Axial Posted August 22, 2019 Author Share Posted August 22, 2019 3 hours ago, Ralf11 said: what about poutine? c'est si bon! Poutine will do just fine, but it has to be the real thing, from Kuebec, Kanada. ☺️ Sound Matters Link to comment
Axial Posted August 22, 2019 Author Share Posted August 22, 2019 1 hour ago, lasker98 said: The issue is that a shark would at least take a bite first before spitting it out. This gang of land sharks in here have likely never tried an upgraded cable in their lives. Yet, they're always the first to jump into these threads. Talk about pathetic (and getting a little old to say the least). Exactly. 3 hours ago, mansr said: Theory: Mr Audio Bacon is Sonic the Hedgehog. Are you related to Donald Duck? 2 hours ago, One and a half said: This thread is a lagoon full of sharks circling for the first post from someone who can detect differences between power cables and the water will turn red. That is not quite accurate, unless it is. 2 hours ago, Blake said: The purpose of the OP was obviously to chum the waters and create some drama. That's fine if it entertains people. Whatever floats your boat. Cable fight threads are beyond played out to me- I'll still state my viewpoint but don't care to argue about it. Back in the day though, I used to enjoy a good ol' cable fight. Speaking of which, we should be getting some comments from Sal in 3, 2, 1......... The purpose of the OP is to share educative audiophile studies from an engineer with style (a link from the chain). The purpose of some views is to advance in the knowledge of learning. We're in it for the best views. ...With intelligent style, scientific guides, practical applications. Sound Matters Link to comment
sandyk Posted August 22, 2019 Share Posted August 22, 2019 2 hours ago, One and a half said: That's the issue, the sharks can't hear the difference, then ridicule those that do. The thread then spins out of control into a bitching mess. Unfortunately, that's par for the course in most non OP moderated threads in this forum in the last year or two. Axial 1 How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file. PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020 Link to comment
Axial Posted August 22, 2019 Author Share Posted August 22, 2019 I like that, telling it like it is ^ Sound Matters Link to comment
kelvinwsy Posted August 22, 2019 Share Posted August 22, 2019 In my experience, I find there are differences in Power Cords. But in my opinion, this is mostly due to common mundane issues like 1. The connectors - are they making solid contact to give maximum contact area to transmit current 2. Shielding to prevent EMF/RFI 3. Wire cross section - Sufficient Gauge is in my system around 14 AWG - The fattest PC I use is about 10AWG 4. The metallurgy of the wires, the connectors, Rodium/Paladium/Gold/ etc etc - could be confirmation bias - after you read that Rhodium has this SQ impact and Palladium is some other effect, I tends to go listen for these effects. How real is this? I dunno really know 5. How the weight of the PC has on the IEC receptacle on the device you are powering. Supporting the heavy PC's with a suitable support 1 - 3 iinches from the receptacle - I find the more solid connection makes a difference. 6. How the PC's are laid out at the back of your equipment rack - Especially how they affect the Signal cables. Even XLR cables don't really like to be parallel to a PC. 90deg crossing is ideal but this is difficult to manage. So I apply JSSG 360 shielding and then I link the double shield grounding wire back to an unused Earth jack on my Furutech Power bar. That is my secret sauce. I then hear less and less difference between my Oyaide, my Acrolinks, my Shunyatas, and my PS Audio PC's. My 10awg DIY PC's sound as good at 1/4 price of my designer cables. Happy Listening to all Kelvin Link to comment
Popular Post Archimago Posted August 22, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted August 22, 2019 What's most interesting to me is in the last summary page of that very long article; because this is what the cable Industry is truly about: "Finding that balance in your system is tough – and neverending." Indeed it would be very tough to try so many cables and listen to whatever minute differences might or might not be there. What's important for the cable industry is that people maintain faith that audible differences are possible which this article has meticulously conveyed along with promotion of other audiophile lore (you know, a simple correlation like "higher priced cords generally use higher quality material - which generally results in better resolution, timbre..."). People like simple beliefs like this. So long as a certain percentage of audiophiles will engage in that "neverending" quest to find this "tough" "balance", all's good with the Industry. Where there is the quest for the Holy Grail, there are potential profits to be gathered. While I cannot advocate for such an avocation as I believe it to be folly, it is a free world and I suppose there are worse and more destructive ways to spend one's time and money. I am impressed by Mr. Bacon's passion in what he does nonetheless! 🙂 skikirkwood, Axial, Ralf11 and 2 others 5 Archimago's Musings: A "more objective" take for the Rational Audiophile. Beyond mere fidelity, into immersion and realism. R.I.P. MQA 2014-2023: Hyped product thanks to uneducated, uncritical advocates & captured press. Link to comment
Ralf11 Posted August 22, 2019 Share Posted August 22, 2019 yes, have faith and keep buying$$ Bacon has no protocol to rule out confirmation bias, so we are left with nothing but a rotten mess of poo-tine Link to comment
sandyk Posted August 22, 2019 Share Posted August 22, 2019 9 minutes ago, Ralf11 said: yes, have faith and keep buying$$ Bacon has no protocol to rule out confirmation bias, so we are left with nothing but a rotten mess of poo-tine Neither have you for that matter with all your never ending anti Audiophile tirades ! How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file. PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020 Link to comment
