ALLO USBridge Signature

[dkskl]

3 minutes ago, Richard Dale said:

You would need to give the LMS Pi and PCP Pi static addresses of something like 10.0.0.1 and 10.0.0.2 with a netmask of 255.255.255.0 and it should just work. But you wouldn't be able to access the internet from the USBridge Pi. If it is only for occasional OS updates, it might be easiest to temporarily move the USBridge near your router and connect with an ethernet cable to do the updates. Alternatively, you could use a WiFi USB dongle on the front USB port to connect to the internet. You would need to run Samba or NFS with the ethernet cable IP address of the LMS of '10.0.0.1' on the USBridge.

 

 

Thanks Richard, but you lost me there 😄

I know next to nothing about handling IP addresses and all things related.

 

But you're right, I could just move the USBridge and connect it to my router for the occasional update.

 

I do run Samba on my present Allo Digione Signature.

[Richard Dale]

16 minutes ago, dkskl said:

Thanks Richard, but you lost me there 😄

I know next to nothing about handling IP addresses and all things related.

 

But you're right, I could just move the USBridge and connect it to my router for the occasional update.

 

I do run Samba on my present Allo Digione Signature.

I would personally just try running the USBridge with a WiFi dongle so it would be on the same LAN as your router and LMS machine, and not bother with the ethernet cable. The Volumio team believe that a WiFi connection sounds better than wired ethernet AFAIK, and so the sound may even be better with a WiFi connection or at least the same as wired.

[dkskl]

1 hour ago, Richard Dale said:

I would personally just try running the USBridge with a WiFi dongle so it would be on the same LAN as your router and LMS machine, and not bother with the ethernet cable. The Volumio team believe that a WiFi connection sounds better than wired ethernet AFAIK, and so the sound may even be better with a WiFi connection or at least the same as wired.

Hmm. I'm quite sure Allo do not recommend wireless when using the USBridge as an endpoint if best possible sound quality is wanted. Hence my "alternative" set up wish, where network connection is only needed to control LMS (and updating PCP).

 

I believed it would be pretty much plug and play. But if it's not, I guess I'll have to put a purchase on stand by and find time to run some in-wall ethernet cables. Sadly it won't be in the near future though.

 

See if I can find some info about wifi dongles an sound quality further back in the thread..

 

Thanks Richard.

[zackthedog]

Another possibility would be to get a wireless bridge and a network switch.  Connect the switch to the bridge, then connect the LMS server and the Digione to the switch.  That way they will share a wired connection but both will also have access to your home internet.

[Richard Dale]

2 minutes ago, dkskl said:

Hmm. I'm quite sure Allo do not recommend wireless when using the USBridge as an endpoint if best possible sound quality is wanted. Hence my "alternative" set up wish, where network connection is only needed to control LMS (and updating PCP).

 

I believed it would be pretty much plug and play. But if it's not, I guess I'll have to put a purchase on stand by and find time to run some in-wall ethernet cables. Sadly it won't be in the near future though.

 

See if I can find some info about wifi dongles an sound quality further back in the thread..

 

Thanks Richard.

You can connect the LMS and USBridge with a wired ethernet connection use it just for Samba access to the files on the LMS using IP address 10.0.0.1. Then have a WiFi dongle on the USBridge that is just used to access the MPD or Squeezelite player in the USBridge to control which tracks you want to play via an ordinary address on your LAN such as 192.168.1.23. That way the LMS server would work like it was a local hard disk, although over Samba while the WiFi connection over the dongle controlled what was being played.

[dkskl]

31 minutes ago, zackthedog said:

Another possibility would be to get a wireless bridge and a network switch.  Connect the switch to the bridge, then connect the LMS server and the Digione to the switch.  That way they will share a wired connection but both will also have access to your home internet.

Could just be the solution.

