Ayre QB-9 Twenty upgrade

[Norman]

Hi Ryan. Thank you for the detailed explanation. Yeah. I can easily understand the dilemma. If there is no real difference between the two sources of power, and if you can eliminate the noise from the transformer laminations, eliminating the transformer makes perfect sense. I really appreciate the transparency in your explanation. Anyone who reads this will understand the decision.

[barrows]

I would suggest, why about it requiring USB power?  All reports are that the upgrade sounds significantly better, I would suggest that one just be happy that Ayre has gone and provided a significant upgrade to a product which is not even offered any more.  It is a rare company which does this.

Using USB power, from a technical standpoint, is a good way to allow for a totally isolated USB input (as I am sure the QB-9/20 is), as it provides a power supply for the USB interface which is entirely isolated from eh rest of the DAC circuitry, without having to add an additional transformer in an already small case.

Don't worry, be happy!

[Norman]

I asked the question because the Twenty upgrade did not work out of the box without identifying the problem and changing my system configuration. Hence, I was looking for confirmation that there had indeed been a change in the design. Others may have the same experience, so Ryan’s contribution here may help them as well.

 

So true. It’s amazing that Ayre saw fit to provide an upgrade to a mature product. Very cool!

[FelipeRolim]

Any way to upgrade in Brazil? I have version 192/24 and would like to buy the "Twenty" version.

[Ryan Berry]

Hey Felipe,

Feel free to send us an email I'm sure we can coordinate something with you.  Our email's listed on the Contact section of Ayre website.

 

Cheers,

 

Ryan

[CG]

Do you fortunate guys who have upgraded your QB-9's have any further comments?  They must be broken in by now.

 

Thanks!

[FelipeRolim]

I forwarded two emails to Ayre, as requested, and so far have received no response.

[desbiss]

2 hours ago, CG said:

Do you fortunate guys who have upgraded your QB-9's have any further comments?  They must be broken in by now.

 

Thanks!

I've upgraded mine, and after a rocky start I am loving it! Mine initially had USB cycling (3 blue bars on display, then standby light and so on... perpetual loop). Apparently there was an issue where the USB receiver in my DAC thought there wasn’t enough voltage. I worked with my dealer & Ayre and they provided a firmware update that resolved the issue. Even before being broken in it clearly bettered mine with the QB-9 DSD upgrade.

 

Only issue now is that mine is NOT (yet) Native DSD compatible. I have worked with Antipodes (my renderer is an EX) and been able to conclude that it is not my EX, so Antipodes has reached out to Ayre. Note: I am able to use DoP but it only goes to half the advertised DSD rate due to the larger bandwidth used with DoP. So only 128 for me right now.

 

Antipodes has reached out to Ayre and I am hopeful that another firmware update from Ayre will get Native DSD enabled, as this was a major selling feature for me.

[Norman]

In response to CG, the sound quality is fantastic. Aural memory is far from perfect, but the upgraded version sounds super clean. Background noise is zero. Instruments and voices sound very natural. If pushed to specifics, I would say that the single most noticeable change is in the soundstaging. To my ears, the soundstage is larger in all dimensions: wider, taller, and deeper than before. For music that was actually recorded in a real space (in contrast to music constructed from parts recorded separately), the players are spread out further on the stage, allowing each one to be localized better in space. I particularly noticed an increase in image height. All said, I’m super-excited about the sound quality of the Twenty upgrade.

 

I was told (in a phone conversation with Ayre) that Ayre is preparing a firmware update for the unit to address an issue whereby the DAC will cycle between standby and play under certain conditions. Perhaps Ryan can comment further.

 

My system at the moment:

Ayre QB-9 Twenty—>CAPS 3 computer with LPS and SOTm USB port—>Sonic Frontiers SFL-1 Signature preamp—>McIntosh MC2000 amp or homebrew PP 2A3 amp or homebrew SE 45 amp or homebrew SE 300B monoblocs or homebrew SE 211 monoblocs—>Avantgarde Duo 3.0

[Norman]

Ha! I just saw desbiss’s post. Yes. I have the same cycling problem but haven’t received the firmware update. Running the DAC with the cover off is my temporary solution. I was expecting the firmware update to appear on the Support—>Firmware page of the Ayre web site, but it wasn’t there as of yesterday. Would love to get that update.

[bsinc]

Mine is 5 weeks + of running.  I think it is a fantastic Dac.  My player doesnt do native DSD so I cant comment.  The one thing i have seen in this time that isnt "quite right " is occasionally the display doesnt turn off after changing sampling rates.  I guess it should be addressed.... but if that's all it does improperly I am not inclined to send it off.

The SQ is very good and the separation/ layering  within  a performance is outstanding.  It didnt do THAT before🙂. 

