Audiophile Power Cables

[Kimo]

50 minutes ago, marce said:

So provide some real science behind the differences instead of just sprouting the usual true believer stuff... That would be a change, some real content to a cable thread.

Did you even listen to the video?

 

 

[marce]

24 minutes ago, Blackmorec said:

Because they spend sometimes hours a day listening to music, which is generated using AC current.  And some quite high percentage* notice that the type of power cables used have an impact on the sound quality. its not something that audiophiles want, believe me. I’m pretty certain that every audiophile on the planet would be happier if cables made absolutely no difference, in which case they put their discretionary money to use on things like buying better speakers, amps or music. Its a damned nuisance having to chose and but special cables, but it is what it is and cables do matter, for the long list of reasons given earlier in this thread. 

 

* a percentage large enough to generate a thriving industry of specialist audiophile cable manufacturers. 

So what about those of us who listen to music hours a day and don't give in to exception bias and thus don't notice any difference with power cables.

*anecdotal not empirical

[marce]

1 hour ago, Kimo said:

 

Pretty easy to hear the difference between the first 3,.  Apparently they remain undetectable to some folks who want to prattle on about their cable religious beliefs. 

 

I picture them looking a lot like Ernest Angley and spouting off "you're healed" when they hit the "submit reply" button and post their perfectly drab insights.   

Unlike those that prattle on about mains cable difference and even fuses!!!!! LOL

Provide any bit of science that will back up how mains cables could make a difference, real science not audio cable company science...

[Kimo]

23 minutes ago, sandyk said:

 

 Yet once again,  ably demonstrated by Marce and a few other members is their  utter contempt for all Subjective reports in a Forum that is only financially viable because of the support of it's Hi Fi industry advertisers.  

 

I am not sure  that audible difference easily heard on cheap computer speakers constitutes "subjective" in a hobby built around hearing.

[marce]

27 minutes ago, sandyk said:

 

 Yet once again,  ably demonstrated by Marce and a few other members is their  utter contempt for all Subjective reports in a Forum that is only financially viable because of the support of it's Hi Fi industry advertisers.  

LOL

So because its funded by Hi Fi industry advertisers we have to believe...

[marce]

8 minutes ago, Kimo said:

Did you even listen to the video?

 

 

Yep, not the best way of testing for subtle differences.... Even my wife in the kitchen couldn't hear the differences, which shocked me...😂

[Kimo]

Just now, marce said:

Unlike those that prattle on about mains cable difference and even fuses!!!!! LOL

Provide any bit of science that will back up how mains cables could make a difference, real science not audio cable company science...

 

Your posts are utterly useless, since you are commenting on the audible effect of something you won't even bother to listen to.

 

There is nothing scientific about your approach.  You simply don't add any value.

[marce]

4 minutes ago, Kimo said:

 

I am not sure  that audible difference easily heard on cheap computer speakers constitutes "subjective" in a hobby built around hearing.

Based on replay systems built around electronics and science! 

[Kimo]

Just now, marce said:

Based on replay systems built around electronics and science! 

Okay Thomas Dolby.

[marce]

Just now, Kimo said:

 

Your posts are utterly useless, since you are commenting on the audible effect of something you won't even bother to listen to.

 

There is nothing scientific about your approach.  You simply don't add any value.

Unlike your prattling on...

See you presume, because I am not a believer in all the fake facts that infest out hobby I do not listen!

[marce]

Just now, Kimo said:

Okay Thomas Dolby.

Sorry don't get this one!

[Kimo]

1 minute ago, marce said:

Sorry don't get this one!

 

You need to watch the video again.

 

 

[Blackmorec]

17 minutes ago, marce said:

So what about those of us who listen to music hours a day and don't give in to exception bias and thus don't notice any difference with power cables.

*anecdotal not empirical

Some of us have shytier systems than others I guess, which makes them luckier in one respect that they don’t waste money on cables and unluckier in another , that they’re listening to what others may consider garbage. There is of course an alternative and that is you’ve modified or found a component that is in no way affected by the quality of its AC, it which case good on ya. 