Thanks ztd

[dkskl]

26 minutes ago, Richard Dale said:

You can connect the LMS and USBridge with a wired ethernet connection use it just for Samba access to the files on the LMS using IP address 10.0.0.1. Then have a WiFi dongle on the USBridge that is just used to access the MPD or Squeezelite player in the USBridge to control which tracks you want to play via an ordinary address on your LAN such as 192.168.1.23. That way the LMS server would work like it was a local hard disk, although over Samba while the WiFi connection over the dongle controlled what was being played.

That would be way to complicated for me 😉 My skills are not even rudimentary.

[Richard Dale]

1 minute ago, dkskl said:

That would be way to complicated for me 😉 My skills are not even rudimentary.

It’s not complicated, only that I might not have explained it in a clear enough manner. I see no reason to hold off buying a USBridge if the only problem is doing what I just suggested - there are a large number of people who can help with setting up Raspberry Pis and help you get the configuration going.

[zackthedog]

1 hour ago, dkskl said:

Could just be the solution.

Thanks ztd

 

The TOTOLINK N300 even has four ethernet ports so you could dispense with the switch.  There are other similar devices, that one gets pretty good reviews.  Of course, it's probably not an "audiophile" quality switch, if you care about that. 😉.   Either way, that's probably the easiest solution.

[gstew]

@Heckyman and anyone else interested,

The SD Card Players such as the SDTrans384 and DIY'd ones based on inexpensive ones from EBay CAN provide a very good I2S source for feeding an I2S-connected DAC, either DIY or the few commercially available ones. In addition, the SDTrans384 includes a wired S/PDIF output and a PS Audio-style I2S-over-HDMI cable output for use with other DACs. AND with a bit of DIY work you can add those to the inexpensive EBay units.

Benefits CAN BE a top-notch I2S feed for great sound. Of course that is all dependent on power supplies, clocks, good (and for native I2S, SHORT!) signal routing, and other implementation details. Use of one of these is not by itself a guarantee of good results.

Drawbacks are due to the limited source material you can fit on an SD Card... typically the units will operate with 32Gb or 64Gb cards max. AND the SDTrans384 won't read compressed files, which for PCM limits you to non-compressed WAV files. I have a likely mid-sized library of roughly 1.5Tb of music files, most in FLAC, so roughly 2Tb uncompressed. You have to deal with making the music you want to hear available to use on the player, which can be setting up a process for easily copying it to an SD card or pre-loading a bunch of cards with your preferred music and cataloging which card contains what. Definitely back to the stone-age (or vinyl / CD age) for content management. AND they don't support streaming at all, though with some care and advanced DIY'ing, I suspect you can create a setup that supports both.

As I've posted here and other places, I implemented an SDTrans384 setup in an effort to get a good reference for my DIY efforts. It has served well in that capacity for several years. In my thirst for the best sound, I'd put up with limited and kludgy access to my music library. Over that time some upgrades to both the SDTrans384 and the attached Soekris DAM DAC along with the attendant power supplies have kept them at the forefront. In Mid-2018 I modified a couple RPi 2B with LDOVR.COM's RPi Mezzanine board to replace the RPi's DC-DC converters with good linear regulation, I felt that setup with the best power supplies I then used put an RPi-based network player at roughly the same level as the SDTrans384 sourced setup when used with basic power supplies. While that configuration didn't challenge the SDT/SDD combo's sonic supremacy in my setups, it was getting into the same range.

My recent moves to the USBBridge Signature as an RPi replacement AND Uptone Audio's EtherRegen as my switch have together made such a difference that I suspect once I take the time to compare the SDTrans84-connected Soekris DAC setup to my RPi/USBBridge Sig-connected one, now the SQ difference may be so small that the limitations and headaches of using the SD-Card players may no longer be worthwhile. I'll try that sometime next year and report back.