Ralf11 Posted August 22, 2019 Share Posted August 22, 2019 4 minutes ago, sandyk said: Neither have you for that matter with all your never ending anti Audiophile tirades ! well, that is an unusually stupid comment - I've conducted quite a few blind testings you also don't seem to understand what "anti Audiophile" actually means maybe you should go take a nap so Chris C. doesn't have to sanitize pages of another thread because of your bad behavior Link to comment
Popular Post Archimago Posted August 22, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted August 22, 2019 Just had a listen to his comparison video: I think it's obvious even with YouTube's lossy audio, surely one can record audio quality way better than that tinny worse-than-AM-radio sound for an audiophile comparison! Didn't listen to all the cables but jumping around listening to most of them, nothing sounded good in that video and some samples like the "Snake (Oil) River Audio Cottonmouth" had some kind of crackle in it suggesting inconsistent recording technique. Looking at the comments, not seeing many "converts" based on this example. skikirkwood and Axial 2 Archimago's Musings: A "more objective" take for the Rational Audiophile. Beyond mere fidelity, into immersion and realism. R.I.P. MQA 2014-2023: Hyped product thanks to uneducated, uncritical advocates & captured press. Link to comment
sandyk Posted August 22, 2019 Share Posted August 22, 2019 17 minutes ago, Ralf11 said: I've conducted quite a few blind testings Please show us the published results. Your Blind Testing is purely Subjective unless you have them confirmed by your Peers. How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file. PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020 Link to comment
Popular Post kumakuma Posted August 22, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted August 22, 2019 10 minutes ago, sandyk said: Please show us the published results. Your Blind Testing is purely Subjective unless you have them confirmed by your Peers. You are Confused about how Blind Testing Works... as well the rules for Capitalization of words. mansr, sandyk, Ralf11 and 1 other 2 2 Sometimes it's like someone took a knife, baby Edgy and dull and cut a six inch valley Through the middle of my skull Link to comment
sandyk Posted August 22, 2019 Share Posted August 22, 2019 18 minutes ago, Archimago said: Just had a listen to his comparison video: I think it's obvious even with YouTube's lossy audio, surely one can record audio quality way better than that tinny worse-than-AM-radio sound for an audiophile comparison! Didn't listen to all the cables but jumping around listening to most of them, nothing sounded good in that video and some samples like the "Snake (Oil) River Audio Cottonmouth" had some kind of crackle in it suggesting inconsistent recording technique. Looking at the comments, not seeing many "converts" based on this example. 128kbps .aac audio is a complete waste of time trying to demonstrate minute differences in sound quality. Yes, even 128kbps .aac can do way better than in this example. In fact, converting typical 128kbps .aac audio to LPCM often improves YouTube SQ. Even the ever sceptical esldude (Dennis) has confirmed this with a sample from YouTube of " The Beatles-Maxwells Silver Hammer." Care to explain how this is even possible with LOSSY .aac Audio ? How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file. PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020 Link to comment
fas42 Posted August 22, 2019 Share Posted August 22, 2019 5 hours ago, Kimo said: He is a hard worker. There is a link on this page displaying the differences between 15 power cable changes that he made. I would be surprised to learn that anyone found them all to sound alike. https://audiobacon.net/2019/03/22/15-audiophile-power-cables-hear-for-yourself/3/ Started listening to the video, and the difference between the bog standard and the Furutech were a classic example of the area that I work in, when sorting out SQ - the "rough edge" of the former is the typical distortion artifact that so many audio rigs exhibit, that needs to be got under control. This is a noise issue, and the construction of the cable plays a major part in determining the nature and levels of this factor. Link to comment
Blackmorec Posted August 22, 2019 Share Posted August 22, 2019 6 hours ago, kelvinwsy said: In my experience, I find there are differences in Power Cords. But in my opinion, this is mostly due to common mundane issues like 1. The connectors - are they making solid contact to give maximum contact area to transmit current 2. Shielding to prevent EMF/RFI 3. Wire cross section - Sufficient Gauge is in my system around 14 AWG - The fattest PC I use is about 10AWG 4. The metallurgy of the wires, the connectors, Rodium/Paladium/Gold/ etc etc - could be confirmation bias - after you read that Rhodium has this SQ impact and Palladium is some other effect, I tends to go listen for these effects. How real is this? I dunno really know 5. How the weight of the PC has on the IEC receptacle on the device you are powering. Supporting the heavy PC's with a suitable support 1 - 3 iinches from the receptacle - I find the more solid connection makes a difference. 6. How the PC's are laid out at the back of your equipment rack - Especially how they affect the Signal cables. Even XLR cables don't really like to be parallel to a PC. 90deg crossing is ideal but this is difficult to manage. So I apply JSSG 360 shielding and then I link the double shield grounding wire back to an unused Earth jack on my Furutech Power bar. That is my secret sauce. I then hear less and less difference between my Oyaide, my Acrolinks, my Shunyatas, and my PS Audio PC's. My 10awg DIY PC's sound as good at 1/4 price of my designer cables. Happy Listening to all Kelvin HI Kevin, Nice post. I would add to few more influential factors. 1. Cable geometry and ability to reject noise 2. Dielectric materials 3. Fuse material and contacts 4. Cryogenic processing which does seem to affect either metallurgy, junctions or both 5. Chrystal structure and purity of the conductors In the end I believe your list plus mine encompass pretty much every power cable in existence marce 1 Link to comment