[botrytis]

The video means nothing, really. It is a sighted test therefor flawed. 

 

Double blind does not mean AES has to be involved, it just has to be setup properly. The audio Society of Boston has done quite a few double blind tests. They are not hard to do but the people running the test AND the people involved should not know what is being tested. Another group has to the switching and cannot be seen by either group.

[marce]

21 minutes ago, Blackmorec said:

Some of us have shytier systems than others I guess, which makes them luckier in one respect that they don’t waste money on cables and unluckier in another , that they’re listening to what others may consider garbage. There is of course an alternative and that is you’ve modified or found a component that is in no way affected by the quality of its AC, it which case good on ya. 

Wow, the crappy system reply, next it will be my hearing that is being questioned... Oh woe is me.

[marce]

It seems that it is OK to promote an Audiophile myth, bit not to disagree, if the Chihuahua brigade stop snapping at my ankles because I disagree with a myth and post some science that supports the myth it would be a more interesting discussion.

Ankle protectors on!🤣

[botrytis]

34 minutes ago, Blackmorec said:

Some of us have shytier systems than others I guess, which makes them luckier in one respect that they don’t waste money on cables and unluckier in another , that they’re listening to what others may consider garbage. There is of course an alternative and that is you’ve modified or found a component that is in no way affected by the quality of its AC, it which case good on ya. 

 

It is the elitist attitude of audiophiles that make people say such things. 'Your system isn't resolving enough'. Then it shouldn't matter. Again, people basing the decision that something is garbage based on price.

 

I still say much of this is due to people KNOWING how much cables cost and people telling them that they do make a difference. That is all it is - bias. Our brains do it in spades.

 

I will give an example on this. At an American Wine Society event, I was involved in both sighted and blind tasting of some red wines. In the sighted test, the majority of the people picked out the most expensive as being the best. In the non-sighted test (it was the same wines, BTW) the same people picked the cheapest wine of the list (which was at the bottom of the list in the sighted test). 

 

This is why sighted tests of cables and other things in audio, mean nothing.

[pkane2001]

2 minutes ago, marce said:

Wow, the crappy system reply, next it will be my hearing that is being questioned... Oh woe is me.

 

Curious how it is that a system that allows a power cord (arguably one of the least sensitive components in the overall chain) to affect the perceived sound quality is considered superior to a system that doesn't.

[STC]

I am listening (not watching) to another video of his. They are using different cables/speakers. Can you guess which one sounds better without watching the video?

 

 

 

[Kimo]

1 hour ago, botrytis said:

The video means nothing, really. It is a sighted test therefor flawed. 

 

Double blind does not mean AES has to be involved, it just has to be setup properly. The audio Society of Boston has done quite a few double blind tests. They are not hard to do but the people running the test AND the people involved should not know what is being tested. Another group has to the switching and cannot be seen by either group.

 

Try closing your eyes.  Oh wait, you already have done that...

[botrytis]

5 minutes ago, Kimo said:

 

Try closing your eyes.  Oh wait, you already have done that...

 

Does that really help the discussion? The point being, audiophiles think their ears are 'golden' when most are not. Most only base things on bias. It is the truth. Your statement basically supports what I am saying.

[Blackmorec]

1 hour ago, pkane2001 said:

 

Curious how it is that a system that allows a power cord (arguably one of the least sensitive components in the overall chain) to affect the perceived sound quality is considered superior to a system that doesn't.

Now there’s a good question!!! Really, Genuinely, Sincerely, Why is a system that shows up shortcomings in cables considered good?  They should really be immune to such changes because having a simple cable change affect sound quality cannot be considered a good trait, surely?  And I would agree, no it can’t....because its a royal pain in the arse. I’ve paid good money for XTZ, why should I pay more to extract its full capability?