More info:

SDTrans384:

https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digital-source/142562-microsd-memory-card-transport-project.html

https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/group-buys/260565-gb-sdtrans384-micro-sd-card-digital-transport.html?highlight=sdtrans384

http://www.tirnahifi.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=3705


Other SDCard Players:

http://www.tirnahifi.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=3750&start=20

http://www.tirnahifi.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=4541

https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digital-source/285630-sd-card-memory-flac-wav-192-24-player-ess-crescendo-ii-ak4495-dv20a.html

https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/55533-audiophile-sd-card-transport/page/6/

https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/55818-qls-quloos-qa361-dap-as-servertransportplayer/?tab=comments

http://www.tirnahifi.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=4682

https://www.ecdesigns.nl/en/ (currently offering USB-Stick players, used to offer SD Card Players)


Greg in Mississippi

[zackthedog]

1 hour ago, gstew said:

@Heckyman and anyone else interested,

The SD Card Players such as the SDTrans384 and DIY'd ones based on inexpensive ones from EBay CAN provide a very good I2S source for feeding an I2S-connected DAC, either DIY or the few commercially available ones. In addition, the SDTrans384 includes a wired S/PDIF output and a PS Audio-style I2S-over-HDMI cable output for use with other DACs. AND with a bit of DIY work you can add those to the inexpensive EBay units.

Benefits CAN BE a top-notch I2S feed for great sound. Of course that is all dependent on power supplies, clocks, good (and for native I2S, SHORT!) signal routing, and other implementation details. Use of one of these is not by itself a guarantee of good results.

Drawbacks are due to the limited source material you can fit on an SD Card... typically the units will operate with 32Gb or 64Gb cards max. AND the SDTrans384 won't read compressed files, which for PCM limits you to non-compressed WAV files. I have a likely mid-sized library of roughly 1.5Tb of music files, most in FLAC, so roughly 2Tb uncompressed. You have to deal with making the music you want to hear available to use on the player, which can be setting up a process for easily copying it to an SD card or pre-loading a bunch of cards with your preferred music and cataloging which card contains what. Definitely back to the stone-age (or vinyl / CD age) for content management. AND they don't support streaming at all, though with some care and advanced DIY'ing, I suspect you can create a setup that supports both.

As I've posted here and other places, I implemented an SDTrans384 setup in an effort to get a good reference for my DIY efforts. It has served well in that capacity for several years. In my thirst for the best sound, I'd put up with limited and kludgy access to my music library. Over that time some upgrades to both the SDTrans384 and the attached Soekris DAM DAC along with the attendant power supplies have kept them at the forefront. In Mid-2018 I modified a couple RPi 2B with LDOVR.COM's RPi Mezzanine board to replace the RPi's DC-DC converters with good linear regulation, I felt that setup with the best power supplies I then used put an RPi-based network player at roughly the same level as the SDTrans384 sourced setup when used with basic power supplies. While that configuration didn't challenge the SDT/SDD combo's sonic supremacy in my setups, it was getting into the same range.

My recent moves to the USBBridge Signature as an RPi replacement AND Uptone Audio's EtherRegen as my switch have together made such a difference that I suspect once I take the time to compare the SDTrans84-connected Soekris DAC setup to my RPi/USBBridge Sig-connected one, now the SQ difference may be so small that the limitations and headaches of using the SD-Card players may no longer be worthwhile. I'll try that sometime next year and report back.


More info:

SDTrans384:

https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digital-source/142562-microsd-memory-card-transport-project.html

https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/group-buys/260565-gb-sdtrans384-micro-sd-card-digital-transport.html?highlight=sdtrans384

http://www.tirnahifi.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=3705


Other SDCard Players:

http://www.tirnahifi.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=3750&start=20

http://www.tirnahifi.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=4541

https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digital-source/285630-sd-card-memory-flac-wav-192-24-player-ess-crescendo-ii-ak4495-dv20a.html

https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/55533-audiophile-sd-card-transport/page/6/

https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/55818-qls-quloos-qa361-dap-as-servertransportplayer/?tab=comments

http://www.tirnahifi.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=4682

https://www.ecdesigns.nl/en/ (currently offering USB-Stick players, used to offer SD Card Players)


Greg in Mississippi

 

Thanks for the update, Greg, this is very interesting stuff.  

