Matrix Audio X-Sabre Pro MQA

[Josh Mound]

 

3 minutes ago, pkane2001 said:

 

I have personal, first-hand information about forums that are run by extreme subjectivists, where you get banned for mentioning measurements or blind tests. As I said, I'd rather not go down the path of naming them. It was not a pleasant experience but I'm not a vindictive type of person.

 

Why can't you specify which forum you're speaking of so that we can debate whether that's the case?

 

By the way, I'll be reviewing the Matrix for Audiophile Style, for those who'd like a subjective review. 😊

[pkane2001]

1 minute ago, JoshM said:

Why can't you specify which forum you're speaking of so that we can debate whether that's the case?

 

Precisely because I don't want to be part of this discussion.

[Josh Mound]

3 minutes ago, pkane2001 said:

 

Precisely because I don't want to be part of this discussion.

 

But you started the discussion by saying you could point to sites!

[mansr]

14 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

I need to be pointed to at least two dots to connect them.

Here you go:

 .....  ......     .    ....... 
.     . .     .   . .   .       
.       .     .  .   .  .       
 .....  ......  .     . .....   
      . .     . ....... .       
.     . .     . .     . .       
 .....  ......  .     . .       

[The Computer Audiophile]

7 minutes ago, pkane2001 said:

 

I guess you didn't see where I said "I don't want to go down this path"? Are you going to keep insisting that I do something I said I'm not willing to do? 

Absolutely not. I was only trying to help everyone in the hobby by asking you to give us one tiny bit of information.

[Jud]

Head-Fi has rules about a restricted area of the site where"objective" content can be posted, and I believe people have been banned for violating those rules in the opinion of moderators.

 

It took Dr. Scott about 5 minutes to have his content removed and told he wasn't welcome over at Hydrogen Audio if I recall semi-correctly. His sin was telling them that, speaking as a working scientist, they didn't have their facts straight about double blind testing.

 

I think we can agree it's more pleasant here, where folks are actually allowed to say what they think, hopefully without offensive personal attacks. Let's try to keep it that way.

[pkane2001]

7 minutes ago, JoshM said:

 

But you started the discussion by saying you could point to sites!

 

I didn't start this conversation, and I responded to a question directed at me with the following:

 

Quote

I could find you a good number on this site if you want. But I'd rather not go down this path.

 

Maybe I wasn't clear enough in the original message, so I highlighted it for you

 

[Josh Mound]

6 minutes ago, mansr said:

Here you go:

 .....  ......     .    ....... 
.     . .     .   . .   .       
.       .     .  .   .  .       
 .....  ......  .     . .....   
      . .     . ....... .       
.     . .     . .     . .       
 .....  ......  .     . .       

 

That's absolutely untrue. SBAF publishes lots of measurements. Moreover, both AtomicBob and Marv there are more accomplished at measurements than Amir is. The debate is about what measurements matter (and to what extent) as well as what's audible, not whether measurements have any value. 

 

The recent claim by a someone at ASR that he was banned from SBAF for being "objectivist" is flatly untrue. A bunch of members (me included) engaged with him and gave him serious comments and advice about headphones. He was banned for saying racist things.

[Miska]

Hmmh, what is SBAF?

 

I do a lot of measurements and I consider myself pretty objectively driven. But still it takes me just couple of hours of ASR to get fed up. Where 131 dB SINAD is very superior to 128 dB SINAD. But -40 dB dB ultrasonic images are of no issue compared to -140 dB ultrasonic images. Nobody needs to prove why SINAD difference at that level makes great difference, although without breathing between it is stated that nobody can hear difference beyond 60 dB SINAD. But no proof is enough to show that correlated ultrasonic images matter. Especially little thought is given to correlated vs non-correlated errors. Oh well....

 

[One and a half]

1 minute ago, Miska said:

Hmmh, what is SBAF?

 

I do a lot of measurements and I consider myself pretty objectively driven. But still it takes me just couple of hours of ASR to get fed up. Where 131 dB SINAD is very superior to 128 dB SINAD. But -40 dB dB ultrasonic images are of no issue compared to -140 dB ultrasonic images. Nobody needs to prove why SINAD difference at that level makes great difference, although without breathing between it is stated that nobody can hear difference beyond 60 dB SINAD. But no proof is enough to show that correlated ultrasonic images matter. Especially little thought is given to correlated vs non-correlated errors. Oh well....

 

Please google super best audio friends. I would bet the experience lasts less than 10minutes.

[emcdade]

1 hour ago, mansr said:

Here you go:

 .....  ......     .    ....... 
.     . .     .   . .   .       
.       .     .  .   .  .       
 .....  ......  .     . .....   
      . .     . ....... .       
.     . .     . .     . .       
 .....  ......  .     . .       

That's it?

 

It seems like a pretty tame Schiit fan site from clicking around there.  And lots of discussion about headphone and budget gear.  There's even a section for Audio Science.

 

 

[emcdade]

1 hour ago, JoshM said:

 

 

Why can't you specify which forum you're speaking of so that we can debate whether that's the case?

 

By the way, I'll be reviewing the Matrix for Audiophile Style, for those who'd like a subjective review. 😊

Awesome, looking forward to the review!  

[kumakuma]

Quote

    <meta name="description" content="The evolution of the original irreverent and irrelevant and non-authoritative site for headphone measurements, i.e. frequency response graphs, CSD waterfall plots, subjective gear reviews. Too objective for subjectivists; too subjective for objectivists" />

 

Source:

https://www.superbestaudiofriends.org/index.php

 

The highlighted bit makes it sound like this place...