 Heard it in two different systems with different transports and the QB-9 Twenty clearly showed the differences so I may need to look at my front end. 

[AB835]

Mine came back about 2 weeks ago and has been in use since it arrived, no issues at all. Sunday I connected my QB-9 20 to one of the Balanced inputs of my Kx-5 20 and connected  my  QB-9 DSD to another balanced input. All I had to do id move the usb connector from one to the other to compare between them, everything else in stream is identical. The upgraded QB-9 20 was well worth the upgrade and as others said it is fantastic, I could not be more pleased with the upgrade..

[desbiss]

3 hours ago, Norman said:

Ha! I just saw desbiss’s post. Yes. I have the same cycling problem but haven’t received the firmware update. Running the DAC with the cover off is my temporary solution. I was expecting the firmware update to appear on the Support—>Firmware page of the Ayre web site, but it wasn’t there as of yesterday. Would love to get that update.

I worked with my dealer to troubleshoot, and he installed the update for me last week. I believe the good folks at Ayre were intending to put the update on the site as you noted. Might still be beta...(?)

[Norman]

Yep. I’m sure that they’ll put it online when it’s final. Glad to hear that the version you have has solved the problem.

[desbiss]

48 minutes ago, Norman said:

Yep. I’m sure that they’ll put it online when it’s final. Glad to hear that the version you have has solved the problem.

Yes indeed, the cycling seems resolved. No occurrences since the firmware update. 

 

I’ve been thoroughly enjoying my new DAC, and am looking forward to a Native DSD fix to follow soon. Hopefully it’s an easy one for Ayre to resolve.

[CG]

Thanks everybody!  That was very helpful.

 

With a discontinued product like the QB-9, it's unlikely that the upgrade will ever be reviewed by a professional reviewer.  Can't very well audition it at a dealer, either.

 

Y'know, I think this is the best kind of review anyway.  Everyone here has used a QB-9 for quite some time and is really familiar with its sound.  A professional reviewer might get a few weeks with a product, maybe even while reviewing something else.  They probably don't have the same "feel" for the product as a long term owner.  Plus, you all paid real money for the upgrade.  (Reviewers purchase what they like well after the review.)  If you're happy with the upgrade, you're going to say so.  If you're unhappy, you'd probably say as much and want your old QB-9 back.  

 

So, I'm convinced.

 

Now, I just have to negotiate with my, ahh, business manager...

[jma2]

Hi all,

My upgraded QB-9 Twenty arrived this morning and I also bumped into the USB-power issue/feature.

 

My setup includes a Squeezebox Touch connected via an Uptone USB Regen to the QB-9.

 

Direct connection with the Squeezebox Touch doesn't work and it seems the USB Regen also doesn't pass clean 5V output when there is no 5V input available, because it also doesn't work via the Regen USB.

Direct connection with the laptop works fine, but that's not what I want in the end.

I suppose I will need some kind of USB power injector solution to convert the powerless USB signal coming from the Squeezebox Touch to include 5V power. If anyone has a good reference to such device feel free to let me know.

Another solution would be to force the Regen to output the clean 5V even though no input 5V is available.

 

Any further ideas?

 

Kind regards,

Jan

 

[desbiss]

1 hour ago, jma2 said:

Hi all,

My upgraded QB-9 Twenty arrived this morning and I also bumped into the USB-power issue/feature.

 

My setup includes a Squeezebox Touch connected via an Uptone USB Regen to the QB-9.

 

Direct connection with the Squeezebox Touch doesn't work and it seems the USB Regen also doesn't pass clean 5V output when there is no 5V input available, because it also doesn't work via the Regen USB.

Direct connection with the laptop works fine, but that's not what I want in the end.

I suppose I will need some kind of USB power injector solution to convert the powerless USB signal coming from the Squeezebox Touch to include 5V power. If anyone has a good reference to such device feel free to let me know.

Another solution would be to force the Regen to output the clean 5V even though no input 5V is available.

 

Any further ideas?

 

Kind regards,

Jan

 

Jan - I suggest you contact your dealer or Ayre. I worked with my dealer and the good folks at Ayre for this, and Ayre was able to provide a firmware update that my dealer installed. This has resolved the cycling fully thus far. 
 

The eventual QB-9 USB cycling issue I refer to is apparent by 3 blue bars on the display, then the standby light, then back to the 3 blue bars. This repeats perpetually. No audio playback whatsoever.

 

For context, I also tested mine with my MacBook Pro instead of my Antipodes EX. Although I initially had playback with the Mac, my QB-9 Twenty eventually defaulted to the aforementioned cycling. I’m not sure how long this took as I had started testing in the morning before leaving for work, and came home to the cycling issue.