 

This morning it occurred to me to connect the Allo USBridge Sig/DigiOne Sig box directly to my Mac MIni with an ethernet bridge.  I haven't always found this to be an improvement but it definitely was here.  I'm sure there are more tweaks to try but I'm very, very happy with the Allo.

[nbpf]

6 hours ago, dkskl said:

Yes. I want to connect the RPI/LMS via WIFI and then connect the RPI to the USBridge via ethernet cable.

My only concern is, if I will be able to reach the PCP OS insalled on the USBridge for setting/updates, if I connect the devices like this 🙂

 

This works fine but you have to setup the RPi that runs LMS to act as an access point for the USBridge. Just search for "RPi access point" and you will find a lot of documentation. I have used this one  https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=191453 to set up an RPi as a wireless access point. You will have to do that the other way round, provide wired access and reroute the packages that come from the wired USBridge to the wireless interface. It is pretty much straightforward.

[zackthedog]

Had a very sharped-eared musician friend over for a listening session today, someone whose ears I absolutely trust.  He preferred the Allo USB output to the coax, and I can understand why.  It is a bit more natural, though he admitted that the coax output had more "weight" and accuracy.  So I suppose it depends on your goals and sonic tastes.  We did compare the Allo to a straight USB from the Mac Mini.  The straight USB connection is a jolly sound, not bad at all, but the Allo adds clarity and refinement, so I'm resting comfortable with my purchase.  We did, however, have to switch to Volumio because Moode still has problems with very hi-res files, pops and glitches.  Volumio sounds fine, but I hope they get this kernel thing straightened out across the board so one has more options.

[bobfa]

On 12/11/2019 at 3:30 AM, allo.com said:

if you have some pops/clicks please switch to Moode using kernel 4.14 . That should remove any clicks you hear

I am on MoOde 6.4.  How do you change the kernel to 4.14?

 

 

[Audio_Allo]

51 minutes ago, bobfa said:

I am on MoOde 6.4.  How do you change the kernel to 4.14?

 

 

You can download USBridgeSig 4.14.92 kernel based Moode OS from below link

 

http://3.230.113.73:9011/Allocom/moode/4.14.92-OS/moode-r531-rpi-41492.img.7z

[dkskl]

15 hours ago, Richard Dale said:

It’s not complicated, only that I might not have explained it in a clear enough manner. I see no reason to hold off buying a USBridge if the only problem is doing what I just suggested - there are a large number of people who can help with setting up Raspberry Pis and help you get the configuration going.

Oh, I'm sure you have explained very well. It's just that it is almost like chinese algebra to me, to paraphrase Tom Waits.

 

Yes. People here really are very helpful! And it seems there are several ways to make it work

I'll place the order and return to the forum, when I have received the goods. Thanks.

[dkskl]

14 hours ago, zackthedog said:

 

The TOTOLINK N300 even has four ethernet ports so you could dispense with the switch.  There are other similar devices, that one gets pretty good reviews.  Of course, it's probably not an "audiophile" quality switch, if you care about that. 😉.   Either way, that's probably the easiest solution.

I have googled the TotoLink N300, but I can only see one ethernet port on the unit...

Do you by any chance have a link..? 

[dkskl]

12 hours ago, nbpf said:

This works fine but you have to setup the RPi that runs LMS to act as an access point for the USBridge. Just search for "RPi access point" and you will find a lot of documentation. I have used this one  https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=191453 to set up an RPi as a wireless access point. You will have to do that the other way round, provide wired access and reroute the packages that come from the wired USBridge to the wireless interface. It is pretty much straightforward.

Interesting. So it should be doable without connecting extra hardware...

 

Just had a deeper look at the PCP user interface. And lo and behold, there is an option to set it up as a WAP, just by clicking a button.

Could it be that easy..?

[zackthedog]

7 hours ago, dkskl said:

I have googled the TotoLink N300, but I can only see one ethernet port on the unit...

Do you by any chance have a link..? 