 

 

 

[Miska]

11 minutes ago, kumakuma said:

Source:

https://www.superbestaudiofriends.org/index.php

 

At quick glance, half of the site seems to be about Schiit

 

[kumakuma]

4 minutes ago, Miska said:

 

At quick glance, half of the site seems to be about Schiit

 

 

So it's full of Schitt?

 

Sorry, couldn't help myself...

[Ralf11]

Miska - I hope you really do some TIM measurements.  Not sure if you'll find anything with DACs, but...

 

Be sure to wear period-correct clothing when doing it however.

[emcdade]

3 hours ago, pkane2001 said:

 

I didn't start this conversation, and I responded to a question directed at me with the following:

 

 

Maybe I wasn't clear enough in the original message, so I highlighted it for you

 

Maybe next time don't bring it up if you aren't willing to even type out the name of a website.

[kumakuma]

1 minute ago, emcdade said:

Maybe next time don't bring it up if you aren't willing to even type out the name of a website.

 

Can't we all just put this unpleasantness behind us and be Super Best Audio Friends?

[emcdade]

1 minute ago, kumakuma said:

 

Can't we all just put this unpleasantness behind us and be Super Best Audio Friends?

Lol, agreed.  The thing is that's exactly what i'd tell one of my friends if they make a claim like that, but then wouldn't tell you who or what they're talking about.  

[pkane2001]

3 minutes ago, emcdade said:

Maybe next time don't bring it up if you aren't willing to even type out the name of a website.

Didn’t realize it was such an important point in the conversation that it was worth all this back and forth. Maybe next time you can just respect when someone tells you that they are unwilling to engage in your questioning.

[emcdade]

26 minutes ago, pkane2001 said:

Didn’t realize it was such an important point in the conversation that it was worth all this back and forth. Maybe next time you can just respect when someone tells you that they are unwilling to engage in your questioning.

My girlfriend is super hot guys, seriously.  Too bad you can't meet her because she goes to another school, in Canada.

 

[plissken]

7 hours ago, Miska said:

Hmmh, what is SBAF?

 

I do a lot of measurements and I consider myself pretty objectively driven. But still it takes me just couple of hours of ASR to get fed up. Where 131 dB SINAD is very superior to 128 dB SINAD. But -40 dB dB ultrasonic images are of no issue compared to -140 dB ultrasonic images. Nobody needs to prove why SINAD difference at that level makes great difference, although without breathing between it is stated that nobody can hear difference beyond 60 dB SINAD. But no proof is enough to show that correlated ultrasonic images matter. Especially little thought is given to correlated vs non-correlated errors. Oh well....

 

 

I remember the ASR PS Audio Perfect Wave thread.

 

Honestly Miska you and Amir are both really bright and capable engineers. Amir is able to account for his approaches and even admit when he's been in error.

[bilboda]

SBAF is just fine with me. AtomicBob is an accomplished engineer with decades in the industry. Marv confounds me and then astounds me. There are many others who regularly provide good info.It's generally a fun stable experience that doesn't like to waste time on chatter except in threads where it's all about chatter. The matrix was well received there for subjective reasons. It's rare to see mention of DSD. I am probably not the only one using Miska's software but I rarely see it mentioned. Schiit yes, likely influenced by good cheap gear and mfr participation. Due to it's policy about staying on topic and relevant, it is easy to acquire good information without dealing with superfluous talk about everything under the sun. When I want more info, I come here, when I want a chuckle I go to ASR, albeit with the occasional good observations from measurements (rare), when I'm desperate I go to headfi....and I liked the Matrix (non mqa) better than the Gumby. 

[exdmd]

I would not mind owning a Matrix X-Sabre Pro but not enough to sell my Yggdrasil for. It is a lovely piece of kit. I have preferred and owned DACs designed by Mike Moffat since the Thetas. I spend more time on SBAF than other forums because, well, I agree with Marv most of the time and I appreciate AtomicBob among others and the absence of noise. Troublemakers are banned rather quickly:)

[Foggie]

1 hour ago, bilboda said:

SBAF is just fine with me. AtomicBob is an accomplished engineer with decades in the industry. Marv confounds me and then astounds me. There are many others who regularly provide good info.It's generally a fun stable experience that doesn't like to waste time on chatter except in threads where it's all about chatter. The matrix was well received there for subjective reasons. It's rare to see mention of DSD. I am probably not the only one using Miska's software but I rarely see it mentioned. Schiit yes, likely influenced by good cheap gear and mfr participation. Due to it's policy about staying on topic and relevant, it is easy to acquire good information without dealing with superfluous talk about everything under the sun. When I want more info, I come here, when I want a chuckle I go to ASR, albeit with the occasional good observations from measurements (rare), when I'm desperate I go to headfi....and I liked the Matrix (non mqa) better than the Gumby. 

 

Maybe a bit off topic but to be clear - sbaf is a headphone niche, no?  If so, that presents a completely different set of variables in so far as listening experiences.  The big thread here at AS "massive improve..." or whatever it is, is similar in that many reviews are HP people (if memory serves) and readers really need to understand this as it isn't obvious unless one is familiar with said individuals. 

 

I'm not a HP person in the least - can't stand them and wish this was clearly stated upfront.  This isn't a HP forum for the most part.