 

Regardless, since the firmware update I have had zero issue with my EX (which initially had no playback with the QB-9 whatsoever prior to the firmware update). It seems the update may be in beta as it is apparently not yet up on Ayre’s site for download. Native DSD is not functional yet with my QB-9 either, so I am hopeful the delay in the firmware being posted may just be in that aspect still being worked on by Ayre. 

[jma2]

Thank you for your reaction desbiss. I have indeed also this loop you describe. And every time the green standby LED appears there is an "Err" message displayed (no specific code) in a blink.

 

I contacted the Ayre importer in The Netherlands to see how to proceed. I also send a message to Uptone to verify if the Regen USB does or does not output clean 5V when no 5V available on the USB input.

 

I initially had music playback when I hooked up my laptop (Lenovo X220 running Ubuntu 19.10) directly but now playback is also interrupted repeatedly about every 20 seconds.

 

[desbiss]

23 minutes ago, jma2 said:

Thank you for your reaction desbiss. I have indeed also this loop you describe. And every time the green standby LED appears there is an "Err" message displayed (no specific code) in a blink.

 

I contacted the Ayre importer in The Netherlands to see how to proceed. I also send a message to Uptone to verify if the Regen USB does or does not output clean 5V when no 5V available on the USB input.

 

I initially had music playback when I hooked up my laptop (Lenovo X220 running Ubuntu 19.10) directly but now playback is also interrupted repeatedly about every 20 seconds.

 

Hi Jan,

 

I completed forgot about the “ERR” aspect, I had that as part of the cycle as well...

 

“- - -“ then “ERR” then the standby light, with all three repeating perpetually.

 

It is fixable, with the firmware update. Which you or your dealer will be able to install once it is available. :)
 

You may wish to contact Ayre. Perhaps @Ryan Berry can chime in?

[jma2]

One further information:

I checked on the Squeezebox Touch in the Advanced Settings where you can select the Digital Output.

I see that the Ayre QB-9 Twenty is appearing in the list of interfaces for a few seconds after which it disappears again. I'm not entirely sure this continuous appear/disappear cycle corresponds with the Err Loop.

 

For now I'm in touch with the importer who performed the upgrade and who has tested it with a Mac Book Pro/Pure Music 3 combi without problems (I have no Apple HW to play with though). Of course if Ayre reacts here (or via PM) it will be much appreciated.

 

Jan

 

[desbiss]

13 minutes ago, jma2 said:

One further information:

I checked on the Squeezebox Touch in the Advanced Settings where you can select the Digital Output.

I see that the Ayre QB-9 Twenty is appearing in the list of interfaces for a few seconds after which it disappears again. I'm not entirely sure this continuous appear/disappear cycle corresponds with the Err Loop.

 

For now I'm in touch with the importer who performed the upgrade and who has tested it with a Mac Book Pro/Pure Music 3 combi without problems (I have no Apple HW to play with though). Of course if Ayre reacts here (or via PM) it will be much appreciated.

 

Jan

 

Your scenario certainly appears to be the same issue I had. 

I also had the same appear / disappear of my QB-9 in Roon. When the QB-9 display showed three bars I could see the QB-9 in Roon, and as the ERR and standby light appeared, the QB-9 was not visible/available in Roon.

 

If that is the case, you should be able to do the firmware upgrade yourself when it is available for download from Ayre. My dealer indicated it was very straight forward. I guess the self install aspect remains up to the folks at Ayre.

 

It was worth the wait. I’m hopeful for the Native DSD capability soon.

[AB835]

jma2

I am 99% sure both the REGEN and ISO REGEN generate its own clean 5v for usb output.

[Norman]

Hello all. My temporary solution to the cycling issue was to remove the cover from the DAC. This prevents heat buildup, which seems to trigger the problem. In the case of my unit, it would work for a while when cool, but will eventually fail in the way that everyone is reporting, including the brief err message. Removing the cover may help until the firmware fix becomes broadly available.

[jma2]

36 minutes ago, desbiss said:

Your scenario certainly appears to be the same issue I had. 

I also had the same appear / disappear of my QB-9 in Roon. When the QB-9 display showed three bars I could see the QB-9 in Roon, and as the ERR and standby light appeared, the QB-9 was not visible/available in Roon.

 

If that is the case, you should be able to do the firmware upgrade yourself when it is available for download from Ayre. My dealer indicated it was very straight forward. I guess the self install aspect remains up to the folks at Ayre.

 

It was worth the wait. I’m hopeful for the Native DSD capability soon.

 

It would be nice if I could do the firmware update myself (if that's what it boils down to). Otherwise the sending back and forth may take quite some time (again).

 

If the Native DSD comes in a future firmware update I hope we won't have to send in the DAC again.