 

I was looking at this one:

 

https://www.amazon.com/TOTOLINK-N300RT-Access-Wireless-300Mbps/dp/B01F5JYBTQ/ref=sr_1_2?keywords=Totolink+n300&qid=1576508273&sr=8-2

[zackthedog]

19 hours ago, Audio_Allo said:

You can download USBridgeSig 4.14.92 kernel based Moode OS from below link

 

http://3.230.113.73:9011/Allocom/moode/4.14.92-OS/moode-r531-rpi-41492.img.7z

 

Thank you!

[blighter]

I would like to get Digione Signature Player (+Shanti), but I have no clue which Pi verision to get: 3B+ or 4B? Could more knowlegable members advise please? Is there any reason to go with 4B? I have read that 4B might be affecting SQ negatively? Is this true with Digione Signature?

 

I'm not sure also which system to go with. My primary goal is Tidal integration so I guess Volumio is the best choice? SQ abviously also a huge priority.

 

thanks.

[dontfeedphils]

1 minute ago, blighter said:

I would like to get Digione Signature Player (+Shanti), but I have no clue which Pi verision to get: 3B+ or 4B? Could more knowlegable members advise please? Is there any reason to go with 4B? I have read that 4B might be affecting SQ negatively? Is this true with Digione Signature?

 

I'm not sure also which system to go with. My primary goal is Tidal integration so I guess Volumio is the best choice? SQ abviously also a huge priority.

 

thanks.

 

Volumio is alright, but I ran into enough issues with it's Tidal integration that I just bit the bullet and invested in Roon, a decision I'm very happy with.  (Running Ropiee with Roon)

[nbpf]

2 hours ago, blighter said:

I would like to get Digione Signature Player (+Shanti), but I have no clue which Pi verision to get: 3B+ or 4B? Could more knowlegable members advise please? Is there any reason to go with 4B? I have read that 4B might be affecting SQ negatively? Is this true with Digione Signature?

 

I'm not sure also which system to go with. My primary goal is Tidal integration so I guess Volumio is the best choice? SQ abviously also a huge priority.

 

thanks.

I use a DigiOne Signature with an RPi 3B+ running upmpdcli (and thus MPD) in a minimal Raspbian Lite installation. upmpdcli (https://www.lesbonscomptes.com/upmpdcli/) gives you Tidal (and Qobuz, Google music, etc.) integration. No need to use Volumio, DietPi or other so-called audiophile distributions. I typically fix the CPU frequency to 1GHz and switch off HDMI, bluetooth, the internal sound card, wired Ethernet and the USB bus on the RPi that hosts the DigiOne Signature. This reduces the power consumption of the RPi (3B+) + DigiOne Signature combo to about 300 mA. It sounds very good to me. Best, nbpf   

[bobfa]

On 12/15/2019 at 11:45 PM, Audio_Allo said:

You can download USBridgeSig 4.14.92 kernel based Moode OS from below link

 

http://3.230.113.73:9011/Allocom/moode/4.14.92-OS/moode-r531-rpi-41492.img.7z

Ok thanks that is the 5.3.1 version Got it.

 

 

[blighter]

3 hours ago, nbpf said:

I use a DigiOne Signature with an RPi 3B+ running upmpdcli (and thus MPD) in a minimal Raspbian Lite installation. upmpdcli (https://www.lesbonscomptes.com/upmpdcli/) gives you Tidal (and Qobuz, Google music, etc.) integration. No need to use Volumio, DietPi or other so-called audiophile distributions. I typically fix the CPU frequency to 1GHz and switch off HDMI, bluetooth, the internal sound card, wired Ethernet and the USB bus on the RPi that hosts the DigiOne Signature. This reduces the power consumption of the RPi (3B+) + DigiOne Signature combo to about 300 mA. It sounds very good to me. Best, nbpf   

thanks, I'll give it a shot if it's not over my IT capabilities.

I guess the more important question is still RPi 3B+ vs RPi 4B. Any thoughts on this?