 

But on reflection,  I can only answer your question one way, and that is to say that all those systems that are genuinely considered to be amongst the very best....not the most expensive necessarily, but the most musical, the most revealing, the most accurate and detailed, the most thrilling, all do it. From the latest super servers and amplifier, down to simple NUCs they are all reported to be cable sensitive So while we’ve learned how to make systems that can sound utterly exceptional, it seems we haven’t yet learned how to make them immune to the effects of their power cables, regardless of how good their power supplies, their isolation from noise etc etc.  So, we can say that very good hi-fi shows up shortcomings in cables, unless of course you think we have a global conspiracy for the benefit of a few cable manufacturers. Moving to those that don’t show up differences; well there’s 2 possible reasons....either they’re special and superior to the ones that do show the differences, or they’re inferior and don’t actually have the capability to show the differences...there are no other alternatives that I can think of. 

So let’s say its the former and the systems are superior. How come no-one, not one person, not a single manufacturer promotes the fact that they’ve managed to engineer a product that it totally independent of mains quality?  Nor has any audio journalist, who between them must have heard thousands of different components, reported even once that changing power cables on a component had absolutely no effect. If anyone is aware of such an article, please post a link. Personally I’m not. So how can I reach any other conclusion than its down to system resolving power? Elitist thinking? Maybe But nowhere have I seen, heard or read about a single component that is immune to main cable changes, other than on Forums. Should we expect that? Well statistically speaking yes. In a large enough population sound quality is going to vary over a normal Gaussian distribution, where the probability density function can be described by 2 values, mean and standard deviation.  So in a large population like a Forum, there are going to be some members who own systems whose SQ is insuffiecient to detect cable differences. 

[Kimo]

Just now, botrytis said:

 

Does that really help the discussion? The point being, audiophiles think their ears are 'golden' when most are not. Most only base things on bias. It is the truth. Your statement basically supports what I am saying.

 

You dismissed the video, based on your biased opinion.  I actually listened.

 

It doesn't take golden ears to hear the differences in the video, at least for the first 3 cables.  After awhile, they do start to sound more alike, but after awhile, you will also grow pretty sick of the same song and the vocalist belting.

 

It is utter nonsense to claim all cables sound alike, no matter the application.  I suppose all tubes, transistors, capacitors, and resistors all sound alike as well?

 

Spending big bucks on cables seems a bit silly, but it doesn't mean that the cables all sound alike.

[botrytis]

1 minute ago, Kimo said:

 

You dismissed the video, based on your biased opinion.  I actually listened.

 

It doesn't take golden ears to hear the differences in the video, at least for the first 3 cables.  After awhile, they do start to sound more alike, but after awhile, you will also grow pretty sick of the same song and the vocalist belting.

 

It is utter nonsense to claim all cables sound alike, no matter the application.  I suppose all tubes, transistors, capacitors, and resistors all sound alike as well?

 

Spending big bucks on cables seems a bit silly, but it doesn't mean that the cables all sound alike.

 

Video based is sighted so it is biased. Also, as others have said, the codec on youtube is like comparing a CD to 128 kpb mp3 vs a CD. It loses sound in translation. 

 

I am not saying there is or isn't differences. What I am saying is 2-fold: 1. Sighted tests are biased period and therefore not useful to determine what sounds better (this includes knowing the prices). 2. listening to youtube videos is ridiculous to base spending on something.

[Kimo]

2 minutes ago, botrytis said:

 

Video based is sighted so it is biased. Also, as others have said, the codec on youtube is like comparing a CD to 128 kpb mp3 vs a CD. It loses sound in translation. 

 

I am not saying there is or isn't differences. What I am saying is 2-fold: 1. Sighted tests are biased period and therefore not useful to determine what sounds better (this includes knowing the prices). 2. listening to youtube videos is ridiculous to base spending on something.

 

Can't argue with any of this, though I question how much the bias really reflects results for some people.  I use Mogami, Apogee, and Belden though out the system, along with the power cord that came with the unit.  Even the cheap pro stuff doesn't necessarily sound identical though.