kelvinwsy Posted August 22, 2019 Share Posted August 22, 2019 +1 Perfectly on the same page as you..Acrolink high purity copper is great stuff Link to comment
Kimo Posted August 22, 2019 Share Posted August 22, 2019 5 hours ago, fas42 said: Started listening to the video, and the difference between the bog standard and the Furutech were a classic example of the area that I work in, when sorting out SQ - the "rough edge" of the former is the typical distortion artifact that so many audio rigs exhibit, that needs to be got under control. This is a noise issue, and the construction of the cable plays a major part in determining the nature and levels of this factor. Pretty easy to hear the difference between the first 3,. Apparently they remain undetectable to some folks who want to prattle on about their cable religious beliefs. I picture them looking a lot like Ernest Angley and spouting off "you're healed" when they hit the "submit reply" button and post their perfectly drab insights. Link to comment
marce Posted August 22, 2019 Share Posted August 22, 2019 10 hours ago, One and a half said: That's the issue, the sharks can't hear the difference, then ridicule those that do. The thread then spins out of control into a bitching mess. So provide some real science behind the differences instead of just sprouting the usual true believer stuff... That would be a change, some real content to a cable thread. Link to comment
marce Posted August 22, 2019 Share Posted August 22, 2019 8 hours ago, Axial said: Exactly. Are you related to Donald Duck? That is not quite accurate, unless it is. The purpose of the OP is to share educative audiophile studies from an engineer with style (a link from the chain). The purpose of some views is to advance in the knowledge of learning. We're in it for the best views. ...With intelligent style, scientific guides, practical applications. Its anecdotal, that's all.... Link to comment
marce Posted August 22, 2019 Share Posted August 22, 2019 8 hours ago, sandyk said: Unfortunately, that's par for the course in most non OP moderated threads in this forum in the last year or two. kettle calling frying pan black! Link to comment
marce Posted August 22, 2019 Share Posted August 22, 2019 7 hours ago, Ralf11 said: well, that is an unusually stupid comment - I've conducted quite a few blind testings you also don't seem to understand what "anti Audiophile" actually means maybe you should go take a nap so Chris C. doesn't have to sanitize pages of another thread because of your bad behavior Anti audiophile, insult, one who disagrees with SandyK. Link to comment
marce Posted August 22, 2019 Share Posted August 22, 2019 6 hours ago, sandyk said: 128kbps .aac audio is a complete waste of time trying to demonstrate minute differences in sound quality. Yes, even 128kbps .aac can do way better than in this example. In fact, converting typical 128kbps .aac audio to LPCM often improves YouTube SQ. Even the ever sceptical esldude (Dennis) has confirmed this with a sample from YouTube of " The Beatles-Maxwells Silver Hammer." Care to explain how this is even possible with LOSSY .aac Audio ? Are we discussing mains cables or going OT? Link to comment
marce Posted August 22, 2019 Share Posted August 22, 2019 2 hours ago, Blackmorec said: HI Kevin, Nice post. I would add to few more influential factors. 1. Cable geometry and ability to reject noise 2. Dielectric materials 3. Fuse material and contacts 4. Cryogenic processing which does seem to affect either metallurgy, junctions or both 5. Chrystal structure and purity of the conductors In the end I believe your list plus mine encompass pretty much every power cable in existence So how come only audiophiles worry about this stuff, none of which has much effect on a 50/60Hz signal... Link to comment
Blackmorec Posted August 22, 2019 Share Posted August 22, 2019 13 minutes ago, marce said: So how come only audiophiles worry about this stuff, none of which has much effect on a 50/60Hz signal... Because they spend sometimes hours a day listening to music, which is generated using AC current. And some quite high percentage* notice that the type of power cables used have an impact on the sound quality. its not something that audiophiles want, believe me. I’m pretty certain that every audiophile on the planet would be happier if cables made absolutely no difference, in which case they put their discretionary money to use on things like buying better speakers, amps or music. Its a damned nuisance having to chose and but special cables, but it is what it is and cables do matter, for the long list of reasons given earlier in this thread. * a percentage large enough to generate a thriving industry of specialist audiophile cable manufacturers. Summit 1 Link to comment
sandyk Posted August 22, 2019 Share Posted August 22, 2019 8 hours ago, sandyk said: Unfortunately, that's par for the course in most non OP moderated threads in this forum in the last year or two. Yet once again, ably demonstrated by Marce and a few other members is their utter contempt for all Subjective reports in a Forum that is only financially viable because of the support of it's Hi Fi industry advertisers. How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file. PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020 Link to comment
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