97 and all is the kernel version of the OS's, 

 

You can download and flash Dietpi 6.26 version from below link and flash the image using Etcher tool.

 

http://3.230.113.73:9011/Allocom/DietPi/DietPi_v6.26m1_RPi-ARMv7-Stretch_AlloGUI.img.7z
 

go back to this version.Apperently ten 6,28 doesn’t have the latest kernel (?)

regards, Andreas

 

It's the version I installed but after that I updated OS. So I can't update the OS?

 

1 hour ago, ambre said:

10

   On 2/10/2020 at 11:22 AM,  shang_2000 said: 

My dietpi shows 6.28. Can I upgrade the network card driver separately?@Audio_Allo

You can update USBridge signature Asix network driver ,Please find the steps below.

 

ssh or terminal login using OS credentials

cd /usr/src/

wget http://3.230.113.73:9011/Allocom/asix2v0/install.sh

sh install.sh

I can't understand if the last part is for me. If it's for me do you mean that I can use 6.28 updating the driver with thay procedure?

 

Thank for your help

Bye

Andrea