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markf31

New house and speaker placement question

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I know these speaker placement questions get asked frequently, and maybe too much so for some, but Im looking to get back into the hobby after I sold my last system when I sold my old house and bought my new one.

 

I am going to be going with a 2 channel system with stand mounted bookshelf speakers but I'm locked into where I'm permitted to have my 2 channel system. The geometry of my room though is giving me fits trying to think about how to best place the speakers and if I will need any room treatments or corrections to help as well. Maybe this is an easy and straight forward answer but knowing ahead of time and getting some opinions will aid in my speaker and stand decision I think.

Here is the layout of my room. Will I have issues if I place my speakers at position A? Or might most speakers probably benefit from moving them out to position B? Is this an case where digital room correction might really benefit me?

 

 

Doc1.jpg

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can I convince you to swap the speakers/Ent. Ctr. with the couch?

 

really, either couch...

 

Generally, be concerned with [1] bass (long wavelengths which can stack up or null out at various places in the room), and

[2] treble (which acts a lot like a light beam)

 

 

you want to keep speakers out of corners (unless they are designed for it - RIP Roy Allison) as that modifies the bass; the worst thing is to put one in a corner and the other not

- keep them a few feet away from walls too

 

for treble, try to get walls (and other reflective surfaces) the same on both sides

 

There are other things after the above to tune them in better - e.g. using mirrors held along the side walls to pick a listening spot

 

and behind your head is an issue also - you want either free space (best) or a highly absorbent "painting" hung on the wall


"The overwhelming majority [of audiophiles] have very little knowledge, if any, about the most basic principles and operating characteristics of audio equipment. They often base their purchasing decisions on hearsay, and the preaching of media sages. Unfortunately, because of commercial considerations, much information is rooted in increasing revenue, not in assisting the audiophile. It seems as if the only requirements for becoming an "authority" in the world of audio is a keyboard."

-- Bruce Rozenblit of Transcendent Sound

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Thanks for the thoughts. The wall the entertainment center is on now is where my cable tv wall plate is located. I would have to run cable cord over to the couch wall if I wanted to flip the layout, and this room has 5 in-ceiling speakers for built in surround sound that are oriented for the current layout.

 

My Hope was with the speakers in position B that the I would eliminate the early reflection of the mids and highs and that I could put some bass absorbers in the corner position to address the base reflections. 

 

But from your comments it seems that corner is going to give me more trouble than what I assumed using position B.

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B is better than A

 

cable TV outlets can be moved, or a WiFi connection from a tiny box to the TV/stereo can be implemented

 

how bad will B be is the real question...  I am sure you'll be able to tolerate it


"The overwhelming majority [of audiophiles] have very little knowledge, if any, about the most basic principles and operating characteristics of audio equipment. They often base their purchasing decisions on hearsay, and the preaching of media sages. Unfortunately, because of commercial considerations, much information is rooted in increasing revenue, not in assisting the audiophile. It seems as if the only requirements for becoming an "authority" in the world of audio is a keyboard."

-- Bruce Rozenblit of Transcendent Sound

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What are the actual dimensions of the room? I see mention of room being open for another 15' to the right but what is the width at that point, what is the total length of the room and what is the width of the area where you are proposing to place the speakers and the wall behind the couch?

 

Do you potential have the entire room as an option or only where you have the pieces drawn in the diagram?

 

I would agree with Ralf11 at first glance about swapping the couch but depending on the answers to the above you may even more options.

 

I would never let a preinstalled wall mount or electrical outlet dictate my placement options. There are many ways to address those issues

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8 hours ago, markf31 said:

Will I have issues if I place my speakers at position A? Or might most speakers probably benefit from moving them out to position B?

 

The best place is determined by the speakers. For small speakers A  may sound better. Is there a reason why you must determine the position now?  You could always place them in A and B to determine where it sounds the best before putting the finishing touch to the room decor or wiring, etc.  

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There are no generally applicable right or wrong answers to your questions. It depends on both the speakers and the room characterstics. To take one example, how far out from the back wall they should be is often determined by the bass characteristics a speaker. Some some speakers with rear facing ports may sound boomy if placed too close to the wall, whereas others of a different design may benefit from the bass reinforcement provided by being closer to it. You have to experiment with speaker placement.


"Relax, it's only hi-fi. There's never been a hi-fi emergency." - Roy Hall

"Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted"- William Bruce Cameron

 

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It is impossible to say if position A is better than B without testing, but most speakers sound better if they stand more freely so my guess is its closer to the B than A position.

 

The first thing I noted in the picture, and it’s very common, is that the listing position is next to the wall. My experience is however that sitting close to the wall always diffuse/compress the sound and make it muddy and the image blurry, the bass less punchy and more one noted etc. The reason for this is all the direct reflections from the back wall. The amount of reflections in dB is almost as high as the direct sound reaching your ear and you don’t want that.

 

What you can do is (1) move the couch away from the back wall every time you listen to 2 channel music and then move it back again if it looks wired. (2) Sit in a chair in front of the couch. (3) Get diffusers (or combining diffusion and absorptions) and place them on the back wall behind you. (4) Get diffusers and place them on the back wall behind you and move the couch away from the back wall every time you listen to 2 channel music, best.

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I appreciate all the replies, thank you.

 

A detail I forgot to include in my OP is that the couches and entertainment center/TV are setup in this fashion because the room has a ceiling mounted 5 speaker surround system oriented in this direction. I suppose I could still flip everything around and simply use a stand alone center channel along with the ceiling surround sound speakers. That might be an option.

 

The WAF (wife acceptance factor) is playing heavily into my decisions here.

 

CJF, I do not have the rest of the room available to me, a corner fireplace, the wife's sewing desk the mud entrance are over on that side of the room. If I had options over there then I would have utilized those options instead of this conundrum I find myself in now.

 

Summit, I'm aware of the back wall influences on the listening position and those are factors I will address regardless. I have some shallow shelving to install behind the couch as well as some artwork to help diffuse those deflections. Moving the couch out from the wall is not really ideal, they dont lend themselves to being easily moved.

thanks again for the comments, I think I just need to decide on speakers and get them in place and go from there.

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I think Ralf 11 has the definitive post on this, he described the issues perfectly.  

 

I have this exact layout in my own new house.  I did flip it around and it made a significant difference.   That little corner will change the right speaker no matter what.  You have edge diffraction, a nearby first reflection point and you are close to corner.  In my case it actually shifted the image and altered the apparent SPL on right vs left.   With fixes, like absorption, it was impossible to replicate the same absorption on the left side without it looking weird.  So even with a fix on the right side the image was always slightly unbalanced and I ended up with left and right at different levels.   Very annoying.

 

Flipping it enabled me to work with a symmetrical set up and helped a lot.  No longer different SPL L vs R , I was able to put the absorption behind both speakers and get nice balance.  It was also easier with placement of the subs, as i could slide them back and forth to figure out the best position.  Get some 12 gauge and use the extra wire to go up and over.  If I really want it to image best, I can pull them out from the wall like you did on position B and then it sounds quite nice.

 

Brad

 

 

     


Brad Lunde

www.LoneMountainAudio.com (High End Consumer Importer to the Trade) and www.TransAudioGroup.com (High End Pro Audio Importer to the Trade)

Brands we import to the US are ATC, Tube Tech, Drawmer, MUTEC, Bettermaker 

Brands from the US we distribute are A Designs, Auratone, Daking, LatchLake and Mojave   

 

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